2010.01.11 13:00 - Retreats, Worry and guilt

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

      Mickorod Renard: Hi Qt
        Qt Core: Hi Mick
        Mickorod Renard: are you well?
        Qt Core: yes, quite, you ?
        Qt Core: made me thing that this is the 30th year i'm living in this one
        Mickorod Renard: wow...thats good
        Mickorod Renard: I am guardian tonite,,a day shift
        ertram Jacobus: good evening (from germany) lady and gentlemen ... :-)
        Mickorod Renard: :)
        Liza Deischer: what has gotten into you :-)
        Mickorod Renard: hows your weather in Germany,,and Italy with u too Qt?
        Mickorod Renard: and Holand with you Liza?
        Bertram Jacobus: i think europe is quite similar at the moment - no ? wintertime ... ;-)
        Mickorod Renard: yes..he he
        Qt Core: quite good here, temp around 0C, it seem like the Alps are protecting us from this cold that toke over Europe
        Mickorod Renard: snow all around here
        Liza Deischer: yes, few degrees freezing
        Liza Deischer: no new snow
        Liza Deischer: hi Yaku
        Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
        Zon Quar: yaku
        Mickorod Renard: Hi Yaku
        Bertram Jacobus: hey yaku :-)
        Mickorod Renard: I am afffraid I havnt been feeling very spiritual lately, so if anyone has some nice observations they may like to share it would be nice
        Zon Quar: hm waht is spiritual
        Bertram Jacobus: hello zen ...
        Liza Deischer: hi Zen
        Zen Arado: Hi all
        Zon Quar: hi zen
        Bertram Jacobus: for me, spiritual is spirit-orientated
        Zon Quar: what is spirit
        Zon Quar: soemthing thin in the air ?
        Mickorod Renard: maybe
        Bertram Jacobus: all. and nothing. sry for this silly answer
        Wol Euler: hello everyone
        Liza Deischer: hi Wol
        Mickorod Renard: perhaps its something that lives in peoplemmthen moves on after the body dies?
        Bertram Jacobus: hi wol :-)
        Mickorod Renard: Hi Wol
        Zon Quar: ho wol
        Zen Arado: not silly - it is an overworked word I think
        Zon Quar: kind of soul ?
        Zon Quar: a ghost in us ?
        Mickorod Renard: maybe,,although we would then have to define soul
        Mickorod Renard: grin
        Zon Quar: ok lets stay in spiritual
        Bertram Jacobus: i don´t consider so much if it longs longer then a life - mostly it´s the ego we´re considering anyway - i find it more interesting to find the here and now ...
        Zon Quar: is buddhism spiritual ?
        Liza Deischer: depends on how you defind spiritual
        Zon Quar: thats what im after..lol
        Zon Quar: suggestions ?
        Bertram Jacobus: for me, yes zon. because it also leads to something transcendental. transcending dualism i mean with that.
        Liza Deischer: Buddhism talks about the continuing of consciousness
        Liza Deischer: not about a soul or something like that
        Zon Quar: spiritualism is tarncsending dualism..hm
        Liza Deischer: nothing you can really relate to
        Zon Quar: materialsim is then spiritual too..lol
        Bertram Jacobus: i would say spiritualism includes transcending
        Mickorod Renard: thats not a bad idea Bert,,but nontheless, what is it in us that finds anything like the here and now so facinating,,I dont know whether we are any diferent than other animal spieces if we didnt project our thoughts over a wider time span
        Zen Arado: I think spiritua vaguely means 'concerned with the meaning of life and trabscending our ordinary mundane activities'
        Bertram Jacobus: it´s a question of motivation i think zon - so material aspects can be spiritual and spirituality can be materialistic too -
        Zon Quar: hm transcending mundane activities,,,
        Liza Deischer: to buddhism what makes something spiritual is motivation
        Mickorod Renard: perhaps what makes us so concerning about things is that we question thimngs too much,,and complicate life
        Zon Quar: is that here and now
        Zen Arado: so 'spiritual' takes us away from what we should consider maybe
        Qt Core: sorry but i'm called away, bye all
        Bertram Jacobus: i always see equalities AND differences between all mick. so we are part of the universe and mind seems quite obviously to life in us so to say. and debating endless does not help i think. better to BE -
        Zen Arado: bye Qt
        Mickorod Renard: I cant help feeling that if we stay in the here and now ...bye QT
        Bertram Jacobus: it´s only one of countless metaphers - the here and now. and i like to add : nice to have fun with relativity , but also important to find pauses in that, freedom, quietness ... i think, that is an original part of us too. wants to be lived ...
          Wol Euler: have you been here before, Lila?
        Bertram Jacobus: and ty for your remark and starting with spiritual topics mick ! :-)
        Mickorod Renard: :)
        Mickorod Renard: I get in a muddle
        Mickorod Renard: one thing tells me to drop everything and live in the now
        Calvino Rabeni: I use the word spiritual sometimes - but only relative to how other people mean it in the moment - it has little intrinsic meaning to me. I tell people I attend "spiritual" groups, so they will have some label for it
        Mickorod Renard: and yet I have to plan ahead and take history as a protecting example of how things can cause problems
        Wol Euler: well, one need not take "living in the now" too absolutely. Most of the buddhists I know carry life insurance.
        Mickorod Renard: experience is a nice tool,,but it also muddies the water too
        Liza Deischer: :-)
        Bertram Jacobus: experience muddles the water ?
        Zon Quar: isnt spiritual opposite to materialism
        Mickorod Renard: yes, in that it can cause oneself to live in fear of possibilities
        Zen Arado: Spiritual seekers look for self-realization or enlightenment in the future. To be a seeker implies that you need the future. If this is what you believe, it becomes true for you: you will need time until you realize that you don’t need time to be who you are. - Eckhart Tolle
        Liza Deischer: quite right Zon
        Calvino Rabeni: I think "spiritual" is used by people to mean a concern with almost anything that can't be weighed and measured or pointed to as an object
        Bertram Jacobus: "opposite" ... different (!) ;-)
        Liza Deischer: but there is something like spiritual materialism
        Calvino Rabeni: It just opens up a space for them to legitimize other types of concerns and experiences
        Bertram Jacobus: i think, you wrote yourself a very important word before mick : complication (!) ...
        Mickorod Renard: yes,,we cmplicate our lives
        Bertram Jacobus: i try to simplyfy mine
        Zon Quar: nods to Cal
        Mickorod Renard: I am trying to simplify mine
        Bertram Jacobus: lol
        Mickorod Renard: I wish I could do so more
        Bertram Jacobus: gimme five mick
        Zen Arado: ever just sit and do nothiing for a day?
        Wol Euler: not often enough :(
        Mickorod Renard: no
        Wol Euler: well, let me think again. No.
        Mickorod Renard: I have been frivilous with days
        Bertram Jacobus: no. wu wei does not mean to do nothing
        Bertram Jacobus: it means to flow
        Zen Arado: m neither
        Zen Arado: why can't we?
        Wol Euler: a good question
        Zen Arado: what is so important?
        Zon Quar: its not programmed in us
        Mickorod Renard: we need to sustain ourselves,,in many ways
        Zen Arado: yes..but one day?
        Zon Quar: we have need
        Zon Quar: needs
        Bertram Jacobus: yes
        Zon Quar: and a need of variety
        Bertram Jacobus: more or less
        Mickorod Renard: variety,,the spice of life
        Wol Euler: I wonder what "doing nothing all day" would actually look like.
        Liza Deischer: we think
        Zon Quar: if u sit in one position..u get pain
        Zon Quar: u move towards pleasure
        Zen Arado: well...have to eat...etc
        Wol Euler: presumably not reading, or watching tv, or sorting our records ...
        Zon Quar: so u change position
        Zon Quar: and move
        Zen Arado: I find Zen silent retreats are so full of things going on
        Mickorod Renard: I would settle for peace of mind
        Calvino Rabeni: If you "wu wei"-ed all day, who knows *where* you'd end up!
        Zen Arado: and many would find that sitting all day so difficult
        Bertram Jacobus: how long are the retreats you do zen ?
        Zen Arado: 5 days at the most
        Bertram Jacobus: nice
        Bertram Jacobus: very nice
        Bertram Jacobus: :-)
        Zon Quar: sounds like a torture
        Bertram Jacobus: you´ll die cal (!) ;o)
        Calvino Rabeni: Zen retreats can be exciting
        Zon Quar: 5 days doing nothing !!!
        Calvino Rabeni: You might get hit by a stick
        Wol Euler: bert, surely you cannot say that :)
        Zen Arado: I read a book by a woman who recommended just sitting doing nothing for a week or so
        Calvino Rabeni: If you're lucky
        Zon Quar: ah..thats a chnage,,
        Wol Euler: you were talking about three-year-long retreats when we first met
        Bertram Jacobus: some say the buddha had done that : sitting until death or enlightenment ...
        Zen Arado: who was ?
        Wol Euler: bertram
        Zen Arado: ah
        Bertram Jacobus: yes wol
        Wol Euler still can't really believe that.
        Bertram Jacobus: oh. the people there do also 12 year retreats (!) ... ;-)
        Liza Deischer: Buddha was lookingclosely
        Wol Euler: ack.
        Zon Quar: oh no....
        Liza Deischer: he wasn't doing nothing
        Bertram Jacobus: it´s for sure a very big decision . and dedication ...
        Liza Deischer: he tried that, didn't work
        Zen Arado: asceticism didnt work
        Bertram Jacobus: and the people who do that, start normally with short retreats to see, whether that is their way ...
        Liza Deischer: yew
        Liza Deischer: yes
        Wol Euler: I can't think that a weekend retreat has anything but the name in common with one that lasts 12 years
        Liza Deischer: but they were close als the story tells ys
        Calvino Rabeni: Compared to 12 years, 9 seconds seems pretty doable
        Wol Euler: heheheh
        Zen Arado: :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the same determination is needed
        Zon Quar: well..its not for me...
        Bertram Jacobus: oh : the common aspect is that one goes away from the every day life, from the normal life, from all the distractions ...
        Calvino Rabeni: Sure, that's for people in a different culture
        Zon Quar: but one can practise here too
        Zon Quar: in the middle of everything
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes
        Zon Quar: the real test palce
        Zen Arado: ppl realizing that everyday life problems are as good if not better for awakening us
        Calvino Rabeni: yes zon
        Wol Euler: mmhmm
        Bertram Jacobus: i know many europeans who did one three year retreat or two ...
        Wol Euler: but ... but ... what do they eat? who pays their rent? does their job wait for them?
        Mickorod Renard: who feeds their family?
        Wol Euler: that too
        Mickorod Renard: clothes them?
        Bertram Jacobus: they eat what the cook makes for them
        Bertram Jacobus: they find sponsors or had own money
        Bertram Jacobus: their jobs normally don´t wait
        Zon Quar: i think retiring from daily life is a kind of escape..good to make u in peace with urself..but not the final objective
        Calvino Rabeni: Friends have done this - No family, 13 years in an ashram, that may include jobs -
        Bertram Jacobus: their families must be feeded - sure - may be one part of the parents is workin or there is no family
        Bertram Jacobus: all that has to be regulated
        Bertram Jacobus: very important
        Liza Deischer: it could be an escape I suppose, but for some people it is a good thing
        Bertram Jacobus: you do much prearrangements in front of such a retraet
        Wol Euler: well, I would hope so :)
        Liza Deischer: I think it depends on what you need and can organize
        Bertram Jacobus: often same amount of time, sometimes even more
        Zon Quar: it is goog...but finally it has to be tested in everyday life
        Calvino Rabeni: Or started there to begin with Zon
        Bertram Jacobus: it´s a hughe challenge. theory and practise here are very different
        Wol Euler: I suppose as far as the mechanicals go, it's not that different from taking a year off to travel the world.
        Bertram Jacobus: it´s a serious and traditional, real thing ...
        Bertram Jacobus: very real
        Liza Deischer: but for wome people daily life is to distracting
        Zon Quar: nods
        Mickorod Renard: yes
        Bertram Jacobus: people have to show that they can stand it
        Liza Deischer: when you have time on your hands, you can build a base, a fundament
        Calvino Rabeni: great point lize
        Calvino Rabeni: *liza
        Zen Arado: yes
        Zen Arado: retreats can provide a kind of iintensity you don't get in RL
        Liza Deischer: yes
        Zon Quar: yes..i agree that u need to get distance...but to stay thta way for years..im not sure if its good nowadays
        Bertram Jacobus: it is said, that the first experiences are most simple on the zafu . later one is able to practise in every day live too . but that is only ONE way - besides uncountless others
        Zen Arado: where you don't have distractions to escape into
        Liza Deischer: it all depends on the person, it depends on the context
        Bertram Jacobus: the people i know ... mostly show very nice changes after this practise ...
        Zen Arado: I suppose that y
        Zon Quar: yes,,many ways there r
        Zen Arado: centuries ago there was so much work and little leisure for spiritual pursuits though
        Zen Arado: unles you went to a monastery
        Liza Deischer: so were fortunate :-)
        Liza Deischer: we're
        Zen Arado: yes we are :)
        Wol Euler: in many ways, aes
        Wol Euler: *yes
        Liza Deischer: we have the opportunity to pratice
        Liza Deischer: a lot of people in the world haven't
        Zen Arado: I am retired so I can pursue spiritual things al the time if I want
        Liza Deischer: they are struggling to keep alive
        Zen Arado: and we have better access to teachiongs via the web than monks had in the old days
        Zon Quar: yes..so much info availabe now
        Liza Deischer: which can distract us btw :-)
        Zen Arado: yes ..too much information maybe
        Zon Quar: or drown us
        --BELL--
        Bertram Jacobus: but wol ... travveling in the inner and the outer world - i think, there is a difference . whereas - i was not able to do such a journey (retreat) ... so i´m only talkin as a blind from coulors (but i was told so, from reliable persons in my opinion) ...
        Mickorod Renard: thats what I was saying earlier,,the information we hold in our heads,,can be enlightening or suffocate us/drown us
        Wol Euler: hello ginger, born today :) welcome to second life
        Mickorod Renard: Hi Ginger
        Zen Arado: Hi Ginger
        Liza Deischer: hi ginger
        Calvino Rabeni: nods to mick
        GingerLilly Evanier: Lol hello everyone
        Wol Euler: yes, bert, I wasn't comparing the two, just thinking tomyself that other people do drop absolutely everything ...
        Bertram Jacobus: ah ... okay ... thinkin´about that wol ... :-)
        Wol Euler: Ginger, I'll gtive you an introduction to the group in IM, so we don't disturb the others.
        Mickorod Renard: thanks wol
        GingerLilly Evanier: thank you
        Mickorod Renard: I have given Ginger a notecard
        Bertram Jacobus: i´ll take a break ... log off for a while ... ty for the nice talk all ! ... :-)
        Wol Euler: bye bert, take care
        Mickorod Renard: do you think that knowledge of lifes complications can make us guilty in ourselves,,even though we havnt done anything wrong,,?
        Liza Deischer: bye Bert
        Mickorod Renard: bye Bert
        Bertram Jacobus: namaste ... :-)
        Zen Arado: byr Bert
        Zen Arado: guilty?
        Zon Quar: never feel guilty
        Zen Arado: guilt is from ego
        Liza Deischer: I think going around the world can be very spiritual and can be very materialistic
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, mick. And also no.
        Mickorod Renard: :)
        Mickorod Renard: I was thinking,,gnorance is not a defence from guilt
        Zen Arado: guilty we aren't doing enough yo mean Mick?
        Liza Deischer: the more you know, the more you can do wrong :-)
        Mickorod Renard: therefore,,knowledge must have responsibility
        Liza Deischer: sometimes it is a good thing to be oblivious
        Zon Quar: best way to control someone is to make him feel guilty
        Liza Deischer: true
        Liza Deischer: but I don't think it is about guilt
        Calvino Rabeni: Most knowledge is second hand - insofar as it implies anything "guilt like" then you have it - wiithout having chosen it - so in a sense you are not guilty
        Liza Deischer: guilt brings you nowhere
        Mickorod Renard: and if you know that more things can lead to risk,,then one feels guilt for the possible outcome of things that otherwise one would pay little concern to
        Liza Deischer: it is about trying to get it right next time
        Calvino Rabeni: But there may be an ethical reason to become clearer about it
        Zen Arado: it's dwelling in the past too
        Liza Deischer: that is a way to look at it Mick, but it sounds like fear
        Zon Quar: be careful and intellignet..do what u can..but not guilty
        Calvino Rabeni: It might be good to drop the fear part, keep the implied responsibility part
        Zen Arado: you learn from mistakes but ego wants to magnify them and say 'I am really useless' etc
        Liza Deischer: it can also be very rewording
        Zon Quar: if u made a mistake ..dont do it again
        Mickorod Renard: I think its a direction that one can follow when one gets older,,its either fear or obliviousness
        Zon Quar: but not guilty
        Liza Deischer: (i have no idea how to write that word)
        Wol Euler nods to zen and zon
        Zen Arado: how could 'I' do such a thing
        Liza Deischer: I dont think it is an if, if
        Zen Arado: with emphasis on the 'I'I
        Wol Euler: which is counterproductive, and wounding.
        Calvino Rabeni: If you can take on "guilt" it is not wounding
        Calvino Rabeni: If it motivates right action
        Calvino Rabeni: As in becoming responsible
        Mickorod Renard: Hi Fef
        Calvino Rabeni: or accountable
        Wol Euler: there are two separate things, though, I think
        Zen Arado: Hi Fef
        Liza Deischer: yes Cal, but guilt has a nasty flavour
        Wol Euler: seeing that you made a mistake can motivate you to change your behaviour
        Zon Quar: self pity too, how could I do it, Im so bad
        Liza Deischer: I should say, be sorry, try to find ou what you could have done and move on
        Calvino Rabeni: That might be ok - drop the flavor, keep the motivation
        Zen Arado: ok Cal...but not wallowing iin it
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes
        Fefonz Quan: (hi all, passing by)
        Calvino Rabeni: Hi fef
        Liza Deischer: right
        Mickorod Renard: am I guilty for riding a motorbike because it may encourage a younger and more ignorant to the dangers person to do the same?
        Zen Arado: passing time ? :)
        Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone i jump up to the time workshop
        Zen Arado: wonders if Time is interesting
        Calvino Rabeni: Same here, off to "time" - thanks all :)
         Zen Arado: :)
        Liza Deischer: is guilt a problem to you Mick?
        Liza Deischer: because I have a feeling that you get stuck in it a little bit
        Liza Deischer: or am I wrong?
        Mickorod Renard: I find worry and guilt seem to become entwined
        Zon Quar: if nods
        Wol Euler nods
        Zon Quar: mind stuff
        Zon Quar: worry about future
        Zon Quar: regret tha past
        Mickorod Renard: if i am worrying about something then surely there must be something I could do
        Zon Quar: is not living in now
        Wol Euler: right, zon
        Wol Euler: and mick, I'm not sure that that is true
        Liza Deischer: I think you're right about worry and guilt
        Liza Deischer: but I guess it starts with the worry
        Mickorod Renard: maybe
        Liza Deischer: hi Eliza
        GingerLilly Evanier: hello Eliza
         Eliza Madrigal: Hi Liza, Mick, Everyone I might not see yet :)
        Liza Deischer: yes, you look great
        Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Zon :)
        Wol Euler: hello eliza
        Liza Deischer: to be worried has a negative flavour
        Mickorod Renard: yes
        Liza Deischer: it triggers other negative flavour
        Liza Deischer: flavours
        Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone... popping through today... bye for now and see you soon
        Liza Deischer: bye eliza
        Zon Quar: bye
        Mickorod Renard: I feel worried about things that may come to haunt me,,yet I know I have done no wrong
        Mickorod Renard: Bye Eliza
        Zon Quar: Mick ..perhaps u need a bit "faith " ?
        Zon Quar: in life
        Liza Deischer: to be worried make you get stuck
        Zon Quar: life is intelligent
        Zon Quar: we r part of that intelligence
        Liza Deischer: not to be worried, make you active
        Liza Deischer: reacting on life
        Wol Euler: sorry to hear it, MIck.
        Liza Deischer: on the needs of oneself and others
        Liza Deischer: I understand
        Zon Quar: wehn i feel worried...i try not to think
        Liza Deischer: sometimes it is hard to turn it around
        Zon Quar: thinking makes it worse
        Wol Euler nods
         Zon Quar: i feel the moment
        Liza Deischer: even to understand that it isn't helpful
        Zon Quar: and then i know what i can do
        Liza Deischer: with your heart I mean
        Wol Euler: wb lila
        Liza Deischer: hi lila
        Lila Sideways: ty
        Wol Euler sighs. Ah, mick. the eternal "what might have been"
        Liza Deischer: yes :-)
        Wol Euler: a reason that satisfies **you** I mean
        Liza Deischer: yes, but there is something holding you back
        Liza Deischer: and I have a feeling it is not the house
        Mickorod Renard: no, not really,,I just want to become comfortable again
        Wol Euler: a fine aim, mick
        Wol Euler: and moving on sounds like a good thing to do
        Liza Deischer: and somehow you have difficulties in doing so
        Wol Euler: but nonetheless I can well understand how it hurts to give something up
        Mickorod Renard: it is,,as long as i can move on
        Liza Deischer: and thats not just now
        Mickorod Renard: I dont mind giving up on it
        Liza Deischer: but probably you have had 'problems' like this before
        Wol Euler: I'm afraid I have to move on, duty calls. Goodnight all, take care
        Roussel Galaxy: Are you busy ?
        Mickorod Renard: Hi Roussel
        Roussel Galaxy: What is going on here ?
        Mickorod Renard: we have just finnished
        Mickorod Renard: but
        Roussel Galaxy: Finished what ?
        Mickorod Renard: we meet here 4 times a day
        Mickorod Renard: its called play as being
        Mickorod Renard: we chat and discuss things about life
        Roussel Galaxy: Hi
        Liza Deischer: hi
        Roussel Galaxy: What were you doing?
        Liza Deischer: playing :-)
        Mickorod Renard: we were discussing what spiritual meant
        Liza Deischer: as Mick said
        Roussel Galaxy: Some kind of meditation ?
        --BELL--
        Liza Deischer: no more like a discussion group
        arabella Ella: Hiya
        Liza Deischer: hi Ara
        Liza Deischer: you know Mick
        Roussel Galaxy: Hi, Arabella
        Mickorod Renard: sort of,,every 15 mins we stop for a few seconds to feel what its like to be in the moment
        Liza Deischer: or are you just stepping bye
        Roussel Galaxy: Let me talk to Aranella for a minute
        arabella Ella: Hiya Russ
        arabella Ella: how r u?
        Roussel Galaxy: Hi, Arabella
        arabella Ella: Hiya
        Roussel Galaxy: So you are a philosophy addict?
        Liza Deischer: I hope you will be well
        Liza Deischer: bye for now
        arabella Ella: yes i am
        arabella Ella: are you?
        Mickorod Renard: thanks Liza,,and you too
        arabella Ella: bye Liza
        Roussel Galaxy: Who's your favourite philosopher?
        arabella Ella: it is difficult to choose only one
        arabella Ella: i could give you a few favourites
        arabella Ella: wittgenstein heidegger kant and more
        Roussel Galaxy: One or two will do for now
        arabella Ella: u got theee there
        arabella Ella: :)
        Roussel Galaxy: Did you mean thee or three?
        arabella Ella: three
        arabella Ella: apologies for the typo
        arabella Ella: the light where i am is not too good
        Roussel Galaxy: Where's "there"?
        arabella Ella: it is also late here
        arabella Ella: Malta
        arabella Ella: where are you from then?
        arabella Ella: nearly midnight here
        Roussel Galaxy: From another world
        Roussel Galaxy: Here, it's 5:15 PM
        arabella Ella: a real life martian?
        arabella Ella: oh sounds like slightly furhter west than east coat usa or canada
        Roussel Galaxy: No, a Terran but from a part of the world that you would never suspect.
        arabella Ella: you never know
        arabella Ella: i travel a great deal more than you could imagine
        Roussel Galaxy: I'm new here. How does one sit down on a cushion?
        arabella Ella: oh come on
        arabella Ella: i expect you may be someone else with a new avatar
        arabella Ella: you would not have found this place on your first day on SL ... that would be impossible
        Roussel Galaxy: Nope, same "old' avatar, but not very old.
        arabella Ella: ah
        arabella Ella: and of course you now know where I come from but you won't say where you come from
        Roussel Galaxy: Actually, I've only been here two days
        arabella Ella: although six hours time difference could be east coast but perhaps USA or Canada or thereabouts
        Roussel Galaxy: You're getting warm
        arabella Ella: i know
        Roussel Galaxy: Vous parlex francais?
        arabella Ella: oui un petit peu
        arabella Ella: montreal allors?
        Roussel Galaxy: Ah... so I see that you are well educated
        arabella Ella: oh course i am
        arabella Ella: would you now like italian or german perhaps?
        Roussel Galaxy: You're getting even warmer
        Roussel Galaxy: No, but I know Latin, ancient Greek and French
        arabella Ella: well ... that's not too bad either
        arabella Ella: not that Latin and ancient Greek help one to get around but they can form the basis for understanding stuff in italian and french perhaps ... and some greek of course
        Roussel Galaxy: You still haven't told me who your favourite philosophers were
        arabella Ella: i did if you scroll up
        arabella Ella: three
        arabella Ella: wittgenstein, heidegger and kant
        Roussel Galaxy: Kant ! Now he's an interesting guy
        arabella Ella: i also like the french postmodernists and also bartre, baudrilliard, sartre, derrida etc
        arabella Ella: sorry barthes
        Roussel Galaxy: Ha. So you perhaps know more philosophy than I do
        arabella Ella: who is your favourite then?
        arabella Ella: if you wish to reveal that?
        Roussel Galaxy: I am thinking
        Roussel Galaxy: Probably Voltaire, although he is better known as a playright and as a writer. But he had a fantastic sense of humour.
        arabella Ella: yes he did and he lived in a fantastic liberal time too - the encyclopedists
        --BELL--
        arabella Ella: silence please
        Roussel Galaxy: There are many jokes that are due to him. Ever hear about the eyeglasses ?
        arabella Ella: only 90 secs
        Roussel Galaxy: You mean that you are leaving in 90 secs.?
        arabella Ella: no ... 90secs of silence ... and yes i must leave soon
        arabella Ella: ok to speak now
        arabella Ella: here we try to respect the 90 sec of silence
        arabella Ella: to reflect and meditate
        arabella Ella: as we wish
        Roussel Galaxy: He once thanked God for having so formed the nose that it would support eyeglasses
        arabella Ella: oh yes i heard that somewhere
        arabella Ella: sounds like the joke about a guy with no ears ... but that is another story
        arabella Ella: its a stupid joke anyway
        Roussel Galaxy: I don't mind
        Roussel Galaxy: By the way, did I mention that you are beautiful?
        arabella Ella: so is there anyone else except Voltaire you could mention as one of your favourites?
        arabella Ella: thanks for the complement
        Roussel Galaxy: Pythagoras, although he is better known as a mathematicia
        Roussel Galaxy: Bertrand Russell
        arabella Ella: oh Russell with his five wives and his terrible views on religion ... I admire his assertiveness but of course he lived in a man's world
        arabella Ella: I dont particularly like his ideas
        Roussel Galaxy: Russell once wrote an 800 page book just to prove that 1+1=2
        arabella Ella: altho i am not a mathematician and dont know much about his maths ideas
        arabella Ella: yes i know
        Roussel Galaxy: I aM A MATHEMATICIAN, SO i TEND TO FAOUR PHILOSOPHERS WHO DEALT WITH MATHS
        Roussel Galaxy: Sorry about the uppercasing
        arabella Ella: ah ok
        arabella Ella: no worries
        arabella Ella: and i know very little about the philosophers who wrote about mathematics
        Roussel Galaxy: Do you have a house around here?
        arabella Ella: well we all have guardian plots on this sim
        arabella Ella: as we are quite involved here
        Roussel Galaxy: What's a guardian plot?
        arabella Ella: i'm afraid i must go now ... a guardian plot is like a little home on this sim
        arabella Ella: there is a small village
        Roussel Galaxy: I hope we meet again...
        Mickorod Renard: I must leave now as well Roussel
        arabella Ella: i must go i am exhausted after around 12 hours work today
        Roussel Galaxy: I understand
        Mickorod Renard: feel free to linger
        arabella Ella: bye then nice meeting you perhaps you could join one of our sessions here when you are free
        arabella Ella: at 1300 hrs SL time
        arabella Ella: bye ... nite
        Mickorod Renard: and every 6 hours
        Roussel Galaxy: What'sSL ?
        Mickorod Renard: second life
        arabella Ella: SL is second life
        arabella Ella: bye then
        arabella Ella: nite Mick
        Mickorod Renard: bye Ara
        Roussel Galaxy: I should have known, How stupid oof me
        Mickorod Renard: its not that obvious
        Mickorod Renard: dont worry
        Roussel Galaxy: You seem to know your way around here
        Mickorod Renard: well,,not that much
        Roussel Galaxy: More than me, surely
        Mickorod Renard: but one must come a few times and sit and listen,,its fun after a while
        Mickorod Renard: it takes time to learn the ways of how it works
        Roussel Galaxy: I agree. I've already learned quite a lot today
        Mickorod Renard: great
        Roussel Galaxy: Well, I off exploring. Thanks
        Mickorod Renard: there are many strange places in sl,,but here its quite normal
        Mickorod Renard: ok,,have fun

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