2009.10.11 19:00 - What is (my) REAL

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    doug Sosa and I chatted for a bit... no one ele

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi doug
    doug Sosa: hi steve.
    stevenaia Michinaga: what's cooking
    doug Sosa: chicken salad, ate it warm :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    doug Sosa: but a little nervous, just did the final button pushing
    doug Sosa: on an automated email responder, and
    doug Sosa: always worry that there is some mistake that sends them all to the kremlin.
    stevenaia Michinaga: responder for what?
    doug Sosa: for the email list forthe sustainability project.
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww, what kind of sustainablility? seems everyone is sustaining something these days
    stevenaia Michinaga: the word of the "hour"
    doug Sosa: right, and it can't be done, the climate is changing too rapidly.
    stevenaia Michinaga: is there a web link?
    doug Sosa: yes http://mahb.stanford.edu but the new teext won't take effect till midnight.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'll try not to post the blog before then, unless you mean PDT
    doug Sosa: it is all working, just the signup text will send it to the responder rather than to me. the more interesting part if the wiki.
    doug Sosa: I sometimes think that, for the mind, all problems are the same size. A messed up garage, a messed up planet, take about the same amount of mental effort and complexity.
    doug Sosa: esp from the 9 sec.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, every 9 sec is the same
    doug Sosa: ha!
    stevenaia Michinaga: some seem to have more impact than others
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonder what happens during those 9 sec that makes them different
    doug Sosa: good question.
    stevenaia Michinaga: the garage cleaning 9 sec vs the planet cleaning 9 sec
    doug Sosa: well, if we drop categories and judgements, i think they are more the same.
    doug Sosa: Yet somehow, i don't quite believe that. How, in PaB does the seriousness of import of an issue make any difference?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yet, if they mean different things to different people, some create a different kind of motivating conscious harmonic of sorts
    stevenaia Michinaga: like this group seems to respond to each other reinfocing the groups focus
    doug Sosa: yes. some confusion here for me.
    stevenaia Michinaga: sorry somewhat of contorted edit there
    doug Sosa: If in the 9 sec part of the whole seems more important than another part, what is the basis for
    doug Sosa: this judgement, and what does it do to PaB principles?
    stevenaia Michinaga: in that case, since judgement is to be equal in all respects here, then they are all equal
    stevenaia Michinaga: no judgement
    stevenaia Michinaga: scratching head a bit
    doug Sosa: yes, but i notice some people here divide things in the 9 sec between more or less fundamantal. always makes me nervous.
    --BELL--
    stevenaia Michinaga: more or less fundamantal to what? PaB principles?
    doug Sosa: kind of basic asumption . objects aren't real what's really real is... (fillin the blank).
    doug Sosa: like "in meditation we get to what's real".
    doug Sosa: "which is?"
    doug Sosa: "you shouldn't have to ask."
    stevenaia Michinaga: so which part makes you nervious?
    doug Sosa: that people claim that they are getting to what's real and avoiding what is not. But what they say is, seems to me at least as unreal as what they have just said was unreal.
    doug Sosa: (i see why orientals like noodles - is a basic epistemology. :)

    (because I didn't really know:)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

    stevenaia Michinaga: one thing the group does to some extent is bit by bit makes each other's thought clearer to the person who presents them, and offers that viewpoint to everyone else
    doug Sosa: I hope that is true. In any case i thin each peson benefits.
    doug Sosa: think.
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure the group gets anything other than understanding
    doug Sosa: well, there is the sociability.
    doug Sosa: and kindness, a generosity or at the least tolerance that is unusual and wonderful.
    stevenaia Michinaga: instead of my "real" or your "real" an absolute perspective, (PaB)is shared as a relative prespective of what is real by many
    doug Sosa: of course :) (what did he say??)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
    stevenaia Michinaga: I mean a balance of viewpoints seems to define what is real
    doug Sosa: not for me i don't tink. For example, my sense that the economy is real i don't think is shared by everyone.
    doug Sosa: But i hold on to it.
    stevenaia Michinaga: for me there is comfort in that
    stevenaia Michinaga: some agree with you, but never exactly as you see it, and others see soemthing else
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am ofcourse speaking for me and my perceptions
    doug Sosa: Yes, I am very struck by how quickly the problem of sustainability have taken in the minds of quite ordinary people, with details,
    doug Sosa: and analysis, and examples.
    stevenaia Michinaga: the newness of that tends to excite man and fill them with the potential of creative thinking offering solution that simply were not thought about before the awareness came to the forefront of our thoughts
    stevenaia Michinaga: no more business as usualy, creativity is what is needed
    stevenaia Michinaga: *Many (and man in a general sence)
    doug Sosa: yet i sense that people are quite perplexed and resigned even.
    doug Sosa: But awake more than usual.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, there are those who will deny the world is round too, but only in response to those who thing it is round
    stevenaia Michinaga: *think
    doug Sosa: of course in a certain way it is flat, like when we walk we are not taking into account that it curves, butwe do take into account that it is on average flat.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was talking the big flat here
    stevenaia Michinaga: vs a sphere
    doug Sosa: right. but in some perspective it is not flat.. and that the earth goes around the sun, well, only partially, the sun also moves.
    doug Sosa: Hey, i need to go at the bell.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, more like a corkscrew across the universe
    --BELL--
    doug Sosa: now there's a theory.
    doug Sosa: bye.
    stevenaia Michinaga: which is very hard for some to visualize
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye doug
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