2009.06.18 07:00 - Delicate Perception/I got to make myself fresh

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal.

    I arrived to Corvi and Constance. Soon we were joined by Yakuzza. We talked fiberoptics for a while, and then attempted to clarify Appreciation of Appearances and whether 'liking' something can be a filter to that idea.

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Corvi!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Constance
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hi, Eliza, Constance, Yakuzza
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, and Yakuzza! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Good to see everyone today
    Eliza Madrigal: Corvi, it seems like so long since I've seen you
    Constance Fairport: i'm invisible!
    Eliza Madrigal: I see you Constance:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not really :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah
    Constance Fairport: that's good
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you upgrade SL?
    Eliza Madrigal: I haven't yet
    Constance Fairport: i'll try another browser
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: It has been a long time, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hope all is well
    Constance Fairport: the telephone company upgraded everything here to fiber optics
    Constance Fairport: my internet speed is 20meg/sec
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in germany ur in trouble when you got fiber :)
    Constance Fairport: really?
    Constance Fairport: why?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because there are no products on fiber in most regions
    Constance Fairport: curious!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: its rediculous
    Constance Fairport: here, they're putting fiber optics everywhere
    Constance Fairport: even our TV is on it
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Constance Fairport: i downloaded a 700 meg linux distribution in 6 minutes
    Constance Fairport: i can watch youtube movies without any delays
    Eliza Madrigal: That's a luxury :)
    Constance Fairport: unfortunately it hasn't made SL run much faster
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t even have more then 768kbit
    Yakuzza Lethecus: on dsl here
    Constance Fairport: wow
    Constance Fairport: yes, i had dsl
    Eliza Madrigal: That's odd Constance. I would think it would be an improvment here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: maximum is 16 but you have to be close to the access point
    Yakuzza Lethecus: here are you from eliza ?
    Eliza Madrigal: I live in Miami :)
    Constance Fairport: well, that means the bottleneck is with Linden, not our home computers
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what linux distro are you using constance ?
    Constance Fairport: ubuntu
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Constance Fairport: the latest version
    Yakuzza Lethecus: And are there still driver issues ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: with ur soundcard, constance ?
    Constance Fairport: yes, with the sound card
    Constance Fairport: oh well...
    Constance Fairport: linux users usually don't care about sound much
    Constance Fairport: the card plays sound but can't handle the microphone

    Postures and Computers  

    Constance Fairport: i'm glad i'm an avatar --- sitting this way would be extremely uncomfortable!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, at least after a while
    Yakuzza Lethecus: what kind of chairs are you all using ?
    Eliza Madrigal: haha Constance. If you click the cushions it will change
    Constance Fairport: they must have a pose built in
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is sombody sanding in front of the pc ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: standing
    Constance Fairport: what do you mean?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: he..no..I have a laptop and couch.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm certainly not. :) I change my chair a lot these days, because I find that the height matters to my back
    Constance Fairport: i'm at a conventional desktop
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I sit so much in front of this thing, and i think much about the issue that i have to think more about ergonomcs
    Constance Fairport: ah the blue cushions are different
    Yakuzza Lethecus: And so i am also curious who other ppl are handling that issue.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: laptop and I move alot.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm not a sit in one place person anyway.
    Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza, I had real issues for a while there, when I first signed onto SL and found myself here a lot
    Eliza Madrigal: but changing things around every once in a while seems to be the key...and stretching!
    Eliza Madrigal: I would imagine that during the stops, a breathe/stretch might be a good idea sometimes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: I bought an arm for my pc and i am using a ball, a regular office chair and an kneechair
    sophia Placebo: greetings
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey sophia
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Sophia!
    Eliza Madrigal: A friend of mine uses a pilates ball instead of a chair... says it is great for stomach muscles :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I do that sometimes, actually.
    Constance Fairport: hello
    Eliza Madrigal: yes?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah..it's just kinda fun.
    Eliza Madrigal pictures Corvi bouncing at the computer
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mostly I just change positions on the couch.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to invest in a laptop which will handle SL, but in a way
    Constance Fairport: that would be pretty expensive
    Eliza Madrigal: I think the desktop causes me to structure my online time
    Constance Fairport: yes, a laptop makes it too easy to casually go onto sl
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmhmm!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i already tried second life on my ipod touch but you will only have a friendshiplist and basic communication
    sophia Placebo thinks a desktop is more efficient for sl
    Constance Fairport: you need good graphics
    Eliza Madrigal nods...crucial
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like using second life with a second monitor
    Constance Fairport: i even plan to upgrade my graphics card
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..sure would be nice..mine are awful.
    sophia Placebo: my laptop got really hot due to the graphes, i would need the cooling table for it to survive
    Constance Fairport: yes the good cards are like furnacesx
    Constance Fairport: furnaces*
    Eliza Madrigal: Is that what it is...

    The Appreciation Excercize

    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if anyone has thoughts on the appreciation excercize? I've been thinking about it more and more...slow starting :)
    Constance Fairport: what is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: Leading up to a RL retreat some are attending, we've been talking a lot about 'appreciating the presence of appearance'
    Eliza Madrigal: which is a phrase that has taken me a while to appreciate :)
    Constance Fairport: physical form, or appearance in general?
    Constance Fairport: here, we get to appear any way we want
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: is appreciate and apprehend the same?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes! Anything is an appearance
    Constance Fairport: appearance is a reflection of our souls
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm... I don't think so Corvi, if you mean as in understand?
    Eliza Madrigal: take hold of? I wonder if one can appreciate something they think they've gotten hold of
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was thinking about the "liking" aspect of appreciation....
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and thinking it might be one of those red herrings.
    Eliza Madrigal: ahh, I see
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and trying to understand appreciate without that part of it.
    Eliza Madrigal: that we mistaken appreciating for enjoying/liking
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: really interesting idea. I know I often do that
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: here's a definition I like...err..appreciate...Awareness or delicate perception, especially of aesthetic qualities or values.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: from Answers.com.
    Eliza Madrigal ponders delicate perception
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..I wonder exactly what that means...
    Eliza Madrigal: it conjurs thoughts of sheerness
    Constance Fairport: amazing how quickly night falls here
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: sheerness?
    Constance Fairport: appearance is one way our souls express themselves
    Eliza Madrigal: Seeing through... allowing light to get through
    Constance Fairport: a kind of language
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: ah.
    Constance Fairport: we create our own realities --- in rl as well as sl
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: you know...the liking aspect of the word may come from the "getting it" aspect of it...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: we tend to like what we understand/know/grok.
    sophia Placebo: we tend to like what we get used to sometimes too
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: indeed.
    sophia Placebo: like a stranger remmbering home or an old person re telling the stories of the past
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Constance and thinks about the projections/pictures we throw out and step into...most often images we enjoy, which make sense to us...can be limiting certainly.

    Implications of partially aware creatures creating their own realities :)

    Constance Fairport: we can also create unpleasant events
    Constance Fairport: if we believe they must happen
    Eliza Madrigal nods so true... and find others to create with us :)
    Constance Fairport: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes
    Constance Fairport: people tend to attract others with similar beliefs
    sophia Placebo: birds find its alike as a saying goes here
    Constance Fairport: yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: birds of a feather, flock together.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes there are layers to that... have noticed years later people in my life who 'suddenly' bear resemblence to others before... Hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi unitor...Welcome :)
    sophia Placebo: yes corv :)
    Constance Fairport: so have i
    sophia Placebo: hi unitor
    Eliza Madrigal: deep puzzles we seem to try to work out
    Constance Fairport: sometimes unfortunate events serve a useful purpose
    sophia Placebo: yes to others sometimes though
    Constance Fairport: i used to be part of a group that played a game called wallyball
    Constance Fairport: it's like volleyball, but played in a raquetball court
    Eliza Madrigal: wallyball?
    Eliza Madrigal: ah
    Constance Fairport: it's very fast since you bounce the ball off the walls
    Constance Fairport: we played it a lot and i got bored with it
    Eliza Madrigal: raquetball is fast on its own...am picturing this
    Constance Fairport: but was afraid to drop out because my friends would think i was a party-pooper
    Constance Fairport: then i ran for a ball, slipped and fell against the wall, breaking my wrist
    Constance Fairport: i got out of playing and had a good excuse
    sophia Placebo: ouch
    Constance Fairport: true, it would've been easier if i'd just said no
    Eliza Madrigal: a circumstance rescued you in a way...causing a question as to whether you drew that in?
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Constance Fairport: but i got out of playing and had the sympathy of my friends
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Constance Fairport: in a sense it did
    sophia Placebo: sometimes words hurt more than a broken wrist
    Constance Fairport: maybe there were better ways to handle that
    Constance Fairport: a broken wrist hurts quite a bit!
    Eliza Madrigal: We would hope so Constance :)
    Constance Fairport: but i didn't think of them
    Constance Fairport: i went to these games dreading them
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes there aren't. Sometimes others will indeed react the way we fear ! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: We have to be willing to deal with that conflict. What a tough thing!
    Constance Fairport: i didn't deliberately hurl myself against the wall --- but somehow created that event
    Constance Fairport: i wonder about other seemingly tragic events
    Eliza Madrigal: There was a conversation here sometimes back about 'precongnition' and choosing before one thinks they've chosen
    Constance Fairport: like the kennedy assassination
    Constance Fairport: there were many many scandals that were about to break on him: his affairs, his mob connections, etc
    Constance Fairport: by getting assassinated, he went out with honor
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Constance Fairport: people who had dirt on him quietly disposed of it --- exposing him would have been pointless
    Eliza Madrigal: Not easy to make a direct connection there for me...such a multifasceted thing
    Constance Fairport: he became a tragic figure
    Eliza Madrigal: Unfortunately in history people have a habit of killing their fearless, outspoken idealists
    Constance Fairport: but it served a purpose for him
    Constance Fairport: yes, he was an idealist, but very flawed --- and his flaws were beginning to catch up with him
    Eliza Madrigal: or even those others project as such

    Back at Appreciating and its Meaning 

    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm still back at "appreciating..."
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and it's meaning.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that's an example, really...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: of the difference between clear seeing and liking.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm. Go on Corvi?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: though clear seeing in that case would be very difficult.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I was thinking a little off topic actually...about what would it would be like to let go of "liking" as I "appreciate".
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: instead of saying "I like that bird sound I hear"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: saying "I note that bird sound"
    Constance Fairport: i'm afraid i've got to leave now --- it's been fascinating! Goodbye all!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Consstance!
    sophia Placebo: bye con
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Constance :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or "wow" bird sound
    Eliza Madrigal: just noticing
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or.."ah! there is that bird sound"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: are all those "appreciating?"
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: or are some not?
    Eliza Madrigal: fantastic question
    sophia Placebo: or wondering about that bird sound
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..oooo...yeah...
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so, and I do think the 'liking' is a blindspot/filter/trap that is easy to fall in
    sophia Placebo nods
    Eliza Madrigal: really easy, because we're sort of taught that to appreciate means finding something to like about/beauty
    sophia Placebo: but after wandering about it you would like it
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm not even entirely sure it's wrong..just...somehow...off topic.
    sophia Placebo: again
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Sophia :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Think so Corvi?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: like..I might like it or not...but..that's not the point of appreciating it.
    sophia Placebo: true
    Eliza Madrigal: and then further, do we need a point...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles at that.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: there is that.
    sophia Placebo: g2g, thanks corv i was thinking about that sentence since i join untill now :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm getting more excited by the idea of sitting with APAPB for the longer stretches... is dawning, and I think this question helps.
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye sophia :) Good to see you today.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, S"ophia!!
    sophia Placebo: bye
    Eliza Madrigal thinks yakuzza must be checking emails...heheh
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh im´s actually
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is anyone of you visiting that real life retrat ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t even know about budistic retreats before
    Eliza Madrigal: Not this time unfortunately...would love to though
    Yakuzza Lethecus: now i googled and there is even a retreat 20 kilometers from here in the forest :P
    Eliza Madrigal: I can be horribly shy. I prob. would attend something like that and be like the loony tunes frog...singing dancing and then...nada. :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: abviously not that retreat but buddism was relativly alienated for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i really still like sitting around here an just reading
    Eliza Madrigal: Yakuzza, there are various sorts of retreats.... I've only been in workshops
    Eliza Madrigal: Those who attend them though, find the concentrated practice and focus to be vital
    Eliza Madrigal: they never seem to stop going once they've had the experience :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods..I've noticed that...like retreat junkies.
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, yes
    Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol

    And a line I will keep forever and use over and over again, thanks to Yakuzza:

    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok i got to make myself fresh
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Yakuzza :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins...bye, Yakuzza.
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: So, Eliza, I've appreciated your hair and shoes so much, I will have to go shopping.
    Eliza Madrigal: Why thank you! I was thinking the same about your hair... is so fun.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: hehe.
    Eliza Madrigal: Lately I'm drawn to flowy dresses but think an edge is coming
    Eliza Madrigal: why not! :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods!
    Eliza Madrigal: think I've not been too sharp today... was here til 1AM with Pila last night... hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: watching U-tube videos
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oooooooo
    Eliza Madrigal: fun though... Summer is differently paced for me. You?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Pila's a bad influence..*nods solemnly* what were the videos? deep breathing or something even better?
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: yes..it is...slower.
    Eliza Madrigal: haha...Joni Mitchell actually... and Simon Garfunkel
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers.
    Eliza Madrigal: There was a hawaiian (sp?) artist he shared who was great...
    Eliza Madrigal: very smooth.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: That may be the single best thing about the internet... that one is not confined to what mainstream allows
    Eliza Madrigal: and markets
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is certainly one of them.
    Eliza Madrigal: The images coming out of Iran certainly drive home that point
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nodsnods.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: it's harder to hide, now.
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I expected to see the clerics re-positioning themselves according to the people's voices as much
    Eliza Madrigal: Certainly is!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I too need to go make myself fresh.
    Eliza Madrigal: Me too :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'm glad I got to sit with you, Eliza.
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Corvuscorva Nightfire grins.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm so happy to get to see you for a bit today Corvi :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Talk soon.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods, smiling warmly.

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