2009.11.16 19:00 - The looseness of play

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database, and Eliza filled in missing text...


     Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fox! :) Hi Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Eliza
    Fox Monacular: Hi Eliza
    stevenaia Michinaga: my dinner consisted of yummy desserts at a meeting and an apple just recently
    Fox Monacular: the reason I was up was that I was reading Mahabharata:)
    Fox Monacular: nice
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, no dinner with dinner, Steve?
    stevenaia Michinaga: can;t wait to see what that does to my sleep patterns
    Fox Monacular: sweet dreams?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: What were you reading specifically, Fox?
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata
    stevenaia Michinaga: you read sanscipt?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bert :)
    Fox Monacular: Hi Bert
    Fox Monacular: no no no sanscrit:)
    Bertrum Quan: Hi everyone.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Bert
    Fox Monacular: http://www.amazon.com/Mahabharata-Modern-Rendering-Vol/dp/0595401880/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258427394&sr=8-12
    Fox Monacular: that's the one I'm reading
    stevenaia Michinaga: a not so light read, it would appear
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, seems worthwhile though
    Fox Monacular: this one is actually as light as lord of the rings really
    Fox Monacular: the same author did a modern retelling of Ramayana, and it was really amazing
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, will save to desktop then :)
    Fox Monacular: Hello Calvino
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: good eve!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So anyone have a PaB topic? :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Calvino
    stevenaia Michinaga: reading Mahabharata wiki
    Eliza Madrigal: :))

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    Something basic...

    Calvino Rabeni: How about something basic?
    Eliza Madrigal: Basic sounds good. What do you have in mind?
    Calvino Rabeni: The "play" theme. In contrast to the more dominant "work" idea.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice :)
    Fox Monacular: I was thinking when reading Mahabharata that essentially the story is as understandable today as ever...
    it's really not so difficult to relate to the characters as soon as you wrap your mind about some cultural things
    Eliza Madrigal: What comes to mind when you think 'play as being'? That's changed for me a few times
    Fox Monacular: oh, sorry, lag
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes apologies Fox...didn't realize you were sharing...steps off toes
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: What comes to mind is the often "serious" tone to spiritual practices, like connected to intention, like a lot rides on it, etc.
    Fox Monacular: no no, I typed it earlier, and then it got too late:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
    Fox Monacular: the seriousness can be quite intimidating sometimes
    Calvino Rabeni: I am ok with mahabharata - maybe it can be seen through play.
    Eliza Madrigal: One of my favorite pab themes is probably taking things 'lightly'...
    stevenaia Michinaga: Play for me is where being meets the mind, something that you can only "play " with to help understand it
    Fox Monacular: it's definitely very playful:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: big B
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Oh, like that Steven
    Eliza Madrigal: perhaps we're more receptive when in that lightly mode, too
    Eliza Madrigal: letting Being play us
    Calvino Rabeni: Play as a word also means a kind of looseness within a tight space
    Fox Monacular: for me sometimes play is the opposite state from Being
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, I was reading something about looseness today
    Eliza Madrigal: Go on Fox?
    Fox Monacular: it is as if Being... with a big B, is a state of non-relational existence, and then play is definitely relational and strives on oppositions
    Eliza Madrigal: how interesting... so contrasting on a relative level.. and then Hm...
    Calvino Rabeni: Anyone conversant with Tantra?
    Fox Monacular: but then, like Steve said, you can also play with Being
    Fox Monacular: no, not really
    Calvino Rabeni: Oranything you think *might*be about the same phenomena?
    Eliza Madrigal: just a little Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Tell?
    Eliza Madrigal: Just inspired by writings, generally :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Practices?
    Calvino Rabeni: I meant, experiences. Not formal, necessarily.
    Eliza Madrigal: No not really Calvino... but I do like the general idea of getting to the energy level of things perhaps
    Fox Monacular: you mean experiences of energy flows?
    Fox Monacular: like chanting mantras?
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, yes that's what I think of
    Fox Monacular: or Tai Chi
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps energy flow. Dunno about mantras.
    Calvino Rabeni: Tai chi, sure
    Eliza Madrigal: Is that something you practice Calvino?
    stevenaia Michinaga: an begining Tai Chi
    Calvino Rabeni: I have, not recently. But body awareness of "energy" is a common theme in that and other esoteric practices.
    Eliza Madrigal nods... integration

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    Eliza Madrigal: Does energy work/tai chi relate to your idea of 'looseness' of play, Calvino?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes it does.
    Calvino Rabeni: (thinking)
    Eliza Madrigal: I think sometimes we practice and discuss...and then it must play out in our physical lives in various ways...

    Calvino Rabeni: I brought up Tantra but didn't want to go on about it if some of you are more informed than I.
    Calvino Rabeni: But what little I've read shows a fine description of the internal experience of movement arising from a void state
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: And I'd venture that is what "energy" refers to.
    Calvino Rabeni: How do you detect "energy" as an experience?
    Eliza Madrigal: And do you relate this to what you've seen of PlayasBeing so far?
    Eliza Madrigal: (Am I asking too many questions?) Sorry
    Fox Monacular: maybe if we consider that movement, these energies in a more playful way it may help to not identify with then and be more detached?
    Calvino Rabeni: To me it is relevant in that, there's a sponaneous arising of movement, which seems like the nature of "play"
    Eliza Madrigal nods...yes that seems so... like not labeling just seeing what arises... how things come into play...
    Calvino Rabeni: WIth connotations of freedom.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: play is a very creative state of exploration
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bertrum Quan: Play as creativity/imagunation/inspiration: "Players and the painted stage took all my love. And not those things they were emblems of."
    Yeats' "The Circus Animals' Desertion" just popped into my head...
    Calvino Rabeni: No doubt you've heard the "state of flow" idea. So what comes before the flow?
    Calvino Rabeni: (rhetorically)
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes nice question to consider... loosening perhaps...
    Calvino Rabeni: Steve, I feel the creativity and exploration actually gets started somewhere prior
    Eliza Madrigal: And I think thats pretty impressive Bert, to have Yeats on speed dial ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: pior to what?
    stevenaia Michinaga: prior
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    Calvino Rabeni: Prior to where there is continuing and flowing and following something (meaning exploration)
    Eliza Madrigal: Somewhere prior...the void you mentioned?
    Calvino Rabeni: So,analogy of a flowing creek. The water plays over the stones, without care or control. But where did it come from before that?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah I guess, void?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I see play as the starting point, before play is not void, but letting go creating the void the play in
    Eliza Madrigal: MMM
    Eliza Madrigal: That's a really neat description, Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: you get stuck, so you Play your way out of it
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: at least I do
    stevenaia Michinaga: what is Being, I don;t know, let's play
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So interesting... thinking about the terms that have come up in this session so far... loosening, playing out, out of stuck, flowing, freedom, love...
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes :) Why Not.. no goal
    stevenaia Michinaga: missed the "love" context
    Calvino Rabeni: I have mixed feelings about esoterica - how does it go in this group?
    Fox Monacular: it is a lot like with children... things they don't quite understand they play out first
    Calvino Rabeni: Discovery through embodiment
    Fox Monacular: yes:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

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    Eliza Madrigal: Bert's Yeats quote, Steve... picked up love in there ...and isn't that what drives discovery too? :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    Eliza Madrigal: Calvino, PlayasBeing is made up of people from all sorts of backgrounds of practice/no practice, etc
    Calvino Rabeni: It's good to not get technical
    Eliza Madrigal: accepting of one another's interests, but sharing in a kind of space between :)
    Eliza Madrigal: that playful space...dreamy space sometimes, especially when Fox is around
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Fox Monacular: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: ! :)
    Fox Monacular: sorry i'm slow to respond again... BOB again
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe we got too serious talking about play
    Eliza Madrigal: heh
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I think Pila M. would have something interesting on this
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Pila always has something interesting :)
    Calvino Rabeni: He put a lot into that article on I Ching.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, you read that?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes it was beautifully put together
    Eliza Madrigal: and so inspiring
    stevenaia Michinaga: is there a link?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Steve..let me get it
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx
    Eliza Madrigal: http://ways-of-knowing.wik.is/6Writings%2f%2fEssays/What_is_Natural%3f__(a_Chinese_version)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, a link, but I was hoping we could hear it from him, since I have a feeling that's a special interest of his.
    Eliza Madrigal: He put this together for the Ways of Knowing workshop
    Fox Monacular: perhaps I Ching reflects the fundamental playfulness of reality)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm, link is empty
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm? Let me check again... came up for me...
    Paradise Tennant is Online
    stevenaia Michinaga: got it
    Fox Monacular: I've been doing a lot of I Ching since I talked with Pila
    Eliza Madrigal: Really?
    Fox Monacular: yes:)
    Calvino Rabeni: Did he give you an inside scoop?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I remember i Ching was popular in high school
    Fox Monacular: a little:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Until Pila it really wasn't on my radar...
    Fox Monacular: yes, exactly, me too i got into it in high school
    Eliza Madrigal: but he is inspiring
    Fox Monacular: but i was also into spiritism and such then
    Eliza Madrigal: trying things on?
    Fox Monacular: yes:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Playful of you!
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
    Fox Monacular: Russia has a particular blend of religion and occult stuff
    Fox Monacular: Hi Paradise
    Eliza Madrigal: Just want to paste here Pila's last comment on the page, in case anyone resisted following the link :
    "the net sum being that circulation of light and quiet lead to a spontaneous unity arising from stillness. "
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi paradise :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Isn't Russia very steeped in tradition Fox?

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    Fox Monacular: well yes and no... soviet union worked hard to destroy all tradition...
    Paradise Tennant: :) great comment from Pila ! just lovely !
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    Fox Monacular: there are psychics in Russia that are simultaneoulsy very religious
    Calvino Rabeni: You live there, Fox?
    Fox Monacular: and one of the most popular TV reality shows is 'psychic challenge' where psychics compete going all sorts of paranormal tasks
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes that's what I imagined..that when things are supressed there can develop more attachment, in a way
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh goodness
    Fox Monacular: no, I live in Montreal now, but I was born and grew up in Moscow
    Fox Monacular: psychics and witches and 'traditional
    Fox Monacular: healers are everywhere
    Fox Monacular: and at the same time people are very strict Orthodox
    Fox Monacular: it is very particular
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds interestsing actually
    Fox Monacular: yes, it is
    Fox Monacular: russian Orthodox church is arguably among the strictest
    Fox Monacular: and yet so many pagan rites and superstitions survive
    Fox Monacular: actually Russians are extremely supersticious in everyday life
    Fox Monacular: we religiously do stuff like spit over the left shoulder, knock on the wood, look in the mirror if forgot keys....
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, was just asking that :)
    Fox Monacular: only when I started living with my canadian boyfriend I realized how many things like that I do on everyday basis!
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Does it amuse him?
    Fox Monacular: for instance, you can never say happy birthday before it actually happens
    Fox Monacular: so celebrating birthdays in advance is a big no-no for ut
    Fox Monacular: *us
    Fox Monacular: yes, he finds it really funny
    Fox Monacular: or baby showers....
    Eliza Madrigal: :) What is the thinking behind the birthday greeting?
    Fox Monacular: not to jinx it
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah.. wow, worriers
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Fox Monacular: yes, definitely!
    Fox Monacular: trying not to tempt fate too much
    Calvino Rabeni: There is a fatalism to the russian psyche?
    Fox Monacular: oh big time, Calvino!
    Calvino Rabeni: So that is why I like them
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Fox Monacular: :) crime and punishment
    Fox Monacular: is our national anthem, really
    Fox Monacular: unofficial
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh...but then you have Tolstoy too and his winding writing... appreciating the intricasies of thought and landscape....
    Fox Monacular: and anarchy too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) guess there are treasures that come from oppositions...
    Calvino Rabeni: And from bad weather
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, yes I imagine
    Fox Monacular: well, the weather isn't really that bad
    Eliza Madrigal: Brrrr
    Fox Monacular: I mean it's not always raining in Moscow, and not everyone is wearing grey overcoats and fur hats
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, darn
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: But you have to stay indoors more than in a warmer climate
    Eliza Madrigal: It is very late... I am going to sign off and apologize for being so talkative...get chatty when up too late I think
    Fox Monacular: it's great to chat with you Eliza!
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Night everyone. Thank you! Thanks Fox, good to make it to your session!
    Fox Monacular: good night ELiza
    Eliza Madrigal: Bfn
    Fox Monacular: I'll have to go as well

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