2009.09.21 01:00 - A New Moon

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya Ethaniel. The comments are by Gaya Ethaniel.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello sophia :)
    sophia Placebo: hello gaya:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?

    --BELL--

    sophia Placebo: im good ty , yorself ?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good thanks :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I like your AO.
    sophia Placebo: ty ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    sophia Placebo: flowrish fountine
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's the creator?
    sophia Placebo: oops no thats the fountine
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's unusual to see you at this hour.
    sophia Placebo: yes it is a holiday here , im not at work
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :) Ramadan ends today?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty :)
    sophia Placebo: yes , yesterday , today is the next month !
    sophia Placebo: yw
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... tell me how it has been this year? How do you feel?
    sophia Placebo: hunger thrist busey and busey !
    Gaya Ethaniel: I heard thirst is very hard to endure.
    sophia Placebo: conflicts here and there and lots of truly hungry people under fire and very hard situations around the world
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    sophia Placebo: not really , your body can adapt very well
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok
    Gaya Ethaniel: I want to know why do Muslims fast during Ramadan? I don't know much about it.
    sophia Placebo: it is all a purification type of worship
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :) [Ramadan ended yesterday so we are talking about it.]
    Eliza Madrigal: Great, am interested to hear too :)
    sophia Placebo: hi eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi again Sophia :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (I really like bumping into people wandering the village)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you feel purified?
    sophia Placebo: you see, in each one heart there is a small white dot , if you keep your heart pure , you would can see the right path , if not you would be lost
    sophia Placebo: i feel i grow up :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
    sophia Placebo: some struggles are no more struggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's a difficult practice to commit I think.
    Eliza Madrigal: oh a very wonderful thing sophia, to shed struggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... so one learns not to struggle, that's great.
    sophia Placebo: no urge to tell lies nor to tell bad things in people back nor to be angry nor to shout at someone
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: How does the fasting do that ... I mean not wanting to lie etc?
    sophia Placebo: it is the patience rule : with each hardship come the eas
    Eliza Madrigal: I was listenining to two ladies in a store, so excited to break fasting this week... didn't realize one could choose the end date
    sophia Placebo: oh no one cant , it is about the moon sighting dilemma
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods ... I bet you need patience during Ramadan >.<
    sophia Placebo: the moon astronomically was born Sunday but the sighting differs from part to part of the world
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, that's interesting. Glad I mentioned it :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    sophia Placebo: and some scholars say that telescope is valid other say it must be by naked eye
    Gaya Ethaniel: New Moon day was Sunday here.
    sophia Placebo: and some say if it is seen in one country it is enough for all countries others dont

    --BELL--

    sophia Placebo: so you see , one moon many Eids !
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes :) So one could even extend the holiday if they like .. in theory
    sophia Placebo: Eid as holy day is the first day you break your fast in
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's today right so the public holiday?
    sophia Placebo: but difrent countries give other extra days as holidays
    sophia Placebo: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Years ago as a Christian I fasted, I think it is a surprising thing... when one restrains themselves they often think differently
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah I get it :)
    sophia Placebo: actually it was yesterday according to half of us and today for the other half !
    Gaya Ethaniel: heh :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks about fasting ... patience ... and being good.
    sophia Placebo: true eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't hear much about fasting in Buddhist circles so far... Hm
    Gaya Ethaniel: No but people fast time to time for health reasons in Korea.
    sophia Placebo: interesting
    Gaya Ethaniel: Buddha fasted and rejected the practice I think ... maybe that's why. Middle way etc.
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, the extreme aestetic
    Eliza Madrigal: but the entire practice? Maybe when one eats so little regularly...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: thinking aloud :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, buddha doesn't seem to have eaten little regularly
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    sophia Placebo: the hard part of fasting is not the eating and drinking but the moral rules
    Gaya Ethaniel: You have moral rules that go with Ramadan?
    sophia Placebo: you gotta do no wrong thing otherwise your fasting is rewarded with nothing except your thrist and hunger
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
    sophia Placebo: the usual moral rules but in ramadan you can ruin your fast
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, I see, yes wow
    Gaya Ethaniel: Are people generally nicer then?
    sophia Placebo: so if you have the habit of lieing lol you have a big trouble during ramadan
    sophia Placebo: they try to , and they are reminded to be during ramadan
    Gaya Ethaniel giggles.
    Gaya Ethaniel: How does this reminder work?
    sophia Placebo: directly ! " dont lie , shame on you you lie in ramadan " like that
    Eliza Madrigal thinks of what it was like to pay attention to 'no intoxication', 'no killing' for a few weeks... and to realize how often one doesn't see their own behavior/thinking
    Gaya Ethaniel: People point things out?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    sophia Placebo: heh yes it is not like you have as bad thing , it is considered natural here
    Gaya Ethaniel: People just say these things to you out of blue?
    sophia Placebo: but not in front of other people , privacy count
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so dignity :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose within one's community everyone is in the same boat...
    Eliza Madrigal: so everyone watching for the other... more in that spirit?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think this is a kind of thing that often happens in close communities heheheh
    sophia Placebo: no if you lie frankly , one would remind you cause you are in ramadan , ramadan considered holy month
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, so treading very carefully then, all month
    Eliza Madrigal: And now? More sensitive?
    sophia Placebo: but not like in the street not btw strangers , usually btw poepel whom you know or work with
    Gaya Ethaniel: One has to know the other well enough to spot lying so that makes sense.
    sophia Placebo: whats more sensitive ?
    Eliza Madrigal: I imagine that emerging from a season like this, one is more sensitive to their behavior, re lying, etc

    --BELL--

    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, I would imagine the awareness level would be higher?
    sophia Placebo: much higher , as if it is only forbidden during ramadan
    Eliza Madrigal: What you said about your struggles being gone, was that about behaviors you felt you were struggling with?
    sophia Placebo: I guess no one wants to sacrifice his long days of hunger for a word
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahh, good point :)
    Eliza Madrigal hopes you don't mind all the questions :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    sophia Placebo: you adapt this habit of how to manage situations without lying , shouting and talking badly about people in their absence
    sophia Placebo: not at all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so having to rule out that option shows you other ways :)
    sophia Placebo: so next ramadan you wouldnt lose your fasting for a minite of anger or frustration
    Eliza Madrigal: Ooo no frustration?
    Eliza Madrigal: What about worry?
    sophia Placebo: nop!
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow ...
    sophia Placebo: worry hmm
    sophia Placebo: depends
    sophia Placebo: it is the harmful things you gotta stop
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks ... about worry.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I used to worry a lot ...
    sophia Placebo: desperation is generally forbidden morally , but worry is not but one is encouraged to be stronger than to let a worry eat him
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh I see
    Gaya Ethaniel: In a way, it's not really kind to oneself if worry too much.
    sophia Placebo: true
    Eliza Madrigal: that sprung to mind because I'm up at 4:38 my time..
    Eliza Madrigal: and I feel like sometimes one is allowed to worry...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes of course :)
    Eliza Madrigal: but in general I'm not a big worrier...
    Gaya Ethaniel: And don't feel bad about having worries ... that's counter-productive.
    Eliza Madrigal: :) True
    Gaya Ethaniel: What helped me was being living more in presence and accepting uncertainty more.
    Gaya Ethaniel: But some rare days, I can't sleep well for no apparent reasons then I just accept that too.
    sophia Placebo: yes accepting
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes turbulence is good
    Gaya Ethaniel: Your mind must be working hard at something :)
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes a way to stir things up and maybe they begin to move apart... or soften... or... Hmm
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    sophia Placebo: gotta leave , nice to see you both !
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sophia, so good to see you!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day off sophia :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice surprise :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been thinking about the density of obstacles... and how one thing is so easy to see through...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: other things so obscured
    Gaya Ethaniel: These obstacles are now or in the future?
    Eliza Madrigal: funny, because years ago I might have fasted when I felt like this...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Really?
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... last year I had a period of intense 'working'. I didn't have to eat or sleep much.
    Eliza Madrigal: And did you feel like you were in a different body almost?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Quite energetic strangely.

    --BELL--

    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    Gaya Ethaniel: I could only eat light and bland things, it was a strange experience. My mind was very 'noisy' and I just had to let it work things out.
    Eliza Madrigal nods... just let it run its course...
    Eliza Madrigal: see what is going on after ...hahh
    Gaya Ethaniel: Initially I tried to 'clam' myself and that made it more difficult.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: clam?
    Gaya Ethaniel: calm :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: I would have gotten that hours ago
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: I guess I worried what was up.
    Gaya Ethaniel: And couldn't pin down reasons etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, I feel a little like that...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... ok
    Eliza Madrigal: I've felt similar before and it turned out to be a good thing
    Eliza Madrigal: but there are no formulas :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: The best I can describe is 'unhinged'
    Gaya Ethaniel: I see ...
    Eliza Madrigal: that's been a few days
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: but oh how I love my sleep :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and last night too... I slept but didn't experience it like sleep
    Gaya Ethaniel: In what way?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hard to describe, but I wasn't awake and wasn't dreaming, and felt when I woke up, like I'd been up all night
    Eliza Madrigal: though I didn't feel restless as I was in bed
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...

    During WoK homework meeting yesterday, we spent most of our time learning to use Skype conference calls correctly:

    Eliza Madrigal: Anything you wanted to talk about yesterday that we didn't get to?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Was there anything you wanted to talk about yesterday?
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks meanwhile ...
    Eliza Madrigal: Not really.... the thing I mentioned before about obstacles.. but I think that is just something that comes clear with time
    Eliza Madrigal: it seems to have to do with karma... and how deeply patterns become ingrained
    Eliza Madrigal: and when they get all tangled up with other patterns...heh
    Gaya Ethaniel: Was it you who said something about not seeing things as obstacles?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think you've been working on this for a while now right?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Crab dream and so on ...
    Eliza Madrigal: I've have had several big breakthroughs
    Eliza Madrigal: and daily now, I see them occuring spontaneously...
    Eliza Madrigal: can see through things differently now
    Eliza Madrigal: and then there are things that hm....
    Gaya Ethaniel listens.

    --BELL--

    Eliza Madrigal: :) I sense and know that when there is ready to be movement, in a sense there will be...
    Gaya Ethaniel nods :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and yet sometimes I wonder if I'm not proactive enough... too passive, when it comes to things in my own life
    Eliza Madrigal: which is tangled with others
    Gaya Ethaniel: What do you mean by 'passive' here? You mean you're not engaging? But one has to know one's limit also.
    Eliza Madrigal: I have to get through concerns about what is best for four other people before I can begin to see, sometimes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Begin to see you, you mean?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes...maybe
    Gaya Ethaniel: What's good for you is good for the other people too ... or not?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, long term yes
    Eliza Madrigal: and also, who knows :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think finding 'naturalness' could be helpful ... we should grill Stim on it.
    Eliza Madrigal: Naturalness...yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: Poor Stim ... :)
    Eliza Madrigal: that is it... that in so many areas I see a shift and things unfold naturally....
    Eliza Madrigal: so resting and trusting seems key
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think you're doing well :)
    Eliza Madrigal: but maybe things float to the surface when they are ready
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think so.
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you, and yes, Stim is patient with us :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I am looking forward to seeing what he posts for Dao
    Gaya Ethaniel: Me too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: read the log over today
    Gaya Ethaniel: Wonder what he will talk about this week.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, did I tell you that I hadn't even seen the ethics page until you mentioned that?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Ethics page?
    Eliza Madrigal: I was on the most recent page of Stim's lectures...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: but you mentioned ethics...
    Eliza Madrigal: so I pushed another button...have been enjoying them this week
    Gaya Ethaniel: I started with ethics classes :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: What stood out for you?
    Eliza Madrigal: What is funny... is that I just listened to one where they were talking about basically
    Eliza Madrigal: the kind of experiences I've been having with people...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Which one?
    Eliza Madrigal: where I'll be bolder than usual, etc. Hm... offhand I couldn't tell you...
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... something about being bold? I don't recall ... it's interesting how something stand out for some people while others not.
    Eliza Madrigal: And then Eos and Fox and I talked one night about lectures on ethics by Varela.... about coming from 'being'
    Eliza Madrigal: Gaya, yes that is so true
    Eliza Madrigal: much less one thing stands out, then the next day it is a whole new lecture
    Eliza Madrigal: and you think 'where was I yesterday?"
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Gaya Ethaniel: Francisco Javier Varela Garcìa?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I know :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I think so... only know Francisco Varela
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: The sessions I was listening to, btw, seem to be March
    Gaya Ethaniel: What does he mean by 'coming from being'?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ty :) I will look up today.
    Eliza Madrigal: rather than a place of rules... embodying...I suppose
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: Others could do justice :) I'm just like an excited kid... Oh Look there, and there
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think it's also related to being flexible ... see each situation freshly ... shift, move around and see what fits.
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods...yes spontaneity?
    Eliza Madrigal: knowing is there...and situations activate it...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes in a way let go of rules ... may feel a bit uncertain I guess.
    Eliza Madrigal nods... maybe even unhinged :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: If we want to learn not to behave out of habits, I guess this is inevitable ... the learning process.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal nods

    --BELL--

    Eliza Madrigal: Do you think you feel more settled than a year ago, or more uncertain?
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Because I struggle less, such period is shorter but the intensity varies rather than better or worse.
    Eliza Madrigal: hm
    Gaya Ethaniel: I have many bundles that I'm looking into :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Moon!
    Eliza Madrigal: so you get through it 'faster' in a way... ah bundles
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Moon :))
    Moon Fargis: hi gaya and eliza ^
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you! A rare treat for me
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes the initial period of worries about 'what is up with me?' or 'why can't I sleep' etc. I don't do those. I used to :(
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, maybe I'll settle... I do have a trust for the process though...
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: which I suppose is a deeper undercurrent

    Moon joins us and suddenly we find ourselves in a forest filled with flowers. I share taiyaki with the friends. This Japanese fish shaped hot snack was introduced to Korea during 1930s. Yam yam! And yes Moon, traditionally these are filled with sweet beans.

    21.09.09.png


    Eliza Madrigal smiles at the flowers and forest.. another rare treat :)
    Moon Fargis: n_n
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: How are you Moon?
    Moon Fargis: ahhh im well:) just realized that I forgot to enter my address in the pab listener
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh nice
    Moon Fargis: WHEE thanks gaya ^^
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: yw :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh wow... it is actually eaten
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Moon Fargis: ^_^ *Nahm Nahm Nahm!* ^_^
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel takes a snap.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Suspension
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I've been doing wall gazing after listening to Stim's classes recently.
    Moon Fargis: hmm zazen ?
    Eliza Madrigal: have you? What has that been like?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Before I didn't sit in front of a wall as such.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I rarely do
    Gaya Ethaniel: I prefer the wall :)
    Eliza Madrigal: neat... how so?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure yet ... I used to sit in front of a little 'shrine' I made.
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you usually meditate with eyes open before?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe it's 'simpler'? Wall having much less visual information? Not sure yet.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Eyes half open yes.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: If I don't sit for a few days, I feel it >.<
    Eliza Madrigal: The last time I sat that way I thought it was interesting...like the wall becomes an open field in a way... but then I thought I was projecting
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh me too definitely
    Gaya Ethaniel: So even for 5 mins, I try to do each day ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you sit in front of a wall or something else Moon?
    Moon Fargis: well in traditional soto zen people always sit against a wall
    Moon Fargis: but in fact
    Moon Fargis: you always sit in front of a wall
    Moon Fargis: its just different how far the wall is away
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you change the distance or?
    Moon Fargis: hmm no i sit where i sit cus its the best place in my room to sit ^^ if i sit in front of a wall or not doesn't really matter

    --BELL--

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Unfortunately I must go ... enjoyed talking to you both :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Gaya , you too!
    Gaya Ethaniel waves.
    Moon Fargis: aahh bye gaya ^^/
    Eliza Madrigal waves
    Eliza Madrigal: Fun to be up at this hour now... feel like I'm getting away with something
    Moon Fargis: ^^ how late is it for you ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Now I should say early....
    Eliza Madrigal: 5:32
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been on since about 3:30 :)
    Moon Fargis: hmhmmm couldnt sleep ?
    Moon Fargis: or was just awake
    Eliza Madrigal: yes exactly...well both :)
    Moon Fargis: ah i know that
    Eliza Madrigal: restless energy I guess... puzzles and such
    Moon Fargis: take care at 9-10 then you will get tired again
    Eliza Madrigal: yes.... after I drive the kids to school I will possibly nap
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Fun to see you though, as always
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Eliza Madrigal: ^^
    Moon Fargis: hmmm this food made me levitate
    Moon Fargis: where there some beans in ?:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Is that what did it... I was floating before too... must be
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: magical SL food
    Eliza Madrigal: will help keep our avs energized
    Moon Fargis: hehe ahh eliza i got a new sim finished
    Eliza Madrigal: I saw that... have wanted to see....
    Moon Fargis: aah^^
    Eliza Madrigal: I bet it is lovely...everything you work on is, Moon
    Moon Fargis: thanks :)
    Eliza Madrigal: everything's been changing around here :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Let me make sure I have a landmark...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, read my mind
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks
    Moon Fargis: :) ok ill go there now and fix something up i forgot
    Moon Fargis: see you soon maybe ^^/
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay... I'll make a point of visiting today to look around :)
    Moon Fargis: great ^^
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Moon :) Lovely day

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    124.11 kB18:13, 9 Apr 2010Gaya EthanielActions
    Viewing 3 of 3 comments: view all
    Originally written on 16:33, 21 Sep 2009
    Oh My Goodness who is that crazy person talking/typing so much. Someone should have sent her to bed. Hah :)
    Posted 11:13, 9 Apr 2010
    Originally written on 21:35, 21 Sep 2009
    Sorry, I enjoyed her company too much to send her off to bed ... was selfish of me :)
    Posted 11:13, 9 Apr 2010
    Originally written on 23:04, 21 Sep 2009
    Ah, thanks for that Gaya! Hugs!
    Posted 11:13, 9 Apr 2010
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