Page last modified 10:51, 9 Apr 2010 by wol

*Wol Euler was guardian for this session. The comments are hers. [Updated: later in the day, Umbriel gave me a link to a half-hour-long podcast related to our discussion, called Not good enough, which I highly recommend.]*

Wol Euler: hello Umbriel

Umbriel Levenque: Good morning Wol. How are you?

Umbriel Levenque: Metta

Wol Euler: metta indeed.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Wol Euler: I am well, thanks; thinking to make a short bathroom break before the session begins. BRB.

Umbriel Levenque: Sure

Faenik: could be

Umbriel Levenque: Metta

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Mornin'

Umbriel Levenque: Nice to see you again Corvi. How are you?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Glad of 9 seconds.

Umbriel Levenque: You are doing 9 secs more these days Corvi?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: some...a little.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: have been for about a month.

Umbriel Levenque listens intently

Corvuscorva Nightfire: just whenever I think to do it.

Umbriel Levenque nods

Umbriel Levenque: Have you noticed any effects of the exercise in your daily life?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yes.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: It makes work easier...makes it easier to be useful to people.

Wol Euler: back

Umbriel Levenque: wb Wol

Wol Euler: mornin' corvi.

Umbriel Levenque: Sounds great Corvi

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Mornin' Wol.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: wb

Wol Euler looks at her watch curiously.

Umbriel Levenque: Yes Wol?

Wol Euler: Corvi is on US time, this is middle of hte night for her.

Umbriel Levenque nods

Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles ruefully...woke up at 4am. But I am glad to be here.

Wol Euler smiles. I'm always glad to see you, even at 4 am.

Umbriel Levenque smiles. Same here

Wol Euler reads back to see what she missed.

Faenik: ah :)

Wol Euler: do you find the Nines exercise also making a difference to how you see yourself, Corvi?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yes and no...I think I am better able to LOOK at myself...but the point of view hasn't actually changed.

Faenik loves wells!

Umbriel Levenque: Being able to look at oneself better is a good thing whether it leads to changes in point of view or not

Corvuscorva Nightfire: It's allowed...some space where i can be safe to look.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Not alot, but just a little.

Wol Euler: ah, that sounds very good.

Wol Euler: a positive change.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Wol Euler: since you speak of "seeing youreslf", have you tried the Seeing exercises?

Wol Euler: You Seeing, Being Seeing.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: no...

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I haven't tried any exercises..I'm still working on breathing and checking in.

Umbriel Levenque nods

Wol Euler smiles.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Tell me about that one.

Wol Euler: well, it is similar to the 9 seconds in that it is undirected.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Corvi loves wells.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles and looks at Faenik.

Faenik giggles

A new variation: WS (Warthog Seeing)

Wol Euler: You Seeing is just that: you looks at the world, much as usual but without analysis or judgement. Just seeing what is.

Wol Euler chuckles belatedly.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Wol Euler: Being Seeing is then stepping back from yourself, so that you are in the picture of what can be seen. What does Being see?

Umbriel Levenque nods

Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmm..

Wol Euler: again without analysis or judgement

Wol Euler: just what _is_

Umbriel Levenque: Observing...

Wol Euler: that's the warthog version of YSBS, Pema could express it wiht a great deal more poetry.

Umbriel Levenque: He often talks about 'self stepping aside'

Wol Euler nods

Umbriel Levenque: For me, YSBS came gradually after 9 sec

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I love warthogs.

Wol Euler: very apt, actually, I often find myself blocking my own way.

Umbriel Levenque listens

Wol Euler nods to Umbriel. Actually, for me ti was the other way around. YSBS relaxed me to the point that I could begin with the Nines.

Umbriel Levenque: ah... :-)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: It sounds sort of like what I DO when I'm doing the nines...but I am not able to do the Being seeing part.

Umbriel Levenque: (It was easy for me to do 9 sec first because of doing regular meditation)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm very happy with just....Seeing.

Umbriel Levenque nods

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: Corvi, it will probably come in its own time.

Wol Euler: and if not, that is fine too :-)

Umbriel Levenque nods

Umbriel Levenque quotes Wol "Let Being be"

Wol Euler: no need to make this into another "should"

Wol Euler: ha, yes.

Umbriel Levenque nods

"Should" raises its ugly head, and we beat it with sticks.

Wol Euler: (actually, avoiding "should" in speech, especially talking to yourself, is a really good exercise too.)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmhmm.

Umbriel Levenque nods. A slippery fish... 'should'

Wol Euler: phone brb

Umbriel Levenque: Sure

Corvuscorva Nightfire: what happens for me...is that should becomes a pointer...talking about where I am being silly.

Umbriel Levenque: Please give us an example Corvi

Faenik: why not?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: If I say to myself..I should do the nines right now...then I know I am beating myself up for not doing it..

Corvuscorva Nightfire: rather than enjoying the process.

Umbriel Levenque nods.

Wol Euler sneaks back in quietly and listens.

Faenik: why not?

Umbriel Levenque: For that example, I suppose that you have a fixed goal of some sort doing 9 sec? Or possibly how much you'd like to do any so on...

Umbriel Levenque: and so on* ... um typo

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm trying not to have any expectations around it.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Umbriel Levenque: Hence no 'should' for doing 9 sec

Faenik: ah :)

Wol Euler: no expectations is good, just do it as and when the desire occurs.

Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Wol Euler: I've noticed that "should" addressed to myself usually means "you screwed up somewhere" or "you're not good enough"

Umbriel Levenque welcomes his friend "you're not good enough" these days

Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmm...well said.

Wol Euler: ah :)

Faenik: why not?

Umbriel Levenque: Well... used to argue with him but now a gentle talk :-)

Wol Euler: probably much better, anger is not a good guide

Umbriel Levenque nods

Umbriel Levenque: Well it could be but not when talking to such a friend... need to be more alert :P

Wol Euler: "tough love"?

Umbriel Levenque nods

Umbriel Levenque: A balancing act really...

Umbriel Levenque: (Need to listen to all sides of the discussion)

Wol Euler: like an internal peer review, perhaps.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Umbriel Levenque usually sets up a round table for such an occassion

Wol Euler grins.

Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.

Umbriel Levenque: I tried to 'step aside' from self and see all sides equally. Helps me to see better...

Corvuscorva Nightfire: My inner peers are a bit...cruel.

Umbriel Levenque: try*...

Umbriel Levenque: They can be yes

Wol Euler nods.

Faenik loves wells!

Wol Euler: I've been thinking about Umbriel's friend. That's a point of view that I hadn't considered, I realize.

Umbriel Levenque: Some of them have mellowed out over the years though :-)

Umbriel Levenque listens

Wol Euler: I think of hte voice of "should" as an opponent, almost an enemy. In many cases, not always.

Wol Euler: Someone who speaks to put me down, keep me in my place.

Umbriel Levenque: ah... not so... it's me, my friend... fighting against myself... a bit tiring

Wol Euler: But that isn't always true, perhaps not even in the majority of cases.

Wol Euler: viewing "should" as hostile was a breakthrough at first, many years ago, because it enabled me to overrule that voice

Wol Euler: but it has become anohter unexamined habit of mind. It's time I looked at that again.

Umbriel Levenque: :D

Umbriel Levenque: My 'inner peers' more effective in helping me when I don't brush them aside...

Wol Euler: you trust yours, then.

Umbriel Levenque: They are all concerned really... good intentions however much they often get it wrong at times

Umbriel Levenque nods. Yes I trust their friendship

Wol Euler: like clumsy children.

Umbriel Levenque nods

Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.

Wol Euler smiles. A nice image, I'll think about htat.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Umbriel Levenque imagines his peers sitting around the table with the lollipop Moon gave him

Wol Euler: heheheh

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Umbriel Levenque: Possibly they are all doing 9 sec too!

Wol Euler: lol

Umbriel Levenque: :-)

Umbriel Levenque: Good to talk to you both again. Wish you a good day.

Umbriel Levenque: Metta

Wol Euler: bye umbriel, take care.

Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye!

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Enjoy your day.

Wol Euler: well, we are close to the hour. Shall we stop and go to my beach? have you seen it lately?

Corvuscorva Nightfire shakes her head..."nope"

Wol Euler: then I declare this session officially ended!

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