2009.11.20 19:00 - Almost Anything Will Do

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal. The comments are by Eliza Madrigal, who was joined this evening by Calvino, Eden, Archmage, Doug, and Steve.

    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you tonight
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I always come staggering into these meetings, disoriented.
    Calvino Rabeni: BUt not disorderly
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, no you are quite well mannered :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Meaning cannot control the avatar well.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, it takes some getting used to... feeling into the avatar?
    doug Sosa: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi doug :)
    Calvino Rabeni: No, it lurches from side to side - no fine grained control.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, need an AO perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: How've you been, doug?
    Calvino Rabeni: What is an AO?
    Eliza Madrigal: animation override? gestures, etc... makes the av movements a little smoother
    doug Sosa: ok.
    doug Sosa: you?
    Eliza Madrigal: I thought you might be talking about the general switching into using the av.. a diff orientation
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, doing well doug. Thanks :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Well it does make me dizzy
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Interesting to notice...
    Calvino Rabeni: But your topic is interesting
    Eliza Madrigal: like I notice how different it is to host an evening session
    Eliza Madrigal: when I'm used to mornings
    Calvino Rabeni: How so?
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, that's what I'm noticing... that I feel more 'on' in the mornings I think... so a bit different :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe it is that I'm paying attention to energy, as we talked about at the WoK workshop this week
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, PaB topics that come to mind tonight?
    Calvino Rabeni: I assume it overlaps with WOK?
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: the seeping from one thing to another seems natural
    Eliza Madrigal: ?

    We begin to settle in on a topic of 9 second exploration...

    Calvino Rabeni: Wll the tantrics describe ZBeing as a state of pure play
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles...and wonders what 'pure' means...
    doug Sosa: Calvino tell me a story. That sounds like the beginning of a story!
    Eden Haiku: Smiles and says hi!
    doug Sosa: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: "Pure" - we can guess about it.
    Calvino Rabeni: I think one thing it means is there is no trace of an intention to become a specific form.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes maybe it has to do with examining intentions
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh...specific form? releasing expectations?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it is prior to intention
    Eliza Madrigal: That's an interesting idea... prior to intention... choiceless?
    Calvino Rabeni: Like activity, but without a trace of intention towards form.
    Calvino Rabeni: For instance, sometimes introspection reveals a subtle flavor of intention and directionality to nearly any thought
    Calvino Rabeni: Or to what comes before thought.
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm.. yes I can see that...
    Calvino Rabeni: Like it is already predetermined, in some subtle way
    Eliza Madrigal: determination by the very thought?
    Eliza Madrigal: Well it seems how we function
    Eliza Madrigal: By the time we think... we're on our way somewhere
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I think it may be part of the "I" structure prior to thought
    Calvino Rabeni: right
    Eliza Madrigal: Would you all like to do an excercize at the bell tonight?
    Eden Haiku: Sure
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    doug Sosa: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: Any suggestions?
    Calvino Rabeni: and idea is to look for intentionality prior to thought
    Calvino Rabeni: is that doable?
    doug Sosa: how the mind goes into the 9 0 sec, what si the actual experience?
    Eden Haiku: good
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm... I think those two things fit together nicely actually....
    Calvino Rabeni: subtle desire
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    doug Sosa: very interesting. i am tired so.. the 90 began with lots of thoughtss, but all wrapped, like in burlap bags, or stones just lying around, all openable, but i didn't. they were just there.
    doug Sosa: And i became much more aware of my tiredness. a peculiar kind.
    Eden Haiku: Mind following the bell, birds chipping sounds much clearer in the headset than before, sensation of light in the stomach (plexus) tahn in the whole body, noise in RL (someone in the shower, feeling of anxiety.
    doug Sosa: Not a really hard day but lectured to a aclass of 200 for th first time in years.
    Eliza Madrigal: wow.. a real feeling of weightiness, doug
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, sounds exciting
    doug Sosa: interesting. i guess weighiness, but i didn't become conscious of that aspect of those wrpapped thoughts.
    Eden Haiku: Did you enjoying lecturing to so many students?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) you noticed quite a lot Eden... managed to feel what is going on in your body, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: I noticed a subtle fear of slipping into the gap and then having nothing to report... but I let it go
    doug Sosa: Yes, it was really wonderful, but I am a bit of a performer.
    Calvino Rabeni: I had an initial fixation on headache - I am a bit ill, but as I relaxed I felt energy swirling into a compact ball with a certain shape, not a contraction awa from anyuthing but a compression that built force. It felt healing.
    doug Sosa: Eliza, how could experiencing the gp and "nothing to report" be anything but a great report!
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes, funny I guess
    Eliza Madrigal: And that's a gift, doug, to enjoy that kind of setting..terrifying to many
    Eliza Madrigal: Calvino, you mean you can tell where the headache is? or the tension? in a sense...
    Eliza Madrigal is always curious about the healing applications of contemplation
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: so often our pains and needs are 'general'
    Calvino Rabeni: a type of chi kung
    Calvino Rabeni: not really general if they are looked at
    Eliza Madrigal: so maybe one application of these kinds of excercizes is allowing us to notice distinctions at times...
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Calvino Rabeni: then they take form
    Calvino Rabeni: of any degree - it is emergent
    Calvino Rabeni: the distinctions are not necessarily "already there"

    Doug shares thoughts about the nine seconds, and transitions... 

    doug Sosa: i continually learn from the transition from pre 90 into the 90 (or the 9).
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I think that is a really good tension point, doug... those transitions...
    Eliza Madrigal: we're constantly moving from one 'place' to another, but not noticing how
    Eden Haiku: I noticed today on the wiki that it is recommended to write down after the 9 secs. I had forgotten about that. I dis it today: twice I think...
    doug Sosa: good. and maybe that gets back to the posibility of seeign where intention comes in.
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you find it illuminating Eden? I've not done that too often
    Eden Haiku: Let me go look for my notebook. It vanished frm my memory what I wrote down...
    Eliza Madrigal seems to be asking a lot of questions today.. heh
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, sure Eden
    Eliza Madrigal: I guess part of my fear of letting go into the pause was that... that the intention wouldn't be there to report... to move forward, in a sense
    Eliza Madrigal: we can be so irrational, good when we get a glimpse of that :)
    doug Sosa: catching the intention is very hard. even trying is an advance.
    Eliza Madrigal nods... seems like we can combine these two things again for the next pause if everyone likes :)
    Calvino Rabeni: would you say it again just before the bell?
    doug Sosa: i am tired enough that i must say goodnight aat the bell. thanks for hosting .
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Night doug, thanks for joining us
    Eliza Madrigal: And sure, Calvino
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Here's the excercize for the next pause:
    Eliza Madrigal: [19:13] Calvino Rabeni: and idea is to look for intentionality prior to thought [19:13] Calvino Rabeni: is that doable? [19:14] doug Sosa: how the mind goes into the 9 0 sec, what si the actual experience? [19:14] Eden Haiku: good [19:14] Eliza Madrigal: Hm... I think those two things fit together nicely actually....
    Eden Haiku: First notes (in the morning, around 11) I cerated the haiku while walking by the river, wrote it down as I came back:

    Shades of black and grey

    /It is raining this morning

    / Along the river.
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Friends
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden, every line is so nice...even isolated...'along the river'..mm :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Being is to be
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: This time the image of water was with me... thanks to Eden's poem...
    Eliza Madrigal: and I considered all the ways water nourishes us....
    Eliza Madrigal: not really thinking... just holding the image
    Eden Haiku: Wishing to wash away any intention and then memorizing that, feeling the position of the body: feet up against the chair, arms crossed, eyes closed, heaviness in the heart
    Eden Haiku: Hi Arch! How are you tonite? We have been experimenting with the 90 secs.
    Archmage Atlantis: The heart need not be heavy
    Eliza Madrigal: Calvino? Thoughts?
    Calvino Rabeni: In the pause, I noticed a lot of identification with "the body". The desire was survival.
    Archmage Atlantis: That is quite good to be doing Eden
    Eliza Madrigal: survival? perhaps feeling ill makes those kinds of feeling more apparant
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah.
    Calvino Rabeni: but it is there regardless of illness
    Archmage Atlantis: Quite interesting Eliza, that observation
    Eliza Madrigal: thanks Arch.. one thing I'm paying attention to are energy movements and levels... and discomfort really brings that to the forefront doesn't it?
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a good thing for that
    Eden Haiku: My second note after a 9 secs at 13h15, while opening the pantry to get some tea: «conversation input. His voice is tired, Why?»
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, it makes me understand why I say here, and do not yet leave
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Tools, Portals, Objects of Awareness...

    Eliza Madrigal: there are so many things in our environment that can be tools and portals for awareness... things we carry around all the time but don't see
    Eliza Madrigal: tired, in someone's voice, for instance
    Eliza Madrigal: or a dull ache in a shoulder... a sticky key on a keyboard
    Archmage Atlantis: This is the transhumanist flaw in thinking, I believe......that all can be perfected
    Archmage Atlantis: Or a deity or AI will provide perfection
    Eliza Madrigal: or should be... maybe our ideas of perfection are awry
    Eden Haiku: ys, little things that can open worlds of understanding, recognition, awareness, insights.
    Calvino Rabeni: Eliza, that is nice - almonst anything will do.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles... we're overrun with riches
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    Archmage Atlantis: One of the first questions I asked a wise man was does sufffering have meaning
    Calvino Rabeni: like, wow
    Eden Haiku: And?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: I had to find my own answer
    Calvino Rabeni: for instance, are there "bad" emotions?
    Calvino Rabeni: you oftn hear the term - negative emotions, negativity
    Calvino Rabeni: someone suffering
    Archmage Atlantis: It does for me
    Archmage Atlantis: Have meaning
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, interesting question... our challenges can be great teachers
    Archmage Atlantis: It points the way to greater belief
    Calvino Rabeni: what are you (anyone) here for?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, Arch... yes as though you have to look in ways you never thought of before
    Archmage Atlantis: Agree Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: when things become really impossible.. then what... pushed off the cliff..then what :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Then one discovers one can fly
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: I'm here because I love talking with people and I love the people I meet here ;-) Play as being as fun!
    Eliza Madrigal: We're approaching the pause again...
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden, so nice to have you here :)
    Calvino Rabeni: indeed it is
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Thanks Eliza. You are sweet!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Eden Haiku: The tattooed man!
    Archmage Atlantis:

    In the moment of the gong

    Those gathered saw

     What they saw was eternity

    this is a vision

     small in nature

     large in meaning
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, lovely Arch!
    Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Steve
    Eden Haiku: Beautiful Arch!
    Eliza Madrigal: We're just coming out of a pause... paying attention to transitions into the pauses...and the place 'before intention'
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Eliza Madrigal is enjoying the current influx of poetry to PaB :)
    Eden Haiku: Good summary Eliza. It is getting clearer is',it? For me it is ;-)
    Calvino Rabeni: Intention isn't to be inhibited, is an insight during that one
    Eden Haiku: Interesting.
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I think it is getting clearer... and Calvino's line makes sense... just let it bubble up and see...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm :)
    Calvino Rabeni: from the WOK meet about energy - to go along
    Eliza Madrigal: So when the energy arises... walk around with it... see where it takes us...
    Eden Haiku: During the pause, I felt the freindliness here, in this circle and it reminded me of the definition of PaB on the wiki. Something like «we are a circle of friends functioning as an open-source». Let me check the exact wording...
    Calvino Rabeni: mmhmm
    Calvino Rabeni: is the chat log for WOK available?
    Eliza Madrigal: Not quite yet Calvino :)
    Eliza Madrigal: It will be in the next few days I'm sure
    Eden Haiku: What is Wok?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ways of Knowing workshop....
    Calvino Rabeni: Ways of Knowing workshop
    Eliza Madrigal: at Kira on Thursdays 2PM
    Eden Haiku: Ah, thanks...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: We get into a round pan and sizzle
    Eliza Madrigal: Funny how you can hear phrases like "circle of friends' over and over ...and then one day it seems more alive....
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose another example of things in our environment we don't notice... everything a portal
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, everything is a Face also
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm...

    Steve and I discuss Steven, a bit... then Stephen, later. Did I mention my RL name is Stephenie...

    stevenaia Michinaga: http://ways-of-knowing.wik.is/4Transcripts
    Calvino Rabeni: TY
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Steve
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't think this week is up yet... last two weeks were open discussion, but interesting too :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Blessings to you Stevenaia
    stevenaia Michinaga: 11.12 was the last posting
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, thanks
    Eliza Madrigal: It is a gift of a workshop... I look forward to it all week
    Eliza Madrigal: Stim is such a clear person
    stevenaia Michinaga: it was a pleasure meeting him
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eliza Madrigal: When did you meet Steve?
    Eliza Madrigal: Or rather meet, Steve? haha
    stevenaia Michinaga: about a year ago at the 1st Princeton Retreat
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes Steve met Steve
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah! Yes I got to meet him this time.. a real pleasure
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah... yes I guess it works either way
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: One of the things we were talking about this week though, are natural energy levels...
    stevenaia Michinaga: but I agree with your discription of him
    Eliza Madrigal: so that seemed to extend here a bit tonight... seemed applicable
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden, did you find your quote?
    Eliza Madrigal: Okay.... I have to share something... You know they have the large hadron collider running again today...
    stevenaia Michinaga: we do now
    Eliza Madrigal: Steven (seems like a Steve theme session) Colbert did a hilarious skit about it....
    Eliza Madrigal: http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/2...dron-collider/
    Eden Haiku: Still looking... did I dreamed it?;-)... (PAUSE) Wow! I felt a lot during this pause, and danced it (seated) withb large movements in front of my screen, breathing deeply. Weird but I just went for it, following it. It was very realeasing, pleasurable and almost thoughtless...
    Archmage Atlantis: So, if we travel in time, so what?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oooooh Eden... that is lovely... thoughtless takes on a new dimension

    Seems I really did sidetrack things, but it is awfully interesting...

    Eden Haiku: tell us more Eliza about the collider?
    Eliza Madrigal: The colbert thing is a light thing... but what is funny is that he is talking about the future sabotaging the effort
    Eden Haiku: how so?
    Eliza Madrigal: which is what some scientists have said is happening
    Archmage Atlantis: That is logical Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: I think it is a funny idea... but enjoy the playfulness of the arguments
    Archmage Atlantis: That the future would wish the past to change, or not change
    Eliza Madrigal: It is an intersting idea... and truthfully, the idea of finding the 'source' is a little frightening if one doesn't understand the science of it all...
    Eliza Madrigal: which of course this one doesn't...heheh
    Eden Haiku: Years ago, I heard thi wise man telling us that flying saucers where human beings from the fruture coming to us to say hello...
    Archmage Atlantis: The science is only a tool
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, Arch... as we talked about everything is a tool
    Archmage Atlantis: It is the spirit that finally decides

    Conversations have a way of morphing when we reach beyond the hour, and Eden shares a vision... 

    Eliza Madrigal: :) Well...maybe we go back before intention... sorry if I took us on a side course...
    Eden Haiku: I experimented something of the sort myself. A freind of mine told me I had experinced «an expansion of consciousness» when I told him the story.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree with your friend
    Eden Haiku: Future me coming to past me to lead me a year before...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, as in a dream?
    Calvino Rabeni: AFK awhile :)(don't ask me anything!)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe...was just about to ask where you were Calvino
    Eden Haiku: No. Doing meditation in Tibetan monastery in England one morning, we had to visualize ourselfes as Manjushri sending rays of red and yellow beams of light throughout the world.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh.. wow was just reading about Manjushri this evening... go on?
    Archmage Atlantis: Last male left in the forum, ah well
    Eliza Madrigal smiles..the other guys are here...just kind of um... slumped :)
    Archmage Atlantis: away
    Eden Haiku: I saw myself in a field one year before, with friends, at a theater festival, scared to death that I was going to die. I was «hearing» a voice in the sky I was telling my friends. Thatb voice was me (as Manjushri) a year later...
    Archmage Atlantis: not their discussion
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, funny when time seems to fold like that
    Eden Haiku: Just noticed the screen girls. :) They are funny...
    Eliza Madrigal: you have a moment you seemed to have had before in some other context
    Eliza Madrigal: for me mostly that is about dreams... this was a meditative vision for you Eden?
    Eliza Madrigal: sound vision, as it were?
    Archmage Atlantis: I keep sharing this prose/poe,
    Archmage Atlantis: poe
    Eden Haiku: Yes, time folding on itself, Well said Eliza. And now this scientist saying the collider is sabotaging itself from the future. ;-) My God!
    Eliza Madrigal grins... "Tomorrow ate my homework"
    Eliza Madrigal: My son would use that excuse for sure
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: I apologize if you have hear it before
    Eden Haiku: That is a good one... Yes Eliza: my experince was part pot, part meditation...
    stevenaia Michinaga: night, sleep has arrived
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Steve :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles... well... not sure what to say to that Eden...haha
    Eden Haiku: Alreday 11h15 here...I will have to go too. Nice being with you Eliza, Arch, Steve-already-gone and Calvino-away! See you! ;-)
    Eden Haiku: The pot part was many years ago;-)))
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Eden. so nice to see you tonight....
    Eliza Madrigal: She inspires me to write poetry :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, I should go...quite late for me too

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