2009.11.21 01:00 - Knowledge

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Qt!
    Qt Core: Hi Scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: how are you this morning?
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Arch!
    Qt Core: quite good, 10am and shopping is already done ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Qt Core: hi Arch
    Archmage Atlantis: Hi Scat, Hi QT
    Scathach Rhiadra: how are you today Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: I have been having a difficult week, so that means that there are things for me to learn :)
    Archmage Atlantis: And you Scath
    Archmage Atlantis: ?
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, there are always things for us all to learn:)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, some are more difficult that others tho :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Calvino
    Qt Core: Hi Calvino
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello, Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Rhi, QT and Arch!
    Scathach Rhiadra: so, has anybody a topic they would like to discuss?
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, perhaps. Is this about spiritual?
    Calvino Rabeni: THis group and endeavor.
    Calvino Rabeni: And how do you hold it?
    Archmage Atlantis: I suppose, retaining practice when RL is difficult, and that is indeed spiritual
    Scathach Rhiadra: good question, does it seem spiritual to you?
    Calvino Rabeni: (considering)
    Qt Core: mmm, i usually can't separate spiritual and religion so, if this is the case no, it isn't
    Qt Core: for me, that is
    Scathach Rhiadra nods at arch, retaining practice during the good and the bad does seem spiritual to me
    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, for me religion is just a method of approaching the spiritual
    Archmage Atlantis: Personal thought of course
    Calvino Rabeni: Is it scientific (also)?
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you have a goal or quest?
    Archmage Atlantis: Sometimes science can be, but for me that is more of logic and the mind generally
    Calvino Rabeni: I know this is vague. But interesting to look at.
    Qt Core: using big word... knowledge and peace of mind
    Calvino Rabeni: Gnosos, Qt?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, I suppose that depends on the person, some approach the practice scientifically, some in a more spiritual manner?
    Calvino Rabeni: Scath, are certain objectives implied in those two approaches?
    Archmage Atlantis: QT, knowlege is often the source of concerns for me.....then resolution comes from within
    Calvino Rabeni: Sorry, I sound Socratic.
    Archmage Atlantis: Socrates was a brilliant entity
    Qt Core: don't know, calvino, never really tried to define myself (to be honest even if i can grasp the meaning of the term i can't understand it in this context)
    Calvino Rabeni: those words dont define us as much as point to a quality or mode of knowing
    Qt Core: an interesting question, ignorance or knowledge is the biggest source of concerns/trouble/pain
    Qt Core: ?
    Archmage Atlantis: To me, Socrates never forgot that he did not, and could not know all, but he could still ask questions
    Scathach Rhiadra: I think there must be some goal, even very subtle, otherwise how would anyone start on this path, whether scientific or spiritual?
    Calvino Rabeni: Like, are you inside the knowledge, or are you looking at it from the outside as a structure.
    Calvino Rabeni: S - of course, but it might be very particular for each person
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Calvino Rabeni: very suble yes. it is hard to see in oneself, because implicit.
    Archmage Atlantis: So, Calvino, would another way to say that be that "one can live it, or examine it, both not both at once?"
    Calvino Rabeni: S - if there is a path, where does it go?
    Calvino Rabeni: Thinking through metaphors.
    Scathach Rhiadra: well, it could be a path to knowledge of what is already present, not 'going' anywhere really
    Calvino Rabeni: so would the traveler be changed by the journey?
    Calvino Rabeni: Like, vastly clever, or some other quality?
    Scathach Rhiadra: changed or maybe revealed more fully
    Calvino Rabeni: WOuld it help solve puzzles or peoples ethical dilemmas?
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertrum!
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi bert welcome
    Bertrum Quan: Hi everyone.
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree Scat, still we are not able, or designed, to see that total path, in my opinion
    Archmage Atlantis: Therefore we strugglle
    Qt Core: hi bert
    Archmage Atlantis: Hiya Bert
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Calvino Rabeni: But then it is an act of faith that the "total path" exists.
    Archmage Atlantis: Agree, it is an act of faith/belief.......and not the only one possilbe
    Calvino Rabeni: OK
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Calvino Rabeni: the bodhisatva stays in the world. A nice mythic type.
    Calvino Rabeni: Is this part of the flavor of PAB? I am a newbie to it.
    Qt Core: rl calling, bye all
    Bertrum Quan: bye QT
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Qt, have a good day!
    Archmage Atlantis: Bye QT
    Archmage Atlantis: For me, PaB a form of pratice.....not practice in the since of established method...but a method none the less
    Archmage Atlantis: To see more deeply
    Calvino Rabeni: When you do the method, do you forego the "ultimate" in order to apprehend the "ordinary"?
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and the conversations can be of various types, from thetrivial to the sublime, so to speak:)
    Archmage Atlantis: And to hear others share honestly so I may learn
    Calvino Rabeni: Sharing experiences.
    Scathach Rhiadra: is that not assuming a difference between ultimate and ordinary, Calvino?
    Calvino Rabeni: Many people assume that. And if they do, it would affect their practice.
    Scathach Rhiadra: knowledge of the true nature of the ordinary may be knowledge of the ultimate?
    Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense to me.
    Calvino Rabeni: But every day we make zillions of choices about what to attend to.
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Calvino Rabeni: And it doesn't hae a neutral effect, so it kind of matters
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean, the attending structures the objects that are seen.
    Archmage Atlantis: So for me, this practice says "take a brief moment to see outside the normal choices one makes"
    Drik Dionysus: hi
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello again Drik
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Drik
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeti, you look like a "Resident".
    Drik Dionysus: yep
    Scathach Rhiadra: that is a good description of the practice Arch:)
    Calvino Rabeni: Drik, I think this is the first time I ever felt "Eye contact" in SL.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Drik Dionysus: i see
    Calvino Rabeni: No mouth, cannot eat. Except images.
    Scathach Rhiadra: no ears , no sounds?
    Calvino Rabeni: A modernist.
    Drik Dionysus: you can hear without ears, i think
    Archmage Atlantis: Many animals hear sounds without having ears
    Drik Dionysus: sound is just a vibration :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah true
    Archmage Atlantis: As is light
    Drik Dionysus: but, no, i can't eat
    Archmage Atlantis: In this we differ, all life eats of some other force, even plants "eat" the energy of the earth and sun.
    Scathach Rhiadra: you could say 'seeing' is not really about seeing images, but about knowing, so eyes may not be necessary
    Calvino Rabeni: so if you were a giant eyeball where would you go for dinner?
    Drik Dionysus: i feed my head with images, in fact
    Calvino Rabeni: are they very nutritious?
    Archmage Atlantis: Images = view
    Calvino Rabeni: Scath, I like that
    Drik Dionysus: all languages are nutritious
    Archmage Atlantis: All life "eats", feeds on other life
    Drik Dionysus: but how many "lifes" there are?
    Archmage Atlantis: The question is are those images given willingly, or simply taken
    Scathach Rhiadra: true Arch, even trees take in the carbon dioxide we expel, seems to be an balanced exchange of life giving between all
    Archmage Atlantis: I agree Scathach
    Calvino Rabeni: Some say thought originated with movement. Humans identify it with words.
    Calvino Rabeni: Can that be looked at as an xperience?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, movements of the mind?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, or of the body as same thing.
    Calvino Rabeni: I never understood, when people say - "I am my thoughts". But I have heard that proposed a lot.
    Calvino Rabeni: As an identification.
    Drik Dionysus: it is absurd
    Calvino Rabeni: Have more Drik?
    Scathach Rhiadra nods, we have thoughts, are not them
    Drik Dionysus: there must be someone that say "my"
    Calvino Rabeni: Can one *move* with intelligence, or is that something that comes in with thinking in words?
    Calvino Rabeni: Because very primitive animals eat and move.
    Scathach Rhiadra: /
    Scathach Rhiadra: but we can also think in images, and you could also say emotions are a type of thought
    Scathach Rhiadra: .
    Bertrum Quan: Need to head back to RL--battery running out! Have a great weekend everyone.
    Calvino Rabeni: they are very intlligent (emotions)
    Scathach Rhiadra: you too, Bertrum
    Archmage Atlantis: Farewell Bartrum
    Calvino Rabeni: Same to you Bert, bye.
    Drik Dionysus: bye bert
    Scathach Rhiadra: and thoughts seem to feed emotions
    Calvino Rabeni: that's worth looking at.
    Scathach Rhiadra: or is ti the other way round?
    Calvino Rabeni: And the other way around.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: This will seem off topic, but vampires and werewolves are much in today's literature
    Calvino Rabeni: It does seem off topic, but I like zombies more than those.
    Scathach Rhiadra: you mean modern literature Arch?
    Archmage Atlantis: I read a series of books that classified vampires into black, red and white
    Drik Dionysus: i thimk that, if you want to use the term "intelligence", you must find a more definte meaning
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, liturature being written no
    Archmage Atlantis: And white vampires fed of of the feelings of others
    Archmage Atlantis: I found it to be a useful metaphor
    Calvino Rabeni: Could you identify with one of those varieties more than the others?
    Archmage Atlantis: Yike, Calvino
    Archmage Atlantis: But I did bring the topic up
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: not to pry too much
    Archmage Atlantis: Ok, I
    Archmage Atlantis: saw in myself a tendency to focus on others issues instead of addressing my own issues
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: I think we all try to avoid addressing our own issues sometimes
    Calvino Rabeni: stories about others are a way of addressing one's own issues indirectly, oftimes.
    Calvino Rabeni: as a kind of story of mthology.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, sometimes indirect is OK though.
    Archmage Atlantis: In groups I agree Calvino, but with close friends and families the tendency is too strong, and prevents learning
    Calvino Rabeni: Dreams - stories we tell ourselves.
    Calvino Rabeni: Well you may be right in that case.
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Calvino Rabeni: But the stories get people warmed up to the direct approach.
    Calvino Rabeni: If only they could take it a bit farther
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, stories have purpose
    Drik Dionysus: bye all
    Scathach Rhiadra: well, I must go, thank you all for a great discussion, have a good weekend:)
    Calvino Rabeni: bood to meet you drik. Like your avatar.
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Drik
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks Scathach
    Drik Dionysus: thx
    Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté

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