2009.10.10 01:00 - East/West

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

    Bertram Jacobus: helllo scath ! ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: good morning :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning, Bertram, yakuzza!
    Bertram Jacobus: how are you this morning scath ? :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: fine thank you, and you?
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s ok. i have a loot to do these days and strong needs to relax. weekends nearly are not enough for it, but "it´s ok" - ty :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, weekwnds never seem long enough:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: weekends*
    Bertram Jacobus: exactly
    Bertram Jacobus: yesterday i met a great western lama . who often speaks to audiences from some 100 people . but yesterday we were only 10 ... :-))
    Scathach Rhiadra: oh, and who was that , may I ask?
    Bertram Jacobus: i don´t think, that she is known outside the "dhagpo kagyü mandala" - only perhaps in some ole centers ... she is simply called "lama walli"
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, thank you:)
    Bertram Jacobus: and she did more then 12 years retreat under the guidance of gendune rinpoche ... with a partner (!) - lama henrik
    Bertram Jacobus: and lama henrik is for me very important. in a way "my lama" also - although i did not meet him very often ... very nice relation ...
    Bertram Jacobus: do you know the story of milarepa scath ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I have heard the story, and read some of his poetry of dohas
    Bertram Jacobus: ah okay ... i wanted to mention, how he heard first the name of his most important teacher, marpa and how he at once had very strong feelings about him and knew "he is it" . not so intense, but similar is my feeling with henrik ...
    Bertram Jacobus: first time*
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah:)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Bertram Jacobus: and yesterday i got a impression what is meant with the "no reality" of samsarian aspects (!) - lama walli explained, that thoughts, for example, would not be necessairy so impressing, but transparent. a moment, where to me it was understandable after having heard that already at least a few 10 times ...
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: so, has anybody any topic they would like to discuss?
    Bertram Jacobus: perhaps the reality or the being not real of phenomenons - how is that for you ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: :) big toic, but great
    Scathach Rhiadra: yopic*
    Bertram Jacobus: big, but great - sounds funny (!) :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, must learn how to type, topic*
    Bertram Jacobus: np ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: one nice thing in chats is to summarize topics, to work out the essences
    Scathach Rhiadra listens
    Bertram Jacobus: nothing to tell more about that. all already said - in relation to both topics ;o)
    Bertram Jacobus: from my side :o)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ha:))
    Bertram Jacobus: or - what would you like to "hear" (read) further more ? ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: which questions are open ? are some ? :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: all questions are open
    Bertram Jacobus: which are without answers - (related to the topics here) ? ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: none ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, I would say all, in relation to that:)
    Bertram Jacobus: oh. could you express one or some ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: in relation to the reality of phenomena?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. would be nice
    Scathach Rhiadra: haha, yes would be nice to have an answer:))
    Bertram Jacobus: but what is the question ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: not sure, do you know?
    Bertram Jacobus: as i tried to express before - did not succeed as it seems sadly - the hint, that there must not be so strong impressions (by thoughts, for example), better said : none, no impacts - brought to me the foreshadow, that phenomena must not be so real as we experience it normally ...
    Bertram Jacobus: sorry - telephone here ...
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, I would say that all things do not have an inherently independent existant nature, so what we experience is not really as it is
    Bertram Jacobus: hm ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: (telephone call ready)
    Scathach Rhiadra: wb:)
    Bertram Jacobus: over, finished ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: but even more then no inherent etc. - : not real at all ! only ego may make reality out of his impressions ...
    Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave - have a nice weekend and cu soon again ... i hope ... :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods, yes in a way, we could say that nothing exists ultimately, except the ultimate, maybe?
    Bertram Jacobus: ups - reading ...
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. i think so. agree :-9
    Bertram Jacobus: ugly nine ! ;o)
    Scathach Rhiadra: have a good day Bertram:)
    Bertram Jacobus: tyVm :-))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: are you also reading contemporary buddist text or you got a focus on older literature ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, mostly the older liturature, but some modern commentries
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for example when i hear lectures about western philosophy then i notice that´s hard to understand contemporary texts without an overview over philosophical history
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: if you mean some of the purely western Buddhist literature, then if that was all you read about the tradition, you would probably never know what it was about
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no buddism isn´t something i have a focus on
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like that some people are interested in it and talk about different traditions sometimes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i enjoy watching you guys talking about it :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ha, ty:)
    Scathach Rhiadra: hope it is not too boring:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i often ask myself how western philosophy like existentialism and phenomenology is even related in it´s contents to for example ancient buddist traditions
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and is it even possible that there are mindsets with the exactly same content but just have different names or are at least very close together in its contents
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i don´t know enough to answer those questions for myself yet
    Scathach Rhiadra: me neither, but I suppose they are all exploring a similar question, 'what is reality'
    Scathach Rhiadra: have you been attending the new phenomology workshops at Kira?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, the 2nd yesterday
    Yakuzza Lethecus: haven´t been at the first because i thought it was later
    Yakuzza Lethecus: haven´t expected the first one already at 5 pm my time because the last was at 11 pm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in spring
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s interesting even when the people pema brought in are only talking about their bibliography right now
    Scathach Rhiadra: sounds good:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: they post the logs on a different website
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know why they won´t use the pheno wiki
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, good question:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://sites.google.com/site/phenomenologyvip/home
    Yakuzza Lethecus: both logs are there
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, ty, I must have a look at that
    Scathach Rhiadra: I cannot attend the workshop, still at work at the new time, but I will have a look at the wiki
    Scathach Rhiadra: I had better go, have a good day Yakuzza, see you soon:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye scath

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