Page last modified 08:10, 28 Apr 2010 by wol

*The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.*

greetings and people leaving to go to kira

Liza Deischer: hey Lia

Lia Rikugun: hello liza and sartre

Liza Deischer: en Sartre

Sartre Placebo: hi and bye, i am yaku's alt on its way to the phil class

Lia Rikugun: ok have fun

Sartre Placebo: take care you both :)

Liza Deischer: you look great Sartre

Sartre Placebo: it was a gift

Liza Deischer: ah

Liza Deischer: have fun :-)

Lia Rikugun: so its the two of us :)

Liza Deischer: and that for the 13.00 pm session

Liza Deischer: did I already gave you this one?

Lia Rikugun: what do you mean

Lia Rikugun: oh ok

Lia Rikugun: is this a new notecard?

Liza Deischer: I already gave you one?

Liza Deischer: I can't remember who I gave it to?

Lia Rikugun: I have PaB information

Lia Rikugun: but thats prob a different one ;)

Lia Rikugun: so for me the PaB meditation is new :) thank you!

Lia Rikugun: hello zon

Liza Deischer: ok, yw

Zon Quar: heya

Liza Deischer: if you're interested, just let me know

Liza Deischer: hey Zon

Zon Quar: quiet ?

Zon Quar: is there a lecture at Kira ?

Liza Deischer: you mean all those people around?

Zon Quar: yup

Liza Deischer: Oh, Zon, Thanks

Liza Deischer: there is

Liza Deischer: dream something

Zon Quar: ah that expains

Liza Deischer: sorry I'll be off

Lia Rikugun: oh ok

Lia Rikugun: take care

Zon Quar: bye

Liza Deischer: maybe see you later

Zon Quar: i visit Kira

Lia Rikugun: ok have fun

Zon Quar: c u Lia ã‹¡

Lia Rikugun: :)

Lia Rikugun: byebye

--BELL--

Lia Rikugun: hello wol!

Wol Euler: hello lia

Wol Euler: how are you today, lia?

Lia Rikugun: well i am good but more importantly how are you?

Lia Rikugun: stuck in germany?

Wol Euler smiles.

Wol Euler: stuck in germany, indeed.

Wol Euler: there are worse places to be, I suppose.

Lia Rikugun: :)

Lia Rikugun: maybe you can still use this week for meditation?

Wol Euler: I'm trying :)

Lia Rikugun: yes very good :)

Wol Euler: actually I'm wishing I had kept my mouth shut and pretended to have gone.

Lia Rikugun: why?

Wol Euler: Work has exploded in a frenzy of allegedly important, allegedly urgent stuff

Lia Rikugun: oh wow

Wol Euler: though much of the frenzy concerns things that have been in place, unchanged, for up to ten months.

Lia Rikugun: haha

Wol Euler: i.e. they are urgent now because nobody gave a damn to look at them at any time during the last year

Lia Rikugun: maybe this opens up to new possibilities

Lia Rikugun: :)

Lia Rikugun: change things that havent changed in a long time

Lia Rikugun: ;)

Wol Euler nods

Wol Euler: sure, the changes are not unreasonable

Lia Rikugun: i like change

Wol Euler: I'm just amused at the (to my mind) dissonance between their alleged importance now, and the fact that they were not important enough to look at for a year

Lia Rikugun: maybe because there is nothing else to do haha, people always find work somewhere

Wol Euler nods

Wol Euler: that is part of it, I think.

Wol Euler: my bosses like to feel that they are working on the most important currently unsolved problem

Lia Rikugun: like a lot of people

Wol Euler: for them to have looked at this stuff eight months ago, *before* it became a crisis, would have felt to them like htey were wasting time

Lia Rikugun: 'we are solving the world problem'

Lia Rikugun: :)

Lia Rikugun: i was stuck in germany too :)

Lia Rikugun: well not as bad

Wol Euler: where were you hoping to go?

Lia Rikugun: i wanted to make a trip to madrid

Wol Euler: ah

Lia Rikugun: for 3 days

Wol Euler: nice

Lia Rikugun: and well it didnt happen

Lia Rikugun: :)

Lia Rikugun: but on the other hand, we decided early enough to not even go to the airport

Wol Euler nods

Lia Rikugun: and deal with the chaos there but instead stay in aachen and just enjoy being here

Wol Euler: I am so thankful that the volcano erupted when it did, early in the week!

Lia Rikugun: and it was great

Wol Euler: I might have been one of the thousands stuck in an airport for days on end

Lia Rikugun: yes i agree

Lia Rikugun: i dont want to imagine myself sitting in madridd still and waiting for the airplane

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: did you take a "holiday at home"?

Lia Rikugun: so what kind of meditation did you do during the 2 days now if I may ask?

Lia Rikugun: yes

Wol Euler: good :)

Lia Rikugun: unplanned holiday at home but just one day, yesterday

Wol Euler nods

Wol Euler: it takes an effort to see our home city as though we were visitors to it

Wol Euler: breaking habits of not-looking and not-going-to-see

Lia Rikugun: it is crazy what you can suddenly see, things you are so accustomed to

Wol Euler nods.

Lia Rikugun: i live in a city from the middle ages and I dont even see it anymore, it is crazy

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Lia Rikugun: only if i remind myself

Lia Rikugun: and then it is beautiful

Wol Euler: we lose sight of that so easily

Wol Euler: pardon the pun

Lia Rikugun: before the PaB session i did a meditation or well sally

Wol Euler smiles.

Lia Rikugun: which was very energizing

--BELL--

Wol Euler: I should try that again, it was a wonderful exercise when we did that togehter in Malta

Lia Rikugun: yes i think so too

Lia Rikugun: i need to be in the right mood

Lia Rikugun: and now I just do it like once a week or even less

Lia Rikugun: but i think i learned a lot

Lia Rikugun: about myself i guess

Wol Euler: from the sallies?

Lia Rikugun: yes

Lia Rikugun: how i can handle scary situations

Lia Rikugun: :)

Wol Euler: worth knowing!

Lia Rikugun: well i dont know

Lia Rikugun: at least its fun

Wol Euler: that too, sure :)

Wol Euler: but building up a history of Erfolgserlebnisse, and being aware of them, is a very good thing

Wol Euler: it helps ground you, reduces your susceptibility to fear

Lia Rikugun: yes, and seeing what arises

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Lia Rikugun: hello arabella

Wol Euler: hello ara

arabella Ella: Hiya Wol, Lia

Lia Rikugun: we are talking about meditation and fear and how to get grounded

arabella Ella: ah interesting

Lia Rikugun: but we dont have a solution :)

arabella Ella: hope i am not disturbing you

Wol Euler: :)

Wol Euler: ach, don't be silly :)

arabella Ella: :)

Lia Rikugun: maybe you have some insights :)

arabella Ella: what exactly are you looking for a solution to?

Lia Rikugun: to get grounded, the exact formula

arabella Ella: mmmmmmmm

arabella Ella: something like H = BC squared?

arabella Ella: (only joking)

Lia Rikugun: something like tkae one hint of confidence mix it carefully with strength and then ...

Wol Euler: exactly, we just need to fill in the variables with real values :)

arabella Ella: let's reflect on that a bit

arabella Ella: IMHO you first need motivation to move ahead with grounding

arabella Ella: no motivation, nothing happens

arabella Ella: next step i guess could be 'focus' followed by 'self-discipline'

arabella Ella: but i may be wrong?

Lia Rikugun: what does grounded mean for you?

Lia Rikugun: what does it mean for me hm?

arabella Ella: it reminds me a bit of when i did Tai Chi

Wol Euler: perhaps that's the best place to start

Lia Rikugun: find the middle, get the energy from there and trust it

arabella Ella: for Tai Chi you need to feel physically grounded yet ... cant remember the word ... let the chakras flow?

Lia Rikugun: maybe

arabella Ella: and grounded could also be psychological ... or practice

Wol Euler: "out of the head, into the body" is part of it for me, I tend to retreat into my head if I don't watch myself

Lia Rikugun: i can relate to that image wol

arabella Ella nods

Lia Rikugun: i call it being too much myself :)

Wol Euler: being in my head is very non-grounded, very loose and wobbly and weak

Lia Rikugun: going with every thought and feeling

Lia Rikugun: ok so we have some exaples for not being grounded

--BELL--

Lia Rikugun: grounded: doing tai-chi? meditating?

Lia Rikugun: wu-wei?

arabella Ella: perhaps we could attempt to formulate some examples of grounding?

Lia Rikugun: following your intuition?

Lia Rikugun: (just throwing things in :)

Wol Euler: cooking :)

Wol Euler: when I'm in a good mood and not in a hurry

arabella Ella: somehow 'knowing' things are in the right balance

Wol Euler: (actually, "not being in a hurry" is essential to grounding)

Lia Rikugun: yes i agree completely :)

Lia Rikugun: can you be in a hurry and be grounded at the same time?

Lia Rikugun: whenever you need to do something fast

Wol Euler: I'm inclined to doubt it, Lia

Lia Rikugun: i am not sure

Wol Euler: oh, wait, "fast" is not the same as "hurry"

Lia Rikugun: hm ok

Wol Euler: hurry implies tension and unease and pressure

Lia Rikugun: then it is a word-thing

arabella Ella: depends on how much of a hurry one is in ... if it is 'normal' hurrying then maybe it is possible?

Wol Euler: fast is just a state

Lia Rikugun: ok then i can agree

Lia Rikugun: or

Lia Rikugun: i am not sure

Lia Rikugun: can there never be tension when you are grounded

Lia Rikugun: ?

Wol Euler: I can be working very fast when I am in "flow", but I am not hurrying hten.

Wol Euler: and if somebody makes me hurry, I cannot get into flow

Wol Euler: flow is grounded.

arabella Ella nods

Lia Rikugun: yes

Wol Euler: concentration is grounded

arabella Ella: yes pressure from others to do things as they think best goes against grounding

Lia Rikugun: for me it seems much more difficult now to define this grounded

arabella Ella: an example Lia ... like when you are writing the results of your research in such a comfortable way and it all flows quite easily

arabella Ella: and it comes out right too

Lia Rikugun: it seems as if you just need to switch somethign inside you and any situation is then grounded with pressure or without

Wol Euler: "just" is a very tricky word :)

Lia Rikugun: yes yes

arabella Ella: if only it were that easy!

Lia Rikugun: but is this switch really related to the pressure itself

arabella Ella: switch on or switch off

Lia Rikugun: or is the pressure only a consequence of not being switched?

arabella Ella: could easily be i guess yes

Wol Euler: good question

Lia Rikugun: so pressure is maybe a consequence comes after not being grounded

arabella Ella: but i suggest we could look at grounding as a skill which one can practise and learn and improve

Lia Rikugun: i am confused

Lia Rikugun: maybe taking circles here :)

arabella Ella: in what way do you see us going in circles Lia?

Lia Rikugun: no i thought i was :) with my thinking

arabella Ella: yes ... how?

arabella Ella: please say more

Lia Rikugun: because we already stated that pressure is a sign of not being grounded and now i came back to that point

Wol Euler: well, that may be true :)

Lia Rikugun: but i thought that pressure can also be experience being grounded

Wol Euler: being under pressure prevents you becoming grounded, but had you been able to become grounded you might not have been under pressure

Wol Euler: a self-reinforcing cycle

Wol Euler: actually,I've just realized something.

Lia Rikugun: yes?

Wol Euler: I learned a way of becoming grounded some years back, it was partly breathing and also partly a kind of visualization

Wol Euler: but ... how to say this? visualizing action rather than creating an image before my eyes

Wol Euler: what I was doing to become grounded was: dropping :)

Wol Euler: as we do here.

Wol Euler chuckles

Lia Rikugun: :)

Wol Euler: I'd say to myself "put that down"

arabella Ella: :)

Wol Euler: and feel the weight leaving my hands, my shoulders

--BELL--

Lia Rikugun: so you visualized the action of droping the images?

Wol Euler: visualize is not quite right, but I can't find a better word

Lia Rikugun: ok but in this sense, ok nice

Wol Euler: when you visualize, you imagine something as though you were seeing it

Wol Euler: you create an image, and respond to it as though it came in through your eyes

arabella Ella: but did you actually do the action?

Wol Euler: what I was doing was like that except with imagining physical actions and reactions

Wol Euler: I'd imagine opening my hand, feeling the weight leave it

Wol Euler: (I did sometimes do the actions, ara, yes :)

arabella Ella: ah now i think i understand

Wol Euler: hello yaku

Lia Rikugun: hello yaku

arabella Ella: Hiya Yaku

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone

Wol Euler: like visualization, but with a different sense

Lia Rikugun: i am sorry will leave you and go to bed soon :) take care you all

Wol Euler: goodnight lia, take care.

Yakuzza Lethecus: night lia

Lia Rikugun: good night

Wol Euler: enjoy your holiday city tomorrow

arabella Ella: goodnite Lia!

arabella Ella: holiday?

Lia Rikugun: :)

Wol Euler: Aachen is just as good as Madrid :)

arabella Ella: yes it is

Wol Euler: holiday is a feeling, not a place

Lia Rikugun: haha, but i am back to work ;)

arabella Ella: fantastic idea!

Wol Euler: ah well :)

Lia Rikugun: since today

Yakuzza Lethecus: feel at work like at holiday ?

arabella Ella: oh wish u best of luck then

Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

Lia Rikugun: but i will try to keep the holiday eyes to see it as if..

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Lia Rikugun: :D byebye

arabella Ella: :)

Wol Euler grins

Wol Euler: I've taught my boss's kid to say "byebye", it's the only english he knows :)

Wol Euler: he is 30 months

arabella Ella: he he

arabella Ella: how sweet

Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

Wol Euler: it is, really :)

arabella Ella: 30 months ... must be a darling too

Yakuzza Lethecus: how old is he ?

Yakuzza Lethecus: ah

Wol Euler: he knows it's special, because he only says it to me

Wol Euler: but he also knows that it means the same as "tschuss"

arabella Ella: ah ... he knows you are a special person then clever child!

Wol Euler: because he uses it at the right time and place

arabella Ella: brilliant

Wol Euler: mmhmm

arabella Ella: what's next for him to learn then?

Wol Euler: it's amazing to watch children learning to think

Wol Euler: to see them begin to use abstract concepts

arabella Ella: oh yes it certainly is a wonder

Wol Euler: I remember when he started to see in colour, at about five months

arabella Ella: wow

Wol Euler: he suddenly started saying "ooh!" and grabbing at specific things

arabella Ella smiles

Wol Euler: we couldn't figure out what was up, until I noticed that everything he grabbed at was red

arabella Ella: ah ha ... interesting observation ... and a sign he is not colour blind too!

Wol Euler: that was amazing, I had no idea that vision happened that way

arabella Ella: also perhaps the power of the colour red?

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Wol Euler: there's probably an evolutionary-biological explanation why that would be the first colour to see

arabella Ella: and what do you reckon that could be?

Wol Euler: many red berries are poisonous, perhaps ...

arabella Ella: ah maybe

arabella Ella: i must go now

arabella Ella: nite Wol nite Yaku

Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well ara

Wol Euler: goodngiht ara, take care

Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i also better fall asleep

Yakuzza Lethecus: t- 5 hrs

Yakuzza Lethecus: sleep well wol

Wol Euler: before what, yaku?

Wol Euler: hello liza

Yakuzza Lethecus: preparing for work

Wol Euler: oh wow

Wol Euler: go to bed! now!!

Yakuzza Lethecus: :)

Yakuzza Lethecus rushes to bed

Wol Euler: :)

Wol Euler: gute nacht, yaku

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