2009.10.22 19:00 - Be Here Now

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise Tennant. The comments are by Paradise Tennant.

     

    Paradise Tennant: hiya pila gtsy :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise, how are you?
    Paradise Tennant: very well thanks :)
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: today a carpenter came and puttered around, so it was not as much of a work day for me -- getting little finishing things taken care of
    Paradise Tennant: nice
    Pila Mulligan: it was fun
    Paradise Tennant: i bet
    Paradise Tennant: always nice to get the details done and dusted :)
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Paradise Tennant: must be a beautiful place to live .. when there is no vog.. love the word will come in very handy in scrabble :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, v on a tripple letter scor
    Paradise Tennant: :) grins
    Paradise Tennant: loves to win at scrabble
    Paradise Tennant: you mentioned you had read up on hinduism
    Pila Mulligan: yes, in the past mostly
    Pila Mulligan: and then I re-read wiki's version recently
    Pila Mulligan: about the upcoming theme session
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta
    Pila Mulligan: that wiki article then links to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...dvaita_Vedanta
    Paradise Tennant: there is a very rich cultural heritage of indian gurus
    Pila Mulligan: ... it was interesting to see the number of familiar names on the list of teachers of Advaita Vedanta
    Pila Mulligan: yes it is quite a tradition
    Pila Mulligan: I had not connected some of those familiar names with each other before
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Pila Mulligan: for exmaple, Sri Aurobindo Gose and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
    Paradise Tennant: non duality from a sllightly different tack ?
    Pila Mulligan: well, part of the same fmaily tree, for sure
    Pila Mulligan: but they all take distinct paths from the trunk of the tree
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: the first wiki says ""Advaita" refers to the identity of the Self (Atman) and the Whole (Brahman)"
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: Atman and Brahman are big terms in Hinduism :0
    Paradise Tennant: i am sure it you laid them all out .. they would form a circle .. combining back into each other
    Pila Mulligan: well, the atman question seems to be one of those thoughts that arises all over the place
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: the school that is the discssion topic says, according to wiki:'Brahman is the only truth, the world is illusion, and there is ultimately no difference between Brahman and individual self'
    Pila Mulligan: self being atman
    Paradise Tennant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman
    Pila Mulligan: a personal self or soul
    Paradise Tennant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatta
    Pila Mulligan: and, of course, there are at least two sides the question of whether there is an atman distinct from brahman
    Paradise Tennant: hmmm
    Paradise Tennant: so brahman is ...
    Paradise Tennant: reality
    Paradise Tennant: enlightenment
    Paradise Tennant: ?
    Pila Mulligan: rl phone call ...
    Paradise Tennant: okies
    Paradise Tennant: brb
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: an old freind with a law question :)
    Paradise Tennant: the law is always about questions
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: uncertainty for sure
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: my first take on atman and brahman was that atman was the personal soul and brahman was everyhting else
    Pila Mulligan: kind of simplified -- mybe too much
    Pila Mulligan: but they were distinct n the sense of self and environment being distinct
    --BELL--
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass's book Be Here Now, a hippies guide to the unviverse, refers to Atman as inidivualize Brahman
    Paradise Tennant: I know so llittle about it
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Pila Mulligan: individualized*
    Paradise Tennant: blue must have read the book ..he is licking my toes .. telling me the same thing :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: the book has a blue cover
    Paradise Tennant: will put it on my list
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Pila Mulligan: it is not an ordinary book ;)
    Paradise Tennant: when you use to study with ram dass what was that like ?
    Pila Mulligan: well, it was in the 1970's
    Pila Mulligan: first
    Pila Mulligan: and there were lots of peace and love ideas around
    Pila Mulligan: flower children and acid
    Pila Mulligan: rock and roll
    Pila Mulligan: the REvolution
    Pila Mulligan: it was quite different in that respect :)
    Paradise Tennant: happily the rock and roll survived but the acid didn't ..you do not hear about it much
    Pila Mulligan: it was a big deal then
    Paradise Tennant: did you try it
    Pila Mulligan: and that was where Ram Dass came from -- he was a protege of Timothy Leary at Harvard before he went to Inida
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I did
    Pila Mulligan: it was okay for me, but not as good as meditation
    Paradise Tennant: ;)
    Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass was once Dr. Richard Alpert
    Pila Mulligan: Harvard professor
    Paradise Tennant: he really changed :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, he did
    Paradise Tennant: what did he teach
    Pila Mulligan: psychology
    Pila Mulligan: Alpert accepted a permanent position at Harvard, where he worked with the Social Relations Department, the Psychology Department, the Graduate School of Education, and the Health Service, where he was a therapist
    Pila Mulligan: frm wiki
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Pila Mulligan: n 1967 Alpert traveled to India, where he met the American spiritual seeker Bhagavan Das. As he guided Alpert barefoot from temple to temple, Bhagavan Das began teaching him basic mantras and asanas, as well as how to work with beads. After a few months, Bhagavan Das led Alpert to his guru, Neem Karoli Baba
    Paradise Tennant: baba is another great word love the sound of it
    Pila Mulligan: it essentially means father
    Pila Mulligan: like papa
    Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass was instructed to receive teaching from Hari Dass Baba, who taught in silence using only a chalkboard. While in India, Ram Dass also corresponded with Meher Baba; however, he remained primarily focused on the teaching of Hari Dass Baba. Among other things, Hari Dass Baba trained Ram Dass in raja yoga and ahimsa. It was these life-changing experiences in India that inspired Ram Dass to write the contemporary spiritual classic, Be Here Now, in which he teaches that everyone is a manifestation of God and that every moment is of infinite significance.
    Paradise Tennant: what is ahimsa
    Pila Mulligan: but he combines all his stuff -- psychology, psychotropics and Hinduism, in the book
    Pila Mulligan: non-violence, simply
    Paradise Tennant: hard to grasp that every moment is of infinite significance
    Pila Mulligan: more tehcnically it means not seeking advantage
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: Be Here Now probably saved the lives of countless numbers of hippies on the path to drug hell
    Pila Mulligan: hippies
    Pila Mulligan: oops, numbers*
    Paradise Tennant: hmm yes addiction .. is tragic
    Paradise Tennant: hard to watch
    Pila Mulligan: and so the book is like a cartoon in some ways
    Pila Mulligan: big drawings and type that changes sizes
    Pila Mulligan: but it got people's attneiton
    Pila Mulligan: and was informative
    Pila Mulligan: he used the atman brahmin idea to try to help people understand psychedllic expereinces
    Pila Mulligan: in the sense that you could loose yourself on either side of the distinction between self and enviuronment
    Paradise Tennant: hmm interesting way to phrase it :)
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: so he was not parsing the ideas as finely as Hindus or Buddhsits may in treatises
    Paradise Tennant: nice thing about it .. is that it sounds like he really is living his life ..is he still alive ?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, he live son Maui now
    Pila Mulligan: I used to go to his house for satsang before moving from there in 2005
    Paradise Tennant: with the effects of a stroke
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Paradise Tennant: if I recall
    Pila Mulligan: but he is recovering pretty well
    Pila Mulligan: http://www.miqel.com/entheogens/neem...sd-alpert.html
    Pila Mulligan: here is a telling story about his guru and how Richard Alpert got left behind
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Paradise Tennant: kk reading
    doug Sosa: hi, just back from stanford.
    Pila Mulligan: hi Doug
    Pila Mulligan: welcomeback
    doug Sosa: :)
    Pila Mulligan: we've been chatting about Ram Dass (ne Richard Alpert)
    Paradise Tennant: hiya doug
    doug Sosa: yep, i knew him a bit in the late 70's. good person.
    doug Sosa: good=
    Paradise Tennant: is awed
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    Paradise Tennant: sitting with two people who know ram dass :)) lol
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise was intereste din readnig Be Here Now and I was explaining how it is ont an ordinary book
    doug Sosa: he was serious. i first met him at an omega conferene but later at a small workshop with a group of fairly high managers, in new york as i recall.
    Pila Mulligan: he is an excellent teacher
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    doug Sosa: he worked hard to slow things down.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: to be here now
    Pila Mulligan: I mentioned to Paradise his book and teahcings probably helped countless shippies keep from straying too far into drug abuse
    doug Sosa: I had a face to face meeting with ten grad students today whom i had not met. very hard to slow that down, they are so used to fast paced.
    Pila Mulligan: will they work with your project?
    doug Sosa: love it, shippies!
    Pila Mulligan: sustainability?
    doug Sosa: yes, from their own points of view.
    Pila Mulligan: sounds like a helpful crew
    doug Sosa: They are still pretty ernest and want solutions so suffering doesn't have to happen, but when we talked about the parallels with heath care, banking and climate they were really interested.
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: their generation needs to save the world
    Pila Mulligan: seriously
    doug Sosa: they think in terms of solving problems, not solving the world. in a way the project mentality keeps them from being systems thinkers.
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and solving problems will hopefully help save the world
    doug Sosa: they still count of the leadership being able to get it. There s quite a bit of activity from china and the idea that china
    doug Sosa: will lead the world in climate mitigating tech has got the white house somehwta engaged in catchup.
    Pila Mulligan: hmm, could that be undue optimism?
    doug Sosa: yes.
    Pila Mulligan: China will lead the world in climate mitigating tech
    doug Sosa: but no more than your "hopefully help save the world at 20:11.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: well, I hope it works :)
    doug Sosa: actually who knows. just good to keep working.
    --BELL--
    doug Sosa: with a kind of 9 sec every now and then.
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: availability and sustainability of potable (or even clean) water is a big challenge already in many places -- those are the kinds of problems i think of in terms of saving the world
    doug Sosa: actually the 9 sec is very helpful, keeps me from falling into any one perspective.
    doug Sosa: water and food. if there is water and food, people can live there. it is key to the future.
    doug Sosa: But at another leel, we are almost without a culture, without a civilization, nd anarchy is likely.
    doug Sosa: and it isn't clear if that helps or hurts.
    Pila Mulligan: do you meditate much Doug, as a formal sitting practice? (pardon me if we have talked about this before and I forgot) ... i ask because Paradise likes to add a 5 or 10 minute meditation to the end of her PaB sessiosn
    Paradise Tennant: yes please
    doug Sosa: I would be delighted if we did that.
    Paradise Tennant: I alwasy sleep really well after I meditate with pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: 5, 10 ...? how many minutes?
    Paradise Tennant: say 10 ?
    Paradise Tennant: or five
    doug Sosa: I love these late night sessions.
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    doug Sosa: ten is ok. just tell us.
    Pila Mulligan: if we start now we will end at the next 90 second pause, at 8:30 SLT
    doug Sosa: For me on formal med, i have but i am too much of a daoist.
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    doug Sosa: ok.
    Pila Mulligan: so we being at a gong
    Pila Mulligan: *gong*
    --BELL--
    doug Sosa: ah :)
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: thanks pila ..doug
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Pila Mulligan: thanks indeed
    doug Sosa: adiant. yes.
    doug Sosa: radiant
    Paradise Tennant: always feel a tiny bit bigger :) more spacious inside :) lovely feeling
    Pila Mulligan: restful
    doug Sosa: yes.
    doug Sosa: well, i need to be back to writing and such.. I'm ready.
    Paradise Tennant: sighs .. I have to scoot.. blue is coming to work ..with me tomorrow .. so he needs a bath .. and time is marching on .. looking down at the unsuspecting hound :)
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you doug, have a good evening
    Paradise Tennant: have a great night you two
    Pila Mulligan: have fun Paradise, bye for now
    doug Sosa: Pila, one possibility for a trip would be with my partner on saturday in eight days.
    Paradise Tennant: aloho'oe
    Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
    Pila Mulligan: that would be nice
    doug Sosa: would that work? We ar looking at my coming furing the week but want to chose best option for all of us.
    Pila Mulligan: my schedule is pretty open
    doug Sosa: she has several presentations but finished i think thursday evening.
    Pila Mulligan: the guest room has a queen size bed
    Pila Mulligan: and its own bathroom
    doug Sosa: I'll email you about what day during the week might work.
    Pila Mulligan: any time would be fine
    doug Sosa: we are easy. ..
    Pila Mulligan: one bit of advice
    doug Sosa: yes..?
    Pila Mulligan: I'm vegetarian, nondrinker, no TV
    Pila Mulligan: so it is just not your ordinary house with beer and tv shows
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    doug Sosa: that is just fine. we have no tv, penny does like but has no need for wine, and we have vegetarian children.. :)
    Pila Mulligan: cool
    Pila Mulligan: most people like it for a while
    Pila Mulligan: some miss their wine :)
    doug Sosa: we are fine. its the cigars (ha).
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: oh, that too :)
    doug Sosa: can we eat local lizards auteed i pinneable?
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: there are acouple of nice restaURANTS HEREABOUTS
    doug Sosa: i knew i was joking, couldn't spell one of them words correct.
    Pila Mulligan: pARDON THE CAPS
    Pila Mulligan: caps*
    doug Sosa: Hope it works. let you know.
    Pila Mulligan: me too
    doug Sosa: gotta go. why is the sun coming up? Where we here that long?
    Pila Mulligan: Ram Dass needs to slow it down
    doug Sosa: the great egyptian sun god ram, dass is who we need.
    doug Sosa: Bye, night..
    Pila Mulligan: bye for now
    doug Sosa: uh oh.
    Pila Mulligan: hi Fox
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Pila Mulligan: a new look
    Fox Monacular: yeah... I'm into steampunk these days:)
    doug Sosa: foxy fox!
    Fox Monacular: both of you look like clouds to me though
    Pila Mulligan: looks like alittle Amish as well
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Fox Monacular: don't tell the elders about my baby
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    doug Sosa: a liitle but more just cute.
    doug Sosa: elegantly cute.
    Fox Monacular: I'm blushing
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    doug Sosa: fox we were both needing to go. blushing looks good on you too.
    Pila Mulligan: but I can stay for a bit if you like Fox
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Fox Monacular: after session session
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    doug Sosa: sorry to leave, i do like these late sessions. very prescious, thanks to you, paradise, eos.
    Pila Mulligan: have a nice eveining Doug
    Fox Monacular: take care Doug
    doug Sosa: :)
    Pila Mulligan: how are you Fox?
    Fox Monacular: everybody's asleep!
    Fox Monacular: rare moments:)
    Pila Mulligan: :0
    --BELL--
    Fox Monacular: great! ok, so I'll have to log out and log in with that hippo program
    Fox Monacular: so I'll see you in 2 min there?
    Pila Mulligan: ok, see you there
    Fox Monacular: :)
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