2009.11.22 19:00 - Neuro-linguistics Programming

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Eden

    stevenaia Michinaga: I;m still rezzing

    stevenaia Michinaga: on moment

    Eden Haiku: hello Steve. How are you tonight?

    stevenaia Michinaga: good, a nice weekend

    Eden Haiku: Good! me too.

    stevenaia Michinaga: I went to NYC with a friend

    stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t know if you ever met her, she is a dormant guardian at the moment

    Eden Haiku: Oh, it is been so long I have been in NYC. How was it?

    stevenaia Michinaga: Sylectra

    stevenaia Michinaga: it was very nice

    Eden Haiku: No, I never met Sylectra. You know her in RL then?

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, net her in SL and she moved nearby for a friend

    stevenaia Michinaga: how was your weekend?

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Calvino

    Eden Haiku: Good week end: organizing the new aprDid to do 9 secs together in NY?

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi, how are you

    Eden Haiku: *apartment

    Eden Haiku: Hi Calvino!

    Calvino Rabeni: Eden, :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: Are you in NYC, Edan?

    stevenaia Michinaga: Eden

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Doug

    Eden Haiku: No, in Montreal. I used to live in NY, many years ago. For a bit more than a year. I love NY.

    Eden Haiku: HI Doug!

    stevenaia Michinaga: aww, that's what I remembered

    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi doug, it;s has been a while

    doug Sosa: hhhM typing not working..

    doug Sosa: ok, now. yes, a while.

    Eden Haiku: I meant I haven't gone to New York for so long now I wonder how it feels theses days. You seem to have enjoyed it.

    stevenaia Michinaga: I go regularly as I am close

    Eden Haiku: Yes, you live in Philadelphia isn'it?

    stevenaia Michinaga: no, about an hour from Philly

    Eden Haiku: What about You Calvino, are you in the West coast?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, same zone as SL

    doug Sosa: me too, to the extent we can be anywhere while also IN SL :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: nods

    stevenaia Michinaga: anyone one have anything specific they would like to focus on for the 1st 90 second break

    doug Sosa: nope, and i am battery near the end so may find myself disconnected :(

    stevenaia Michinaga: hands Doug a plug and outlet

    Eden Haiku: oh! battery challenged!

    doug Sosa: ah plug in, here a concept.actually charger is in the car and the car is loaned to a friend for the evening.

    stevenaia Michinaga: how has your project progressed, Doug?

    doug Sosa: one forgets thee little vulnerabilities, like not plugged in, disappear!

    Eden Haiku: I'M wondering if I can download Sl on my iPod touch when traveling?

    doug Sosa: lectured to two hundred undergrads fri, first time

    doug Sosa: in thirty years.. really fun

    stevenaia Michinaga: you can log on in a limited way with an iPhone app

    doug Sosa: what happened to all the old anxieties? Gone!

    Eden Haiku: How come such a long gap Doug?

    doug Sosa: too busy consulting.

    stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like a good thing

    doug Sosa: need to leave the university in order to understand it.

    Eden Haiku: Ah, Is it because you became wiser that the anxieties were gone?

    doug Sosa: I think so, can let myself be a performer.

    Eden Haiku: Good feeling.

    Eden Haiku: Before you were wrapped up in the content. What did you lecture about?

    doug Sosa: i did one the night before with about 60, and i didn't like how constrained i fel with my notes, so i started over that night and next morning.

    doug Sosa: amazing, felt no pressure.


    stevenaia Michinaga: nice

    Calvino Rabeni: How about contemplating "performance" in the break?

    doug Sosa: ok

    stevenaia Michinaga: I often see the important of being myself when talking to a crowd, people see through anything else

    stevenaia Michinaga: Performance as presentation

    Eden Haiku: There is a point where I'm so immersed in what I do that I forget everything else and I become one with the public. It happened once very clearly and it was so exhilarating that time that I can still remember the taste of it. It is still an inspiration.

    doug Sosa: i wonder what that per and pre are doing in those words?

    Eden Haiku: *public

    stevenaia Michinaga: what does the linguist in you you tell you about that?

    Calvino Rabeni: Per - I think the public appreciates a per- spective

    doug Sosa: in some kinds of performance there is a triangle: the listeners, the message and the presenter..

    Calvino Rabeni: It is why blogging is so popular

    doug Sosa: what does "per" mean?

    Calvino Rabeni: If you privilege the pre-senter, it transfers to the listeners

    Calvino Rabeni: relative to a focus on the message

    doug Sosa: i like it when they are in balance I think.

    stevenaia Michinaga: per- (Latin: through, across, over; beyond, by means of).

    Calvino Rabeni: Well some presentations seem almost content-free, and people still like it

    doug Sosa: ah scholar that one!

    doug Sosa: that "per" makes a performance rather grand.

    Calvino Rabeni: Pre - sent - ation

    doug Sosa: through me across to you over the top, beyond expectations, all by means of my little speechifying.

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes that is it

    Calvino Rabeni: PRe sent -- before we feel something

    doug Sosa: so pre-sentation?

    doug Sosa: (this is really good!)

    Calvino Rabeni: yes


    Eden mentions  Neuro-linguistics programming


    Eden Haiku: Obly 7% of communication goes through words according to LPN.

    stevenaia Michinaga: LPN?

    Eden Haiku: Neuro-linguistics programming,

    stevenaia Michinaga: thx

    Calvino Rabeni: NLP typically

    Calvino Rabeni: If you want to look it up

    Eden Haiku: 38% of the message goes through the tone of voice, 55% through body-language.

    Eden Haiku: Yes, in French the acronym is different, I mixed up words, sorry.

    Calvino Rabeni: Want link?

    doug Sosa: I used to tell my student therapists to listen/watch their clients as if the therapist did not understand the language and had to rely on sight and body and tone.

    Calvino Rabeni: http://nlpuniversitypress.com/index.html

    Calvino Rabeni: doug are you an NLP trainer

    doug Sosa: no way. i think they are fascists. sorry. the aim is manipulation, not 'truth"

    Calvino Rabeni: there is that aspect of it

    Calvino Rabeni: do you favor contemplative therapy?

    Eden Haiku: As avatars, we have no tone of voice (here at least), scripted body-language. But we have words. And typos. And something else which goes between the silences.

    doug Sosa: basically yes. but also somewhat active. "tell me your story until you hesitate - then we inquire.."

    Eden Haiku: Doug, isn'it a bit strong to say that NLP trainers are fascists;-)?


    doug Sosa: Oh avatars have incredible personalities - unfortunately often unrelated to their owner

    doug Sosa: M NLP experiences go back thirty years, not recent.

    doug Sosa: M=My

    Calvino Rabeni: are you currently in some kind of therapeutic profession?

    doug Sosa: sure. my kind of psychoanalyst. Erik Erikson, Erich Fromm, plus me.

    Calvino Rabeni: I see.

    doug Sosa: (wondering what he sees?)

    stevenaia Michinaga: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Archmage

    Calvino Rabeni: Just guessing - doesn't seem like a manipulative approach, is that right?

    Calvino Rabeni: Roughly speaking

    doug Sosa: I try.

    doug Sosa: hi arch :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Hello, Arch!

    Eden Haiku: Good evening Archmage! How are you?

    Archmage Atlantis: I am as I am

    doug Sosa: my battery is yelling at me, plug me in! i tried to explain but it doesn't get it.

    Eden Haiku: ;-)

    Calvino Rabeni: It is asking for anintervention

    Archmage Atlantis: Thank you for your greeting

    stevenaia Michinaga: try coercion

    doug Sosa: so need to take the initiative.. bye.

    Calvino Rabeni: Bye

    stevenaia Michinaga: bye doug

    stevenaia Michinaga: that was a very confusing discussion for me not knowing anything about NLP

    Calvino Rabeni: well it is an interesting topic

    Eden Haiku: Bye Doug!

    Archmage Atlantis: NLP?

    stevenaia Michinaga: Neuro-linguistics programming,

    Calvino Rabeni: NLP might be considered a form of psychotherapy similar to hypnosis, but with a systematic structure

    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, that makes sense

    Eden Haiku: We were talking about the fact that there is so much more than words in communication, bottomline...

    Calvino Rabeni: It attempts to be based on a theory of perception and thinking as a language of actions

    Calvino Rabeni: That's not really clear, but it is a little mechanical

    Calvino Rabeni: like the analysis of a mind as a processor of sensory information

    Calvino Rabeni: And doug's complaint was probably more about the character of its practitioners

    Archmage Atlantis: It is like why I choose the piecses of mu av

    Calvino Rabeni: It has a kind of manipulative methodology, and that has attracted a certain style of people

    Eden Haiku: That is quite a statement Calvino...

    Calvino Rabeni: And then a stule of marketing that seems a but off-putting to many, myself included

    Calvino Rabeni: How so, eden?

    Eden Haiku: Just read your sentence.

    Calvino Rabeni: WHich one, which part of it do you fix on?

    Eden Haiku: « It has a kind of manipulative methodology, and that has attracted a certain style of people»

    Calvino Rabeni: Do you do NLP?

    Eden Haiku: Why?

    Calvino Rabeni: In case you found the statement offensive

    Eden Haiku: It is offensive, isn'it?

    Calvino Rabeni: I guess it is, to you.

    Eden Haiku: Well, people who assert truths like that are offensive to me, yes.

    Calvino Rabeni: SOrry, I may bear that in mind.

    Calvino Rabeni: It is an opinion

    Archmage Atlantis: We are as we are

    Archmage Atlantis: We all see differently

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, we don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.


    stevenaia Michinaga: are you saying that it may not be the only truth?

    Eden Haiku: Exactly.

    Calvino Rabeni: ANyway, I like NLP as a theory, but have reservations in practice

    Archmage Atlantis: To examine, to question ....this is who we are, I think

    Calvino Rabeni: always

    Calvino Rabeni: anyway Eden,sorry to give offense - but I think I stopped short of using a word like fascist

    Eden Haiku: I'm just careful with words.

    Calvino Rabeni: That is a caring way to be

    Archmage Atlantis: Ah, fascist;;;;; what does that mean?

    Eden Haiku: That is all we have here at Pab: no tone if voice, no body-language. Words. We have to thread carefully.

    Archmage Atlantis: I think to confront the words has more meaning

    Calvino Rabeni: I think, we allow a lot of space around the words.

    Calvino Rabeni: And hold them lightly, because we don't know the surround as well

    Eden Haiku: Right. Silence is very important here.

    Archmage Atlantis: Words are only symbols

    Calvino Rabeni: If you use a strong word - feel free to do it sometimes, and I will give it a big surround

    Eden Haiku: Steve, maybe a little onigokko, can you start it? ;-)

    stevenaia Michinaga: lol

    stevenaia Michinaga: onigokko

    stevenaia Michinaga: stop

    stevenaia Michinaga: takes the edge off

    Calvino Rabeni: yes

    Eden Haiku: Thanks Steve, I feel lighter!

    stevenaia Michinaga: jsut wear it

    stevenaia Michinaga: onigokko

    stevenaia Michinaga: stop

    stevenaia Michinaga: is that like NLP?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    stevenaia Michinaga: hehe

    Eden Haiku: Yes, that is NLP Steve ;-)

    Eden Haiku: Using movement to let go of words...

    stevenaia Michinaga: much easier to understand the system when framed in this way

    stevenaia Michinaga: onigokko

    Archmage Atlantis: That is reconnection

    stevenaia Michinaga: stop

    Eden Haiku: How do you start it Steve?

    stevenaia Michinaga: just type the word

    stevenaia Michinaga: "onigokko"

    Eden Haiku: onigokko

    Eden Haiku: Wow, I have been thinking you need to be the guardian or whatever to start it!

    Eden Haiku: stop

    stevenaia Michinaga: nope

    Calvino Rabeni: stevenaia, I see no mouse tail in you

    Eden Haiku: Very Democratic japanese devil!

    Archmage Atlantis: It is a good peace giving

    Eden Haiku: It is Arch, it is!

    stevenaia Michinaga: I have one what I wear else wear

    Archmage Atlantis: Still the hard questions remain

    Calvino Rabeni: can I have that version, S.?

    Eden Haiku: You might me the only one who remembers what they are. Could you instruct us?

    stevenaia Michinaga: no, it;s not transferable it seems


    Archmage Atlantis: My I speak for what I think I have learned?

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes Arch?

    Eden Haiku: Sure.

    Archmage Atlantis: And Cal?

    Calvino Rabeni: Oh yes, thx for asking. Please go ahead

    Eden Haiku: Calvino, the other day you asked us in the circle why what were our reasons for being here. May I return the question? What is your reason to being here ?

    Eden Haiku: *for being.

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, but I want to gather my thoughts

    Eden Haiku: Sure, after running like that ;-) We are listening Arch.

    Archmage Atlantis: Many thoughts have come to me

    Archmage Atlantis: I wish to express them

    Eden Haiku: listens

    Calvino Rabeni: THis group has intelligent, interesting people with good insights, and ideas, bot most important to me, an openness about questioning, and along with it, relaxing the insistence on making questions into conclusions. I like all of that. I like to be around it and find it helpful.

    Eden Haiku: Good! Thanks Calvino!

    Eden Haiku: Arch?

    Calvino Rabeni: When I read stuff by Piet framing up the idea for the group, I find myself agreeing with the sense of it in many ways.

    Calvino Rabeni: That is it

    Archmage Atlantis: Please five me a moment.....this body does not always follow my mind

    Eden Haiku: Sure...

    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, but the log will continue :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: night Arch, Eden, Cal

    Calvino Rabeni: Have a good week, Steve

    Seems the chat ended after I left...

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