2009.09.17 07:00 - Trungpa

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.

     

     

    Pema Pera: Hi Gen!

    Pema Pera: sorry to drop in so late

    Pema Pera: but glad you're still here!

    genesis Zhangsun: yeah I was doing some hair shopping

    genesis Zhangsun: needed a new look

    Pema Pera: :-)

    Pema Pera: Being here in Tokyo, I'm spending quite a bit of time on subways, and I have been using that to read in Diana Mukpo's book, her autobiographical story about her life with Trungpa, her husband

    genesis Zhangsun: wonderful well as you know I have also been reading her book

    Pema Pera: I've been enjoying it very much; I know you've been reading it too, right?

    Pema Pera: yes

    Pema Pera: it gives such a human view of the man

    Pema Pera: and at the same time also highlights how special he was

    Pema Pera: hi Yak!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey there

    genesis Zhangsun: HI Yak

    Yakuzza Lethecus: don't get interrupted

    Pema Pera: we were just talking about Trungpa, and the book his wife wrote about her life with him

    Pema Pera: a rare chance to get a sense of a great teacher's off-stage life

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fox

    Fox Monacular: Hello everyone

    Pema Pera: the way she writes is both enormously respectful and also very honest, as far as I can judge

    Pema Pera: Hi Fox!

    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Fox

    --BELL--

    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh trungpa is a just a title ?

    Pema Pera: Both a name and a title

    genesis Zhangsun: Yes I am also struck by the combination of respect and honesty

    Pema Pera: strictly speaking a title, like "Dalai Lama" is a title -- but people use it to refer to the particular person that he was

    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, i just read 11th trungpa tulku

    genesis Zhangsun: what an incredibly unique experience, to have married a tibetan lama and not just any tibetan lama but a crazy wisdom teacher like Trungpa

    genesis Zhangsun: and married at the age of 16!

    genesis Zhangsun: and becoming a mother at 17

    Fox Monacular: tibetan lamas can marry?

    genesis Zhangsun: yes Fox they can though not all do

    genesis Zhangsun: from what I understand within some lineages it is expected

    Fox Monacular: wow, that's totally new for me

    genesis Zhangsun: my impression is that after a certain point in their spiritual training, marriage isn't something which would threaten progress or stability in the path

    genesis Zhangsun: what is your understanding Pema

    Fox Monacular: Ill log out and log back in, sl is incredibly slow for me righr now

    Pema Pera: yes, it depends on the school of Tibetan Buddhism

    Pema Pera: Gelukpas, like the Dalai Lama, don't marry

    Pema Pera: Nyingmapas often do

    Pema Pera: Japanese zen teachers often, but not always, marry -- there are many different customs in Buddhism

    Fox Monacular: sorry about that

    Pema Pera: np Fox :)

    Pema Pera: in any case, the book is both awe-inspiring and hilarious in many places

    genesis Zhangsun: (by the way very cool av Fox I recognized it immediately, one of my favorite films)

    Fox Monacular: :)

    Fox Monacular: nice to finally meet you genesis

    genesis Zhangsun: likewise

    genesis Zhangsun: yes Pema I am amazed by how Diana stayed so grounded through it all

    Fox Monacular: what is the book you are talking about?

    Pema Pera: I sent you an IM, Fox

    Pema Pera: did you not see it?

    Pema Pera: Draong Thunder is the title

    genesis Zhangsun: which seemed to suggest in a way that she wasn't the one "grounding" herself but rather the entire situation contained groundedness

    Pema Pera: by Diana Mukpo

    Fox Monacular: no :( sorry my sl is bugging...

    Fox Monacular: actually I saw you sent me an IM, and as I tried to open it it just disappeared....

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i never thought that buddists are also infected by heavy drinking

    Pema Pera: yes, Trungpa and she seemed to ground each other quite well, and mutually acknowledged that too

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i thought they are very healty

    Yakuzza Lethecus: or live very heathy

    genesis Zhangsun: not only that Pema but the situation, their destiny to bring buddhism to the west grounded the situation

    Pema Pera: there are many different types, Yak . . .

    Pema Pera: oh yes, it is all part of a much larger context, for sure

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don't know much about buddism, i only know my prejudices and like to listen about the different subtypes like i do right now

    Pema Pera: Actually, Diana addressed the heavy drinking of Trungpa too in her book

    Pema Pera: she really gives the impression of not hiding anything

    Pema Pera: and if anything, reading the book leaves you with an impression that it is impossible to judge people like Trungpa

    --BELL--

    Pema Pera: we can certainly appreciate what he has brought and shared with others; and beyond that, I certainly don't want to judge -- nor do I want to automatically claim that all he did was okay either. He was a very complex person, that much is clear.

    genesis Zhangsun: excuse me but I have to get going!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye genesis

    Pema Pera: bye Gen!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you met him pema ?

    Pema Pera: no, I didn't

    genesis Zhangsun: bye!

    genesis Zhangsun: nice meeting you again Fox

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just look through his wikipedia entry

    Pema Pera: But I've been quite inspired by some of his books

    Yakuzza Lethecus: he seems to be very controversial

    Fox Monacular: I just realized I read one of his books

    Fox Monacular: Shambhala the path of the warrior

    Pema Pera: ah yes, that was an approach he took to convey the core ideas of Buddhism without the usual religious/cultural packaging

    Pema Pera: or at least some of the core ideas

    Fox Monacular: yes, and it was also based on pre-buddhist philosophy

    Pema Pera: yes

    Pema Pera: as for him being controversial, he certainly was, given his totally nonconventional approach

    Fox Monacular: SL is incredibly slolw for me today, I guess I'll just have to go too...

    Pema Pera: bye Fox!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye fox

    Fox Monacular: thanks for the conversation, I will now go read more of his books

    Pema Pera: In fact, I should go too -- it is past midnight here in Japan

    Pema Pera: bye Yakuzza!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, have a healty sleep

    Pema Pera: thank you!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: sry for interrupting the conversation

    Pema Pera: oh not at all !

    Pema Pera: we all contributed, you too :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's interesting for me to hear about buddism but i really read alot in the wikipedia

    Yakuzza Lethecus: since i don't understand so many terms right away

    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night

    Yakuzza Lethecus: like wu wei...

    Pema Pera: wikipedia is a good way to get a quick start -- but then it's good to go beyond that too, of course.

    Pema Pera: bye for now!

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