2009.11.13 13:00 - can your brain count more then 3 ?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza Lethecus. The comments are by Yakuzza Lethecus.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: nabend wol
    Wol Euler: hallo yaku, wie geht's?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Es, is ok, ich schaue gerade nach dem stromverbrauch meiner elektrogeräte.
    Wol Euler: spannend! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Ja allerdings, ich habe ein gerät das 18W braucht aber auf dem netzteil steht 12V 1000ma
    Yakuzza Lethecus: also das dürfte nur 12W schaffen wird auch knallheiss
    Wol Euler: O.O
    Wol Euler: kein wunder.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Mein wlanrouter
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 18watt die ständig laufen
    Wol Euler: vielleicht haben die eine falsche geliefert?
    Wol Euler: was meint der Router selber schlucken zu wollen?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Der ist schon 5-6 Jahre alt.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Steht leider nicht drauf.
    Wol Euler: aber google weist alles :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Ja soll auch 18 Watt verbrauchen.
    Wol Euler: ah, dann ist tatsächlich die falsche Trafo.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Das Netzteil ist auch richtig, mit dem Cisco Linksys logo
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Good evening calvin
    Wol Euler: hello calvin, welcome back.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: have you been here before ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah ok :)
    Calvino Rabeni: good day. Yes.
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, he was here mid-week
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Does anyone of you have a topic in mind ?
    Wol Euler: nope, sorry
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm feeling lagged. Does anyone ever talk about hygeine for being in SL?
    Wol Euler: hello Arch, nice to see you.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi arch
    Wol Euler: hygiene? as in switching off once in a while?
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, some of my favorite people :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello, all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: My SL hygiene is good right now, i don't spend more then 2-3 hrs logged in.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: But most of that time i am not very mindful.
    Archmage Atlantis: I'm experiencing lag also
    Calvino Rabeni: well, the medium gets hooked into one's neurology, body sense and all that.
    Wol Euler nods. Me toooooo.
    Calvino Rabeni: so data latency can be experienced as physical tension
    Wol Euler: it's easy to get addicted to SL, I think.
    Calvino Rabeni: some people it can turn into chronic stuff, like RSI
    Archmage Atlantis: Hey, for us homebound it is more real than life at times *grin*
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    arabella Ella: hiya
    Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Arabella
    Wol Euler: the risk of getting addicted seems to be hardwired into our brains
    Yakuzza Lethecus: guten abend ara
    Wol Euler: people get addicted to alll kinds of very wierd stuff
    Archmage Atlantis: That is a good topic, what is addiction
    arabella Ella: guten abend Yaku :)
    Archmage Atlantis: If a writer spends hours and days writing a book, is that addiction?
    Wol Euler: it is if he thinks it is :)
    arabella Ella: there may be a fine line between motivation and obsession i guess
    Calvino Rabeni: canyou define addiction as a process
    Wol Euler: I think the boundary line is volition. If you want to do it, it's a habit or a hobby; if you would rather not, but cannot stop, then it's an addiction
    Wol Euler: or a job :)
    arabella Ella nods
    Archmage Atlantis: There are 100s of definations of addiction, usually used as judgements by other people
    Wol Euler: there are good, positive, addictions too. A friend of mine says he's addicted to running every morning
    Wol Euler: if he doesn'T get his fix, he is grumpy and fidgety all day
    arabella Ella: but that is because running gives the body positive endorphins which become addictive
    Wol Euler points to the last word of your sentence :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, they treat that addiction to physical activity here in some clinics
    Calvino Rabeni: TV - addiction?
    Wol Euler: yep, that too.
    Wol Euler: gambling, lotteries
    Calvino Rabeni: Running anger with people - addiction?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Can we see a medium as addictive in itself ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Is it the TV or is it the TV shows you get addicted from ?
    Calvino Rabeni: :) typing during the silent period - technically, is that considered silent?
    Calvino Rabeni: Nevermind
    Wol Euler grins and shakes her head
    Yakuzza Lethecus hides
    Wol Euler: hello qt, gaya
    arabella Ella: :)
    Qt Core: hi all
    arabella Ella: hiya Qt, Gaya
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey qt, gaya
    Calvino Rabeni: If you turn off the aimation, noone knows you're typing to get your expression ready for when the bell rings.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: My thought is that I can type what Is in my mind, but not hit send/say to interrupt otherrs
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
    Wol Euler: actually I like the animation, the cue that something is about to be said.
    Archmage Atlantis: Greetings Gaya, QT
    Wol Euler: I try not to buy animations that override it.
    Calvino Rabeni: My thought is, the silence is for my mind, rather than not-disturbing-others.
    Archmage Atlantis: My mind is silent when I type in the pause, the part of me that types is other
    Archmage Atlantis: Each of us is different
    Wol Euler: indeed :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Bert
    Qt Core: the three points are even louder than what will appear after a while as they have the possibility of becoming everything
    arabella Ella: Hiya Zon
    Wol Euler: hello bertram, zon
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bertram and Zon :)
    Zon Quar: hi all
    Bertram Jacobus: hey all ! :-) ...
    arabella Ella: three points?
    Qt Core: the dots
    Wol Euler: …
    arabella Ella: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: this everything can even be nothing (!) ... :-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Mathematically, a point has no dimension
    Archmage Atlantis: Only location on a grid
    Calvino Rabeni: three points define, a plane, but also, a series
    Bertram Jacobus: thats a real mystery to me arch ! : we have the idea of a point but no experience of it (!) ...
    Qt Core: but nonetheless so much math is about them ;-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Mathematics and Philosophy are tied at the core
    Calvino Rabeni: jokes always have three events, or rabbis, or whatever.
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: children's tales three brothers or sisters
    Wol Euler: or bears
    arabella Ella: but seven dwarfs
    Wol Euler: mm, true.
    Calvino Rabeni: My point is.
    Bertram Jacobus: and mountains ara ... ;-)
    Wol Euler: perhaps because they are so short?
    arabella Ella: he he
    Calvino Rabeni: Well the logic is different in narratology than numerology
    Archmage Atlantis: Calvino, I think there were some studies done years ago that the current human brain only can count to 3
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    arabella Ella: what do you mean Arch?
    Qt Core: a little more, between 4 and 5
    Calvino Rabeni: The mind loses interest after three
    arabella Ella: sounds a bit counterintuitive
    Archmage Atlantis: After that we start to combine, 1s, 2s, and 3s
    Bertram Jacobus: the human brain can count ? if so at least mine can count more than 3 :-)
    Wol Euler: depends what you mean by "count", perhaps.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or that the maximum we can memorize at once is about 7
    Qt Core: the numbers of things you can "know" how many thai are not having to count them
    Archmage Atlantis: Visualize I suppose would be better
    arabella Ella: i heard that we can easily memorise lists of up to six items like a six number phone
    Wol Euler: let's try that at the next bell :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Neela :)
    Wol Euler: a little workshop on counting.
    Neela Blaisdale: Hello everyone:)
    Wol Euler: start at one and count upwards, and watch yourself counting.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello neela
    Wol Euler: try to keep the numbers in mind.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: have you been here before ?
    Wol Euler: can you, as you count past 21 22 23 etc -- can you still hold and appreciate 1 and 14 in your mind?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ups nevermind
    Neela Blaisdale: oh yes, just not too much in a wjile:)
    Wol Euler: hello neela, nice to see you
    Bertram Jacobus: hi neela ... :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ur even in the group :)
    Qt Core: but don't imagine sheeps while counting ;-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you have a body sense of how many avatars here here inthe circle?
    Archmage Atlantis: That is a good question Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: THe kind of counting crows do, perhaps.
    Wol Euler: with my eyes open I would say yes :)
    Bertram Jacobus: my body sense might say : some ... (?)
    Wol Euler: counting now ...
    Bertram Jacobus: and my brain counts 10 :-)
    Wol Euler smiles. Any comments?
    Bertram Jacobus: 63
    Qt Core: i kept seeing a list of the number going away in the background
    Qt Core: white numbers disappearing in darkness
    Bertram Jacobus: a bit more concious then at other times, may be because of the group support ...
    Qt Core: and the counting was trying to get in sync with breathing
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: when I stopped that, it tried to sync with my heartbeat instead :)
    Wol Euler: I tried to keep contact with the numbers, to keep them in my mind as I continued to count
    Wol Euler: like putting rubber ducklings into the circle of my arms in the bath :)
    Wol Euler: but found I couldn't keep track of them, couldn't hold on to them.
    Wol Euler: only two or three number were ever "present" at one time
    Wol Euler: I knew that I had counted the rest, but htey were somehow past and detached
    Gaya Ethaniel: You mean you had lost a focus somewhat after 3?
    Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
    Archmage Atlantis: Grouped or cataloged
    Archmage Atlantis: Not lost
    Wol Euler: rather that my focus ws only broad enough to hold about three numbers at once
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or ... your focus 'expanded' in a way instead?
    Qt Core: i got 1,13 and 14 keeping to grasp my attention
    Wol Euler: my "present moment" was only big enough to hold three, the rest became "past"
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Wol Euler: yes arch, not lost as such, but not immediately present, I knew they were there but could not touch thtem
    Calvino Rabeni: is there a greater present moment, or is consciousness a keyhole view?
    Archmage Atlantis: Interesting observation
    Archmage Atlantis: Calvino
    Archmage Atlantis: I can only say that keyholes are views
    Archmage Atlantis: stolen
    Archmage Atlantis: imho
    Bertram Jacobus: humble ? ;-)
    arabella Ella: snapshots perhaps
    Wol Euler: like the sequence of still frames of a movie, to use Pema's favourite metaphor
    Archmage Atlantis: What would you ask me Berrtram
    Bertram Jacobus: whether your opinion is really humble arch (?) ...
    Calvino Rabeni: it just seems - introspection is fraught
    Wol Euler: it's a convention of speech, bert :)
    Archmage Atlantis: It is an acknowledgement that I do not know everything
    Bertram Jacobus: i know wol, but it always makes me ... taking it litterally - bad ?
    Wol Euler: only insofar as it is usually not meant literally, except as Arch said.
    Wol Euler: when someone says "I died laughing" they usually don't mean "... and am now a rotting corpse"
    arabella Ella: you could replace it with 'as far as i know' or 'to the best of my knowledge'
    Archmage Atlantis: It is not how I would say it in RL
    Archmage Atlantis: I am trying to learn the conventions of speach in this place
    arabella Ella: :)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: impressing example wol ! ... hm ... ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: metaphors have uncanny power
    Bertram Jacobus: but - the tibetans say : relativity should be taken as precise (and fine) as farina ...
    Wol Euler: (another pause coming up, does anyone have a suggestion?)
    Archmage Atlantis: What is a metaphor?
    Gaya Ethaniel frowns ... thought Archmage is a poet ...
    Calvino Rabeni: metaphor is the tructure of thought
    Calvino Rabeni: structure
    Calvino Rabeni: or the story behind it
    Gaya Ethaniel: Good night :)
    Wol Euler: a metaphor is a comparison, an image that brings two things together that don't actually belong together
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night gaya
    Bertram Jacobus: nighty nite gaya ! ... :-)
    Wol Euler: bye gaya
    Archmage Atlantis: Night Gaya, thank you for being here
    Neela Blaisdale: bye Gaya
    Wol Euler: "he's a bear when he's angry"
    Wol Euler: or "the world is your oyster"
    arabella Ella: brb
    Calvino Rabeni: don't belong together *by convention*. So the definition is relative to convention.
    Archmage Atlantis: All of a sudden I feel all eyes upon me
    Archmage Atlantis: Obviously delusion
    Wol Euler: or don't belong together by fact. He remains a member of the species Homo Sapiens when angry.
    Wol Euler: heh, don't worry, Arch.
    Bertram Jacobus: re yaku (?) ;-)
    Wol Euler: ah, there you are :) your nametag appeared nearly a minute before you did
    Neela Blaisdale: the appearance of Yakuzza....:)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty all for the talk - have a great time . and may all beings be happy please ! ...
    Neela Blaisdale: Bye Bert:)
    Wol Euler: goodnight bert, take care
    Archmage Atlantis: Keep learning Bertram
    Wol Euler: :)
    Qt Core: 'night bert
    Archmage Atlantis: That is brave
    Neela Blaisdale: what is brave, Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: To continue to learn
    Neela Blaisdale: Ah...
    arabella Ella: back
    Wol Euler: wb
    Calvino Rabeni: who's got a favorite metaphor?
    arabella Ella: i have many
    Wol Euler: "the world is your lobster"
    Archmage Atlantis: please share
    arabella Ella: where there's a will there's a way
    Neela Blaisdale: l0l"\:)
    Calvino Rabeni: how about one you live inside?
    Wol Euler: interesting idea, calvino, can you suggest one like that?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes. two that come to mind.
    Calvino Rabeni: the wheel of karma (makes me dizzy, I just want to get off)....
    Calvino Rabeni: My mind is a container. An empty one. (not really)
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: cool
    Wol Euler: nice examples.
    Calvino Rabeni: Another - "zombie". Really popular on TV these last couple years.
    Archmage Atlantis: Yak gave me one another day recently
    Wol Euler: mmm?
    arabella Ella: will you share it?
    Archmage Atlantis: I was observing him, so not really fair to share it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am also curioius :)
    Wol Euler grins. Pretty please?
    Archmage Atlantis: I do not have the original poem
    Archmage Atlantis: But the essence came from a time when he was here when I arrived
    Archmage Atlantis: And only his avatar remained for the session
    Archmage Atlantis: "we are seen, but unseen
    Archmage Atlantis: We are here but not here
    Archmage Atlantis: We are'
    Wol Euler nods
    Archmage Atlantis: that's it
    arabella Ella: cool
    arabella Ella: and so true
    arabella Ella: fraid i must go nite all
    Calvino Rabeni: bye
    Qt Core: bye ara
    Wol Euler: ha, I turn away for a moment ...
    Archmage Atlantis: It is time, an hour is long to us
    Wol Euler: true, I too shold be moving on. It's been a great discussion, thank you all.
    Wol Euler: goodnight, take care.
    Qt Core: bye wol
    Neela Blaisdale: Bye Arch
    Qt Core: and bye arch
    Neela Blaisdale: Me too Bye everyone
    Zon Quar: namaste
    Calvino Rabeni: any topics in the air?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night
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