2008.09.05 19:00 - Mindfulness, Being-in-Hiding, and Emotions

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    Adelene Dawner was guardian but was delayed. Adams Rubble is reposnsible for the comments

    I got to the pavilion first and was content to sit by myself for about ten minutes enjoying the 10 pm (for me) daylight until Doug appeared

    Adams Rubble: Hello Doug :)
    doug Sosa: sorry to be late again, house guests with children.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: That's always nice :)
    doug Sosa: well, the little monsters... but i love them.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    doug Sosa: you are not rezzed. do you see that too?
    Adams Rubble: Did I understand that you were having trouble concentrating this week with all the political stuff?
    doug Sosa: you are just all grey, but with clothes, looking like a classical sculpture.
    doug Sosa: Yes, correct on the politics.
    Adams Rubble: Hmmm. I am Ok from my view point. Let's see if I can fix
    doug Sosa: But not trouble concentrating. the intersting thing is, what happens to the political ambience in the 9 sec?
    doug Sosa: fixed! wow.
    Adams Rubble: Please tell me more :)

    A tired Steve then joined us and Doug adjusts his view so that the buildings are not so prominant

    Adams Rubble: Hi Steve :)
    doug Sosa: well, as you know i've ben experimenting wiht doing the 9 sec wherever i am, and not stopping what i am doing, just going with it. and this week i've noticed that there ia kind of heaviness in the air for many i know
    doug Sosa: whoare dissapointed in the whole politicalscene..
    Adams Rubble: That's an understatement :)
    doug Sosa: and so i noticed that for me that ambience stayed in the 9sec, but with perhaps moredetachment, or humor.
    Adams Rubble: That's great. No agony then about this week's events :)
    doug Sosa: hi steve, was typing away and didn't see you arrive.
    stevenaia Michinaga: no problem, I was jsut listening
    doug Sosa: "just" :)
    doug Sosa: we seem more surounded by buildings here, almost urban.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, thanks, a long day.. sometimes I just lisen
    stevenaia Michinaga: listen
    Adams Rubble: Yes, Doug, I try to sit facing away from them
    doug Sosa: lison up, works fr me.
    stevenaia Michinaga: ...:)
    doug Sosa: and are there less trees?
    stevenaia Michinaga: if I was more alert I would be typing worse
    Adams Rubble: I don't think so Doug but maybe I didn't notice
    doug Sosa: let me look..
    doug Sosa: looking this way looks about the same, but the others!
    stevenaia Michinaga: what are you looking at?
    Adams Rubble: Once the autologging is ready we can more to the new pavilion
    doug Sosa: well, no straight a head of me, pretty green, the other views seem more crowded and less trees.
    doug Sosa: no=now
    doug Sosa: i need to go, houseguests with children...
    doug Sosa: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye doug
    Adams Rubble: OK, have a good evening Doug. bye :)

    Doug left to tend to the children and other guests. Steve and I enjoy some small talk and the log

    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy
    stevenaia Michinaga: love your outfit
    Adams Rubble: Thank you :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I never dressed so good
    Adams Rubble: Actually neither did I :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    Adams Rubble: It's been a long week and the red is keeping me awake :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: red?
    Adams Rubble: my outfit
    stevenaia Michinaga: if it works, I thought Adelene was the Friday Guardian
    Adams Rubble: Yes, so did I. She is in SL
    stevenaia Michinaga: are you keeping the log?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: I guess I am
    stevenaia Michinaga: just curious
    Adams Rubble: We ought to try to get something into it :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: the log?
    Adams Rubble: yes

    Steve "wakes up" and poses a question about mindfulness

    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm slowing comming more alert and talkative
    Adams Rubble: Oh, great :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I had a question that crossed my mind the other night
    Adams Rubble: yes?
    stevenaia Michinaga: about being present, mindful and wondering when aren't people mindful? seems like a constant state
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be missing something
    stevenaia Michinaga: when I think about the moment it's just another perspective for me on the moment
    Adams Rubble: Do you mean you always feel mindful?
    stevenaia Michinaga: if I am, how would I really know?
    stevenaia Michinaga: if I'm not... well, some thing unless I eventually find out
    Adams Rubble: Hmm. Mindful for me would include being able to see my thoughts
    stevenaia Michinaga: I mean I won't know until I am
    stevenaia Michinaga: see your thought?
    stevenaia Michinaga: as opposed to what
    Adams Rubble: as opposed to not seeing them. But then the thoughts probably would interfere with what I am seeing
    Adams Rubble: Hmm. chat lag

    We are briefly interrupted by avatars running through. One had stopped and appeared as if to join us. They ran through numerous times later

    Adams Rubble: Hello Tate
    stevenaia Michinaga: I don't see Tate
    Adams Rubble: I know that I am not always mindful; Tate just pased through
    stevenaia Michinaga: must you think about it to be mindful?
    Adams Rubble: That doesn't help you
    Adams Rubble: Hmm. I think so Steve
    Adams Rubble: I have only been at this for 3 months
    Adams Rubble: Actually today is my 3 month anniversary :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it's quite new to me, yet familiar
    stevenaia Michinaga: that's like a year in Sl time
    Adams Rubble: I think my thoughts usually dominate unless I watch them or concentrate on seeing

    Sky then stopped in and we continue to kick around the mindfulness question

    Adams Rubble: I think for me it getting easier to control them though
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sky :)
    Adams Rubble: Good to see you :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Sky
    Sky Szimmer: hi. good to see you guys too.
    stevenaia Michinaga: we were just discussing perpectives on being present
    Sky Szimmer: yes. by all means, con't
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was wondering if I have a perspective.. wonder what is the difference between being mindful and knowing you are being mindful
    Adams Rubble: That is a slightly different way of putting it Steve
    Sky Szimmer: humm. i know when i am not being mindful on hindsight
    Adams Rubble: Yes, me too
    stevenaia Michinaga: becaused you missed something?
    Sky Szimmer: i wonder if one can be mindful without knowing you are mindful
    stevenaia Michinaga: that was an earlier question I had
    stevenaia Michinaga: must you know it to be it, like seeing being
    Sky Szimmer: yes. i realized that. it is interesting question. i don't know.
    Sky Szimmer: i guess in a way, being is always present whether we know it or not
    Sky Szimmer: but by knowing it, maybe the quality is different?
    Adams Rubble: Yes, we connect to a power beyond us
    Sky Szimmer: i wonder about that notion of connecting.

    Adelene arrived and checked to see that we were logging

    Adams Rubble: Hello Adelene :)
    Adelene Dawner: Hi. Sorry I'm so late. Personal issues. >.< Did someone take a log?
    stevenaia Michinaga: points to adams
    Adams Rubble: Yes, I have it Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: Thanks, Adams.
    Sky Szimmer: hey Adelene.
    Adams Rubble: I can send it to you or post it, whichever you prefer, Adelene :)
    Adelene Dawner: It might be better if you post it, if you don't mind.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, long day
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Adelene Dawner: 'night, Steve
    Sky Szimmer: bye. Steve
    Adams Rubble: bye Steve :)

    Steve leaves and Sky tells us about her present experience and then asks Adelene about emotions

    Sky Szimmer: i have been feeling very very lost these days. no being present at all.
    Adams Rubble: Is it from stress?
    Sky Szimmer: yes. I try to practice the latest suggestion apapb
    Adams Rubble: Have you tried other exercises too?
    Sky Szimmer: hey. it's getting late for me, got to run soon. it is nice to see you guys.
    Adams Rubble: Ok, sorry I wasn;t more help
    Sky Szimmer: yes. but i realized that the I just won't step out of the way.
    Sky Szimmer: the self really insist on itself
    Adams Rubble: I had some royal battles with my "self"
    Adams Rubble: It was usually something I had to find
    Sky Szimmer: yes. it is funny because i can see what it'd be like just Be, but then the self just can't let go.
    Adams Rubble: The exercise of watching my thoughts worked best at those times
    Adelene Dawner: "Appreciate the presence of appearance as a presentation by Being" .... the self appears... it's a presentation by Being. ^.^
    Sky Szimmer: Hey Adelene, just wondering if you get caught up in emotions too
    Adelene Dawner laughs. "Oh, yes."
    Sky Szimmer: hopefully that is not too personal but I am asking sincerely
    Sky Szimmer: ah.. emtoadf
    Adelene Dawner: The idea that autistics don't experience emotions isn't grounded in fact at all. We tend to experience them a bit oddly - sometimes delayed, and often more or less intense than a normal person would experience - but we certainly have 'em.
    Adelene Dawner: In my case, my standard emotional experience is very 'quiet' compared to what most people seem to experience - my emotions are very easy to ignore, and in fact I have to actually pay attention to notice them at all most of the time. I do experience very intense emotions though, when a situation calls for it.

    Sky disappeared while her avatar was busily typing. I note that Adelene seems to have made a disnction between emotions that are relevant and those that just sometimes crop up and seemingly interfere with what we may be doing

    Adelene Dawner hmms. "I wonder where Sky was going with that question?"
    Adams Rubble wonders too
    Adams Rubble: She seems to have crashed
    Adelene Dawner: mm.
    Adams Rubble: I find your last sentence very interesting. I often feel emotion when a situation does not call for it. Do you feel that too?
    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "I was just pondering bringing up a very much related point."
    Adelene Dawner: I'm a bit hesitant to talk at too much length about this, since I'm not sure yet that my interpretations are accurate, but it's pretty obvious that my relationship to my emotions - how I deal with them - is even more unusual than how they present themselves.
    Adelene Dawner: It seems to me that most people go through life judging their emotions, or maybe judging themselves for having the emotions that they do... something like that, anyway. I don't... at least not in the way that most people do, anyway.
    Adams Rubble: Hmm. To a degree yes
    Adelene Dawner: Like... if a situation comes up, and I feel, say, angry... I'm not going to sit there and say to myself 'I shouldn't feel angry, I should feel happy or sad or guilty or whatever". Feeling-angry *is*. It's information. Emotions are your body's way of talking to you, kind of... and preconcieved notions about how you 'should' feel in particular situations get in the way of that communication.
    Adams Rubble: Yes
    Adams Rubble: Once in a while emotions can just bubble up from tiredness or stess though
    Adelene Dawner: Of course, the corolary to that is that emotions are *only* a line of communication, too - you can't let them rule you.
    Adams Rubble: Yes, exactly

    I press the issue of inapprpriate emotions

    Adams Rubble is thinking emotions can come from too much "self" too, i.e. feeling sorry for oneself
    Adelene Dawner: So if I'm stressed, and I get angry because I'm stressed... that's real anger, but I know that it's transient, so I don't need to do anything about it, just let it be. If the stressor is something that happens often, though, I should do something about it - and the anger is a useful sign of that stressor being a problem.
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adelene Dawner: Why is 'feeling sory for yourself' a problem?
    Adelene Dawner: *sorry
    Adams Rubble: It is a draining state
    Adams Rubble: Usually means that one is thinking from ones "self"
    Adelene Dawner: I'm rather lost, but my general tendency to look at the emotion in question and ask why I'm feeling it and what it's there to communicate seems like it'd still be useful.
    Adams Rubble: Well, it would tell that the "self" needs a pat on the head and told that everything will be alright :)
    Adelene Dawner: That's one possibility, yes.
    Adelene Dawner: (I donno about you, but superficial reasurances like that don't work for me - anything that's a big enough deal to attract my attention generally requires an actual solution.)
    Adams Rubble: Well, the actual solution is better :)
    Adelene Dawner: :)

    Finally, my tired mind just gives out and I go off to catch some sleep

    Adams Rubble: This is a very intersting conversation and I would like to continue but I am falling asleep :)
    Adams Rubble: Please excuse me. I have enjoyed talking to you. bye :)
    Adelene Dawner: 'night :)
    Adelene Dawner: Thanks again for taking care of the log.
    Adams Rubble: np. bfn :)

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