2009.12.06 08:00 - Facilitation & Mentoring

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    There were ten guardians present at our weekly meeting: Arabella, Calvino, Eden, Eliza, Genesis, Maxine, Riddle, Stevenaia, Wol, and Yakuzza.

    Comments by Eliza Madrigal. :)  

    Eliza Madrigal waves to Eden wayyy over there.....
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: :) hello
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya, Cal :)
    Eden Haiku: Hi!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Eliza and all
    Maxine Walden: nice to see everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: You too, Maxine :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden made me want to wear my zen robes :)))
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Maxine Walden: hi, Wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    Wol Euler: and henna hand tattoos, nice.
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Maxine Walden: ahh, zen robes...maybe we all will become wiser in your company
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, well
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Maxine Walden: :))
    Eden Haiku: Just created a nice salutation new gesture to go with the robe but it vanished...
    Maxine Walden: ahh
    Calvino Rabeni: I have one, if you want it Eden
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_

    Maxine gets us started, and I thank Wol and Steve who have offered to give time and attention to helping our new guardians learn the ropes...

    Maxine Walden: any guardian or other related issues we would like to consider today?
    Maxine Walden: (at this guardian meeting)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm looks like we may be a small group today, but I want to thank Wol (and Steve wherever he is) for the help with mentoring they've offered
    Eden Haiku: Yes, Calvino, you gave it to me before and I was trying to link it with a bow but the new gesture morphed into something else..._/!\_
    Wol Euler smiles
    Eden Haiku: Yes, thank you so much Wol!
    Maxine Walden: indeed, Wol deserves all our thanks for the mentoring and other care she offers in so many ways
    Wol Euler blushes.
    Eliza Madrigal nods, indeed
    Eden Haiku: Yaku is still sleepy...
    Eliza Madrigal: It helps a lot. I still have issues with tech things all the time, and it is good to feel one is not being a bother :)
    Wol Euler: on the contrary, I love doing it.
    Maxine Walden: right. Wol is so generous with her help
    Eden Haiku: _/!\_
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, other than that... Thanks to Eden for taking on a guardian slot, and Cal a scribe :)))
    Eliza Madrigal: The waters are circulating :)
    Calvino Rabeni: YW
    Eden Haiku: _/!\_
    Maxine Walden: yes, many thanks Eden and Cal
    Eden Haiku: _/!\_
    Eden Haiku: You are most welcome.
    Maxine Walden: sometimes just being together sharing a silence is very meaningful
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes :)
    Eden Haiku: It is.

    Ways of knowing each other better, and understanding the role of the Working Group...

    Eliza Madrigal: I'm thinking in the moment here, but is it too formal an idea to perhaps open an email topic where everyone gives one suggestion toward what they are interested in within PaB... or what topics resonate in particular?
    Eden Haiku: Open an email topic?
    Calvino Rabeni: I like that initiative - I have a recent email with Piet about that
    Calvino Rabeni: He was filling me in a bit about history of the group
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Cal? Ah
    Calvino Rabeni: and various things that ware tried
    Calvino Rabeni: Could you say a little about the WG and what they do for oversight ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes Eden... that way guardians are communicating across session lines...
    Eden Haiku: Ah, ty...
    Wol Euler: independent of timezones too
    Eden Haiku: WG?
    Calvino Rabeni: Working Group - kind of took over for Piet, I think
    Maxine Walden: hi, Ara
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Maxine Walden: and hi Steve
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: morning all
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :)
    Wol Euler: wb yaku's teacup
    arabella Ella: Hiya Steve
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thx :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Maxine Walden: Yes, Eden, as Piet began to distribute the many tasks he had been carrying for about 18 months he involved a Working Group of 5 other people, Eliza and me included, to begin to carry some of those tasks, but also to discuss which tasks should be altered, dropped, shared, etc. The current WG is scheduled to go til about April and then maybe another group. We are trying to balance doing the detailed work needed but also being as transparent with the guardians as possible without being too intrusive or bothersome with sharing the details
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gen :)
    Wol Euler: hello gen
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gen
    genesis Zhangsun: Hey!
    Maxine Walden: hi, gen
    arabella Ella: Hiya Gen
    Eden Haiku: Thank you Maxine, it is very clear now ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Gen
    Maxine Walden: glad so, Eden
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, thanks Maxine. You described the process very well
    arabella Ella: Does the WG meet weekly?
    Eden Haiku: Hi Genesis!
    Maxine Walden: yes, it does, ara
    arabella Ella: ah
    arabella Ella: i am sure most of us who may be less involved really appreciate all the hard work you all put into this thanks :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: do you think things wil get more complex or simpler with time? to initially distribute the task of one to many
    Eliza Madrigal: And the agenda/minutes are posted on the wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Working_Group
    arabella Ella: it is not easy to sustain a group like this
    arabella Ella: oh ty

    Steve makes an interesting observation!

    stevenaia Michinaga: sounds like we are a high maintenance group, I would certainly hope not
    Maxine Walden: ah, yes, and thanks, Eliza for the link to the minutes. We are trying to be transparent with these posted minutes
    arabella Ella: that's not what i meant Steve, but even in RL it is difficult to maintain any group let alone a group as diverse and spread out geographically as we are ... and with so many PaB sessions too!
    Eden Haiku: I agree with Ara, this is quite an accomplishment!
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you very much, Ara, and no Steve I don't think it is that we are high maintenance necessarily....
    Maxine Walden: No, Steve, think the high maintainance is as much for the process of transition of leadership or the sharing of details and re-thinking in order to allow transition to proceed as seemlessly as possible. And with all of us being human we run into personal issues, perspectives, etc so we are trying to be open to each other and share our various perspectives
    Eliza Madrigal: but that Pema has been very devoted so there is much to learn :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: arabella, my question was general in nature, not specifically related to your comment
    arabella Ella: :)
    Maxine Walden: ...share our various persepctives and try to learn....all of this while also trying to stay as open as we can, just as we try to do in our PaB practices

    Many aspects of PlayasBeing...

    Calvino Rabeni: PAB sessions are the main activity of course, but a question I have is about theme sessions or special groups
    Eliza Madrigal: Steve, now that you are here I want to thank you for offering mentoring. We began the session discussing that a bit, and how appreciated it is that you and Wol would give that time.
    Calvino Rabeni: Because some things could benefit from a specific focus
    Eliza Madrigal: Hopefully everyone can contribute in ways they enjoy... and find joy in the ways they contribute :))))
    Maxine Walden: :))), Eliza, well said!
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Eliza, I realize by my schedule I may be suited to such task in temperment as well
    stevenaia Michinaga: not that I really know what I'm doing, of course
    Maxine Walden: :))), Steve
    Eliza Madrigal: yes I remember that you jumped in to help me at the very start, Steve

    Lightness, but Steve makes another good point, conjuring for me stories of ancient trees in a changing area, and things they may have seen... 

    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if the fountain in the Playgota is a better fountain because it's been there a long time
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: I bet it thinks it is
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    Wol Euler: it might be less inclined to sweat over the small stuff, and better able to judge what *is* small stuff, than a new fountain
    Maxine Walden: indeed, Wol!!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm, yes indeed
    stevenaia Michinaga: well hope future "hosts" show up
    stevenaia Michinaga: I bring the cookies as enticements

    Focus and Theme sessions...

    Wol Euler: Calvino, to return to your point about special focus and theme sessions: these are fairly frequent, for example there will be one on YSBS next tuesday at 1pm
    Calvino Rabeni: I heard there has been a back and forth about how much to focus the PAB session
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, read my mind Wol
    Wol Euler: most of them arose fairly spontaneously because somebody raised a question that couldn't be answered adequately in the back-and-forth of a normal open session
    Calvino Rabeni: But it makes sense to me for that to be rather unfocused and for other meets to hold a specific focus
    Calvino Rabeni: There might be themes of enduring interest, not quite of the status of the Kira workshops but worth sticking with over time
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    stevenaia Michinaga: also people with special knowledge (themes) helps us all see things in new ways
    Eden Haiku: Back to your question from the start Eliza: I'm thinking in the moment here, but is it too formal an idea to perhaps open an email topic where everyone gives one suggestion toward what they are interested in within PaB... or what topics resonate in particular?
    Eden Haiku: That was Eliza speaking.
    Wol Euler: ((nature break, brb))
    Eliza Madrigal: Cal, Eos and I organized a book chat for a little while, in the village, which lasted just a few weeks...
    Eden Haiku: I would have a suggestion,
    Eliza Madrigal: and that sort of thing is very welcome, too
    arabella Ella: i wonder whether Calvino and Eden could share their suggestions here?
    Maxine Walden: would hope so, ara
    arabella Ella: (was not sure whether it would have been off topic)
    Calvino Rabeni: The email sounds like a good idea for working with collecting those interests
    Calvino Rabeni: I have many interests, but to choose the top couple - would be facilitation and culture (in a consciousness context)
    Calvino Rabeni: FOlowed by technology, but that is of less interest to the group I think


    Eden Haiku: What interested me the most in the PaB session from the beginning is the quality of empathy I found there. But I,m not sure I understand if this is what you are asking us this morning Eliza...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Eden... sure it can be anything!! Surely Empathy!
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: It was just a thought about everyone kind of bringing forward what moves them personally, etc
    Calvino Rabeni: Many overlaps of course - empathy is a major thing in facilitation
    Calvino Rabeni: How people think together
    Calvino Rabeni: What makes it work and enjoyable / creative
    arabella Ella: would you also say that facilitation has an overlap with both mentoring and coaching?
    Eden Haiku: I have been working on my boundaries lately and a circle of empathic people as PaB seems to be is just what I need to hone my skills.
    Calvino Rabeni: completely
    Maxine Walden: hi,Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: SHHH, QUIETLY SITS
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Riddle :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And maybe co-facilitation, which has already been happening
    Eden Haiku: Hello quietly seated Riddle;-)

    Maxine's sentences often have such texture, and one really gets a feel for the kind of gentle, nurturing space she describes...  

    Maxine Walden: our openness and respect for each others while also keeping our boundaries so we can allow our own thoughts to develop...these may be some of the things we experience which are facilitating
    Eden Haiku: Sounds true to me.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes those sound foundational
    Eden Haiku: Foundational? very creative way of speaking ;-)
    Eden Haiku: Fundamental and transnational and rational?
    Maxine Walden: I have found it interesting to consider how to be open and learn from each other, but also allow our own thoughts to occur; sort of semi-permeable boundaries re our thinnking and feeling, at least for me

    Gen picks up on Arabella's question about mentoring, and we discuss how this might begin to take shape...

    Genesis Zhangsun: Ara's earlier question re facilitation v. mentoring/coaching is a good one- so would we see mentoring as more active than facilitation, I assume so
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, a multi-level thinking
    Eliza Madrigal nods..semi-permeable is a fitting term
    Calvino Rabeni: More personal
    Eden Haiku: For me it is more a matter of emotional boundaries Maxine. As I am a clearsentient, I have to learn how to protect myself.
    arabella Ella: do you mean more one to one Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: Sounds like a personal door, open, closed, semi permeable (screen door)
    Eden Haiku: Ni ce meatphor Steve ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes so an empathetic environment is safety, Eden, in a sense...
    Eden Haiku: *Metaphor
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice typo
    Eden Haiku: Yes, also a wonderful place to learn.
    Eliza Madrigal: safety to be open... a kind of freedom :)
    genesis Zhangsun: so how would we see mentoring as different from the usual semi permeable way of being in PaB sessions, or is there no distinction?
    Eden Haiku: Mkes me feel light!
    Calvino Rabeni: It is different
    stevenaia Michinaga: mentoring can be task focused
    Calvino Rabeni: PAB is a practice of openness, mostly
    Calvino Rabeni: Like steve said.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: learning to host, leaning to YsBs, etc
    Calvino Rabeni: Facilitation and mentoring can include focuses on topics tasks or learning themes
    Calvino Rabeni: Using the openness skills practiced in PAB sessions
    Calvino Rabeni: applying them in specific intentions
    Calvino Rabeni: You have a lot of intelligence mustered in the open state
    Calvino Rabeni: It can be used to advance underestanding of chosen things
    genesis Zhangsun: perhaps the openess is even more important to maintain within the mentor relationship so that mentees feel supported but free to explore in their own way
    Calvino Rabeni: true I think
    stevenaia Michinaga: this far, except for themed session, this has been a very flexible group, with new topics arising as the winds shift, much to learn from that as well
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, so are we leaning toward beginning mentoring sessions/learning ropes... and then leading into more learning the frameworks of specific practices.. re posting logs but then as Steve mentioned YsBs?
    Eliza Madrigal is trying to visualize the form taking shape

    Will mentoring sessions address PaB practices specifically?

    Wol Euler: I have to admit I had only considered the being-a-guardian aspects :) but I suppose I could try to help with learning the practices too
    Calvino Rabeni: ALso in a bigger vision - of what PAB or Kira is about
    genesis Zhangsun: yes that part Wol seems a little tricky- though I have the utmost confidence in you and Steve :)
    arabella Ella: yes me too :)
    Maxine Walden: echo gen's comment
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think it will be intersting to see who comes to theme sessions, which seemed to have a big turnout, who will come to host mentoring sessions, I suspect timing will be critical for attendance of people who are interested
    genesis Zhangsun: what could you two see as some possible challenges of the more advanced mentoring?
    Eliza Madrigal: Well that's what I wonder... how we engage with the practices changes day to day, but I guess we might make a handy file or something, with links to explanations, etc
    stevenaia Michinaga: *mentoring
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, true Steve
    Wol Euler: well, to be blunt: my ability to do it.
    Eliza Madrigal: There are some of these things, but someone answering questions directly is crucial
    Eliza Madrigal: yes

    We often talk about 'beginner's mind', and it is a gift to keep that. I'm never one to knock decades of discipline, but was quite sincere in my comment ahead... 

    Wol Euler: I'm not an experienced meditator, compared to those wiht decades of RL experience and many retreats attended etc
    Eliza Madrigal: That makes you all the more qualified in some ways Wol!
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: giggles, noticed that wol
    genesis Zhangsun: yes but Wol you have been here since the beginning and the same for Steve
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Eden Haiku: ::::::And as the wind shifts/::::::We visualize a form taking place/::::::
    genesis Zhangsun: which allows you two to draw upon the many experiences you two and others have here as a resource for a new guardian
    Wol Euler snorts
    Maxine Walden: ? Wol
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    genesis Zhangsun: I think it is less about "here is the answer" and more about "here are some possible ways based on what others have done before"
    Wol Euler: huh, long delayed. snorting at eliza "That makes you all the more qualified"
    Calvino Rabeni: Modesty :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: in th end you are all equally qualified
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh yes definitely not 'here is the answer'.... and it was in that spirit that I made that comment.....
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Maxine Walden: Most of us underestimate the value of our experience, especially when we feel modest
    Eden Haiku: ::::::And as the wind shifts/ ::::::We visualize a form/::::::Taking place as trust :-)
    Maxine Walden: :), Eden
    Wol Euler: :)

    A fascinating angle...

    genesis Zhangsun: I am reading about "Koan practice" and its parallels with legal precedent
    Eliza Madrigal: oh, fascinating
    genesis Zhangsun: I am imagining the various chatlogs where people have had particular break throughs with certain practices as our precedent, our recording of certain "koans"
    Calvino Rabeni: It is interesting we have a spontaneous arising in group, then chat logs for reflection and record
    Calvino Rabeni: and scribes to look for emerging trends
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes... the scribes highlight some of these things
    Calvino Rabeni: so many levels
    stevenaia Michinaga: a nice model, even fleeting things are held in the logs
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Wol Euler nods
    Maxine Walden: (I have to go soon and will take the chatlog unless someone else has spoken for it. Maybe someone could send me the rest of the chatlog for posting)
    Calvino Rabeni: the mind can't hold them
    Calvino Rabeni: then gets a second chance
    Calvino Rabeni: I will send it maxine
    Eliza Madrigal: I offered to post the log Maxine :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, time for lunch and shoveling the snow here
    Maxine Walden: wonderful, Eliza, thanks
    Eden Haiku: ;-)
    arabella Ella: wow snow? really?
    Wol Euler sighs wistfully. Shovelling snow, how lovely.
    stevenaia Michinaga: se you all soon
    Maxine Walden: bye for now all
    Eliza Madrigal: :) You are more than welcome... you have another session today!
    stevenaia Michinaga: (5")
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you everyone!
    Wol Euler: bye steve, maxine
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye
    Maxine Walden: bye all
    arabella Ella: bye Steve, Maxine
    genesis Zhangsun: bye maxine, by steve
    Eden Haiku: Bye Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Maxine, Wol, All
    genesis Zhangsun: I will be going too
    Maxine Walden is Offline
    Eden Haiku: Bye Genesis, take care!
    Wol Euler: bye gen, enjoy the afternoon
    genesis Zhangsun: interesting discussion perhaps we could take up the issue of mentoring and the challenges again next week?
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds good, Gen!
    Calvino Rabeni: like to do that
    Wol Euler: yes, let's do.

    We all clear out. :)

    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone... productive meeting!
    arabella Ella: yes
    Riddle Sideways: yes, must leave tooo, thanks all
    arabella Ella: i must leave too bye everyone!
    arabella Ella: and thanks again!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye riddle,gen,ara, everyone
    Wol Euler: bye all, ttake care
    Eden Haiku: Bye. Wishing a nice Sunday to everyone!
    Calvino Rabeni: Are you on the way, ELiza and Gen?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes someone asked me to answer a few questions....
    genesis Zhangsun: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: so am off to meet with them...
    genesis Zhangsun: bye Cal! bye Wol!
    Calvino Rabeni: BFN then
    Wol Euler: bye!
    Wol Euler: sorry, caught up in a work IM ...

    The session ends, but Wol and Calvino continue, and bring up many interesting ideas! (Thanks, Cal, for sending the log) ... Wow, great phrase... 'pushing the river'...

    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wol and Cal :) Bye for now... if you all solve the problems of the world, please let me have the chat log....
    Eliza Madrigal giggles :)
    Calvino Rabeni: heh.
    Wol Euler: that would be nice.
    Calvino Rabeni: WHo has the log?
    Wol Euler: well, one of us now, insofar as there is still a log being logged
    Calvino Rabeni: It can be claimed, or does that mean, copy the text in the chat window
    Wol Euler: ah, ok. Copy from the chat window or from the permanent record on your local hard disk (cough cough)
    Wol Euler: there is no autologging here yet, I want to get the Playgoda system running well and then just duplicate it here
    Calvino Rabeni: Autologging of course - I can do that, but where to send the log?
    Wol Euler: ah, I see, sorry. Send it by outside e-mail to Eliza.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that is clear
    Wol Euler: attach it as a plain-text file, is the best. Not Word etc, just vanilla text
    Calvino Rabeni: These meetings are pretty short seeming
    Calvino Rabeni: Over time it adds up however
    Calvino Rabeni: I was readig recently about self-organizing groups like this one
    Calvino Rabeni: how they can get established. Or not quite.
    Calvino Rabeni: They have the potential of coalescing around an identity
    Calvino Rabeni: as a community of practice
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: it depends on the degree of cohesion, I expect.
    Calvino Rabeni: Can't push it, because it is an emergent property
    Wol Euler: which is where your question about what we are "allowed" to discuss comes into play
    Calvino Rabeni: but it can be helped with attention and support
    Calvino Rabeni: One distinction between a network of individuals and a community of practice
    Calvino Rabeni: is that the community has some desire / goal in addition to serving the participants, of working together in an outward facing way
    Calvino Rabeni: Or advancing some state of knowledge
    Wol Euler: huh
    Calvino Rabeni: Does that make sense to you?
    Wol Euler: yes, very much
    Wol Euler: I see a venn diagram :)
    Wol Euler: the circle of *network* of people who use pab to learn about themselves and improve themselves, for personal gain as it were
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Wol Euler: partially overlapping with the *community* of people who wish to bring pab as a discipline to the outside world
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Wol Euler: there is friction along that fault line :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Wol Euler: and we know what happens to fault lines when there is friction.
    Calvino Rabeni: For some people they coincide more than for others
    Calvino Rabeni: quantum decoherence :)
    Calvino Rabeni: A great deal depends on the needs of the individuals
    Wol Euler: stim and storm and pema are entirely within thte "community" circle, they have so much experience of practices like these that they have no personal need of them at all
    Wol Euler: (example)
    Wol Euler: others without name seem to be entirely within the "network" circle, coming only for a good chat
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght, that is the diagram I was thinking also
    Wol Euler smiles
    Wol Euler: you could make a JPEG of hat for the log :) send it to Eliza too.
    Calvino Rabeni: Illustrations are fun.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Where would you be on the diagram? Or want to be?
    Wol Euler: well, I am in the common area, but definitely closer to the "network" centre.
    Calvino Rabeni: OK thanks
    Wol Euler: and you?
    Calvino Rabeni: More towards the community center. I have a history with practices and am not focused on learning new things
    Calvino Rabeni: (not that I am closed to it)
    Calvino Rabeni: It just isn't a main developmental need now
    Wol Euler: see, this is where I hesitate about mentoring the *practices*
    Calvino Rabeni: I think I agree
    Wol Euler: the thought of trying to teach you about YSBS brings the words "grandmother" and "suck eggs" to mind
    Calvino Rabeni: If people want it, it is nice for them to get it (whatever it is)
    Wol Euler: also true. So play it by ear, case by case.
    Calvino Rabeni: I like this group because of the quality of the people
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Wol Euler: I think we'd all give that as our first reason.
    Calvino Rabeni: The communion aspect, I might call it
    Wol Euler: y'know, there are two sections of the wiki where you might post your thoughts about this.
    Wol Euler: your own user page, or there is a category called "Guardian's contributions"
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm also interested in the projects approach, so it could add up to something useful for outsiders - they could find something of value here even if they weren't personally involved in the "presence"
    Calvino Rabeni: Personal page - sounds worthwhile
    Wol Euler: well, if what you write turns out to be relevant to The Cause :) I would strongly encourage you to put it in Guardian Contributions instead
    Wol Euler: because that is directly visible on the wiki's homepage
    Calvino Rabeni: This group harmonizes nicely with RL groups I associate with
    Calvino Rabeni: Kind of a cross-fertilization
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: lucky you, I have not found any comparable group in RL
    Wol Euler: though I must confess that I haven't spent much energy looking for one
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure, at one time it seemed missing, and somewhat impossible
    Calvino Rabeni: But I made it a focus
    Calvino Rabeni: and over only about 3 years, it came together in a satisfying (if not ultimate) way
    Calvino Rabeni: Part of it was one-on-one friendships
    Calvino Rabeni: that took on a new aspect
    Calvino Rabeni: kind of - informal co-mentoring
    Wol Euler smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: But I remember making up my mind to have it as an intention
    Calvino Rabeni: and kind of pushing the river a bit
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: an interesting expression.
    Calvino Rabeni: going with the flow - things would have stayed in a different mode - like, discussing psychological issues that are personal
    Calvino Rabeni: Kind of, problems
    Calvino Rabeni: That still is okay, but I think, a more creative energy emerged
    Calvino Rabeni: based on interests, desires, maybe appreciation
    Wol Euler nods
    Calvino Rabeni: Somehow, this is the curious thing, the same movements began to happen around me - with the appearance of a cultural shift
    Wol Euler smiles. Were you the catalyst of it, or perhaps just the first to sense the Zeitgeist?
    Calvino Rabeni: Some of both - that is the way I think it works with this kind of thing.
    Wol Euler: proabbly, yes.
    Calvino Rabeni: Being alert to the potentials in the environment seems important - alertness can either further or dampen those emergent potentials
    Calvino Rabeni: This I think, sounds pretty airy, but I think it is objective
    Wol Euler doesn't worry overmuch about the alleged objective/subjective dichotomy.
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps then, esoteric?
    Wol Euler: the older I get, the more it seems to me that all such dichotomies are actually *sliders* :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Sure, agree very much
    Calvino Rabeni: Fractal sliders :)
    Wol Euler: hehehehehe
    Wol Euler: multi-dimensional sliders.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes.
    Wol Euler: like poking knitting needles into a block of jello
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, there is room for lots of directions
    Calvino Rabeni: Or do people do that? :)
    Wol Euler laughs. Anything you can think of, somebody somewhere does.
    Wol Euler: for fun or for profit
    Calvino Rabeni: It is the open-world principle - whatever *can* happen, *does* happen, somewhere
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: Cal, I have to stop. I need some dinner, and have some RL dtabase stuff to do. I'll probably be back for the 1pm
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care, have a good day. Thx for the chat. :)
    Wol Euler: you too! take care
    Calvino Rabeni: Poof

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