2009.08.30 07:00 - Isadora Reports on Retreat

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

    Isadora Davidov: Hello Yakuzza.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey isa
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello adams
    Isadora Davidov: How are you?
    Isadora Davidov: Hi Adams
    Adams Rubble: Hello Isadora and Yakuzza :)
    Adams Rubble: nice to meet you isadora
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thx, fine :) , just finished my 2nd lunch :)
    Isadora Davidov: What time is it there?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
    Isadora Davidov: Hello Eliza
    Adams Rubble looking forward to first and second lunch :)
    Adams Rubble: maybe a third too (giggles)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Isadora, Adams, Yakuzza :)
    Isadora Davidov: Oh here its' really early...7:00AM
    --BELL--
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
    Adams Rubble: Helllo Pema :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, hi pema :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
    Isadora Davidov: Hi Pema:0
    Isadora Davidov: :)
    Pema Pera: Good morning, Eliza, Isadora, Adams, Yakuzza!
    Eliza Madrigal: Morning :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya :)
    Pema Pera: Good to see you again in SL, Isadora, for a chance!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
    Adams Rubble: Hello Bertram :)
    Isadora Davidov: Thanks...same here...I would like to swoop in like that!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Bert!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Bertram :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Isadora Davidov: Hello Gaya, hello Bertram
    Pema Pera: Adams, is it okay with you to let Isadora talk about her experiences during the retreat, during this session, as I suggested in my email yesterday?
    Adams Rubble: Of course Pema
    Isadora Begins her Report
    Isadora Davidov: Well, I can say that I met (RL) some quite distinguished individuals...and friendly too..all with highly distinct personalities...not to mention Pema's style of Being in this embodiment (2009)
    Isadora Davidov: THe place...Pema Osel LIng...,,Pema (a Tibetan pronunciation of skt. Padma = lotus). osel+Tib. light or sun's ray's, ling+ Tib "place"...and I think our little group in it;'s collective way expressed that vision...the lotus unfolding...and all rather sunny Beings (in the happy mood we were in to be all together, on "vacation" (except Pema and Genesis worked hard...and surely it was a lovely place
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Isadora Davidov: THe discussions were remarkably high level, in my experience...I think people felt free and unintimidated to express themselves honestly and openly
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Isadora Davidov: No one got "corrected" for being insufficiently "developed"
    Isadora Davidov: WE gathered for meals..had a lot of fun getting to know one another personally and then we all sat together for sessions , did some meditation type experiments and then had intense discussions afterwards
    --BELL--
    Isadora Davidov: Everyone was forthcoming and made sincere attempts to express the nature of their experience...even things that were very hard to put into worsds
    Isadora Davidov: So..I would highly reccommend it...one day...when you get the chance...meeting such people all together...if nothing else...is my idea of an ideal community
    Secrets of the Universe
    Isadora Davidov: ANd...I got to quiz Pema on the beginning of the cosmos...and he very well knows the secrets of the universe
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Isadora :) You give such a clear picture, especially that no one was corrected for not being more developed... it seems like that is something easy to impose on oneself too, unless the environment counters it
    Pema Pera: . . . :)
    Bertram Jacobus: which secrets are they ?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Isadora Davidov: Oh you know...before time was time
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, that
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. sounds nice ...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Isadora Davidov: the food was delicious and I ate a great deal...various men did dishes
    Isadora Davidov: I saw that with my own eyes
    Pema Pera: :)
    Isadora Davidov: But seriously..one thing we experimented with was..umm...experiencing the presence of appearance as a presentation of Being...oh..Ihave not said that right!
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Isadora Davidov: So int that sense...the relative truth of phenomena
    Pema Pera: almost: appreciating the presence of appearance as a presentation of Being
    Pema Pera: (or "by Being")
    Isadora Davidov: the interdependent arising due to causes and conditions...phenomena including thoughts, the sense objects...seemingly solid material objects..persons and our experiences, mental, physical, etc
    Isadora Davidov: There were discussions of dreams and dream-liuke waking experiences..
    Isadora Davidov: dream-like
    Isadora Davidov: We discussed levels of consciousness and questioned the nature of reality...you know, chit-chat
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Isadora Davidov: We discussed the arising of emotions and feelings that came over us...how it blended in and colored our experiences that Pema and others suggested
    Isadora Davidov: ANd the great mystery of how it is all combined within a person (so that you can hardly distinguish there things unless you are pretty careful)
    Isadora Davidov: these things...these various elements comprising the "person"
    Isadora Davidov: Going from a level of personal history, to "personality" , to ...usmm we.., you have to ask Pema...he's very good at verbalizing!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: But I like your 'verbalising' too Isadora.
    Eliza Madrigal: You seem to be too, Isadora :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Gaya
    Pema Pera: I'd say so!
    --BELL--
    Isadora Davidov: Oh, thank you...
    Bertram asks whether all this is possible without Pema and the discussion changes
    Bertram Jacobus: in my mind there is a nearly heretical question : how much of all this would be possible without pema ?
    Adams Rubble: I don;t beluieve that is a heretical question Bertram but it is irrelevant
    I reacted a little strongly to the question because I think the message is more important than the messenger. I feel just as strongly about questions like "what would Buddha think?" or "what would Christ think?" or Lao Tze or Mohammad or Steven Tainer or Tarthang Tulku or anyone else. To me it how we apply the things we have been taught. But I did not consider "Pema Seeing" as I was about to find out. Pema disappears just as we begin the discussion and returns a bit later to tell whow he sees it.
    Bertram Jacobus: i hope, this doesn´t hurt somebody, and i asked pema before IM because i was not brave enogh to ask it local, but he meant i could do it
    Isadora Davidov: In my limited experience I would say (aside from the amazing creation of the group, PaB etc..) the open, non-hierarchical style and his non-egotistical presence is significant...the language, topics and styel of epxperimentation is a modern re-casting of ancient concerns...expressed by many highly gifted spiritual teachers, philosophers throughout time, East and West
    Bertram Jacobus: so you see, at least for me, he´s a help
    Adams Rubble: If you mean to ask whether we are grateful Bertram, then I am sure the answer is yes
    Isadora Davidov: Oh I think he's a very big hellp...because he's extrememly open and non-judgemntal type of leader...I don't try to categorize his "level" of realization or any of that ...but he is an excellent catalyst and knows how to integrate groups,
    Eliza Madrigal nods. Of course Pema is a help :) I understand also what Adams is saying... Thankfully we begin 'from here :)
    Isadora Davidov: I think he's had enormous experience dealing diplomatically with some high-level thinkers..hwere you can run into some very big egos
    Isadora Davidov: where
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Pema :)
    Adams Rubble: wb Pema
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Isadora..yes certainly a unique and very rare/precious skill set :)
    Bertram Jacobus: no adams. that was not my question, sorry - and so my fears take place ... not to be understood with such a question and similar ...
    Isadora Davidov: And that makes a gigantic differenced...especially when you're dealing with "spiritual seekers
    Eliza Madrigal: WB Pema :)
    Isadora Davidov: who often have gigantic egos
    Pema Pera: (hotel internet connection not too reliable, it seems; good to be back :-)
    Adams Rubble: I just feel it is a distracting question
    Isadora Davidov: But group dynamics...kepping things open and positive is a signigicant skill for a leader or participant...so people don't get so "stepped on" emotionally so that they close up and withdraw
    Adams Rubble: A better question might be what are we doing with what is being given to us
    Gaya Ethaniel: We can worry about what to do if Pema runs away from us then anyway :P
    Adams Rubble giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder about the question you are asking though Bertram, whether it isn't really about our own responsibility levels and the extent to which we can easily project onto people... Is that what you mean?
    Pema Pera quietly reading Gaya's notecard about what I missed
    Pema Pera: funny, that SL dropped me when you started to talk about me :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :P
    A Teachable Moment about the Group
    Pema Pera: but I do think it's an interesting question that Bert asked -- certainly for me it is an ongoing concern
    Pema Pera: I'm happy to help and share where I can, but I also am eager to let the group grow in its own way, far far more broadly in its collective wisdom that what any of us could provide
    Adams Rubble: Funny that the discussion of the retreat should be reflect on the future of the group
    Pema Pera: and I must say that is one of the main things I learned during the retreat, for myself, about ways to let things go without trying to steer or "help" more than minimally necessary
    Bertram Jacobus: sorry eliza, that was the second fear i had : that i wouldn´t exactly understand all the following discussion and i try to react : it was simply meant as asked, constructive and a question, how much pema helps and how much would get lost without him for example
    Isadora Davidov: THis is a grand cultural experiment...we are from different cultures in some ways...and we gather and talk across great distances. so this
    Pema Pera: of course, Adams, a sign of a good retreat is that you want to come back for more :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: and to bring what richness was developed back?
    Global Goals
    Isadora Davidov: so a leader who leads "lightly" is highly valuable...and we are learning to lead (perhaps) in this style...which can be inclusive for a broad range of peopel..spread across distances and cultures
    Isadora Davidov: people...which is our global circumstance in this time of "liquid modernity"
    Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, sharing it all . . .
    --BELL--
    Pema Pera: In a way, you could say that humanity as a whole is now at a point where an individual practitioner gets sooner or later in her/his practice: realizing that the old ways of thinking don't work any longer, and feeling disoriented, no longer knowing where to stand, without any clue as to where to find handholds . . .
    Isadora Davidov: Integrating a diverse group is not so easy..even with those "familiar" with democracy
    Pema Pera: we are facing a planetary koan
    Pema Pera: how to sustain our life and that of the planet
    Pema Pera: without any concrete guidance from the past
    Isadora Davidov: We may have "hints", traditions...but never before this dire global challenge
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I am a bit lost ... was this a theme for a practice or a consensus that grew out of the meeting ... or ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting.. a question posed that can't be held with any of the tools we're so proud of and accustomed to.. can see that..hm
    Pema Pera: it came up from time to time
    Pema Pera: it was not central, but it did held people's interest
    Pema Pera: so in PaB we are turning traditional practice upside down
    Pema Pera: and globally we are dealing with the environment in ways we don't really understand
    Isadora Davidov: Several people who met have been working actively in RL with these problems: environment, leadership
    Pema Pera: interesting to see the two parallel ways of groping in the dark
    Isadora Davidov: healing
    Isadora Davidov: creative visions
    Gaya Ethaniel: Turning traditional practices upside down = groping in the dark?
    Pema Pera: so perhaps PaB could be a sandbox for learning to approach really important questions in a playful way, irreverent way even
    Pema Pera: by turning upside down, we have to grope in the dark, I mean
    Eliza Madrigal: which speaks directly to Bertram's question in a way... regarding 'teachers' and the extent to which we rely or project?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Pema Pera: because we don't have manuals to guide us
    Isadora Davidov: certianly a model for integrating groups while reducing agression
    Pema Pera: yes, related Eliza
    Pema gives a vision
    Pema Pera: I see a shift from individual to group-based
    Pema Pera: from feudal to democratic
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Pema Pera: from hierarchical to shared
    Eliza Madrigal: and yet there is a fine line there...
    Pema Pera: daring to swim in uncertainty as a group
    Eliza Madrigal: good to appreciate those who inspire and point
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: without panicking and appointing a leader
    Pema Pera: appreciating *everyone's* inspiring contributions
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Pema Pera: while also appreciating that some of us just happen to have more experience and perhaps are somewhat better initially at conveying ideas
    Pema Pera: but we all grow
    Pema Pera: together
    Isadora Davidov: a degree of leadership, or"wisdom" that others can recognize...but to the extent that an individual wants to integrate because they see that their very personal survival is at stake...it is so hard to reduce the intense level of self-grapsoing, self-protection, self-driven existence
    Isadora Davidov: and yet not behave in a totaly pack-like fashion...to destroy the prey or enemy
    Pema Pera: so I think Bertram's question set in motion an important train of thought here, thank you, Bert!
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. Once can acknoledge/respect someone else without necessarily putting that person on pedestal.
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Gaya
    Pema Pera: "holding things open", "not believing and not disbelieving" is at the core of PaB -- and rather scary at first; so appointing a leader or council is typically the way to avoid that kind of collective responsibility
    Isadora Davidov: But we can see historically the devastating power of the emergence of a strong leader
    Gaya Ethaniel: Glad you had a successful retreat, thank you. Enjoy your day :)
    Pema Pera: Stim made a very interesting point: that what we are doing in PaB is actually quite close to very early Buddhism, the first few generations after the Buddha lived.
    Adams Rubble: bye Gaya :)
    Bertram Jacobus: you too gaya
    Pema Pera: Bye Gaya!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Gaya :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Some of us learning more traditional means along side/overlapped with PaB I think have strong questions in this area... finding balance or not seeking it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye gaya
    Pema Pera: no hierarchy then
    Isadora Davidov: Goodbye Gaya
    --BELL--
    Pema Pera: can you say more, Eliza?
    Isadora Davidov: But some collective acknowledge of a common purpose...of sorts?
    Eliza Madrigal: Difficult actually, but there is a certainly a traditional model of teachers, and specific guidence seems vital
    I bring up the SL Rtreat and try to explain how we too got into the subject of "letting go" on a deeper level.
    Adams Rubble: I am very appreciative of the role you have played in bronging us together, challenging us, and guiding us with love and care Pema but alo the group functioned the past five days without a leader which is evidence that things are in motion. Eliza and I spent five and a half evenings in our own retreat here in SL which I found very moving
    Isadora Davidov: Oh...remarkable..
    Pema Pera: yes, I'd love to hear more about that Adams!
    Pema Pera: that was such a nice gesture . . . .
    Adams Rubble: Being away from the log we were able to talk about "letting go" in a very personal way
    Isadora Davidov: Oh dear...I have to get ready to drive a long distance (alone!)...so regretfully...Goodbye..
    Eliza Madrigal: yes it was a lovely gesture... it felt very comforting
    Pema Pera: bye Isadora, thank you for your report!!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Isadora, thank you so much!
    Adams Rubble: bye Isadora :)
    Bertram Jacobus: bye isadora and thanks a lot
    Adams Rubble: thanks for the report
    Isadora Davidov: Yes....and goodbye see you seeon!
    Isadora Davidov: soon!
    Pema Pera: did you have a mix of practice and discussions?
    Adams Rubble: Paradise and SophiaSharon also joined us for part of the time
    Eliza Madrigal: We held the idea... letting go...and each day it took on different aspects
    Eliza Madrigal: funny to hold letting go
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Adams Rubble: We started out more meditative and discussed more as we went along but we mixed that with the Zen Rtereat zazen
    Adams Rubble: so we meditated there
    Adams Rubble: I think it would be useful to make some kind of permanent setup for that
    Pema Pera: letting go more and more of your ideas of letting go can be . . . a wonderful progression!
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Shedding
    Pema Pera: very interesting idea, Adams
    Pema Pera: or of course we could designate some of the PaB sessions for that
    Adams Rubble: you mean no logs?
    Pema Pera: we have 28 every week, so why not use some of those?
    Pema Pera: ah, okay, the log aspect is different of course
    Pema Pera: how important did it feel, not to have logs?
    Adams Rubble: it too would be nice to just have a place to go at a personally convenient time
    Pema Pera: yes
    Adams Rubble: I felt it was very importaht Pema
    Adams Rubble: for me anyway
    Eliza Madrigal: There was a subtle difference at some point... Permission, perhaps?
    Pema Pera: you used the Zen Retreat outdoor place?
    Adams Rubble: and I have been pretty open here
    Pema Pera: yes, I can see that, Adams, good point
    Adams Rubble: no I rezzed some cushions and tress in the PaB Retreat Center in Bieup
    Pema Pera: ah, very nice to see that used!
    Pema Pera: Is that the first time it is used?
    Adams Rubble: It was used temporarilyy for an Art History workshop for a temprary exhibition/discussion
    Pema Pera: I think it is a very good idea to keep it open permanently, as a more informal meeting place
    Pema Pera: and we can individually announce through the email group when we go there
    Pema Pera: or through the PaB SL group . . . if that would not get too noisy, with too many group's IMs . . . just an idea
    Adams Rubble: my building skills aren't the best so it is rough cut indeed :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) It is lovely, Adams... very nice trees especially
    Adams Rubble: spring, summer and fall all together (giggles)
    Adams Rubble: but somehow that was nice :)
    Eliza Madrigal: seems appropriate
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Pema Pera: I will have to leave in a few minutes, but perhaps we can briefly hop over there, to have a look?
    Adams Rubble: sounds nice
    Pema Pera: who would like to come with us?

    We all tp'd to the site in Bieup where the disucssion continued. 

    Pema Pera: nice place, Adams!
    Pema Pera: no fire in the middle?
    Adams Rubble: It was nice when we thhought of you all out there
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol. sry :o)
    Pema Pera: glad to hear that, Adams!
    Adams Rubble: the pillows were reminding me of sheep in a pasture :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    I start making a point about the chaat logs and Pema thinks I am talking about the logs in the fire he rezzed in the moddle of the circle

    Adams Rubble: I think one problem with the logs, which overall are a great thing, is sometimes we start to talk to the microphone
    Adams Rubble: also we can't talk about the realy personal things
    Bertram Jacobus: some people may feel comfortable with that, some less
    Adams Rubble: yes Bert
    Pema Pera: sorry, why can't we talk about the really personal things, Adams?
    Adams Rubble: there are many things we would prefer not to have printed on the wiki
    Pema Pera: ah, but here it is okay, right?
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm a little conflicted about the logs, because being able to read them gives me continuity and yet, yes, there is value to having another layer like this :)
    Pema Pera: ah, the logs as in wiki logs -- I thought the burning logs, hahahaha
    Adams Rubble: Yes, Eliza, this as a supplement
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: I was wondering how they interfered with voice
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: since they didn't seem to make noise.....
    Adams Rubble: we used text chat this week
    Adams Rubble: just no wiki
    Pema Pera: yes, I think it is an excellent idea to have off-time sessions, spontaneously, without logging
    Adams Rubble: talking about "letting go" can get very personal
    Adams Rubble: especially when deep things start to move
    Pema Pera: when we get more and more guardians, it is possible that we'll have an (almost) constant present here
    Pema Pera: forming a kind of . . . what? . . . monastery? . . . neighborhood cafe? . . . community park?
    Adams Rubble: Let me add something else
    Eliza Madrigal: for me would be a monastery...for others a cafe...hehe
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: we can talk personally many places but this week this spot allowed us to get away and focus on something specific
    Pema Pera: Belgian trappist monasteries do brew very good beer, Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Pema Pera: yes, Adams, I can see that!
    Pema Pera: (and I have to leave in two minutes)
    Adams Rubble: Good to have you back Pema :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Good to see you Pema, yes
    Pema Pera: one other option is to add bits and pieces of the chats here to a session, if everyone agrees, occasionally
    Bertram Jacobus: have a nice time pema and ty
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good day pema
    Pema Pera: for example, what we just said here could be appended to the session we just came from
    Pema Pera: to share with our readers our further thoughts about using this place, don't you think?
    Adams Rubble: yes, this one could :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure...if agreed upon then...
    Pema Pera: but by default most wont
    Pema Pera: it's fine with me
    Adams Rubble nods
    Eliza Madrigal: a bit like Maxine's workshop, which isn't logged
    Pema Pera: ah, yes
    Adams Rubble: I am the GOC so I am OK with it :)
    Eliza Madrigal: but shared at times
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and it´s always possible to ask the guardian to delete the special sentences
    Pema Pera: see you soon again!
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or just stop logging
    Pema Pera: yes, or to delete it yourself, Yak
    Eliza Madrigal: True, ya...or take them out oneself :)
    Adams Rubble: yes, it still felt different here this week
    Pema Pera: hehe, yes
    Pema Pera: bye for now
    Pema Pera: we all have access to the wiki
    Adams Rubble: can't explain it all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye
    Adams Rubble: bye
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Adams :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just fear that seprate groups could be created
    Eliza Madrigal: yes there is a little concern there Ya
    AuraKyo Insoo is Online
    Eliza Madrigal: but this being a pab site....
    Eliza Madrigal: this also allows for it to be part of the whole
    Eliza Madrigal: rather than splinterig
    Eliza Madrigal: *splintering
    Adams Rubble: I think that has happened along the way Yakuzza and they last for a while and then idsappear
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, sometimes people have something they want to say...
    Eliza Madrigal: and not on the record
    Adams Rubble: we find people searching for things we are searching for
    Adams Rubble: running parallel with us
    Eliza Madrigal: and they leave or 'retreat' from pab without making that known....
    Adams Rubble: then we go in doifferent directions and that disappears
    Adams Rubble: I don't think that is a threat to the group
    Adams Rubble: It may make it stronger
    Eliza Madrigal: any place really... so the thing would maybe to have a place, outside of session times...
    Eliza Madrigal: where the same spirit of openness
    Eliza Madrigal: and good will pervades
    Adams Rubble: This too is a supplement...takes place in off PaB hours
    Adams Rubble: not a substitute
    Eliza Madrigal: AND, ultimately it is our own choice to nurture it in the same way....
    Adams Rubble: I had a thought this morning

    I share a bit of what is happening to me as a result

    Adams Rubble: In some way I feel I am at the end of a caterpiullar stage
    Adams Rubble: and just beginning to go off and become a pupa
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Adams Rubble: spinning my little cocoon or whatever it is called
    Adams Rubble: Eliza talks of level and this is on some level :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I love that..... you haven't 'arrived' but you see the process unfolding
    Adams Rubble: yes, a withdrawing process
    Eliza Madrigal: :) And your friends support you in that....
    Eliza Madrigal: won't try to peel at the cocoon
    Adams Rubble: thanks Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: so yes, layers of unfolding
    Adams Rubble: Knew you would like the layers Eliza. hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: sounds like Heaven : )
    Adams Rubble pokes Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: sheer layers....
    Eliza Madrigal: important to be able to see through them
    Bertram Jacobus: I'll leave - very tired ... ty all for all ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bertram :)
    Adams Rubble: byer Bert :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Good to see you
    Adams Rubble: bye, that is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bert
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    Bertram Jacobus: ty . friendly people ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i also gonna leave
    Adams Rubble: bye Yak :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye yakuzza :) Glad you guys have the lm now
    Bertram Jacobus: so tired ...


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