Page last modified 17:49, 9 Apr 2010 by wol

*Wol Euler was guardian for this session, just Bertrum and myself.*

Bertrum Quan: good morning Wol

Wol Euler: hello bert, nice hat.

Bertrum Quan: Cobalt blue

Wol Euler grins and nods

Wol Euler: very blue

Bertrum Quan: How are you this morning?

Wol Euler: pretty well, actuallly, in a quiet mood

Wol Euler: and yourself?

Bertrum Quan: Same as you.

Wol Euler: :)

Wol Euler: the Zeitgeist in action.

Bertrum Quan: Indeed.

The topic arrives.

Wol Euler: the retreaters are asleep, their last day starts in five hours

Wol Euler: (I assume they are asleep, perhaps they're drinking Jack Daniels and listening to the Grateful Dead)

Bertrum Quan: or both.

Wol Euler: heheheh

Wol Euler: what a great step forward in life-efficiency that would be.

Bertrum Quan: and for a retreat, that would have them see each other coming and going.

Bertrum Quan: the word retreat is a funny one sometimes...

Wol Euler: mmm?

Bertrum Quan: suggests backward motion...

Wol Euler: mmhmmm

Wol Euler: depends on which direction you look, I suppose.

Wol Euler: the word does privilege the direction "forwards", but what does that mean?

Wol Euler: mundane working life, bills and TV and the same old same old.

--BELL--

Wol Euler: hello nymf

Nymf joins us.

Nymf Hathaway: Hello you two :) thanks Bertrum :)

Bertrum Quan: we're playing with the notion of the word retreat...

Bertrum Quan: and the vantage points of forward and backward motion

Nymf vanishes.

Wol Euler: that scared her off!

Bertrum Quan: perhaps not... it's not very scary...

Wol Euler: :)

Bertrum Quan: it's interesting though... to me at least... the meanings of retreat.

Wol Euler: please continue :)

Bertrum Quan: retreat, is to withdraw, to get away from, to move backwards... it can suggest defeat (tactical or strategic).

Wol Euler nods.

Wol Euler: Napoleon and Moscow, and all that.

Wol Euler: perhaps we should call it a "consolidation" instead...

Bertrum Quan: depends on the "it."

Wol Euler: specifically in the context of meditational or other Retreating

Bertrum Quan: Yes, in that case, consolidation, is better--especially because it suggests a sense of oneness or wholeness.

Wol Euler: which is (for me at least) a large part of the purpose of the whole thing

Bertrum Quan: I agree.

Bertrum Quan: The word retreat... suggests in some ways the opposite.

Wol Euler: perhaps use a capital R for our sense, and a lowercase r for the military/defeat sense?

Bertrum Quan: I like your substitution better-- consolidation...

Bertrum Quan: But the sense of disparities in the word is very appropriate also

Wol Euler: agreed, it is appropriate to say "here" and "there", but I question the implication of inadequacy or failure in the common use

--BELL--

Bertrum Quan: exactly.

Bertrum Quan: The word retreat is also associated with a temporary change in venue ... and in that sense a vantage point from which to regain and or gain (in)sight.

Wol Euler nods.

Must a retreat be a "place"?

Bertrum Quan: Do you think the physical change is necessary to create that awareness?

Wol Euler: necessary, no; but it sure helps. Leaving the habitual and well-known behind (losing distractions) is a very strong helper IMHO

Wol Euler: which is part of the reason why people go to conferences :)

Wol Euler: so maybe it's not absolutely necessary, but it is relatively necessary.

Wol Euler: (changing my mind.)

Bertrum Quan: That's a phrase I like too--the idea of changing one's mind.

Bertrum Quan: That's where the change matters.

Wol Euler: Franz Josef Strauss said "The skull is round so that your thoughts can change direction."

Bertrum Quan: Great quote. I hadn't read that one before.

Wol Euler: he's not widely known. He was a German (Bavarian) politician of the old school, post-war reconstruction

Wol Euler: a right-winger, but an honest and decent one.

Is SL itself a "retreat"?

Bertrum Quan: Do you see SL as a kind of "retreat?"

Wol Euler: not really, no.

Wol Euler: I'd rather say that it is at right angles to the other stuff :)

Wol Euler: not yes/no

Bertrum Quan: It does carry with it a temporary change in venue (and perhaps a temporary change in some of the "rules")

Wol Euler: actually, yes, I was just thinking that. It has many of the attributes of Retreats.

Wol Euler: the inward focus, the other-place-ness.

Wol Euler: the social concentration among people of like minds

Wol Euler: perhaps we need a bigger word, to include Retreats and SL

Bertrum Quan: what would that bigger word be?

--BELL--

Wol Euler: a kind of super-category, or an adjective perhaps, to elucidate the similarity that binds them.

Wol Euler: because they don't include each other.

Wol Euler: Retreats are not SL, but they are a step out of normal RL

Wol Euler: SL is not a retreat, but it is a step to the side of RL

Wol Euler: oh, sorry, my time is up. I need to get to work :(

Wol Euler: we'll continue this another day?

Bertrum Quan: Yes, that would be fun to find that word. Back to RL--Hope your Friday is productive and inspiring!

Wol Euler: goodnight, and thank you :)

Wol Euler: take care, bert

Bertrum Quan: You too, Wol.

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