2009.02.05 07:00 - Speaking Plainly

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    This ended up being a conversation about intentionality in communications.  I had just closed out a strange set of emails with someone and had been reflecting on communicating effectively.  Every now and then I mull it over ... ha ha, stop and drop... let it go .... - CH


    Susi Alcott: Hello Cal
    PaB Listener Master: Recording has started!
    Caledonia Heron: hi Susi :)
    Susi Alcott: I am yes
    Caledonia Heron: Are you there? :)
    Susi Alcott: hi Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Cal, Susi!
    Caledonia Heron: hi Corvi :)
    Caledonia Heron: how are you both today?
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm well, how are you?
    Caledonia Heron: good :)
    Susi Alcott: how are you Cal ?
    Caledonia Heron: I still don't know what that symbol means Susi, like a bow?
    Susi Alcott: oh
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_ = to put your hands togethere; fingers up
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: like in india, with a bow?
    Susi Alcott: when ever you do that you give your x-tra energies to free nautre
    Susi Alcott: for anybody to use
    Susi Alcott: no matter if you are buddhist or not
    Caledonia Heron: ok, getting it ... I was guessing somewhere in that neighborhood but wasn't sure ....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I like that idea..thanks for explaining it, Susi.
    Susi Alcott: smiles



    Susi Alcott: it was one morning that people who was gathered here were all so strongly within love that I needed to keep my hands that way for a long time
    Caledonia Heron: smiling now :)
    Susi Alcott: feel need to do that in RL also now
    Caledonia Heron: really remarkable that a group discussion can generate that level of response :)
    Caledonia Heron: :)
    Susi Alcott: so in a way I'm 'afk' for a while
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Susi Alcott: ...was not so much discussion that morning either ...



    Caledonia Heron: would either of you like to share about your pab activities lately?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I don't have anything to share today.
    Susi Alcott: I sadly have not been able to take part as much as I would've like to
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: How about you, Cal?
    Caledonia Heron: hmmm, what I can share is perhaps tangential to pab



    Caledonia Heron: we all meet here to discuss our experiences, to create a shared vocabulary and an experiential library of sorts
    Caledonia Heron: many (many) times, it's about communicating those things in a way that the people you're with get your intent, get where you're coming from which is in the best case an open honest place
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Caledonia Heron: I am trying to communicate with someone and a group of someones (not pab) atm and really trying to openly and honestly problem solve
    Caledonia Heron: there is little shared ground of being, it is a varied and dispersed group with highly different motivations
    Caledonia Heron: I have been reflecting on my effectiveness as a communicator
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you have?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what have you found?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: as you reflected?
    Caledonia Heron: some people get it, some people don't, some people I'm not sure want to get what anyone has to share or contribute
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. so..you are balancing what you mean to say with what people are interested in recieving.
    Caledonia Heron: no, I am saying what I think is true for the situation
    Caledonia Heron: I'm not sure that it is being received as such or respected as an open communication
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, thoughtfully.



    Susi Alcott: open communication is to receive and send
    Susi Alcott: normally people can be only either at the moment
    Susi Alcott: if person comes to meeting with much need to share
    Susi Alcott: one sends and cannot receive
    Susi Alcott: to some people it may be sometimes even impossible to 'change the direction
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but wait..am I understanding that you think you are being misunderstood, Cal?
    Susi Alcott: from sender to be the receiver
    Susi Alcott: so I also understood
    Caledonia Heron: understood Susi on the "change direction" comment
    Caledonia Heron: perhaps misunderstood Corvi
    Susi Alcott: as there are such people too, that do not recieve much ever
    Caledonia Heron: perhaps no space to understand
    Susi Alcott: hmm



    Susi Alcott: do you take that people in that group have understood your intentions the right way
    Caledonia Heron: agreed, some people don't "receive" much communication
    Caledonia Heron: some have Susi, some I don't know, one vocally does not
    Susi Alcott: mostly those people who can only send, are very troubeld
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and how have you worked with that person, Cal?
    Caledonia Heron: in trying to reach someone on a human level, I have not succeeded in this case
    Susi Alcott: for that person's fears
    Caledonia Heron: an outlying professional relationship Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, considering.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: do you mind talking about how you've reached out to that person?
    Caledonia Heron: it's a storm in a teacup however it's my little teacup and I have been considering it :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...of course..if nothing else it's a way to learn something important to you!
    Caledonia Heron: exactly Corvi, a way to learn and as such I mention it to you as we are interested in aspects of being... which includes how we "be" with each other in my estimation :)



    Susi Alcott: can the storm in your teacup be caused by this person's fears ?
    Caledonia Heron: lol, plus it's a slow day
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Caledonia Heron: perhaps Susi, I can only speculate :)
    Susi Alcott: could you describe that storm with few more words ?
    Caledonia Heron: I think the details are better left alone, I would prefer to not make a soap opera but rather mention it to perhaps open a discouse on intentionality in communications



    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Cal..I have someone at work whom I'm not able to communicate to, as well..someone who has misunderstood me due to her fears..so..I feel I could learns something here.
    Caledonia Heron: yes, we bump up to those people from time to time ... unfortunate if it is a daily basis Corvi
    Susi Alcott: I meant to ask that is that storm for example thrustrating or are you sad for this person ...such...
    Caledonia Heron: I respect this person and would like to be heard for what I am saying ... the intention of my communication is honorable
    Susi Alcott: even I see this person also to be a help needer who's only very closed
    Susi Alcott: I cannot straightly try to help him/her
    Susi Alcott: but I'd like to try to help your to calm your storm
    Caledonia Heron: the storm will play out of it's own accord
    Caledonia Heron: I am more interested in how to effectively communicate true intention, perhaps in the face of non-receipt
    Caledonia Heron: this for me is where something could be learned imo, a place for growth
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.



    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what have you tried?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: can we start there?
    Susi Alcott: sometimes it is simply so, that the more we try to do something, the less successful we are
    Caledonia Heron: stating my thoughts openly and honestly is what I have tried
    Susi Alcott: and that may be the wrong way
    Caledonia Heron: again, not trying to problem solve but rather have an open discussion about intentionality and communication :)
    Susi Alcott: you may send so strong a beam with the try that it's frightened to somebody who don't know you
    Caledonia Heron: lol, that's funny Susi ...getting a very funny mental image
    Susi Alcott: ah; that's only simple laws of nature
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I understand, Cal..I know you aren't..but...for me..the personal is how I figure those things out.
    Susi Alcott: when ever we concentrate to some certain
    Susi Alcott: we 'send' our brain power onto that direction
    Caledonia Heron: understand Corvi
    Caledonia Heron: maybe you have an example?
    Susi Alcott: the stronger we do that the more narrow is the beam
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods...
    Caledonia Heron: yes Susi, directed energy
    Susi Alcott: yes



    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have a woman at work who I indirectly supervise.
    Susi Alcott: and ?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: In the store, for a long time there was an atmosphere of playing favorites, and not directly confronting issues until they became real problems.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and the rules were not being played by.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so...she has alot of fear.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: When I first started, I started trying to change the atmosphere, though my boss was part of creating it.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Which meant that I said alot of things plainly that in the old atmosphere would mean"we're about to fire you"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: in a newer one, they mean "here is an opportunity to change and grow"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: she liked that.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so..we started having a good relationship.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I got a new boss, who asked me to lead a hiring committee...there were two candidates.
    Caledonia Heron: hi Stevenaia :)
    Susi Alcott: he stevenaia
    Caledonia Heron: Corvi is telling a story
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: one was a friend of hers who was on the team already, and clearly not ready for the job..the other was a friend of the new boss, and was clearly the better candidate...already doing the job and well..though he isn't the most diplomatic of people.
    stevenaia Michinaga: Just taking a SL break
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Susi and Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: so...I lead the hiring committee, though I didn't make the actual decision..the woman's direct report did, with alot of pressure from me and my boss to hire the second candidate.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hi, Steve.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: The woman wound up feeling that I was being unfair to her friend, and that we were picking based on favorites, instead of what the people could do.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and won't talk to me, about that or anything else.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: is that close enough to talk about the issue of communication?
    Susi Alcott: well; at least she is a strong example of not-communication
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nodsnods, smiling ruefully.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes...
    Susi Alcott: and because there is so much hate within her now
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: in the face of perhaps my too strong and direct approach.
    Caledonia Heron: yes of course, a great example of non-communication



    Corvuscorva Nightfire: [7:40] Susi Alcott: sometimes it is simply so, that the more we try to do something, the less successful we are
    [7:40] Caledonia Heron: stating my thoughts openly and honestly is what I have tried
    [7:40] Susi Alcott: and that may be the wrong way
    [7:41] Caledonia Heron: again, not trying to problem solve but rather have an open discussion about intentionality and communication :)
    Susi Alcott: there are several things that one needs to notice if they want to find the key to help this person
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks about this example and the intent of their conversation...
    Caledonia Heron: I gather your intention was to make the best decision possible in the circumstances
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, listening to Susi.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes..Cal.
    Susi Alcott: one thing that is good to remember is, that hate is the 'child of sorrow'
    Caledonia Heron: it is hard, and this is what I am finding, it is hard to keep your intention true in the face of provocative or intentionally hurtful communication that is given back as a result
    Caledonia Heron: of being open to discuss tender matters
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Caledonia Heron: it is easy to respond with a sharp tongue .... the more considered, honest path requires a certain restraint it appears
    Susi Alcott: it is also good to remember that all of the people do not have the true will to create good things to all
    Susi Alcott: so what you'd need to know clearly---to my opinion---is that what created this persons hate
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Susi Alcott: what was her disappointment
    Susi Alcott: her own benefits maybe not to come for having a friend 'there'
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: her friend is still here...but...without the power she'd hoped for.
    Caledonia Heron: I am not responsible for other people's hate, I can only be responsible for my actions
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks...they would have been partners...
    Susi Alcott: or is she truely sad thinking that 'the best didn't win'
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hmm...I am not sure, Susi.
    Susi Alcott: you can find it out
    Susi Alcott: before you dont know that
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Only if she'll talk to me, and she won't.



    Susi Alcott: there is no genuine key
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: thinking on my behavior...
    Susi Alcott: you can observe and find out that way
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think I would have been fine if I had spoken less and listened more.
    Susi Alcott: I believe that you resolve that thinking this 'beam effect'
    Susi Alcott: if ever you feel so, you can also think about apologize
    Susi Alcott: that does not either cost anything ever
    Corvuscorva Nightfire perks up...and considers..."apologize..huh."
    Caledonia Heron: it's possible that what we *can * do is personally do our best to communicate, to be truely intentional, in a considerate way .... people will get what they get
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Susi Alcott: agree
    Susi Alcott: but when it is that we are in such state that our doings do effect to other people for example in the work group
    Corvuscorva Nightfire thinks to when she was leading the group and when she was talking to the woman after.
    Caledonia Heron: I bet it was hard Corvi
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: honestly, I think my fear that I was not being heard hurt our communication.
    Susi Alcott: we may often need to even to 'play' to apologze; sure ; doing it with honesty, yet not lowering ourself
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. It's very hard, now...I really want this woman, and her friend to succeed, but don't see how to be of help.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Susi..let me work out the "why" of the beginning a little more, then move on to that.
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Caledonia Heron: I know that part ... I want the communication to succeed but it's on a strange trajectory



    Caledonia Heron: oh gosh, I have to go
    Susi Alcott: long time ago I was teached that information goes foreward only by accedent :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Cal
    Susi Alcott: by Cal
    Susi Alcott: take care
    Troy McLuhan is Offline
    Caledonia Heron: bye you guys .... I go forward with intentional communication :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Cal!
    Caledonia Heron: onward!!
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Caledonia Heron: :)

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