2009.05.03 13:00 - The intelligence of dreams/dreaming

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden. 

    This discussion continues the thread of dreaming and its relationship to many aspects of reality, a thread which we have been pursuing for a few weeks now, and which still continues to draw interest and new ideas.

    Using this auto recorder and pasting it here, I have difficult editing the chatlog itself, beyond comments at the beginning and end, so will say here that among the themes we touched on were dreams as messengers from the unconscious, sometimes with messages we would as soon not know about, but dreams as also having a wisdom which is beyond our conscious intelligence, and also dreams as the vehicle in which to explore the vast inner cosmos of the unconscious regions. Also the notion of dreams as personal myths (Joseph Campbell). Thus a multi-layered image of the dream/dreamer.

       After I left the conversation it continued with discussion about various experience of light, of chakras, of energy paths -- more aspects of wisdom for us all. 


    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Eos
    Maxine Walden: nice to see you
    Eos Amaterasu: Pila mentioned you were doing a dream-themed session
    Maxine Walden: yes, we have been thinking about dreams and time, and dreams and their relationship to others things such as reality...a wide-ranging discussion. You have interest in dreams?
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes. It's another realm to experience your identity, whether lucidly or in memory....
    Maxine Walden: hi, Scath
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Scath!
    Maxine Walden: indeed, Eos.
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Maxine, Eos:)
    Eos Amaterasu: And SL has some dreamlike qualities as well
    Maxine Walden: doesn't it, though!
    Eos Amaterasu: including ability to fly :-)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pila
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pila
    Maxine Walden: yes, Eos
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila, Mick
    Pila Mulligan: greetings Maxine, Scath,Eos and Mick
    Maxine Walden: hi, Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya, eos Scath Max and Pil;a
    Eos Amaterasu: HI Mickorod
    Maxine Walden: Eos was just mentioning how SL has dream-like qualities such as being able to fly
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes, its lovely in that way
    Maxine Walden: we have been exploring dreams and their relationship to reality, time and other aspects in our Sunday 1pm discussions. Think we had thought of continuing in that direction today...
    Mickorod Renard: I would like that
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Mickorod Renard: I must admit to being in one of those periods where I dont remember my dreams
    Maxine Walden: not a problem, Mick, I seem to be in that same place right now...it may be that several issues influence recalling dreams
    Mickorod Renard: I am also in a period where i have been waking myself on purpose so as not to drop into the lucid dream mode whilst borderingg on waking
    Pila Mulligan: hi Wol
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello everyone, sorry I'm late
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol
    Maxine Walden: oh? care to say more, Mick
    Maxine Walden: hi, Wol, nice to see you
    Mickorod Renard: Well,,I have been having dreams that are disturbing,,so its my way of avoiding them
    Maxine Walden: ah...yes, taking charge in a way...
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: my control problem again
    Maxine Walden: probably servingan important function, to try to not experience disturbing dreams
    Mickorod Renard: well,,as long as the dreams stay in my subconcious at the moment thats fine,,I just dont want it interfearing in my concious
    Maxine Walden: sometimes unconscious messages, images, that may feel disturbing to the conscious self, and it may suit very well to try to keep those elements out of awareness. But at times we may feel haunted by that as well, as if some part of our mind is tryng to 'get' us
    Mickorod Renard: well, it could be an issue,,and I do ponder on it
    Mickorod Renard: like for example,,forgivness
    sophia Placebo: greeting all
    Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
    Maxine Walden: hi, sophia
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sophia
    Wol Euler: hello sophia
    Eos Amaterasu: HI Sophia
    Mickorod Renard: I am trying very hard to be forgiving,,yet my dreams often try and give me an oposite mood
    Mickorod Renard: oops
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Sophia
    Maxine Walden: mostly in my experience the dream-self tries to unify the mind...to bring difficult issues for understanding, reconciliation, etc...But what are others' experiences in this (or other) regard?
    Wol Euler: I think I would agree, maxine, my dreams often seem to want to explain things to me
    Maxine Walden: yes, wol...
    Eos Amaterasu: Mabye the more they are ignored the more extreme they get
    Mickorod Renard: Well, i did find that too,,but as i say,,for some time now they are a dark force within me
    Pila Mulligan: dreams often seem to be like a riddle -- teasing for an answer
    Maxine Walden: interesting thought, Eos,as fantasies grow in the dark,as it were, when they are not being recognized?
    Mickorod Renard: so far, I dont want to see the answer
    Wol Euler: the dreaming self is perhaps like an alt in SL, a minority personality whose view of the world doesn't necessarily coincide wiht "mine"
    sophia Placebo: i really want to know how memory shelf infos,the dreams makes it look like verey unusual method\
    Maxine Walden: and Mick, you are the one in charge of your experience...agree, Wol, that we may have minority aspects of self
    Maxine Walden: not sure, sophia what you are asking...
    Pila Mulligan: shelf = store ... as in how memory stores information?
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila, everyone :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Eliza
    Wol Euler: or how it's organized and indexed, perhaps ....
    sophia Placebo: i think that dreams help in some sort to organize the memory , as if you are witnissing your memory shelfing during dream
    Mickorod Renard: I too wonder where all the stage props come from,,and the actors
    Wol Euler: our waking self organizes by "good" or "bad" or "what happened on Tuesday", dreamlogic may use very different indexing
    Wol Euler: *organizes memories
    sophia Placebo: no pila , when you retain one ifo , you dont retain it alone but with many co-existing memories
    Pila Mulligan: aha
    Pila Mulligan: I see
    sophia Placebo: that happen due to shelfing , certain ifo being tied togather
    Pila Mulligan: literal shelfing then
    sophia Placebo: or that what i think , not sure how i come to this
    Maxine Walden: seems that several of us have given some thought to the hows of dreaming, probably from our experience?
    sophia Placebo: hi eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Hi sophia
    Mickorod Renard: my dreams often rely on completely new material,,like new places and people,,it makes me wonder whether the dream mind accesses exterior sources
    sophia Placebo: true max, i had a stage of memory and concentrating diffculty and was accompanied with diffrent sleep which lack dreams among other things
    Pila Mulligan: some dreams seem to be onion-like, in that if you get thorugh one layer there is a slightly different layer next
    Maxine Walden: interesting thought, Mick, or maybe the dream seeks 'new' material as a way to try to disguise things, to allow the dreamer to sleep or allow other organization. Dreams are rarely literal in my experience
    Mickorod Renard: mmm
    Maxine Walden: agree, Pila, re the layering effect
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Mickorod Renard: sometimes books are like that too Pila
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes I think we pick up on things we don't realize we do also... and they may show up in dreams ie a certain painting or person
    Eliza Madrigal: they've been in our environment all along perhaps
    Maxine Walden: dreams seem to carry on several functions at the same time: to organize experience, to inform the dreamer, to allow sleep, (several others) and it is intriguing to me that the 'dreamer' is so intelligent in carrying out these various functions...an inner intelligence
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, good question, who is the dreamer?
    Maxine Walden: an inner intelligence which in my experience far exceeds the external (conscious) intelligence of the self
    Pila Mulligan: speaking of books, Mick, there seem to be Wizard of Oz style dreams too, where what seems to be a wizard turns out to be someone behind a curtain :) (or a dragon is really more a mouse)
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Pila Mulligan: fears seem to have that Wizard of Oz technique -- they multiply their presence beyond their actual merit, so they look like a dragon, but when you face them directly you see a mouse
    Eliza Madrigal: grrovy glasses Sophia ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: *groovy
    Mickorod Renard: yes, i see your point now Pila,,,very true
    sophia Placebo: thank you :))
    Maxine Walden: sort of like the fears of the young child, bigger than life, Pila?
    Eos Amaterasu: Do you face them in your dream, or afterward?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, Maxine -- and also the fears od adults :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ara
    Pila Mulligan: I like to face fears in dreams, Eos
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arabella
    Pila Mulligan: less damaging :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Pila, lucidly?
    Pila Mulligan: hi ara
    sophia Placebo: hi ara
    Pila Mulligan: hopefully, Eos :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hrllo Ara
    Mickorod Renard: I used to love dreaming
    Wol Euler: but you don't know?
    Maxine Walden: when it is possible to allow thoughts about the dream when awake, sometimes things come to mind which make the dream make more sense, as if a message unencrypted
    Eliza Madrigal: absolutely, Maxine. I find that fascinating, how what can seem to have little or obvious meaning can unfold
    Eliza Madrigal: unto something profound
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I sometimes sit with a friend and decipher them
    Maxine Walden: that inner intelligence again, slowly informing the conscious self...if we can let it unfold
    Mickorod Renard: its strange,,sometimes you can dismiss some but others u know mean something
    Maxine Walden: and who is the dreamer? Currently I am intrigued with the notion that the dream is a vehicle for exploration of a vast inner cosmos (like a mirror of the external cosmos) which we only are beginning to get to know
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    arabella Ella nods
    Mickorod Renard: I often keep them awake in my mind for months,,until i have deciphered the meaning
    Pila Mulligan: dreamer as astronaut :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Love that picture Maxine
    Maxine Walden: so dream as vehicle, but also as embodying an extraordinary intelligence...several headed aspect of the psyche?
    Eos Amaterasu: who is playing as us is more than our conscious us
    Maxine Walden: yes, awe re these inner aspects of the psyche...
    Eliza Madrigal: An (vastly intelligent) dreamer within a dream vehicle within a dreamer?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: but is the same super-being at work in the same manner during waking time
    Maxine Walden: another type of onion, Eliza, many layered?
    Eliza Madrigal: I can see that...nesting
    Maxine Walden: interesting, question, Pila. Your thoughts?
    Pila Mulligan: I think so, and then the question is does this being dream like me
    Pila Mulligan: or is it in a non-dream, non-waking place
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm
    Wol Euler: that superbeing during waking life is perhaps how wu wei works ...
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Maxine Walden: My current thoughts suggest that how we focus attention may determine what we can embrace when awake, and our conscious selves are likely less able to embrace the vastness which the dream may do. ...Wol, could you say more?
    Wol Euler: mmmm, it was a half-formed thought. I think the superbeing can creep out during ex eptional times, when we are in flow for example
    Wol Euler: because normally there is too miuch noise to hear its soft voice
    Wol Euler: perhaps taht is the "doer" when we are not-doing wu wei...
    Wol Euler: because it is not "us"
    Maxine Walden: yes, Wol, agree...
    Pila Mulligan: and what Maxine said about how we focus attention is an important element there
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats interesting
    Maxine Walden: our focussing attention selves may be part of what we try to put aside when accessing Being...maybe allowing Being more space is somthing akin to allowing the space for the vastness of the dreaming function
    Pila Mulligan: many things compete with Being for our attention -- such as television, traffic, etc.
    arabella Ella nods
    Eos Amaterasu: even withing dreams things compete with Being :-)
    sophia Placebo: common dreams=common being ?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I heard a Joseph Campbell quote the other day : "Myths are collective dreams, and dreams are personal myths."
    Maxine Walden: oh, nice quote, Eliza
    Wol Euler: heheheh. nice.
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    sophia Placebo: nice:)
    sophia Placebo: lol we used the same word :)
    arabella Ella: cool quote Eliza ... lovely
    Pila Mulligan: (for the record: now a philosophical purist may question how television is not part of Being, and of course TV is part of being, but it is not part of the higher light of Being)
    Eos Amaterasu: dreams help see unexamined myths.... make life worth living :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pila Mulligan: personal mythology is my favorite part of Campbell's work
    Mickorod Renard: is he worth a read then?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hehhe Pila.... yes, at some point we should experience and allow Being even while watching TV...should be 'the same' no matter what..yes?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Maxine Walden: yes, lovely part of his work
    arabella Ella: could you expand perhaps Pila on what you mean by 'part of the higher light of Being'?
    Pila Mulligan: should be but isn't
    Pila Mulligan: television is like tunnel vision, it cuts off peripheral vision, decreasing the light seen
    Eliza Madrigal: I think sometimes it can be....one turns on TV and there is a line perhaps...
    Eliza Madrigal: And it ties in with everything else one is studying, etc
    Pila Mulligan: my expereince has led me to pay attention to the quality of light -- and follow the higher light, when it is available
    Wol Euler: agreed, TV seems the be the opposite of concentration and clarity and clear-mindedness to me
    Pila Mulligan: especially advertising -- it is ahoax usually
    Pila Mulligan: a hoax
    Eliza Madrigal: But it does seem to dull things if a continual pattern
    arabella Ella: but ... today ... aren't some programmes on TV like books or like excellent websites ... possibilities for new understanding?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,it sucks you in at the expense of other things
    Pila Mulligan: sure ara
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes
    arabella Ella: (forget advertising of course)
    Wol Euler: yes ara, but a bigger yes to mick :)
    Pila Mulligan: and a bigger yes yet to forget advertising :)
    Pila Mulligan: there we see the importance of seeing intent
    Pila Mulligan: no matter how beautiful the ad, the intent is to sell
    Eos Amaterasu: television, especialy news, tends to be reality fictionalized
    Eliza Madrigal: Eos, agreed
    Eliza Madrigal: I do miss Book TV, but then when I measure...I'd watch 4 hours for every 1 hr I *deeply* enjoyed or learned from. In general I don't like to put a 'bad' sign on anything though
    Eos Amaterasu: whereas in a most movies it's just fiction....
    Wol Euler: yes, and with the attention span and memory of a 1 yyr old child
    Eos Amaterasu: which illumines reality, or could
    Eos Amaterasu: something like "the wire" is superb fiction illumining reality
    arabella Ella: but Eos ... surely you cannot generalise what you said to all news?
    Eos Amaterasu: but teh news tends to obscure reality
    sophia Placebo: sometimes i open tv to only watch advertising -usually in the break time of my personal study- so shallow and allow one thoughts to sittle
    Eos Amaterasu: No, not all news....
    Eos Amaterasu: but I don't think there's enough awareness of the myth-making dimension of news
    Eos Amaterasu: playing as news
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eos Amaterasu: eg "mission accomplished"
    Pila Mulligan: this is an old Sufi quote: 'those who tell the news tell too much'
    sophia Placebo: or too less
    arabella Ella: well one example of myth making in the news ... altho i may be wrong ... is the coverage of swine flu
    Wol Euler: I think that one could fill the bulk of the New Yor "Times" with four or five news stories, if one was to tell them fully
    arabella Ella: creating panic
    sophia Placebo: which could make a mix btw truth and some poeple dreams
    Wol Euler: instead of a dozen per page
    Maxine Walden: have to go to another meeting in a minute or so. Nice discussion; shall we continue this open theme re dreams next wek?
    Maxine Walden: Or is there a wish for another theme?
    Wol Euler: yes, please, it seems to have good legs still :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes please
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I must go also. Thank you Maxine, and yes to Wol! :)
    Wol Euler: (unless ayone disagrees?)
    Eos Amaterasu: Also have to go....
    Mickorod Renard: bye Max and Eliza
    Maxine Walden: great, let's continue this theme. Is leading to good discussion.
    Pila Mulligan: a joke someone sent: 'my grandpa once said a black person would be elected president when pigs fly -- and sure enough, swine flu'
    Eos Amaterasu: by all, thnks
    sophia Placebo: thanks max , see you later
    Maxine Walden: Bye all
    arabella Ella: yes please Maxine
    Wol Euler: bye maxine, thank you. bye eliza and eos
    arabella Ella: bye Maxine
    arabella Ella: bye Eliza
    Pila Mulligan: bye Maxine and Eliza, thnaks
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Maxine, Eliza, Eos
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone!
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Mickorod Renard: bye Eos
    arabella Ella: bye Eos
    sophia Placebo: bye all leaving popel
    Mickorod Renard: is there something on?
    Scathach Rhiadra: where Mick?
    arabella Ella: at Kira?
    Mickorod Renard: like at Kira?
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Scathach Rhiadra: um, don't think so
    Mickorod Renard: ok cool
    Mickorod Renard: thanks
    arabella Ella: Pila ... could you elaborate on what you were saying earlier ... light Being?
    Mickorod Renard: I like Stims on thursdays
    arabella Ella: (or have i got it wrong) ooops shhhh apologies
    Pila Mulligan: light has quality, arabella -- for example, consider the soft colors and shadows of an afternoon in the park, and compare that with the glare in a room where the only light comes from a television
    arabella Ella: yes very true
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, Namasté
    Wol Euler: bye scath, goodnight
    arabella Ella: but ... i sometimes find telley a source of understanding
    Pila Mulligan: bye Scath
    Mickorod Renard: bye Scath
    arabella Ella: ciao Scath
    Pila Mulligan: yes, the content may be informative, but the light itself is of a lesser quality
    arabella Ella: yes definitely athough
    Mickorod Renard: light seems very fundamental i think
    arabella Ella: i am fortunate that i live in a warm climate with long days and lovely light so i know what you mean
    Pila Mulligan: in my expereince there are similar contrasts in the quality of light, obvious or subtle, in many situations
    arabella Ella: i dont think i could ever live for long time in countries with short days
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Wol Euler: you get used to it, and they have their charms too.
    arabella Ella: do you have short days Pila where you are?
    Mickorod Renard: people in the Uk suffer from SAD
    arabella Ella nods
    Wol Euler: the hours and hours of twilight, for instance.
    arabella Ella: we do not have twighlight here
    Wol Euler: sunsets in winter take hours!
    Pila Mulligan: well, maybe an hour's difference in time -- I am also in a tropical area
    arabella Ella: and you have longer summer days Wol and Micko
    Wol Euler: yep
    arabella Ella: i love your twighlight ... here it suddenly gets dark at night
    arabella Ella: very different
    Pila Mulligan: yes, tropical sunsets seem very fast
    arabella Ella: but i love light
    arabella Ella: i have heard it said that some people enjoy going to the cinema in winter on dull days to get their dose of light ... not sure whether it is effective though
    Pila Mulligan: seeing the quality of light is to me one of the subtle lessons of meditation, or any practice that gets closer to Being
    arabella Ella: mmmmm
    sophia Placebo: pila , do you remmber you once mentioned some six aspects of self ?
    sophia Placebo: it was after maxine dream workshop at kira
    Pila Mulligan: perhaps in regard to the six chakras sophia?
    sophia Placebo: yes , i crashed after i asked you about them
    Pila Mulligan: well, they are a Hindu idea
    sophia Placebo: what is it?
    Pila Mulligan: found also in other culktuires, but chakra is Hindu
    Pila Mulligan: they are energy centers in the body
    Mickorod Renard: sounds interesting
    Pila Mulligan: each associated with a partiucular type of energy
    arabella Ella: could you tell us more Pila please?
    Pila Mulligan: and also coicidentally aligned with nerve synapses
    sophia Placebo: like healing centers like chinese medicine?
    Pila Mulligan: well, like everything, chakra theory has diverse schools
    Pila Mulligan: not exactly like the chinese sophia
    Pila Mulligan: but related in theory
    arabella Ella: is the meridian a chakra Pila?
    sophia Placebo: i see
    Pila Mulligan: no, it is like what a Hindu calls a nadi
    Pila Mulligan: the Hindus have nadi's radiating from chakras
    Pila Mulligan: where the chinese have m eridians
    arabella Ella: oh ok i see
    arabella Ella: so a nadi is ... ?
    Pila Mulligan: an energy path, like a nerve
    arabella Ella: (scuse my ignorance)
    arabella Ella: so similar to a meridian it seems to me so far?
    arabella Ella: (altho u say it is different ... )
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_(yoga) -- if oyu compare them they seem similar
    arabella Ella: ty
    Pila Mulligan: but there are differences in some details
    Pila Mulligan: also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra
    arabella Ella: ty
    sophia Placebo: ty pila
    Pila Mulligan: now I have some slightly different views than the wikipedia authors, but these are typical desciprions of chakras and nadis
    arabella Ella: please go on if you could?
    arabella Ella: what is your view on this then if i may ask?
    Pila Mulligan: I agree with the concept, entirely
    Pila Mulligan: energy centers and energy paths are undeniable in traditional and modern scinece
    Pila Mulligan: we have in science nerves and nerve ganglia
    Pila Mulligan: and in traditional thought we have nadis and chakras
    Pila Mulligan: very close too
    arabella Ella: yes?
    Pila Mulligan: in how they are described
    Pila Mulligan: not sure where to go fomr there :)
    sophia Placebo: ancient poeple where very good observer and describers too
    Pila Mulligan: chi is the energy in chinese theory that travels thru these paths
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and ancient cultures accumulated observations from generation to generation for many centuries (millenia even) as they developed and refined their ideas
    Pila Mulligan: Hindus use the term prana where Chionses use chi, Japanese say ki, Hawaiians say ha
    Pila Mulligan: it is all the same -- breath energy
    Mickorod Renard: cool
    sophia Placebo: one thing i found related to these nadi is pain gate theory
    Pila Mulligan: so these observations had common gorunds
    Mickorod Renard: I was facinated with hinduism when the Beatles got involved
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    arabella Ella: @Sophia ... pain gate theory ... please tell us more ...
    Pila Mulligan: sophia, owuld youliek to say more about it
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_co...theory_of_pain
    sophia Placebo: cant remmber much of it , but it is about the nerve fibers that carries pain , it is action potential and its path to cause the effect we call pain , there are some pain that could be blocked by light touch , like if you hurt your finger you lick it , that what was facinating about the nadi , they choose certain points that block the pain for certain skin areas
    arabella Ella: sounds intruiging
    sophia Placebo: verey amazing for me , needs an aware mind
    Mickorod Renard: the nerves are seen as the link between the immune system and sensory and cognitive experience
    Pila Mulligan: one such place is on the bottom of the front of the foot between the two mounds behind the toes -- a friend said she expereinced little pain in two childbirths because her husband massaged there during the delivery
    Mickorod Renard: I coppied that
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: sounds like reflexology Pila?
    sophia Placebo: :))
    Pila Mulligan: the common grounds exists among many schools it seems :)
    arabella Ella: however it is a pity that western medicine seems to have lost ... forgotten ... ignored ... so much
    Pila Mulligan: well, western medicine is a hostage in many ways
    arabella Ella nods
    Pila Mulligan: to commercial sicence
    arabella Ella: exactly
    Pila Mulligan: like drug comapnies
    Wol Euler: and the insurance companies
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Mickorod Renard: I think some cultures made huge inroads into this sort of work but when modern medicines came out,,especially for pain relief and anethetic,,it must have moved to the background
    Pila Mulligan: western sceince can do magic in many ways, but I agree with Mick that it misses a lot
    Pila Mulligan: and fashion also affects these things -- yoga ha srecently become more acceptable in western culture, fr example
    arabella Ella: yes and so has acapuncture too
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Mickorod Renard: I think there is so much to discover still,,or even re discover
    arabella Ella: oh definitely
    Pila Mulligan: rediscover and remmeber iwll be a large part of it
    Pila Mulligan: and integrate
    arabella Ella: yes ... remember what was forgotton or ignored for some time
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: all traditional cultures developed a dualistic energy theory like yin and yang -- but in modern times scinece sees dual energy everyehere -- like positive and negative electricity
    Pila Mulligan: they are related I'm sure
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,they must be,,even good and bad
    arabella Ella nods
    Pila Mulligan: it is how the mind works, as well as nature
    Mickorod Renard: now then,,i must think about going home
    arabella Ella: yes ... dualisms ... like good and bad ... mind and body ... etc
    Mickorod Renard: yes true
    Pila Mulligan: bye then Mick, have a nice evening
    arabella Ella: bye Mick
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou,,bye folks
    Wol Euler: bye mick
    Wol Euler: damn, too slow
    Wol Euler: actually I should go too, it's 23:30 and tomorrow is working day.
    Wol Euler: thank you for a great discussion, my dears.
    Wol Euler: goodnight all.
    Pila Mulligan: bye Wol, sweet dreams
    arabella Ella: nite Wol
    arabella Ella: same time here
    arabella Ella: must go too
    arabella Ella: bye Pila
    Pila Mulligan: bye arabella, sweet dreams also
    arabella Ella: thanks and good afternoon to u ... i guess it is afternoon where u are
    Pila Mulligan: 11:30 am
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    arabella Ella: cool ... u still got much of your sunday to go then ... enjoy ... bye
    Pila Mulligan: aloha
    arabella Ella: hey 12 hours time difference :)
    arabella Ella: aloha
    Pila Mulligan: :)
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