2009.01.09 01:00 - The most gossipy PaB chat ever

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    Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session, her first of 2009. It was a long, chatty, friendly conversation which touched on PaB business for perhaps 3.7 seconds.

    I arrived in a hurry, having leapt out of bed just minutes before, and found the Playgoda deserted. Seizing the moment, I went to the kitchen to get coffee and a sandwich. By the time I returned, a crowd had gathered.

    Crusty Goldshark: hi :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
    Fefonz Quan: Good morning everyone :)
    Wol Euler: good morning everyone!
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
    Wol Euler: thank you! I had a little bit of trouble getting out of bed today, coffee is still brewing.
    Fefonz Quan: mmm, smells good :)
    Crusty Goldshark: I am constantly connecting to 'in-world chat' but getting no sound?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: probabl (a) nobody is talking, or (b) the server isn't answering
    Crusty Goldshark: coffee used to be considered medicinal
    Wol Euler: like alcohol, it is a drug.
    Fefonz Quan: hence the drugstore
    Crusty Goldshark: How do I turn it off?
    Wol Euler: edit menu/preferences/"voice chat" tab
    Crusty Goldshark: well oxygen is a drug - I can't do without it . . :)
    Crusty Goldshark: thanks wol
    Wol Euler: yw
    Crusty Goldshark: yw?
    Crusty Goldshark: your welcome - got it
    Fefonz Quan: talking about technical stuff - how can i control the "group tag" above my name?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Click 'Communicate' button on the bottom of your screen
    Gaya Ethaniel: That brings up a chat window then click 'Contact' tab
    Gaya Ethaniel: Then click 'Group' tab, choose the group tag you want to display
    Gaya Ethaniel: Then click 'Activate'
    Fefonz Quan: yep :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh you've doen it already :)
    Crusty Goldshark: I was in a nother virtual world yesterday - running through green space - offering everyone a bunch of flowers I had found . . .
    Gaya Ethaniel was looking at how to do it rather than Fefonz... :)
    Fefonz Quan: well i followed your orders here, Wol, just got to it
    Fefonz Quan: before you typed the last one
    Wol Euler: eh?
    Crusty Goldshark: Sadly I do not thing that is exactly how most people play 'grand theft auto' - ah well - their loss ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Crusty Goldshark: :)
    Wol Euler: um that was Gaya, actually.
    Fefonz Quan: Gaya -sorry...
    Gaya Ethaniel: np at all :)
    Wol Euler: we do look alike, it confuses many people.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Fefonz Quan: yes, the hair color...
    Fefonz Quan: :)


    Genetics and heredity in SL and mythology. 

    Gaya Ethaniel: Wol is my SL mother after all :)
    Wol Euler: it's true :)
    Fefonz Quan: well, SL genetic in action :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: as in the greek myths, heredity is optional
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is it?
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, a woman can have snakes or horses for children
    Wol Euler: with the right (divine) father
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... cool
    Fefonz Quan: doesn't that means only that some of the characteristics are defined by the father?
    Fefonz Quan: mean*
    Wol Euler: well, yes, I suppose that is true. His divine genes being of course dominant over hers.
    Gaya Ethaniel: So... women in those cases are just carriers?
    Wol Euler: it's both a very romantic and an utterly pragmatic way of seeing hte world
    Fefonz Quan: only on the outside, Wol, they still got their innner characteristic from her ;-)
    Wol Euler: and totally sexist shit of course.
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Wol Euler: true
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah that's alright then
    Fefonz Quan: (WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT :-))
    Wol Euler: oh yes, women were not _totally_ useless. Just insignificant
    Wol Euler: women, slaves and idiots: one category
    Crusty Goldshark: would you be willing to give birth to a horse?
    Fefonz Quan: well, some of them set 1000 ships to the sea
    Wol Euler: I don't recall any of the gods ever asking the opinion of a woman they impregnated
    Wol Euler: but no, I wouldn't.
    Gaya Ethaniel shakes her head... me neither
    Crusty Goldshark: Well if you can get impregnated by a god, giving birth to his her progeny should be no problem
    Gaya Ethaniel: Obviously those myths were written by men
    Wol Euler: oh yes.
    Crusty Goldshark: or you might die
    Fefonz Quan: still the greek pantheon is full of godesses
    Gaya Ethaniel: Obviously built by men too
    Gaya Ethaniel: [SL is full of female AVs]
    Fefonz Quan: i wonder how many of them are RL females...
    Wol Euler: one of their philosophers stated that women have fewer teeth than men. Although he was married to the same woman for thirty years, it apparently never occured to him to ask her to open her mouth and count her teeth.
    Fefonz Quan: {}


    Gender in SL and RL. 

    Gaya Ethaniel: I heard that 40% of female AVs are men in RL
    Fefonz Quan: she might find it insulting :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: true, fefonz. And I strongly suspect that many lions are RL human too :)
    Fefonz Quan: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fefonz Quan: are 40% of male AV s RL females too?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure
    Wol Euler: I know a few RL women who have male avs, but I think it's not that high a percentage
    Crusty Goldshark: Are you a genderist?
    Gaya Ethaniel: mmhmm like myself [Umbriel]
    Fefonz Quan: that's interesting, this asymettry
    Crusty Goldshark: Or a speciest?
    Wol Euler: I asked one why she went male, her reply was "it's wonderfully quiet, no jackasses trying to pick you up all the time"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes but I do get chatted up sometimes until I made an old black male AV which scares some people
    Crusty Goldshark: LOL seems a worthwhile tactic - do lions get picked up?
    Fefonz Quan: i didnt get the Umbriel thing
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh
    Fefonz Quan: by lionesses
    Wol Euler: surely, fefonz
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry Fefonz thought I told you
    Fefonz Quan: well, secrets everywere ;-)
    Wol Euler: interesting avs get chatted up, but interestingly. Not just "hey I fuck you?"
    Gaya Ethaniel: I told some guardians who didn't even answer back so kind of stopped bringing Umbriel much at PaB
    Wol Euler: which gets pretty dull after a while, you know?
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Wol Euler: I miss Umbriel actually ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: aaww...
    Fefonz Quan: at least they don't pretend and fool you around...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Straight to the point :) so I can tp away
    Gaya Ethaniel: I get chatted up as an old woman too... it's a bit weird
    Fefonz Quan: tp?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Teleport
    Fefonz Quan: ah, great response for one-linres :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: oh yes, RL needs TP - and the mute button!
    Fefonz Quan: when will they do it in RL?
    Wol Euler <3 the mute button
    Crusty Goldshark: good plan Fefonz
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Fefonz you could make one
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fefonz Quan: could i?
    Gaya Ethaniel: You're a scienist
    Fefonz Quan: it's a nice startup
    Wol Euler: perhaps; why not you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :) startup
    Gaya Ethaniel: me? no... stick to low-tech :)
    Crusty Goldshark: How about some post it stickies with the words 'mute' on them and just stick them on an annoying person?


    My first semi-trivial and only tangentally relevant quote of the year. 

    Wol Euler sings softly "I like beakers, you like beakers, let's be sciiiiiiientists"
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fefonz Quan: i heard from my dad that in his military service one commendar did it to a soldier
    Fefonz Quan: that talked too much
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh that's not nice
    Fefonz Quan: yes, abusing is one of the things they do there
    Fefonz Quan: the legend says this soldier is a known politician now
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... it's been easing in Korean military service but I still hear horror stories...
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh :)
    Fefonz Quan: and considering muting, in that film with Peter Selers, there is the remote control issue
    Fefonz Quan: ("being there")
    Wol Euler: ah, right, well remembered.
    Gaya Ethaniel likes that film
    Wol Euler: phone brb
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Fefonz Quan: phone rl too
    Fefonz Quan: (and it's not Wol :))
    Gaya Ethaniel: :) 


    Heheheh. I would totally have done this had I (a) thought of it, and (b) had his phone number. Fael joins us. 

    Fael Illyar: Hello Everyone :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Fael :)
    Crusty Goldshark: hi fael
    Gaya Ethaniel: Are you back now or still travelling?
    Fael Illyar: Back home now, finally.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah, how was it? Did you have good time?
    Fael Illyar: Yes, pretty good, even if a bit over half the time was spent having a flu.
    Crusty Goldshark: did you have ginger tea?
    Gaya Ethaniel: good [shame about flu]
    Crusty Goldshark: or curry?
    Fael Illyar: Nice outfit Wol :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wol's on phone
    Wol Euler: back, reading
    Fael Illyar: I tried to have ginger tea but unfortunately, couldn't locate any ginger from where I was at the time. Same with curry.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
    Wol Euler: happy new year, Fael!
    Wol Euler: and ty :)
    Fael Illyar: had to settle with just tea :
    Crusty Goldshark: There is somewhere in the world without curry - this is real impoverishment
    Crusty Goldshark: tea is good
    Wol Euler: my thoughts exactly.
    Fael Illyar smiles 'Yes.'


    The conversation turns to fashion.

    Fael Illyar: Oh, Gaya has a new look :)
    Wol Euler grins. Isn't it great?
    Crusty Goldshark: It is believed that tea allows people to live in close proximity because of its boosting the immune system qualities
    Fael Illyar: Yes, not your usual AV :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fefonz Quan: back here
    Crusty Goldshark: wb
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
    Wol Euler: wb fefonz
    Fael Illyar: wb Fefonz :)
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Fael, nice, outfit, genderfit etc.
    Wol Euler: "genderfit"?
    Fefonz Quan: (just talked about it here ten minutes ago)
    Fael Illyar blinks 'genderfit?'
    Fefonz Quan: RL vs. SL AVs.
    Fefonz Quan: (genderwise)
    Wol Euler: yes, fefonz I was going to ask about htat. You said earlier "[1:26] Fefonz Quan: at least they don't pretend and fool you around..."
    Wol Euler: could you expand on that?
    Fael Illyar: but thank you Fefonz :)
    Fefonz Quan: i meant that when someone addressed you in that short one line that i won't quote again,
    Fefonz Quan: you know right away what they want and can respond


    Crusty departs. 

    Crusty Goldshark: Havt to go bye guys 
    Fael Illyar: See you later Crusty :)
    Wol Euler: bye crusty
    Crusty Goldshark: gals
    Fefonz Quan: accordingly
    Crusty Goldshark: oops :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: See you :)
    Crusty Goldshark: :)
    Wol Euler: oh, right, I was applying that to the wrong previous statement.
    Fefonz Quan: bye crusty
    Wol Euler: jumping conversations.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It happens :)
    Fefonz Quan: glad we made that clear :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Fefonz Quan: and great wings too Fael :)
    Fael Illyar: part of the outfit :)
    Fael Illyar: can't take credit for these, unfortunately
    Wol Euler: and a great outfit it is too. I like the feathery jewelry
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fael Illyar: ah, that's separate thing :)
    Fael Illyar: but still, from the same shop
    Fefonz Quan: can't mean you didn't make it yourself?
    Fefonz Quan: means*
    Fael Illyar: Yes
    Wol Euler thinks: B@R?
    Fael Illyar: you got it :)
    Fefonz Quan: well, you made the choice
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar: true :)
    Wol Euler: we should take you shopping some day, fefonz, pep up your look a little :)
    Wol Euler: (hope you aren't offended)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fefonz Quan: sure shoud, i invested very little tme on the appearance here
    Fefonz Quan: (not the one we observe on PaB though :))
    Fefonz Quan: np at all, Wol
    Wol Euler: SL as serious tool, not for mere beauty-play?
    Fefonz Quan: and little time to wonder around the other stuff for now.
    Fefonz Quan: maybe when my vacation is over i'll get back to it
    Fael Illyar: So far, I know of only two ways in SL to keep random people from picking you up. Either looks absolutely stunning or reasonable but very ordinary (In RL terms, in SL terms that's quite not ordinary)
    Wol Euler smiles and nods. We were talking about getting picked up earlier on.
    Wol Euler: [1:26] Gaya Ethaniel: I get chatted up as an old woman too... it's a bit weird
    Gaya Ethaniel takes notes
    Fael Illyar: I realized some time ago why I get next to no-one picking me up. They look at me, want to but don't dare.
    Gaya Ethaniel: A friend called this look 'Hot Grandma' :)
    Wol Euler: ha!
    Fael Illyar: hehe :)
    Fefonz Quan: lo
    Fefonz Quan: l
    Fael Illyar: it definitely is a bit of hot grandmaish :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)


    The log's title is unleashed upon our eager ears, and the topic changes to religion via coincidences.

    Fefonz Quan: is it going to be recorded as the most gossipy PaB chat ever ;-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: mmm, there have been a few contenders for htat title.
    Fefonz Quan: good :)
    Wol Euler: many of them on my watch, oddly enough. I am certain it's just a coincidence
    Fael Illyar: your watch?
    Wol Euler: when I was GoC
    Fefonz Quan: we're certain too, wol :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fael Illyar: coincidence? does that exist?
    Wol Euler: "perhaps all coincidence is a form of religious experience. Or vice versa"
    Wol Euler: which reminds me that someone wanted to discuss that. Was it you, Fefonz?
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Fefonz Quan: discuss what, wol?
    Wol Euler: the quote. I've used it here before.
    Fefonz Quan: i don't recall it, but that doesn't prove anything :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Wol Euler: that too might be just a coincidence
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps :)
    Fael Illyar: coincidence is a nice term, you can say it about almost anything ;
    Fefonz Quan: and does it feel like religious experience ?
    Fael Illyar ponders what's wrong with her ')'-key.
    Wol Euler: if you imagine that God intervenes in your life, sure.
    Wol Euler: perhaps she is reaching in and tweaking your neurons to rearrange your memory?
    Wol Euler: saving that one for a more auspicious occasion
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Fefonz Quan: no, girls don't do that :)
    Wol Euler snurks
    Fefonz Quan: (tweaking)
    Fael Illyar: ah, more subscribers to the "God is female" line of thinking?
    Wol Euler: it makes as much sense as any other gender ...
    Fefonz Quan: my old bible teacher used to say that it can't be, because a female would make things much better :)
    Wol Euler: http://wondermark.com/252/
    Fael Illyar: ... I wonder just what your old bible teacher expects females capable of :)
    Fefonz Quan: well she was one
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: @ the cartoon*
    Fael Illyar: Well, that definitely makes it interesting statement :)
    Fael Illyar: Wol, perfect cartoon to paste in at the moment :)
    Fefonz Quan: lol (the cartoon)
    Wol Euler chuckles.
    Wol Euler: apropos of Fefonz' "girls don't do that" :-)


    Gaya leaves us, and more links are viewed.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Time's up for me. Enjoy your day all :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Gaya :)
    Wol Euler: ah, too slow.
    Fael Illyar: always in a hurry to rush away :)
    Fefonz Quan: http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1803422
    Wol Euler: http://xkcd.com/528/
    Fefonz Quan: concerning the previous issue, it takes a while, but it's hilarious)
    Wol Euler: ty, I'll have a look.
    Fael Illyar: ok, that video was ... umm... strange.
    Fael Illyar found it more strange than funny
    Fefonz Quan: well, it was not so tastefull, i agree...
    Fael Illyar: well, I suppose it kind of gives an idea of what some women go through to seem perfect.
    Fefonz Quan: thta's true, and that's without mentioning
    Fael Illyar: or well... what they would go through if they could benefit from it
    Wol Euler: strange...
    Fefonz Quan: how they don't eat in order to meet unreal standards
    Fefonz Quan: so following our gods conversation before, women are not treated so well even in our days
    Wol Euler: truth.
    Fael Illyar: no, not quite so well.
    Fefonz Quan: so maybe the gods as presenting human architypes are not that far off
    Fael Illyar: in cultures with multiple gods, that's very likely.
    Fefonz Quan: yes, we were talking greek gods here before
    Wol Euler: and the busy lives they lead...
    Fael Illyar: especially since the different gods all have different "specialities"
    Fael Illyar: like goddess of love, god of war and such.
    Fael Illyar: interesting, can't remember more at the moment.
    Fefonz Quan: god of sun, god of sea, etc.
    Wol Euler thinks of the pantheon of gods in the Discworld. Annoia, goddess of things that get stuck in drawers.
    Fefonz Quan: goddess of hunting
    Fael Illyar: aah, god of war and goddess of love were lovers.
    Fael Illyar: makes sense in a way
    Fefonz Quan: i need one for the lost single socks
    Wol Euler: I'm sure there is one...
    Fefonz Quan: only one, yeah!
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Fefonz Quan: i need the other1
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Fefonz Quan: infact even in the bible (old testimony) god have a lot of human characteristics
    Fefonz Quan: (it's time someone will come with a short form of the last word)
    Wol Euler: true, I can relate to the OT god much better than the NT.
    Wol Euler: the one who walks in his garden in the cool of the evening, and enjoys a meal with his friends
    Fefonz Quan: well, NT is quite out of my knowledge)
    Fefonz Quan: with friends like that...
    Fael Illyar: Yes, OT has quite different feel from NT
    Wol Euler: god is almost missing from the NT, because Jesus took the stage.
    Fefonz Quan: well, he had some meals too :)
    Fael Illyar: Jesus took a different approach. Speaking of God as something separate.
    Wol Euler: true; an a much better sense of humour than many of his followers
    Fael Illyar: (although, if you read carefully, you can see he doesn't see God as actually separate)
    Fefonz Quan: and in the OT god is separated in many senses
    Wol Euler: but not mediated. One can pray to him directly; but Christians are supposed to pray to Jesus rather than to God (as I understad it)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, in OT, it's god doing stuff. In NT, it's humans doing stuff and talking about God.
    Fael Illyar: ah, god(s?) and humans doing stuff.


    God's attributes, and the origin of the word Avatar. 

    Fefonz Quan: i thought Jesus is a manifestation of GOd
    Fael Illyar: Avatar of God?
    Wol Euler: heh
    Fefonz Quan: sure
    Wol Euler: well, aren't we all?
    Fefonz Quan: that is the source of the word, isn't it?
    Fael Illyar: yes
    Fael Illyar: Divine manifestation
    Fefonz Quan: (Avatar)
    Fael Illyar: but bible does say that man was created in the image of God.
    Fael Illyar: that would fit quite well with Avatar idea.
    Fefonz Quan: yes, but more in a metaphorical sense,
    Fefonz Quan: more "being conscious" as god, not in the physical sense
    Fael Illyar: God has a physical sense?
    Fefonz Quan: image has commonly
    Wol Euler: if he wants to have it, yes :) he is allegedly omnipotent
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Wol Euler: but not _neessarily_ incarnate in one body, in contrast to the Indian gods which were very much physical beings
    Fael Illyar: but think of it, how many incarnations would you need to have all of God?
    Wol Euler: perhaps 99 billion, one for each of his names.
    Fael Illyar wonders if that'd be enough.
    Wol Euler waits to see who else read Arthur C Clarke :)
    Fefonz Quan: me :)
    Fael Illyar: I've read a lot but that particular reference escapes me :/
    Wol Euler: wasn't that a great story?
    Fefonz Quan: it was, what was the end of it?
    Wol Euler: ah! a computer is created to establish all the nine billion (not 99) names of god. The program runs for years, maybe decades, churning them out.
    Wol Euler: as the last name trickles out, the team look up at the night sky, "where silently, without fuss, the stars were one by one going out."
    Fefonz Quan: right!
    Wol Euler smiles
    Fefonz Quan: i think the idea of the names of god is a kabalistic one
    Wol Euler: nearly forty years later, that still sends chills my spine to remember it.
    Fefonz Quan: it reminds of another story of Asimov, The Big question i think
    Fael Illyar: I think the "mistake" there is to assume there's a finite count to the names.
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-...names_of_Allah
    Wol Euler: I was conflating two things, the Clarke story nd the 99 most beautiful names of Allah
    Wol Euler: if "name" means "attribute" then they should be endless, yes.
    Fefonz Quan: Shpinoza, someone? :)
    Wol Euler: probably. he was a clever one
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i am very fond of him
    Fefonz Quan: in the asimov story, the multicomputer is asked over and over again through the years
    Fael Illyar: http://www.bakers-place.co.uk/b5sherdelquotes.html I find these to be quite nice too :)
    Fefonz Quan: "what is the meaning of it all" or a similar question
    Fefonz Quan: and it always says "i don't have sufficient data"
    Wol Euler: mmhmm :)
    Fefonz Quan: and as the human race and technology evolves, the multi-computer evolves too
    Fefonz Quan: and still it has no answer, till the last of the human race asks him that, near the end of the universe
    Fefonz Quan: and when he's gone, the computer get more and more data till
    Fefonz Quan: could you guess the final line of the story?
    Fael Illyar: I've read it but can't recall, unfortunately
    Wol Euler: "42"
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Fefonz Quan: and the multi-vac said "let there be light"
    Wol Euler: ah.
    Wol Euler: Or as Learned Hand said, "Life is made up of a series of judgments on insufficient data, and if we waited to run down all our doubts, it would flow past us."
    Wol Euler: fael, great quotes. thanks for that :)
    Fefonz Quan: who is Learned Hand?
    Wol Euler: oh, an American judge and worldly philosopher of the previous century (I love saying that)
    Wol Euler: one of the last American lawyers who knew more than just law.
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_Hand
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Learned_Hand
    Fefonz Quan: yes, nice quotes, Fael
    Fefonz Quan: so it's good you had the opportunity to say it here, Wol :)
    Fefonz Quan: i expected him to be an indian by the name :)
    Wol Euler: actually I always thought that he was a native American :)
    Wol Euler: I had made up a whole mythology of how he rose on the strength of his intellect and honour, and was quite disappointed to discover the truth
    Fefonz Quan: yes, it's a nice world where your mythology is true
    Wol Euler: having the right grandparents usually helps.
    Wol Euler: but noon approaches and I must away.
    Wol Euler: it's been a grand conversation, thank you both.
    Fefonz Quan: have a great day, Wol, and thank you
    Wol Euler: ty, enjoy the day.
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