2009.12.31 13:00 - Insides, Outsides, Depths - Wild Things

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    When I arrived, Liza and Aubergine were in the middle of a conversation already, which was not captured in the log.  A creative project is in the works, it seems.

    Liza Deischer: hi cal
    Aubergine Mint: i see
    Liza Deischer: it is not very busy tonight
    Liza Deischer: So Im trying to build an environment
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Liza, Aub
    Liza Deischer: in which the can feel at home
    Liza Deischer: and I think that sl offers ways
    Liza Deischer: that arent possible in rl
    Liza Deischer: anonimity is a part of it
    Aubergine Mint: that sounds great
    Liza Deischer: yes, but it is an awful lot of work
    Aubergine Mint: I hope you succeed
    Liza Deischer: and I can only work for 2, three hours a day

    Editor's note to self - ask about this later...

    The occasional direct approach is refreshing:
    Liza Deischer: so waht do you think about PaB
    Liza Deischer: I have a feeling youre didnt make up your mind yet
    Aubergine Mint: I have moments when I really like it and some when I don't see the point of it
    Aubergine Mint: so i'm still making up my mind
    Liza Deischer: Sometimes i see you don't connect with the group
    Aubergine Mint: right
    Aubergine Mint: it seems like a different group each time
    Yes, different, and also the same.  To sort these out would be to understand the group in its creative and static forces.  Where's this going to go, I wonder?
    Liza Deischer: maybe we should sit down, since were talking now
    Aubergine Mint: so not sure where i fit in
    Liza Deischer: can you give an example

    What are we here for?  That question is somewhat disturbing, on several levels.  Aubergine I believe, is referencing a previous session where the question reared is unruly head. I remember the session, the question, and feel the questioning continue.  I don't mind projecting some of my own thoughts on what Aubergine is asking, allowing I don't know the other members' inside story of the discussion.

    Just what is going on in these sessions?  What is "supposed to" be going on?  What is the point of it?  Are there expectations?  Is everyone on the same page (except perhaps, myself, one may think)?  If people don't speak, well, what is up with that?  This IS a discussion group, or at least, usually seems to be so.  Do they interpret silence according to some other invisible framework?  If so, what could it be?  Where does the "meaning" come from?  Do I have to understand it, or believe "in" it, to have a meaningful relationship?  Do I have to "subscribe" to something? 

    Aubergine Mint: sure
    Aubergine Mint: sometimes it seems that no one has anything to say
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Aubergine Mint: and i'm not sure if everyone is meditating or what
    Liza Deischer: you feel uncomfortable
    Aubergine Mint: yes
    Liza Deischer: when that happens i mean
    Liza Deischer: youre not the only one
    Aubergine Mint: that's nice to know
    Aubergine Mint: I also don't have a Buddhist background so I don't get many of the references
    Liza Deischer: I think that even the most of us feel a bit awkward when that happens
    Liza Deischer: especially last time, when it took up half an hour
    Aubergine Mint: :)
    Liza Deischer: yes thats a problem
    Liza Deischer: but being a buddhist myself
    Aubergine Mint: but i'm starting to feel the rhythem of it
    Liza Deischer: I've learned that any situation can show something
    Liza Deischer: if you are willing to look at it
    Aubergine Mint: yes
    Liza Deischer: even if nobody says anything
    Perhaps Aubergine is wondering how much PaB is a Buddhist thing.  We hear Liza's personal story about Buddhism, with Aubergine leading things along with commonsense questions.
    Aubergine Mint: what makes you want to call yourself a Buddhist?
    Liza Deischer: well Im afraid there is no way back for me anymore
    Liza Deischer: took about all the vows there are
    Liza Deischer: and the last until etairnity
    Aubergine Mint: are there vows in Buddhism?
    Liza Deischer: once you do an initiation in tantra
    Liza Deischer: youre a buddhist
    Liza Deischer: there is no other name for it anymore
    Aubergine Mint: do you believe in the supernatural aspects also?
    Liza Deischer: but Im glad I am
    Liza Deischer: depends on what you mean with supernatural
    Aubergine Mint: reincarnation for example
    Liza Deischer: buddhisme is built on that aspect
    Liza Deischer: but at the same time
    Liza Deischer: I have no proof nor any experience that confirms it
    Liza Deischer: my own teacher
    Liza Deischer: a
    Liza Deischer: Tibetan teacher
    Liza Deischer: has questions about reincarnation too
    Liza Deischer: he wasnt shy to tell us about it
    Aubergine Mint: there are several forms of Buddhism if i'm not mistaken
    Liza Deischer: so,in Buddhism nothing is what it seems to be
    Liza Deischer: true
    Aubergine Mint: have you decided on a particular form?
    Liza Deischer: I dont know much about Zen
    Liza Deischer: Tibetan
    Aubergine Mint: how did you go about choosing that?
    Liza Deischer: Tibetan Buddhism has four main schools
    Liza Deischer: I'm Gelugpa
    Liza Deischer: Storm is Kadampa
    Editor's note - if interested, add Nyingmapa, Kagyupa, Sakyapa, according to this article.
    Liza Deischer: actually I didnt
    Liza Deischer: I ran into a small group of people like here
    Liza Deischer: who had all sorts of questions about religious items, about life
    Liza Deischer: it wanst a buddhist group
    Liza Deischer: but the 'teacher' herself happened to be a buddhist
    Liza Deischer: slowly I started to get more interested
    Liza Deischer: and found out that a lot of things I already had been thinking
    Liza Deischer: somehow fitted in
    Liza Deischer: later on I started to take teachings
    Liza Deischer: and slowly I became a member of the buddhist group
    Liza Deischer: when i took the initiation
    Liza Deischer: i finally felt at ho,me
    Liza Deischer: I dont know
    Liza Deischer: Zen isnt for me
    Aubergine Mint: what is the initiation process?
    Liza Deischer: but maybe other schools would have suited me better
    Liza Deischer: or other teachers (teachers are extremely important in Buddhism)
    Liza Deischer: but i didnt have the energy to find out
    Liza Deischer: so I stuck with what was offered
    Aubergine Mint: how do you find a teacher you can trust?
    Liza Deischer: but the whole process took over 10 years
    Liza Deischer: there are rules for that
    Aubergine Mint: oh wow i had no idea it took that long
    Liza Deischer: you have a list of things you ask yourself to make it clear if he is your right teacher
    Liza Deischer: it doesnt have to be
    Liza Deischer: but it takes time to get the feeling of it
    Liza Deischer: starting to understand what is really menat
    Calvino Rabeni: Liza, for instance, can you tell what kind of things are on the list?
    Liza Deischer: not just with your head
    Liza Deischer: but also with your experiences
    Liza Deischer: not all of it
    Liza Deischer: but you make sure, that the teacher is somebody who is a real buddhist
    Liza Deischer: and that he (mostly he, Im afraid) has more knowledge then you have
    Liza Deischer: and that he is able to guide you through your process
    Aubergine Mint: sounds difficult to determine that
    Liza Deischer: yes and no
    Liza Deischer: because most teachers are part of the lineage
    Liza Deischer: which means that my teacher is a student of a student of a student of.........the buddha himself
    Liza Deischer: they dont get just knowledge
    Liza Deischer: but when they are ready
    Liza Deischer: have experienced enough
    Liza Deischer: they can become a teacher
    Liza Deischer: So a teacher in the lineage
    Liza Deischer: who is allowed to teach tantra (Vajrayana) has 'classified' as a good teacher
    Liza Deischer: is
    Liza Deischer: the only thing that is left: is he a good teacher for you
    Liza Deischer: and you can have more teacher then one
    Aubergine Mint: what is tantra?
    Liza Deischer: my teacher has 42 teachers
    Liza Deischer: not all alive anymore
    Liza Deischer: Ive got 2
    Liza Deischer: but before you take an initiation
    Aubergine Mint: so you can have teachers that are not alive?
    Aubergine Mint: through writings?
    Liza Deischer: you need to ask the teacher if he is willing to give you one
    Liza Deischer: no, they have been teacher
    Liza Deischer: but died at a certain time
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi! :)
    Liza Deischer: maybe some do have contact with those kind of teachers
    Aubergine Mint: what is a tantra initiation?
    Aubergine Mint: hi Eliza
    Liza Deischer: but Buddhist are very carefully with that kind of issues
    Liza Deischer: hi Eliza
    Liza Deischer: if you think somebody is contacting you, you just ask politely to go away
    Liza Deischer: tantra is the fast way to heaven :-)
    Aubergine Mint: a guarenteed entre?
    Liza Deischer: to become enlightened and to becom a buddha (wich are two different things), it takes you life after life after life
    Aubergine Mint: so is anyone enlightened?
    Aubergine Mint: or is it an illusive goal?
    Liza Deischer: not guarenteed, but it is said that you can become a buddha in just one lifetime doing tantra
    Liza Deischer: I dont know
    Liza Deischer: havent found out myself
    Liza Deischer: yet
    Aubergine Mint: and what is heaven?
    Liza Deischer: heaven doesnt excist in buddhism, that why i put a :-)
    Liza Deischer: behind it
    Liza Deischer: There is samsara and nirvana
    Liza Deischer: samsara is the cycle of life where we stay in because we are attached to it
    Liza Deischer: nirvana is the way out
    Liza Deischer: and yet.......
    Liza Deischer: it is all not that simple
    Aubergine Mint: of course
    Liza Deischer: the question is if nirvana is so different from samsara
    Liza Deischer: or that it is more the way you look at it
    Aubergine Mint: but i appreciate your putting it simply
    Liza Deischer: and in opposite to other religions
    Aubergine Mint: so are these states of being earth bound?
    Aubergine Mint: or other worldly?
    Liza Deischer: buddhism doesnt have a concept of God
    Liza Deischer: could be both I suppose
    Aubergine Mint: do they have a creation story?
    Liza Deischer: well, when you talk about reincarnation
    Liza Deischer: you actually talk about buddhas or boddhisatva's
    Liza Deischer: you dont talk about 'normal' people
    Liza Deischer: we just get thrown out and in new lives
    Liza Deischer: a reincarnation know he is reincarnated
    Liza Deischer: and had a choice to do so
    Liza Deischer: when walking on the earth
    Liza Deischer: some of what his 'is' is earthbound
    Liza Deischer: his body is equally put into time en space
    Liza Deischer: and endures the consequences of that
    Liza Deischer: sometimes you talk about a emination
    Liza Deischer: which means that (as far as I understand it) certain energy gets embodyed
    Liza Deischer: The Dala Lama is an emination of great love and
    Liza Deischer: forgot the english word
    Liza Deischer: forgot even the dutch word now :-)
    Liza Deischer: and compassion
    Liza Deischer: thats why he is not able
    Aubergine Mint: how does he know that?
    Liza Deischer: to get violent in any way
    Liza Deischer: it is not in his system
    Liza Deischer: reincarnations or eminations get confirmed by another reincarnation
    Liza Deischer: for the Dala
    Liza Deischer: Dalai Lama that is the Panchen Lama
    Liza Deischer: and the other way around
    Liza Deischer: but the Panchen Lama has been captured by the Chinese
    Liza Deischer: so I dont know who is confirming the next Dalai Lama
    Liza Deischer: if there is going to be one
    Liza Deischer: And I dont know what he knows
    From tradition to the present and personal:
    Aubergine Mint: so do you keep studying?
    Liza Deischer: have no clue whatsover
    Liza Deischer: I try too
    Liza Deischer: but with my fatigue
    Liza Deischer: it is difficult
    Aubergine Mint: is it a daily practive for you?
    Aubergine Mint: are you not well?
    Liza Deischer: it is even hard to get to my rl group
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: I have a chronic fatigue
    Aubergine Mint: i'm sorry to hear that
    Liza Deischer: yes, so am i :-)
    Liza Deischer: even my daily practice
    Aubergine Mint: is there something you can do for that?
    Liza Deischer: I cant do it the way I should like to do it
    Liza Deischer: my chronic fatigue you mean?
    Aubergine Mint: yes
    Liza Deischer: well tried about everything
    Liza Deischer: but in the end it comes from a deep trauma
    Liza Deischer: that messed up my whole life
    Liza Deischer: gave me several burnouts
    Liza Deischer: 3 in total
    Liza Deischer: Finally I found the right therapist
    Liza Deischer: but if my body ever will recover, I dontknow
    Aubergine Mint: i am so sorry to hear all that, i wish you a better 2010!
    Liza Deischer: and I know there are more out there like me
    Eliza deftly adds a new significance and direction to the mix:
    Eliza Madrigal: there is a part in Zen Mind Beginners Mind which talks about the 'bad horse' being in some way better than the best horse... that there is a kind of material to work with, in trauma, in weakness, etc. not available when things come easily
    Liza Deischer: thats why I want to put up the practice
    Liza Deischer: that is true
    Aubergine Mint: thank you for sharing so much with me today, i'm glad we had this time
    Liza Deischer: your welcome
    Liza Deischer: and thank you too
    Aubergine Mint: you've been very kind and are a good teacher
    Liza Deischer: But youre right Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: And thanks for letting me sit in, interesting talk :)
    Liza Deischer: so I try to work with it
    Liza Deischer: but sometimes its just hard
    Eliza Madrigal nods. We have a bit in common, and yes I do understand
    Liza Deischer: in comon?
    Liza Deischer: common
    Aubergine leaves. 
    Aubergine Mint: I need to go now, but truly hope you have a great new year, and you too Eliza and Cal, best wishes!
    Aubergine Mint: bye for now
    Eliza Madrigal: Happy New year Aubergine!
    Liza Deischer: best wishes Aubergine
    Calvino Rabeni: see you later, Aub
    Aub was a good listener but I'm curious about what she is thinking, so I engage in a brief, off-the-log IM chat before she actually logs off SL.  Then the topic turns to ... illness and suffering.  One of my personal favorites :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Mhm. I went through a rather dramatic time of illness years ago, and one might say there are still residues at times...
    Liza Deischer: phisically or mentally, or both
    Eliza Madrigal: So if I were to be labeled with something now, it would prob. be along the lines of chronic fatige or fibromyalgia... but thankfully work very well with it :)
    Liza Deischer: thats great
    Liza Deischer: and great to hear Im not the only one (not great to hear youre suffering from it too)
    Eliza Madrigal: It seems many people arrive at dramatic spiritual places due to having had traumas and such. Strange to find yourself honestly thankful for those things, rather than just saying so as a matter of politeness :)
    Liza Deischer: yes, I agree
    Liza Deischer: and looking around me
    Liza Deischer: somehow i think that spiritual questions are not the result of a trauma
    Liza Deischer: but the way the trauma is received, includes spriritual questios
    Liza Deischer: Im not quite sure about that
    Liza Deischer: it a bit of a theory
    Eliza Madrigal nods... yes some of the most spiritual and vibrant people I know seemed to have had perfectly normal experiences ... not necessarily 'trauma'
    Liza Deischer: you're still alive Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: yep
    Eliza Madrigal: though life itself could be seen to be traumatic... even birth :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking about what you're saying
    Liza Deischer: i was just teasing a bit
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Liza Deischer: Yes life is traumatic
    Liza Deischer: thats why i think it is the other way around
    Liza Deischer: for people having questions
    Liza Deischer: getting traumatised is different
    Liza Deischer: then when you think life is it
    Liza Deischer: if you get my drift
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose I think about the things that bring one into therapy and such... usually not just questions but a sense of not being able to function, in a way....
    Eliza Madrigal: it is a demand.. moreso than a curiosity...
    Eliza Madrigal: often
    Liza Deischer: yes exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: so there is a certain end place one can begin from?
    Liza Deischer: but the not functioning part is most of the time the result of having questions and being traumatised in some way
    Liza Deischer: nicely put
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you. I know you understand, so it is interesting to talk about :)
    Liza Deischer: If you dont understand the world around you and your in good health
    Liza Deischer: you probably will find your way
    Liza Deischer: it looks different
    Liza Deischer: but when there is more then just not really understanding your environment
    Liza Deischer: and youre selfesteem has been damaged
    Liza Deischer: then suddenly the questions turn into feeling lonely
    Liza Deischer: turn into some nightmare
    Liza Deischer: in which you ask yourself over and over again
    Liza Deischer: if there is something wrong with you
    Liza Deischer: does that make sense?
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes and perhaps few places to go for trusted guidance.. yes, I think so
    Calvino Rabeni: This is very universal, although it seems personal to those who suffer
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes I'd hate to think it was necessary to traumatize my children in order for them to have a taste for spiritual things .. hah (not to make too light)
    No worries, most people manage this without help from their loving parents.
    Liza Deischer: that makes it so hard
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Liza Deischer: and actually
    Liza Deischer: at that level
    Liza Deischer: it is a personal thing
    Liza Deischer: its you against life (or something like that)
    Eliza Madrigal: Still, there is a kind of wonderfulness about having exhausted the illusion of 'options', which we all get to in various ways
    Liza Deischer: yes
    Liza Deischer: quite right
    Eliza Madrigal: then finding that guides and help is 'everywhere'
    Liza Deischer: if you get to the right path so to speak
    Liza Deischer: it gets easier
    It could be a dubious habit, but I ask questions like the following when I have something to say about it, rather than as a naked asking.
    Calvino Rabeni: What is one to do with the dark place in one's own soul?
    Liza Deischer: and you meet the persons that can help you
    Calvino Rabeni: I met a man recently - and I am glad I did
    Eliza Madrigal: a teacher? Friend?
    Calvino Rabeni: He is extremely disfigured - less than a meter in height, very twisted, must ride in a motorized cart
    Calvino Rabeni: And he has beautiful clear eyes and a clear voice
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Is a teacher for a group of people - has spiritual power
    Liza Deischer: those are beautiful persons
    Calvino Rabeni: He can teach about suffering and disfigurment from experience
    Calvino Rabeni: Not my teacher, but I had instant recognition and respect
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, resonating
    Eliza Madrigal: that's a gift, when we meet those friends :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And I think, learned a lesson or two, hopefully
    Liza Deischer: you recognized him
    Calvino Rabeni: yes
    Liza Deischer: that in itself is a gift
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm sure... about what is essential, important, true?
    Eliza Madrigal: something you can't really 'say'
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Liza Deischer: if you get a bit out of our trauma or questions or whatever
    Liza Deischer: the world looks different
    Liza Deischer: you start to recognize things in people
    Calvino Rabeni: yes, and what about the "dark side" which is a difficulty for people - by its nature
    Liza Deischer: you didnt before
    Liza Deischer: it still is for me, Im afraid
    Liza Deischer: slowly I start to examine it
    Liza Deischer: but I need al the help I can get
    Eliza Madrigal: Well yes it is a good question... seems no one way to approach that, or one way of dealing with people in pain, even when the person is yourself
    Eliza Madrigal: other than yes, to get some space around the pain, as I've heard it described
    Calvino Rabeni: slow is good :)
    Liza Deischer: it is probably dark because we dont know what is ther
    Eliza Madrigal: I think we can do that for one another, for others, too
    Liza Deischer: but is it a snake or some rope
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Writing is a good tool for work with the shadow creatures :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It really is a snake, until you look at it :)
    Liza Deischer: exactly
    Liza Deischer: one teacher told me a story
    Liza Deischer: but it is too big to tell it here
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh darn :)
    Liza Deischer: but I will make a notecard one of these days
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, great
    Liza Deischer: and send it over to you
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks. What is it about, generally?
    Liza Deischer: about the things we keep grapping
    Liza Deischer: while there is a more easy way to deal with it
    Liza Deischer: Im not going to give a way the whole point :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Calvino Rabeni: Your help can come from unexpected quarters
    Liza Deischer: but I think you will like the story
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you, I look forward to that
    Eliza Madrigal: Stories have a way of staying with one
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Eliza Madrigal: cropping up in various moments of life
    Eliza Madrigal: Ty :)
    Liza Deischer: yes, that is the nice thing about storys
    Liza Deischer: stories
    Eliza Madrigal: There is a children's book I've liked, which I think about all the time lately... not even sure why....
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose it will come clear eventually :)
    Liza Deischer: yes, I think so too
    Eliza Madrigal: It is called "Clown of God" and is about a juggler... and is not even in the context of faith in the way I've related to it (my practice is buddhist also), but still... something... in fact I will find it after I sign off here now. :D
    Liza Deischer: probably :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Liza Deischer: well, talking about signing off
    Liza Deischer: half an hour and it is new year here
    Liza Deischer: so I need to go
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, Happy New Year Liza :) Great talking to you. Oh! Well Cheers then!
    Calvino Rabeni: Cheers - happy new year.
    Liza Deischer: Great talking to you
    Calvino Rabeni: I like this session
    Liza Deischer: it was a good night :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes it was
    Liza Deischer: see you next year
    Calvino Rabeni: BFN Liza
    Eliza Madrigal: See you in 2010
    Eliza Madrigal: Interesting how some hang around after they've signed off, and thanks so much for the note earlier :)
    Calvino Rabeni: YW
    Eliza Madrigal: What time is it for you?
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes I IM them on the way out.
    Calvino Rabeni: It is SLT time for me
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean, same as local time
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, so you have a while before the sun sets :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: An hour or two at most.
    Eliza Madrigal: For me it is 5:35, and I guess I should be buying Avatar tickets..heh
    Calvino Rabeni: I almost went yesterday to do that
    Eliza Madrigal: It does look incredible. We'll see. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, Happy New Year Calvino! It is very nice to have you at PaB, and I'll see you in 2010, too

    Did that sound like farewell, and have some momentum behind it?  Yes, but things can turn around quickly. 

    Time moves on, and as it is New Year's Eve, I almost imagine I hear a great and subtle scraping sound as the planet's odometer turns over.  Not quite feeling right with the inevitability of that image I suddenly had a "carpe diem" feeling and...

    Calvino Rabeni: Tonight is a symbolic night, new year's eve
    Eliza Madrigal: symbolic of what for you
    Calvino Rabeni: TY
    Eliza Madrigal: (she says lingering)
    Calvino Rabeni: Tempted to stay :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahh
    Eliza Madrigal: Well interest peaked...
    Calvino Rabeni: The calendar is arbitrary, but one makes it into something real
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and yet I spent the morning thinking about death and birth...
    Calvino Rabeni: as a symbol, new year stands for, a new life free of karma, fresh with potential
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, fresh with potential... :::inhales:::::
    Calvino Rabeni: so one can drop "hey, that's impossible"
    Calvino Rabeni: The symbol helps with a big "drop"
    Eliza Madrigal: what if its all impossible?
    Calvino Rabeni: It is, but not on new year's eve :)
    Eliza Madrigal grins
    Eliza Madrigal: And on a blue noon
    Eliza Madrigal: Moon
    Calvino Rabeni: It can be a time to drop all the idea of things being broken
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice thought to sit with under that moon, perhaps
    Calvino Rabeni: This is blue moon yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Eliza Madrigal: In Asia and Europe it is more significan't somehow... a partial eclipse or something?
    Eliza Madrigal: In the US we won't be able to see it that way
    Calvino Rabeni: In this part of the country, the moon and stars are hidden typically
    Calvino Rabeni: But if they do appear, it is memorable
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Yes, here it is rather the same...
    Eliza Madrigal: for the stars.. but the moon is often clear to view...
    The cosmic becomes personal again.
    Eliza Madrigal: Where my mother lives, which is basically 'nowhere', the night puts any planetarium to shame :)
    We shift from "time" to "place".
    Calvino Rabeni: Where is no where?
    Eliza Madrigal: Somehow there is something to see there :) She lives in a tiny town in Georgia... moved there about 15 years ago
    Calvino Rabeni: What drew her to that place?
    Eliza Madrigal: I think she was just tired :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Tired of driving driving driving here. Miami can be chaotic :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Quiet, cheap, good company - tell me if there is a place with all those attributes and I will go there :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I'm sure there must be...
    Eliza Madrigal: Her town is quiet, I will give it that :)
    Calvino Rabeni: When people retire - they need a matchmaker service to find their community
    Calvino Rabeni: Could be done by rebranding "match.com" and similar enterprises
    Eliza Madrigal: Well now there are lists and such published ... online sites where you punch in your ideals
    Eliza Madrigal: findyourspot.com is the one I looked at a few years ago
    Calvino Rabeni: Specifically for finding, say, intentional communities?
    Eliza Madrigal: I kept ending up in Oregon :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks, I will look there
    Calvino Rabeni: Oregon has it
    Eliza Madrigal: but it is quite limited, the site, that is
    Calvino Rabeni: I have a house there, know people there
    Eliza Madrigal: It seems a center for creativity... and a certain kind of outlook...
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes it does have that "certain" something
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been exploring my own backyard a bit more in the last few years... becoming reaquainted
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe I will go back there "down the road"
    Calvino Rabeni: Literally ?
    Eliza Madrigal: it takes a bit more effort, but there are many hidden treasures
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Well... not quite literally... almost
    Eliza Madrigal: More the areas I took for granted when I was younger... special parks and places
    There are other eyes in the humans' environment, belonging to animals.  They are the ultimate outsiders to the human point of view, yet they make themselves right at home among us.
    Calvino Rabeni: There are interesting wildlife creatures everywhere
    Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed, like the anhinga bird :)
    Calvino Rabeni: The bird that swims in the water and has a long neck like a snake
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps, can tie neck in a knot even?
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, hope no one ever tries! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: They are the most peculiar creatures really... see them out on the rocks, wings spread, in the sun....
    Eliza Madrigal: they just play and bask...
    Calvino Rabeni: They must spread out to dry. Like they are their own laundry
    Eliza Madrigal: It must be nice to be a bird who flies and swims ... seems a bit rebellious
    Eliza Madrigal: haha, yes exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick!
    Calvino Rabeni: I can show you wildlife from my back yard, literally
    Mickorod Renard: Hello, how are you both?
    Eliza Madrigal: We're talking about New Years, blue moons, and anhinga birds
    Mickorod Renard: ahh,,nice
    Calvino Rabeni: good, had a good session, now chat about places and animals
    Eliza Madrigal: what are the common creatures Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: are you scared of what is in the dark :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I am
    Calvino Rabeni: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9956336@N03/4218755611/
    Mickorod Renard: I may be if I think there is something to be scared of
    Calvino Rabeni: I think you need a flickr account to see the photo
    Some things really do go "bump in the night".
    Eliza Madrigal: Yikes!
    Eliza Madrigal: Is that in your yard!!
    Calvino Rabeni: Indeed
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Eliza Madrigal: goodness
    Eliza Madrigal: he looks friendly...hah
    Calvino Rabeni: He eats garbage most of the time.
    Eliza Madrigal: So he is a regular then?
    Mickorod Renard: what is it,,I dont have flikr
    Calvino Rabeni: A family - three bears. The little one thinks my can is "just right"
    Eliza Madrigal smiels
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Eliza Madrigal: Smiles, too
    Calvino Rabeni: Mick, it is a large bear that climbed a tree in back yard of house
    Eliza Madrigal: he's a beautiful creatures though...
    Mickorod Renard: wow cool
    Eliza Madrigal: *one creature
    Animal chit chat.
    Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes a fox looks in the glass door.
    Eliza Madrigal: Foxes are the funniest to watch....
    Eliza Madrigal: They tried to keep some in the zoo here (we have a very open zoo, but still a zoo) and the rascals refused to stay in whatever contraption or setting they came up with
    Mickorod Renard: they are quite ruthless though,,when killing other animals
    Calvino Rabeni: One night I heard a funny noise - looked all over the house - finally found an opossum under my bed :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, these were tiny little things... not sure what kind
    Eliza Madrigal: aaack
    Calvino Rabeni: Indeed, somewhat shocking
    Eliza Madrigal: I've not been friendly toward them since I snuck out of the house one night as a teen and looked up, in the dark, to see one on the phone chord, staring down....
    Calvino Rabeni: And this is in a city - not in the middle of nowhere
    Eliza Madrigal: it was sooo startling
    Mickorod Renard: thats amazing Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm surprised the bears would be in the city?
    Calvino Rabeni: Lots of garbage to eat - it probably smells a lot better than the berries
    Mickorod Renard: I am supprised how much road kill we have here, compared with what I saw in france anyway
    Calvino Rabeni: It is a town, actually, and they follow open space corridors such as parks, far into the interior of the town
    Eliza Madrigal: brb
    Mickorod Renard: lots of dead badgers, squirels, pheasants and indeed even deers here too
    Calvino Rabeni: Is there less wildlife in france, or are they "wiser"?
    Mickorod Renard: I think the hunters kill them into extinction
    Calvino Rabeni: Sounds like the inside of a german pub, Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: wheras here in uk everyone see's them as cuddly creatures
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Calvino Rabeni: So the hedgehog is a fierce creature ?
    Mickorod Renard: yes it is
    Calvino Rabeni: Parts of it are extremely sharp
    Calvino Rabeni: Every creature has a depth of ferocity
    Calvino Rabeni: I was attacked by a duck
    Mickorod Renard: I had a nice family of hedgehog once,,in my garden,,but one morning I woke up and they were all torn to shreds by some other animal
    Calvino Rabeni: And I learned to my surprise, it has a secret "duck fu" technique
    Mickorod Renard: badger I think
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Calvino Rabeni: The racoons are tough characters
    Mickorod Renard: I nearly ran one over near toronto once
    Mickorod Renard: Iam thinking of getting stickers to put on my car,,like ww2 fighters had on their planes
    Eliza Madrigal: hedgehogs are so sweet :)
    Eliza Madrigal: haha Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: (I just bought avatar tickets) :)
    Mickorod Renard: wow,,I think I may have to see that one
    Eliza Madrigal: rarely do I get tickled to see something like this, though I can't imagine the creatures in Pandora can live up to our bears and hedgehogs and anhingas
    Eliza Madrigal: much less the platypus :)
    Calvino Rabeni: The "duck fu" fighting technique involves a fierce "shout of death" :)
    Mickorod Renard: I must admit to having lost my interest in most tv and movies
    Calvino Rabeni: I can relate to that Mick
    Mickorod Renard: who does the shouting Cal,,the duck or the one attacked?
    Calvino Rabeni: The duck.
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,am following it now
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: geese are right devils
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Calvino Rabeni: Every animal practices a samurai art when they must
    Mickorod Renard: many farmers here have them as guard dogs
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes geese can be visious
    Calvino Rabeni: Of course, you can see it on youtube like everything.
    Calvino Rabeni: They lower beak and charge
    Eliza Madrigal: This has been fun. Nice to close out the PaB year with you guys.
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd better go make myself fresh
    Eliza Madrigal: haha
    Calvino Rabeni: :) bye Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Blessings in the New Year. Namaste
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Time for me to go also.
    Mickorod Renard: missed eliza
    Calvino Rabeni: Happy new year, Mick
    Mickorod Renard: ok Cal,,good to see you
    Calvino Rabeni: bye
    Mickorod Renard: and you
    Mickorod Renard: bye
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