2009.12.17 01:00 - Tangled World

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    The Preliminaries. Things often start this way, although sometimes I think it would be fun to jump right in with stating or asking for one's deepest current spiritual insight or dilemma. 

    Geoff Baily: hi Cal

    Calvino Rabeni: Geoff, good evening or day.

    Geoff Baily: morning for me
    Calvino Rabeni: Where is it morning for you?
    Geoff Baily: France, and you, where are you?
    Calvino Rabeni: SL time zone, West coast
    Calvino Rabeni: USA that is
    Geoff Baily: ah yes
    Calvino Rabeni: Is French your first language?
    Geoff Baily: no, english is
    Calvino Rabeni: I guessed as much by the name. Is it a variant spelling of "Jeffrey"?
    Geoff Baily: or someting like that
    Calvino Rabeni: PAB has become a "bad habit" keeping me up past bed time.
    Calvino Rabeni: Not that I am complaining :)
    Geoff Baily: its very good for us
    Calvino Rabeni: How did you come across it - Kira?
    Geoff Baily: well I have been wandering in spirituality for years now
    Geoff Baily: aand I found Nonduality and then the Urban Guru Cafe
    Geoff Baily: and via that SL
    Geoff Baily: and you? how did you find it?

    Calvino Rabeni: A friend recommended it, who knew Pema and Stim in RL

    Geoff Baily: I see


    I thought I'd try a lead in to the pheno perspective...

    Calvino Rabeni: Do you have any habits (of the good variety) with respect to the 90 second pauses?

    Concern for the world trumps introspection tonight...

    Geoff Baily: Thinking about the chaos at the meeting on climate change at Copenhagen
    Calvino Rabeni: Are you personally involved with the climate conference and issues, more than a concerned dweller of the planet?
    Geoff Baily: I try and respect the pauses
    Geoff Baily: a concerned dweller
    Geoff Baily: and you?
    Calvino Rabeni: :) which question?
    Geoff Baily: involvement in the climate change debate
    Calvino Rabeni: No, none. Closest I come is neighborhood sustainability activities that are local
    Geoff Baily: ;) good citizen
    Calvino Rabeni: I set up the web site for the neighborhood. Each area of the city has one. It is not run by the governments
    Geoff Baily: that's great
    Geoff Baily: how does it work?
    Geoff Baily: do you have recycling schemes etc?
    Calvino Rabeni: THe involved people get together regularly and do what makes sense to them, on many small fronts
    Calvino Rabeni: The cities do that
    Geoff Baily: I see
    Calvino Rabeni: The citizen initiatives are about resource sharing, education about urban farming, education about issues, and working on the social capital issues
    Geoff Baily: I gather water supply is a big problem where you are


    There is some action "in between the lines" (in the well-observed pauses).

    Calvino Rabeni: Not generally. Only in desert areas that are overbuilt past the carrying capacity of aquifers.
    Geoff Baily: is there involvement with the children at school?
    Geoff Baily: I heard that some farmers have major problems
    Calvino Rabeni: Not that I'm aware - but that is an excellent idea - I think I will promote it a little at the meetings
    Geoff Baily: ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: Americans are very conservative about childhood education
    Calvino Rabeni: Plus there is a generation gap with the issues
    Geoff Baily: oh
    Geoff Baily: here there is a lot of recycling
    Geoff Baily: and the youngsters are involved at school
    Calvino Rabeni: the activists are mostly retired people, with a few young fiery idealistic 20-somethings
    Calvino Rabeni: not much in between
    Geoff Baily: i see
    Geoff Baily: if they close their eyes it will go away
    Calvino Rabeni: They are submerged in their activities
    Geoff Baily: are you in California? Arnie is over here at the meeting in Copenhagen
    Geoff Baily: drove up in a huge SUV!!!!!!
    Calvino Rabeni: Washington now - used to be in California
    Geoff Baily: lovely up ther
    Geoff Baily: Seattle,
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Geoff Baily: Puget Sound is beautiful
    Calvino Rabeni: I heard a great lecture on oceanography
    Calvino Rabeni: about the human-made materials
    Geoff Baily: I remember a night time cruise there after a Conference many years ago
    Calvino Rabeni: that are in the oceans, and their paterns and currents
    Calvino Rabeni: What conference, if I may ask?
    Geoff Baily: yes millions of tons of plastic and rubbish!
    Geoff Baily: ahh, on virology a previous life ago now it seems
    Geoff Baily: you an oceanographer?
    Calvino Rabeni: No, I just try to keep scientifically literate in many areas
    Geoff Baily: You do, I see from the logs!!
    Calvino Rabeni: The oceans have so much structure, it made me think of the earth almost like a giant cell
    Calvino Rabeni: http://flotsametrics.com/
    Geoff Baily: Gaia
    Calvino Rabeni: I try to follow paradigm shifts in science - to get the general movement
    Calvino Rabeni: if not the specific details
    Calvino Rabeni: virology is interesting now
    Calvino Rabeni: in that big-picture sense
    Geoff Baily: yes it has been an important tool in unravelling

    Things unravel for a while...


    And then get back to basics.

    Geoff Baily: basic biology
    Geoff Baily: as well as raising social issues, AIDS for example
    Geoff Baily: and now of course flu
    Calvino Rabeni: plus ecology, origin of life, evolution - all implicated with virology
    Geoff Baily: and practical issuesin medicine, hepatitis
    Geoff Baily: yes you could say everything
    Geoff Baily: too important to be left to the virologists!!
    Calvino Rabeni: the viruses used to be considered the not-quite-alive exceptions, relatively unimportant except as disease vectors --- now they appear central and indispensable
    Geoff Baily: i used to tell the students viruses are both living and nonliving
    Geoff Baily: they had to think that through for a while!
    Calvino Rabeni: might wonder "well, what IS life" ...
    Geoff Baily: yes transposons are probable basic in the evolution of the huan genome
    Geoff Baily: ah,
    Geoff Baily: what do you think Cal?

    Pause while this very open question is assessed.  Hmmmm, could go anywhere...

    Calvino Rabeni: Given that large portions of the genome are deactivated retroviruses
    Calvino Rabeni: Most of the bulk is probably not so much inert as part of regulation
    Geoff Baily: some of the genome is yes
    Geoff Baily: or structure
    Calvino Rabeni: it puts a whole different light on organization
    Geoff Baily: the nucleus of each cell type hasits own structure
    Geoff Baily: DNA is a scaffold as well as an information transfer machine
    Calvino Rabeni: RNA is much more active than before thought
    Geoff Baily: have you ever mown the grass with an electric mower
    Calvino Rabeni: epigenetic modifications last for generations
    Geoff Baily: and tried to avoid getting tangled!!!!!!

    Very emphatic - and the most "!"'s I have yet seen on a chat line.  I like the injection of chaos into the discussion.

    Calvino Rabeni: Exactly, it is surprising nature is not more tangled than it is
    Geoff Baily: think of the cell's problems in making sure that there are no tangles
    Calvino Rabeni: I have wondered at that
    Calvino Rabeni: and if there are, they become part of the function
    Calvino Rabeni: in non-predictable ways
    Geoff Baily: yes RNA is another story
    Calvino Rabeni: The story just keeps getting more complex
    Geoff Baily: probably came before DNA, an RNA world anntedated the DNA world
    Geoff Baily: and a slime world even earlier
    Calvino Rabeni: The cell has lost a lot of its primacy as a way to organize theory


    Geoff Baily: Nice to talk Cal but I must go now.
    Geoff Baily: Good to talk with you
    Calvino Rabeni: Likewise, Geoff, thanks for the chat.
    Calvino Rabeni: See you later.
    Geoff Baily: Bye sleep well
    Calvino Rabeni: thanks

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