2010.04.19 13:00 - 'What the Bell'

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

    Fay Yedmore smiles
      Zen Arado: :)
      Bertram Jacobus: how are you today ? :-)
      Zen Arado: fine thanks and you?
      Bertram Jacobus: it´s okay. still stuck in ireland but get used to it slowly
      Fay Yedmore: am fine too thanks ;-)
      Bertram Jacobus: hehe. mick needs some refreshing as it seems ;o)
      Mickorod Renard: oops
      Mickorod Renard: :)
      Mickorod Renard: ayup Ags
      Zen Arado: did you say you arew in Ireland Bert?
      Agatha Macbeth smiles
      Bertram Jacobus: yes zen. holiday at friends. and now stuck under the ashcloud
      Agatha Macbeth: With the guiness :)
      Zen Arado: whereabouts in reland?
      Bertram Jacobus: no. cappucino
      Agatha Macbeth: Aw
      Zen Arado: you could come and see me
      Bertram Jacobus: waterford, nearby
      Zen Arado: oh long way
      Bertram Jacobus: aww - pity ! ;-)
      Fay Yedmore: well i hope he comes back home soon Zen winks
      Zen Arado: you could come by train
      Agatha Macbeth: Nice hat
      Agatha Macbeth: 'Sera QT
      Mickorod Renard: mmm,,not sure i reg right for auto logger
      Mickorod Renard: never mind
      Agatha Macbeth: did you forget the / ?
      Zen Arado: you live near Fay In RL Bert?
      Bertram Jacobus: 200 km
      Mickorod Renard: wow,,busy tonite
      Agatha Macbeth: They all come to see you Mick
      Mickorod Renard: ;)
      Zen Arado: you're looking a bit pale Sharon
      Bertram Jacobus: very special outfit sharon (!?) :-)
      Liza Deischer: I found even a spot next to you Mick :-)
      Agatha Macbeth: Ghost bride?
      Mickorod Renard: yeaaa
      SophiaSharon Larnia: just got covered in some ash, Bert ;p
      Agatha Macbeth: :DDDDDDDDD
      Fay Yedmore smiles
      Agatha Macbeth just choked on a glass of Merlot
      Bertram Jacobus: baeh - could you please take also the rest of that that i can
      fly home sharon ? and get also paid again from my boss ? ;o)
      SophiaSharon Larnia: eek, dont waste it now
      Agatha Macbeth: I didn't say I wasted it ;-)
      Zen Arado: you'll get home soon now Bert
      Liza Deischer: srill stuck Bert, yes of course you are, nothing changed
      Bertram Jacobus: heyy ara ! long time no see (felt) (?) ;o)
      SophiaSharon Larnia: oooh still not home Bert aww
      Wol Euler: hello everyone
      Fay Yedmore: here in holland the started flying again
      Zen Arado: they are lifting restrictions
      Agatha Macbeth: Yes, but when?
      Fay Yedmore: this night the started
      arabella Ella: Europe is now split into three flight zones
      Fay Yedmore: they
      arabella Ella: one is fine for flying
      Agatha Macbeth: Hotels must be doing a roaring trade
      arabella Ella: the other is 'caution zone'
      Bertram Jacobus: my next try is for wendsday morning
      SophiaSharon Larnia: right Agatha!
      arabella Ella: the other no fly - yet
      Qt Core: au flying authorities are opening skies tomorrom 8am
      Agatha Macbeth: 'No fly zone' - sounds familiar
      Wol Euler: I just read that Gaya is stuck in England, she won't be going to
      San Francisco either
      SophiaSharon Larnia: :(
      arabella Ella: i think however all the caution is exaggerated as the test
      flights demonstrated
      Agatha Macbeth: She can come and see me!
      Liza Deischer: oh, not a good message
      Qt Core: but better safe then sorry
      Zen Arado: they are opening tomorrow in UK
      SophiaSharon Larnia: agrees with Qt
      Wol Euler: well, there is some doubt about that, ara. The Norwegian air force
      claims to have found signs of engine damage in fighters that flew through the
      Bertram Jacobus: what are the sf retreat dates ?
      Agatha Macbeth: Erk
      arabella Ella: yes tomorrow UK opens but only for a few long distance flights
      mainly returning to UK
      Wol Euler: it'
      Mickorod Renard: excuse me a mom,,just doin something in rl
      Wol Euler: it's this week, Bert, until Friday
      Agatha Macbeth: Whispers what?
      Liza Deischer: I'm afraid this is one of those occasions, that it is just who
      you are talking too
      Agatha Macbeth: Mm
      Wol Euler: heh, sharon has run down
      Wol Euler: somebody turn her key :)
      arabella Ella: :)
      SophiaSharon Larnia: ?
      Agatha Macbeth: ??
      SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
      Wol Euler: on your back :)
      Liza Deischer: :-)
      Agatha Macbeth: Why is there a key on your back Shaz?
      Agatha Macbeth: Or is it a windmill?
      Zen Arado: stop winding her up :)
      Wol Euler: heheheheh
      Agatha Macbeth groans
      SophiaSharon Larnia: come to think of it, am feeling a bit laggy... it not
      scripted THAT way, if thats what your thinking Aggers
      Agatha Macbeth: Eh?
      Bertram Jacobus: don´t some of you like the silence ?
      Agatha Macbeth takes a closer look
      SophiaSharon Larnia: i felt like a big useless cog in a big huge machine a few
      weeks ago, and just kept it because i liked it
      Wol Euler: sorry, bert, I didn'T notice the bell
      Agatha Macbeth: I feel like that all the time
      Qt Core: hasn't moon something like it too ?
      Bertram Jacobus: susi said she wouldn´t like it
      Zen Arado: his is a dharma wheel
      SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
      Bertram Jacobus: i like it very much
      Zen Arado: the Budha started the dharma wheel turning - it is said
      SophiaSharon Larnia: it turns it turns
      Bertram Jacobus: so many teachres (!) ...
      Agatha Macbeth: Well somebody had to
      Bertram Jacobus: whether there are also still pupils ?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: funny how many ideologies using a turning imagery
      Bertram Jacobus: turning ?
      Zen Arado: repentance
      Mickorod Renard: life is always a cycle
      Zen Arado: turn around and go the other way
      Mickorod Renard: stop and take five
      Mickorod Renard: or in our case 9
      SophiaSharon Larnia: or 9
      Wol Euler: :)
      Agatha Macbeth takes six instead
      Mickorod Renard: :)
      Zen Arado: a cycle?
      Agatha Macbeth: Just to be awkward
      Zen Arado: you mean we have to go through this again?
      Mickorod Renard: well,,cycle like the seasons
      arabella Ella: i like the silence ... but am not always disciplined
      Wol Euler: I hope not, zen.
      Mickorod Renard: and day and night
      SophiaSharon Larnia: is it still marching to a different drum, if everyones
      drum is different
      Wol Euler: but then, who knows? Perhaps we have done thousands of times
      Zen Arado: cycle of samsara
      Agatha Macbeth: Groundhog day
      Mickorod Renard: I think its worth remembering that much of life is repetitive
      in nature
      Agatha Macbeth: Taxes especially
      Zen Arado: is it?
      Zen Arado: if you look carefully enough it is always different I think
      Mickorod Renard: I think so,,although I wouldnt want to impose my idea;s on
      Zen Arado: sameness is only a story we tell ourselves
      SophiaSharon Larnia: different nows?
      Mickorod Renard: yes, diferent,,but also similar
      Zen Arado: I love imposing my ideas on others :)
      Mickorod Renard: he he
      Zen Arado: they never listen anyway :)
      Agatha Macbeth: If they're good ideas, who cares Zen?
      Zen Arado: zen is largely about seeing the extraordinary in the 'ordinary
      Mickorod Renard: sorry,,someone say something?
      Zen Arado: in the simplicity
      Bertram Jacobus: ;o)
      Mickorod Renard: :)
      Zen Arado: :)
      Zen Arado: ok I get it :)
      Agatha Macbeth: ^.^
      Agatha Macbeth: Do you?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
      Agatha Macbeth: If you get it what do I get?
      Bertram Jacobus: the repititions ... i think them often as coils ...
      Zen Arado: I only get 'ordinary' anyway
      Agatha Macbeth: Naah!
      Mickorod Renard: well,,I think this is part of the purpose of the taking time
      to observe
      Zen Arado: so have to make the best of it
      SophiaSharon Larnia: good point MIck
      Zen Arado: no fancy retreats in SF for me :(
      arabella Ella: but isnt there both elements in life ... both sameness and
      routine plus different things which could be more depending on one's
      Mickorod Renard: for both seeing what is so special,,that we overlook,,and
      also seeing what we also have experience of, that may help simplify lifes
      Agatha Macbeth: Or other people...
      Wol Euler: on the other hand, who else here has made a podcast? :-P
      Mickorod Renard: whats that?
      Zen Arado: he he
      Wol Euler: ask Zen :)
      arabella Ella: a podcast ... for what Wol?
      Agatha Macbeth: Didn't Bleu mention them?
      Mickorod Renard: I made qa plaster cast once
      Zen Arado: http://www.thesecularbuddhist.com/episode_007.php
      Zen Arado: thought I'd never get that in :)
      SophiaSharon Larnia: :
      SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
      Agatha Macbeth: That's what you always say '-)
      Zen Arado: because it's true :(
      Agatha Macbeth: Eek
      arabella Ella: wow cool Zen well done ... oooops shhhhhhh
      Agatha Macbeth: Shhhhhhh
      Fay Yedmore: sorry ppl i go sleep i wish you all a greaat time ;-)
      Agatha Macbeth: (Bye Fay)
      Zen Arado: bye Fay :)
      Wol Euler: goodnight fay, take care
      Qt Core: bye Fay
      Agatha Macbeth: Shhhh
      Liza Deischer: bye Fay
      SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Fay!
      Agatha Macbeth: The bells made deaf you know
      Agatha Macbeth: me
      Agatha Macbeth: Esmerelda
      SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at the symmetry
      Mickorod Renard: thats cool Zen
      Zen Arado: the bells the bells.....
      Agatha Macbeth: Really gets his back up
      Mickorod Renard: bye Fay
      Zen Arado: :)
      arabella Ella: :)
      Wol Euler groajns
      Wol Euler: -j
      Zen Arado: Charles Laughton?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: lolol
      Agatha Macbeth: No, it was me
      Agatha Macbeth: I had a hunch
      Zen Arado: :)
      Agatha Macbeth: They call me Isiah cos one eye's 'igher than the other
      Wol Euler whimpers and pleads for mercy
      Zen Arado: I mentioned Pab on podcast
      Zen Arado: and gave link to Wiki
      Wol Euler: I haven't heard it yet, just got in from work
      Wol Euler: but will listen later
      arabella Ella: how long is it Zen please?
      Zen Arado: haven't heard it myself
      Bertram Jacobus: i don´t know how to use podcasts
      Mickorod Renard: me too..but I like the presentation
      Zen Arado: don't know half an hour maybe
      Wol Euler: it's just an MP3, I think?
      arabella Ella: ah
      Wol Euler: if you doubleclick onthe link, the media player should launch it
      Zen Arado: wouldn't have done it if I thought about it
      arabella Ella: am listening to it now
      Zen Arado: thought 'what the hell'
      arabella Ella: cool
      Bertram Jacobus: ah. wol. ty. as always : friendly helper ... :-)
      Agatha Macbeth: Good philosophy that: 'What the hell' :))
      Wol Euler: :)
      Zen Arado: yep
      Zen Arado: my favourite one :)
      Agatha Macbeth: Yep
      SophiaSharon Larnia: could get up to some interesting things that way
      Agatha Macbeth: Why not
      Zen Arado: gets you into trouble too though :)
      SophiaSharon Larnia: ha yes
      Agatha Macbeth thinks Sharon needs to plug her sun bed in
      Mickorod Renard: ahh' what the hell'
      SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
      Zen Arado: or get a blood transfusion
      SophiaSharon Larnia: well, if itbothers you that much ^.^
      Wol Euler: no, it's great. Ignore them.
      arabella Ella: it does not bother me :)
      Agatha Macbeth: Who said 'bothers' ?
      Zen Arado: hopes there aren't any vampires around
      Agatha Macbeth: Actually it is nice
      Zen Arado: lean pickings here
      Zen Arado: sorry
      SophiaSharon Larnia: its interesting to see the reactions of strangers in sl ,
      its funny actually
      Agatha Macbeth: Go to the blood bank and make a withdrawal
      SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
      Agatha Macbeth: Strangers?
      arabella Ella: she does not need blood or sun any more
      Zen Arado: actually the pale look is quite attractive
      Agatha Macbeth: Yep
      SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
      Wol Euler: well, we are clearly not strangers to each other, Agatha.
      Mickorod Renard: I think I was bitten , well my avi,,on neck just below left
      Agatha Macbeth: Er, true
      SophiaSharon Larnia: i meant sl resident i never tlked to before
      Agatha Macbeth: ?
      Wol Euler: that's a pretty good definition of stranger in either world.
      Zen Arado: KInd of Irish look
      Mickorod Renard: he he he
      Agatha Macbeth: Which stranger do we mean?
      Zen Arado: cos we never get any sun
      Wol Euler: [13:38] SophiaSharon Larnia: its interesting to see the reactions
      of strangers in sl , its funny actually [13:38] Agatha Macbeth: Go to the
      blood bank and make a withdrawal [13:38] SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs [13:38]
      Agatha Macbeth: Strangers?
      Mickorod Renard: virtual strangers
      Agatha Macbeth: Yes but which strangers?
      Agatha Macbeth: Stranger than fiction?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: ive encountered peole saying something, both unpleasant
      and complimentary, depending on the outragousness of the avatar
      Agatha Macbeth: Stranger on the shore?
      Zen Arado: strangers in the night
      Agatha Macbeth: Stranger than life?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: we're so visually oriented
      Zen Arado: groans in anticipation
      SophiaSharon Larnia: and judge immediately on appearance
      Agatha Macbeth: With our ears
      SophiaSharon Larnia: someone will say something nice and then run away
      Zen Arado: see with our ears and hear with our eyes
      Agatha Macbeth: Something nice then run away
      SophiaSharon Larnia: or be cruel for some reason i cant figure out
      Wol Euler nods.
      Bertram Jacobus: nice idea zen
      Zen Arado: true
      Zen Arado: there was a video called that posted yesterday Bert
      arabella Ella: i think the importance people give to appearance when meeting
      strangers on SL is amazing
      Zen Arado: by John Loori
      SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
      Zen Arado: cna get link if you like
      Bertram Jacobus: no ty zen. all too much. sry. ty again
      Wol Euler: I think it's actually more valid here than in RL, ara.
      SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Wol
      Zen Arado: http://www.vimeo.com/7312114
      Wol Euler: here every aspect of appearance was chosen (at least potentially)
      Mickorod Renard: can you remember,,a long time ago,,when we used to talk about
      play as being here?
      Bertram Jacobus: the title is enough for me at the moment
      Wol Euler: whereas in RL so much is random and/or genetic
      SophiaSharon Larnia: it is a form of playing as being MIck
      arabella Ella: that's very true Wol
      Zen Arado: it is about art and zen Bert
      SophiaSharon Larnia: appearance as reaction, or something
      SophiaSharon Larnia: sl is a whole drawing board for playing as being
      Zen Arado: SL takes away a lot of the normal criteria for judging people by
      SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
      Mickorod Renard: yes, it certainly offers a nice medium for bashing out
      Zen Arado: I think
      Wol Euler: that's interesting, zen
      arabella Ella: yes Zen it does for me too
      Wol Euler: perhaps it disables the criteria for judging people directionally
      Wol Euler: can't look at the clohtes and say "must be rich/poor"
      Wol Euler: but we do look at avs and judge their age :)
      Mickorod Renard: I can still give away clue's that I am stupid
      Zen Arado: mine doesn't give my age :)
      Wol Euler: your SL age, sure.
      arabella Ella: well there is one avi i met in RL who i recognised from his avi
      ... not someone from PaB tho
      Wol Euler: you are clearly not new to SL, even to somebody who can't bother to
      read profiles
      Wol Euler: tell us more, ara?
      arabella Ella: well it was an academic from the UK who i first met on SL
      arabella Ella: then later in RL
      arabella Ella: and when we met in RL his RL persona is identical to his avi
      Bertram Jacobus: there is an ava generator in sl which makes avas from your rl
      photos ...
      Wol Euler: huh
      SophiaSharon Larnia: wow
      Mickorod Renard: I will stay away from that then Bert
      arabella Ella: he uses SL for community building
      Bertram Jacobus: lol. always jokin mick ;o)
      Mickorod Renard: I hope Gaya hasnt used that
      Zen Arado: you think our AVi could have a different personality to our RL one
      Wol Euler: oh yes.
      Bertram Jacobus: "there are always differences and same elements" ...
      arabella Ella: i meant image not personality
      Zen Arado: does our avi change our personality?
      Wol Euler: yep
      arabella Ella: yes
      SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
      Mickorod Renard: maybe it could unleash a jeckle and hyde personality?
      Bertram Jacobus: all takes influences
      Zen Arado: hmm....
      Zen Arado: thought you did Mick :)
      arabella Ella: i think our avi could enrich our personality
      Mickorod Renard: :)
      SophiaSharon Larnia: i agree with that, but wonder if the change could be
      sustained obver a long period of time
      Wol Euler: being wol is definitely enriching my experience of hte world, and
      of myself
      SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
      Bertram Jacobus: so it´s for me ara - the whole net - i feel it as addition,
      arabella Ella: precisely Wol
      arabella Ella: and yes Bert i agree with you there too
      Mickorod Renard: I feel like me now
      SophiaSharon Larnia: playing to find being
      Zen Arado: I find my female disconcerting
      Bertram Jacobus: and i like to drop all that again and again
      Wol Euler: how so, zen?
      Zen Arado: female alt I mean
      Mickorod Renard: if it wasnt for the fact that quitting here would mean not
      seeing u guys I would quit sl
      Wol Euler: oh wow
      Zen Arado: feel so natural being her
      Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
      Zen Arado: worries me a bit
      arabella Ella: :)
      Zen Arado: I am not gay
      SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
      Mickorod Renard: although some of the classes are good
      arabella Ella: surely no cause for worry Zen just let it be
      Zen Arado: why Mick?
      Wol Euler: no reason why you should be worried, zen.
      Wol Euler: IMHO
      Qt Core: i still can't create an alt as i can't think about what i'll do
      differently than Qt's way
      Bertram Jacobus: humble ? for sure humble ? ;op
      Mickorod Renard: well,,I feel like I am me again
      Wol Euler: qt, that is exactly the point :)
      Wol Euler: don't think about it either way. just let it be
      Wol Euler: see what happens
      Wol Euler: wu wei
      Zen Arado: yes Pema :)
      Qt Core: it would be exactly as Qt, wasted time
      Bertram Jacobus: wu wei is wonderful ! :-)
      SophiaSharon Larnia: who ho for wu wei
      Wol Euler shakes her head. YOu have no way of knowing that, qt.
      Wol Euler: trust me
      Mickorod Renard: I cant be an alt either,,cos time as an alt would mean not
      time as me
      Zen Arado: could help me empathise with women more
      Wol Euler smiles.
      SophiaSharon Larnia: some pley with their shadow as alts
      Zen Arado: is your present avi you Mick?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: play*
      arabella Ella: altho i dont pay much appearance to avi appearance i think i
      treat avis differently somehow depending on gender
      Zen Arado: but how do you know what your shadow is?
      Mickorod Renard: well,,its obviously not me,,but I act as if I am me
      SophiaSharon Larnia: ah zen
      arabella Ella: ah ... a voyage of discovery to unleash your shadow ...
      Qt Core: the shadow, the egotistican core with no social filter ?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: i think there are many kinds of shadows
      Qt Core: ops, sorry ;-)
      arabella Ella: not necessarily
      Mickorod Renard: I think Micko the Avi has helped me return from a certain
      withdrawal from the world
      Wol Euler smiles.
      Mickorod Renard: :)
      Zen Arado: that's good Mick
      Bertram Jacobus: happy about that mick (me) :-)
      Mickorod Renard: and much thanks to you guys
      Wol Euler: I'm glad you came, Mick.
      Mickorod Renard: thankyou
      arabella Ella: Zen have you considered organising a theme session where you
      can use voice to chat and tell us more about Zen?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: nice idea :)
      Zen Arado: hmmm
      arabella Ella: am trying to encourage Zen as we discussed this here the other
      day too
      Zen Arado: oh?
      arabella Ella: have you forgotten?
      arabella Ella: :)
      Zen Arado: ah about chanting you mean?
      arabella Ella: yes
      arabella Ella: and maybe combine it as a theme session on Zen Buddhism?
      Zen Arado: could teel you about taking the precepts sometime I guess
      Mickorod Renard: is there a clear diference between Zen Budhism and the other
      types that can be decribed in 3 words?
      Mickorod Renard: or so
      Zen Arado: would take more tan that Mick
      Mickorod Renard: Zen is the japanese version yes?
      Zen Arado: would have to describe how it developed
      Zen Arado: yes
      Mickorod Renard: ahh
      Bertram Jacobus: "zen more naked" (?) - like this ? ;-)
      Wol Euler: naked zen!
      Wol Euler: that would sell.
      SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
      Zen Arado: the word Zen means meditation
      Mickorod Renard: I see
      Zen Arado: there is a strong emphasis on meditation
      Zen Arado: comes fro Indian 'dyana' and then Chinese Cha'an
      Bertram Jacobus: (especially soto) ...
      Zen Arado: many schools died out
      Mickorod Renard: are there benefits?
      Zen Arado: main scholls are Rinzai and Soto as Bert said
      Zen Arado: Zen is more simple than other forms of Buddhism I think
      Zen Arado: more austere
      Bertram Jacobus: the other scholls have more pictures - right zen ?
      arabella Ella: perhaps you (Zen) and Bert could organise a theme session with
      a discussion amongst you two?
      Wol Euler: "hte missionary position to their trantra" as a friend described it
      Mickorod Renard: I seem to get the idea Zen Budhism can adapt better into
      western ideaology
      Zen Arado: think there are add-ons in other forms
      Bertram Jacobus: that was what i meaned with "naked" in german one could
      express that like this : more simple,
      Zen Arado: yes
      Zen Arado: sure
      Qt Core: something like the difference between catholics and
      protestant/reformed ?
      Bertram Jacobus: but my impression is, that for all those forms exist also
      western people ...
      Zen Arado: maybe Qt
      Zen Arado: I was a presbyterian for a while
      Zen Arado: funny thing is thet Zen seems to appeal more to Catholics in
      Bertram Jacobus: oh
      Bertram Jacobus: intersting
      Mickorod Renard: I wonder why?,,any idea?
      Bertram Jacobus: you have an explanation for that zen ?
      Bertram Jacobus: or somebody else ?
      Zen Arado: a esuit priest who is also a zen teacher comes here and leads
      Zen Arado: Jesuit
      Wol Euler slips quietly away to bed. Goodnight all, take care.
      Zen Arado: no idea why
      Mickorod Renard: Ara,,didnt u know a Jesuit that does some budhism?
      SophiaSharon Larnia: am off too, bye all :)
      arabella Ella: i knew one who practised meditation
      Qt Core: bye ara
       arabella Ella: just finished listening to your podcast Zen it lasts just over
      45 mins ... excellent though well done!
      Zen Arado: bye Sharon
      Zen Arado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kennedy_%28roshi%29
      Mickorod Renard: what happened to Agatha,,she is quiet?
      Zen Arado: thanks Ara
      Zen Arado: you are a glutton for punishment :)
      Zen Arado: and still awake!
       arabella Ella: :)
      Mickorod Renard: I am struggling opening windows up
      Bertram Jacobus: okay - i think, i´ll leave, too - ty all and may ... :-))
      Mickorod Renard: bye bert
      arabella Ella: nite Bertram
      Zen Arado: nite Bert :)
      Mickorod Renard: sleep well
      Qt Core: bye bert
      Bertram Jacobus: ty again ! :-)
      Zen Arado: keep off the Guiness :)
      Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
      arabella Ella: hope you manage to get home soon :)
      Bertram Jacobus: tyty :-))
      Mickorod Renard: at least he has friends with him
      Mickorod Renard: its not so lonely
      arabella Ella: yes
      Zen Arado: must be awful being stuck in Ireland :)
      Mickorod Renard: he he
      arabella Ella: well it is amazing how many people are taking 30 hour train
      trips or long distance taxis to get home
      arabella Ella: but must be awful stuck anywhere you dont wish to be
      Mickorod Renard: how much is a pint of guiness there Zen?
      Zen Arado: read abut a group took a taxi from Belfast to London yeterday
      arabella Ella: ah ... over the sea?
      Qt Core: a friend of a colleague had to take a car with driver as in rome
      there is nothing more avaiable to come to Milan
      Zen Arado: in a pub ? don't know
      Zen Arado: I had a can earlier though
      Mickorod Renard: :)
      Zen Arado: draught Guinness
      arabella Ella: Zen following the podcast and the questions raised
      Mickorod Renard: I like guiness
      arabella Ella: do you think secular buddhism misses out on anything religious
      (as opposed to spiritual)
      Zen Arado: yes Ara?
      arabella Ella: does the secularism leave a 'gap'?
      Zen Arado: good question Ara
      arabella Ella: (just trying to be critical as the website says one should be)
      Zen Arado: I go to a group called Skeptical Buddhists in SL
      Zen Arado: and they are very against any religious trappings
      Zen Arado: or any hint of the supernatural
      arabella Ella: yes? please say more ...
      Zen Arado: but I don't mind zen rituals
      Zen Arado: they are just a framework for the practice for me
      arabella Ella: yes
      Zen Arado: so long as you can take them or leave them....
      arabella Ella: so is the claim that the framework and the practice are more
      important than any spiritual or religious underlying sentiments?
      Zen Arado: zen is about not holding beliefs really
      arabella Ella: not even in karma or samsara?
      Mickorod Renard: I suppose beliefs are filters, or veils
      Zen Arado: well...beliefs in things that aren't already obvious
      Zen Arado: things you would need faith or something
      Zen Arado: you only need the basica
      arabella Ella: yes
      Zen Arado: impermanence, no-self and the four noble truths (which are about
      arabella Ella: i am wondering whether there is any other 'practice' besides
      the various forms of buddhism (including Zen) that allow for a secularist
      Zen Arado: there are practics that extract things from Buddhism
      Zen Arado: like mindfulness meditation
      Zen Arado: Jon Kabat Zinn
      arabella Ella: yes but i would take that to be an offshoot of buddhism too
      Mickorod Renard: its an interesting thing though,,there are alot of diferent
      idea's about,,and if one wants to try and just see the way odf life in its
      pure form,,there is so much obscuring
      Zen Arado: many modern spiritual teachers borrow from Buddhism
      arabella Ella: yes i guess so
      arabella Ella: reflection is a very important element of being
      Zen Arado: Buddhism is being 'psychologized' I think too
      Zen Arado: elements used to treat people with depression etc
      arabella Ella: yes and a lot of westernised practises may be 'watered down'
      buddhist practice
      Zen Arado: yes CBT seems very Buddhist to me
      arabella Ella: CBT?
      Mickorod Renard: Although I make no clain to reading peoples minds, I do seem
      to think there are many out there who do not ever ponder on beliefs , rituals
      or religions,,they just function on a day top day basis
      Zen Arado: cognitive behavioural therapy
      arabella Ella: oh yes
      Qt Core: have to go, bye all and sleep well
      arabella Ella: notte Qt
      Zen Arado: bye Qt
      Mickorod Renard: bye Qt
      Mickorod Renard: ok Zen,,bed time 4 me
      Mickorod Renard: thanks for a good session
      Mickorod Renard: nite nite Ara
      Zen Arado: yes gtg myself
      Mickorod Renard: bye,,c u soon
      Zen Arado: nite and thanks for discussion

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