2009.02.02 07:00 - Comparing God/Being, Meditation/Prayer

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    Becka Finesmith was the Gaurdian. The comments are hers.

    We had a (semi) new face with us today. We hadn't met so we got aquainted.

    Becka Finesmith: Hello samuel
    Samuel Okelly: hi becka :)
    Becka Finesmith: How are you?
    Samuel Okelly: im good thanks becks :) hows things with you?
    Becka Finesmith: very good. I am in the UK, Snow is falling and we are all stuck at home :-)
    Becka Finesmith: Have you been heere before?
    Samuel Okelly: once or twice beck
    PaB Listener Master: Recording has started!
    Samuel Okelly: im in ireland and we have missed the snow so far
    Samuel Okelly: it is not as bad as in england thanks god
    Becka Finesmith: lucky you. I'm not a snow lover really. SOme people are really happy about it
    Becka Finesmith: Have you been to PaB before?
    Samuel Okelly: yeah ... once or twice
    Samuel Okelly: what about you?
    Becka Finesmith: Yes. I am the Guardian for this session
    Samuel Okelly: ahh i see
    Becka Finesmith: You are happy for your name ot be included in the log?
    Samuel Okelly: sure
    Becka Finesmith: Cool. So have you been doing the practice?
    Samuel Okelly: which practice is that?
    Becka Finesmith: PaB
    Samuel Okelly: not really sure that "play" is the best descriptive way of expressing "being"
    Becka Finesmith: interesting. My take is that we aren't describing being as play but playing at being Being (in the terminology of PaB)
    Becka Finesmith: Have you tried the 9 second practice? Do you know how it works?
    Samuel Okelly: no, wat is that?
    Samuel Okelly: btw i was going to add that for me "play" suggests a state that we can return to after we have finished our personal constructed envrirnent
    Samuel Okelly: finished with... (that should read )
    Becka Finesmith: OK. The 9 second practice is literally taking 9 seconds break every 15 mins
    Becka Finesmith: it is called a 1% time tax
    Samuel Okelly: k
    Becka Finesmith: You stop, and see what happens in your head
    Becka Finesmith: What happens in mine frequently is I get angry at the interruption
    Becka Finesmith: :-(
    Samuel Okelly: i believe there are serious questions to a buddhist view of meditation that requires us to empty our minds though and it seems to me that this is what is being alluded to here?
    Becka Finesmith: As far as your second statement is concerned, I think "play" probably means the same thing here
    Becka Finesmith: in this context
    Samuel Okelly: maybe
    Samuel Okelly: it seems that would be merely sematics
    Samuel Okelly: semantics
    Becka Finesmith: indeed
    Samuel Okelly: however a more serious question i think ould be to ask if it is possible to truly "empty" our thoughts from our minds as some would suggest ?
    Becka Finesmith: So rather then devoting large chunks of time to meditation (which people seem to have trouble doing), 9 seconds seems an easier figure to manage
    Becka Finesmith: I guess it depends on your level of practice
    Becka Finesmith: I know I can do it for very short times
    Becka Finesmith: but once I am in that state, thinking about keeping your mind clear intervenes
    Becka Finesmith: like a vicious circle
    Samuel Okelly: alleging and alluding to an idea of a level of practice infers that it IS possible
    Becka Finesmith: exactly
    Becka Finesmith: do you meditate in more traditional ways?
    Samuel Okelly: i pray
    Becka Finesmith: ok. what does this do for you?
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Corvi

    Then Corvi Joined us and the conversation turned to comparisms of practice between different faith/spiritual doctrines.

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Becka
    Becka Finesmith: I thought I was going to be here on my own :-(
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Easier to log that, eh?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Becka Finesmith: lol - Yes - Very good point
    Becka Finesmith: Someone was here earlier but I think I scared them away
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: a newbie?
    Becka Finesmith: He said he had been a couple of times before
    Becka Finesmith: So how have things been going for you?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: very well. How about for you?
    Becka Finesmith: Yes. Good. I had an opertion just over a week ago and I've been recovering since
    Becka Finesmith: operation
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: !!! I'm glad to hear you're recovering!
    Becka Finesmith: which is why I missed last weeks session :-(
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Becka Finesmith: I just fell asleep!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ha! well good.
    Becka Finesmith: lost track of time
    Becka Finesmith: I haven't been sleeping that well at night which is my excuse
    Becka Finesmith: So what exciting goings on have I missed?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...that's a good one.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmm.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Adams is going to have a talk about his exhibit on the 4th.
    Becka Finesmith: Oh cool. What exhibit is this?
    Becka Finesmith: Will that be at Kira?
    Becka Finesmith: Hello Samuel
    Becka Finesmith: Welcome back
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes, Becka, at Kira. Hello, Samuel, I'm Corvi.
    Samuel Okelly: tx beck! i crashed :(
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I've seen your words on the log.
    Samuel Okelly: hi cor :)
    Samuel Okelly: you've seen MY words? :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm...the sessions are logged.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and the words are put on a wiki..you've gotten the warning and the card, surely?
    Samuel Okelly: oh sure but ive never met someone who reads them until now :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I read all the logs...so I've seen your words.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Becka Finesmith: Yes Corvi - I mentioned it earlier at least
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Becka Finesmith: Does that mean you will be careful about what you say ;-)
    Samuel Okelly: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
    Becka Finesmith: So Samuel, you told me your "practice" was praying. What does this do for you?
    Samuel Okelly: i didnt define it as "practice" as im sure the logs will support ;-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hahahha!
    Becka Finesmith: lol
    Samuel Okelly: but yes, i see no problem with being able to focus your mind on a particular issue as in prayer
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Samuel Okelly: i remain unconvinced that it is possible for us to "free our minds"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods..I don't think it is...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: just..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I get a little closer when i do the 9 seconds...see something new.
    Becka Finesmith: Perhaps it is not freeing as in a blanking of all thought but allowing us to focus more fully
    Becka Finesmith: Like prayer as you say
    Samuel Okelly: I believe there is merit to be gained from spending time in an attempt to organise and prioritise our thinking
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmm.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmmm
    Becka Finesmith: Yes. I remember a famous physicist asking "Don't you have time to think"?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's interesting..because it's not at all what i do in the 9 seconds.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: quite the opposite...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I stop thinking for just a second...or slow down a bit, anyway.
    Becka Finesmith: Do you think that is the main difference between prayer and meditation?
    Samuel Okelly: As a person with a theistic belief, my “prayer” is not restricted to merely contemplative actions but is understood to expressed equally in deed too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: isn't prayer an attempt to open one's self to *****
    Becka Finesmith: but aren't opening ourselves to our own **** on PaB?
    Samuel Okelly: ????
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: well, by **** I mean what you might call God...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: by what we're doing at PaB..I've no idea what it is.
    Becka Finesmith: I assumed you did **** to save you listing all possible Gods.
    Becka Finesmith: So, In prayer, you are asking for something right?
    Samuel Okelly: no
    Samuel Okelly: well not necassarily
    Becka Finesmith: So what are you doing?
    Samuel Okelly: prayer can take many forms
    Samuel Okelly: the purpose of prayer is varied
    Becka Finesmith: But you have a dialog?
    Samuel Okelly: oh yes
    Becka Finesmith: With God?
    Samuel Okelly: in a christian monetheistic view it is definately a converstaion
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: is it? hmm.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks back to her days of prayer...it's been a looong time.
    Samuel Okelly: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it seems that sometimes for me..it was just a...well...more like a hug.
    Becka Finesmith: Definition : a dialog with God as a petition or in adoration or contrition or thanksgiving
    Samuel Okelly: as a child prayer may simply be requests but like any mature developed adult relationship communication can be 9and often is) much more than this
    Becka Finesmith: Perhaps I never develop my prayer ability beyond the child :-(
    Samuel Okelly: it is certainly not uncommon to hear that view expressed
    Becka Finesmith: So it is right to say that you see God as a mature developed adult?
    Becka Finesmith: not just a being of underterminable nature?
    Samuel Okelly: my view of God is in keeping with the Catholic view of a transcendental being, "the uncaused cause" as it were
    Becka Finesmith: Prime mover so to speak
    Samuel Okelly nods
    Becka Finesmith: Perhaps that is Being too then
    Samuel Okelly: i believe that honest introspection shows us that "the person" is more than the totality of their biology
    Becka Finesmith: Yes. I think that's what is believed here
    Becka Finesmith: raching outside of our biology
    Becka Finesmith: raching = Reaching
    Samuel Okelly: it is primarily an interest in ethics wich brought me here
    Samuel Okelly: i am interested to learn and gain an understanding of how non-theistic belief systems explain their ethics
    Becka Finesmith: And is your experience here living up to expectations?
    Becka Finesmith: From what you have said, I think the explanations are very similiar
    Samuel Okelly: sadly i have not been able to get here as often as i would like :(
    Becka Finesmith: There is something (God/Being) beyond the ego, which we try and communicate with
    Becka Finesmith: We do that via Prayer/Meditation
    Becka Finesmith: We have a dialogue which involves many levels of interaction and faith that there is something more than our biology
    Becka Finesmith: It almost sounds the same does't it?
    Samuel Okelly: sure
    Samuel Okelly: i guess my questions are directed to more towards those who hold an existentialist type of view
    Becka Finesmith nods
    Becka Finesmith: sadly, I have to leave now :-(
    Becka Finesmith: I have to pick up my Daughter
    Becka Finesmith: Thanks you for talking :-)
    Samuel Okelly: nice chatting with you becka :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Becka!
    Becka Finesmith: And nice to meet and chat with you too Samel. We should carry on the conversation another time
    Becka Finesmith: Bye Corvi.
    Samuel Okelly: sure :) i look forward to that :)

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