2010.04.25 0800 - Guardian Session - Appreciating Creativity

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    10 Guardians were present for this session -- Adams Dubrovna, Agatha MacBeth, Bleu Oleander, Eos Amaterasu, Fael Illyar, Maxine Walden, Riddle Sideways, SophiaSharon Larnia, Yakuzza Lethecus and Zen Arado. The discussion continued from last week about the place structure has in the guardian sessions. (Comments to be added later)


    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Agatha!
    Agatha Macbeth: Feeling better today?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not really. a little
    Agatha Macbeth hugs SSL
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ooof the door Adams ;p
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Riddle, Adams
    Agatha Macbeth: :D
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Adams and Bleu
    Agatha Macbeth: And Bleu :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi everyone
    Fael Illyar: Hi Riddle, Bleu :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thanks Aggers
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Adams, Agatha, Fael, Sophia, Bleu
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Riddle, Agatha and Bleu (and Sharon and Fael again) :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi, hi, hi, hi, hi
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Agatha Macbeth: Paul Mccarney?
    Agatha Macbeth: +t
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hey i was going to +t laughs
    Bleu Oleander: hi Maxine
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Maxine
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Maxine
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Maxine
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Maxine :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, all:)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)
    Maxine Walden: (wonders if her coming brought a silence to the group, hoping not)
    Agatha Macbeth: Not really Max ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no Maxine, we all sat down around the sameish time
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: We only just arrived
    Adams Dubrovna: Only in that there was no one else to say "hello" to
    Maxine Walden: :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Fael Illyar smiles.

    SophiaSharon Larnia: checked for an email, outlining an agenda for this meeting, finding none, and appreciating Eliza even more :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    Maxine Walden: :)) yes.sophia
    Maxine Walden: maybe we can come up with an agenda
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I do feel that some agenda from last week was somewhat unresolved :)
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos!
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Eos :)
    Bleu Oleander: does anyone have some thoughts on what we discussed last week?
    Riddle Sideways: Hello Eos
    Maxine Walden: hi, eos
    Agatha Macbeth: Let's tie up the ends then :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Eos
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Eos
    Maxine Walden: bleu, would you remind us of last week's discussion?
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Avs
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (the term herding cats came to mind, but thats not quite right )
    Agatha Macbeth: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: back from SF Eos?
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, got back late last night

    Bleu Oleander: I think we discussed having biz first, maybe a report from the working group ..... and then perhaps a field trip / social time?
    Eos Amaterasu: Had better travel karma than Eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ~~welcome home~~
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods at Bleu
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah yes, field trips
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes poor Eliza, but maybe not so poor now haha
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Riddle Sideways: Yes, we talked on and on about field trips and now can't remember what was said
    Bleu Oleander:

    -What do guardians see as a good balance between
    structure and free-form?

    -Are there ideas for bringing focus while also honoring
    'the space for spontaneity' out of which great ideas often

    -How will topics be chosen? Email? Suggestions to the
    Working Group? Previous guardian sessions?

    -What about a ritual of "News" announcements?

    -Field Trips?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Zen
    Agatha Macbeth is just reading the wiki
    Bleu Oleander: these where Eliza's suggestions
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zen
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Zen
    Zen Arado: HI all sorry for lateness
    Bleu Oleander: hi Zen

    SophiaSharon Larnia: lets table to field trip idea for a few minutes and think about the meeting part, if thats ok?
    Bleu Oleander: sure
    Bleu Oleander: do you like the idea of adding some structure to the guardian mtgs?
    Eos Amaterasu: biz before pleasure?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, structure and me are on uneasy terms, but yes, we come here for a guardian meeting for a reason
    Zen Arado: like an agenda?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: they were set up for a reason
    Bleu Oleander: what is the purpose of the guardian mtg?
    Agatha Macbeth: I'm not great with structure either Sharon :)
    Bleu Oleander: is there one?
    Bleu Oleander: so maybe just play time?
    Fael Illyar: purpose? I think the idea is to get more of us together at once :)
    Zen Arado: perhaps when more 'serious' matters need to be discussed?
    Agatha Macbeth: True Fael
    Eos Amaterasu: and to discuss guardian-specific issues
    Adams Dubrovna: my comment seems not to have gone through
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes specific
    Maxine Walden: One reason for the guardian meetings is for the guardians to have a chance to discuss issues which come up for them in duties as guardians during the PaB sessions; also to have a chance to share perhaps on another level PaB related topics
    Adams Dubrovna: The guardian meeting is the place where we all have a chance for input
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Fael Illyar: and of course, no new people in these :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Usually
    SophiaSharon Larnia: there was no recorder originally here for a reason I thought
    Fael Illyar: yes, these are not recorded, right?
    Bleu Oleander: they are recorded
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, technically i will post it, as Eliza has
    Maxine Walden: tho I think Eliza had been posting the log...
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Only in peoples' own chat logs, if enabled
    Fael Illyar: ah
    Eos Amaterasu: Each weekly guardian meeting log is on the wiki
    Bleu Oleander: it's posted on the wiki
    Agatha Macbeth: There too
    Bleu Oleander: who does that?
    Riddle Sideways: And Pema reads this and knows who has been naughty or nice
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: He he
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
    Eos Amaterasu: Guardian mtg, I've felt, is somewhat meta-PaB: how we as guardians support the PaB process
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Maxine Walden: yes, eos
    Eos Amaterasu: If there's not issues, there's nothing to talk about
    Eos Amaterasu: But some good suggestions, and actions, have come from here
    Maxine Walden: indeed
    Eos Amaterasu: Storm designed this building to look a bit like British parliament
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh dear
    Eos Amaterasu: So that's suggestive
    Maxine Walden: :), had not been aware of that, eos
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh! ok then bye LOL
    Eos Amaterasu: (Storm's a Brit)
    Adams Dubrovna: yes the legislature to the WG executive
    Agatha Macbeth: In that case nothing will get done...

    Riddle Sideways: is spontaneity in sessions a problem?
    Maxine Walden: :) Agatha!
    Eos Amaterasu: truly a riddle
    Zen Arado: yah boo stuff then
    Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Agatha Macbeth: Hear hear
    Fael Illyar: I don't think spontaneity is a problem at all. Quite the opposite :)
    Riddle Sideways: good
    Eos Amaterasu: we had spontaneous brooms last mtg
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how could spontaneity be a problem :)
    Zen Arado: other extreme maybe
    Bleu Oleander: so sounds like less structure, more spontaneity and bring up issues when they arise .... fair summary?
    Riddle Sideways: sometimes ppl in my sessions can not seem to remain serious
    Agatha Macbeth: How about structured spontaneity? ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i do think sessions are getting a little loose though, serious, i think you said what I meant Riddle
    Zen Arado: oxymoron :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Who is?
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: I am
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh

    Maxine Walden: are folks losing focus in the PaB sessions, is that the 'less structure'?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, that seems to be it, loosing focus
    SophiaSharon Larnia: losing*
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but not comfortable with the wording, either :))
    Eos Amaterasu: Aren't we the ones to hold focus, not too tight, not too loose?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Riddle Sideways: dropping focus?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: true Riddle!
    Agatha Macbeth: It is no easy task keeping them structured in my experience, especially when many people are present
    Zen Arado: remembers facing 2 issues 1. Cat naming and 2. pab finance. We spent about 50 mins on I. and 10 mins on 2
    Fael Illyar: you know, that is sounding dangerously close to thinking the focus should be something in particular.
    Adams Dubrovna: yes, harder when many people are there. Maxine does a great job with that
    Riddle Sideways: do you seem to have them not talking on your subject
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Fael
    Maxine Walden: I can recall earlier when this has happened, Pema had suggested that guardians might bring a bit more focus, ask a question about how the practice is going.. ask about questions re PaB, such things as a bit of guidance of the discussion
    Agatha Macbeth: :) at Zen
    Eos Amaterasu: the focus is on dropping
    Fael Illyar: Zen, well, the cat naming is obviously more important ;)
    Agatha Macbeth nods @ Max
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Faels comment is one of the reasons why its hard to do what you said, Maxine :)
    Bleu Oleander: so are we talking about the PaB sessions or this meeting?
    Eos Amaterasu: when you walk through the 90 secs you've lost focus because of excessive focus
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Gaya!
    Adams Dubrovna: hello Gaya :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Gaya :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi Gaya
    Fael Illyar: but seriously though, much less people feel like they want a say in the finance part. :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Gayabunny :)
    Maxine Walden: ah, sorry I was on the PaB sessions...maybe I lost focus on this meeting :)
    Gaya Ethaniel sneaks in. Sorry somehow can't sit on the cushion next to Adams ...
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Gaya
    Eos Amaterasu: 2 sims
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i was too Maxine
    Agatha Macbeth: Different sim, yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Ta da!
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (as an aside, Ive been having problems with cushions in sl for several weeks, I thought it was just me)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ta da!
    Agatha Macbeth: The bunny has landed
    Adams Dubrovna: I had trouble with cushions and doors this morning
    Riddle Sideways: I have bell problems
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe

    Eos Amaterasu: How to "come back" to "focus=playing as being" has been recurrent theme in these meetings
    Agatha Macbeth: You always seem to have probs with doors Adams :)
    Riddle Sideways: seems, just as we get back to focus there is the opportunity to say HI to new person
    Zen Arado: balance between rationality and creativity needed?
    Zen Arado: middle way
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i like that better then structure and spontaneity
    Zen Arado: find ways to incorporate both?
    Riddle Sideways: In RL many of us have AAD (adult attention def.. is that a butterfly)...
    Agatha Macbeth: Strike a happy medium
    Riddle Sideways: why should we not in SL
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    Zen Arado: but that's obvious sorry
    SophiaSharon Larnia: these type of thoughts and discussions are ripe for that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: free association
    Zen Arado: maybe we do anyway?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (brb)

    Zen Arado: maybe we are being too self critical
    Riddle Sideways: ya think.... hmmmm, nope
    Zen Arado: let things work themselves out in a playful way
    Zen Arado: ?
    Agatha Macbeth: Should we ask Pema for specific guidelines to be used in sessions?
    Adams Dubrovna: we can focus on ourselves or focus on the group
    Maxine Walden: trying to be self-reflective can easily slip into self-criticism; maybe that is where remaining playful helps to keep the space and protect from the collapse into the critical
    Eos Amaterasu: Does anyone Why ask Pema specifically? Can we not do this ourselves?
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Bleu Oleander: do we need a leader?
    Agatha Macbeth: Depends on what we are trying to achieve I guess...
    Maxine Walden: take our own authority, reflect upon that playfully perhaps
    Eos Amaterasu: (human beings seem to want to have leaders. ditto for avatars :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Ha, nice one Eos
    Riddle Sideways: Hi Yak
    Bleu Oleander: here's our leader :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey, sry for been late
    Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Yakuzza
    Fael Illyar: The last I checked, avatars come paired with human beings who do the wanting part :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
    Fael Illyar: Hi Yaku :)
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Yakuzza
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yaku :)
    Eos Amaterasu: who's zooming who

    Zen Arado: funny how groups always finish up with a committee structure of Chairperson, secretary, treasurer etc
    Bleu Oleander: seems to me that we should get past the organizational structure and move on to the creativity part
    Zen Arado: do we have to do the committee thing?
    Agatha Macbeth: BTW Fael, the recorder was doubling peoples comments again on Friday night
    Adams Dubrovna: I agree Bleu that we do not need that kind of organization
    Agatha Macbeth: I mentioned it to Wol, she says she doesn't know what causes it tho
    Maxine Walden: Have some thoughts about the creativity part, Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: always
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: creative thought balloons
    Fael Illyar: Wol's the one who has done the scripting for the SL part.
    Maxine Walden: :)), bleu
    Fael Illyar: I don't think I even have the latest version :)
    Agatha Macbeth: No big deal, I edited the duplicate lines out
    Agatha Macbeth: But with a really long session it would be a pain
    Zen Arado: sure would
    Agatha Macbeth: (Like the ones Yaku gets sometimes)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: I like the idea of building SL objects/environments that remind of the 9 secs, PaB
    Eos Amaterasu: subtly
    Eos Amaterasu: and sometimes more grossly
    Bleu Oleander: why don't you just keep a copy of your own log in case it does record double lines?
    Riddle Sideways: I do
    Agatha Macbeth: Hadn't thought of that Bleu ;-)
    Bleu Oleander: works for me
    Maxine Walden: good idea, Bleu
    Agatha Macbeth: Good thinking, I'll note it for future ref.
    Riddle Sideways: Eos, like what objects?
    Eos Amaterasu: (meta-comment: this last exchange is example of how guardian mtgs are useful)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: mine does by "default", chosen in the preferences menu
    Bleu Oleander: agree Eos
    Agatha Macbeth grins @ Eos
    SophiaSharon Larnia: im so silly, im loving you guys right now
    Riddle Sideways: :D
    Agatha Macbeth: We love you too SSL :)
    Zen Arado: if you type 'chat' into the search bar in Windows it finds all your recorded chats in SL
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, we do!
    Bleu Oleander: love is all around
    Eos Amaterasu: (and your kitty)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Agatha Macbeth thought it was a tiger
    Bleu Oleander: must be spring
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (it is)
    Eos Amaterasu: oh oh
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah...

    Adams Dubrovna: The guardian meetings help us bond
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (beels goes off on my comp and I stop) :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the bell*
    Bleu Oleander: how come more guardians don't come? time?
    Agatha Macbeth: k Quasimodo
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it varies, attendance wise
    Zen Arado: getting a hunch again :)
    Gaya Ethaniel hangs her head ...
    Eos Amaterasu: Good question: maybe also time zone?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but could be
    Bleu Oleander: seems a small percentage
    Agatha Macbeth: Time not convenient for many perhaps?
    Agatha Macbeth: SL issues
    SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe some are not interested in structure, it s how its perceived
    Riddle Sideways: please not change, this is my bestest time for meeting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles @ Riddle
    Zen Arado: this time usually suits me too
    Gaya Ethaniel: No need to change, weekends are generally too busy for me, no other reasons.
    Agatha Macbeth: Is this time slot the only GM?
    Zen Arado: unlless I have to go somewhere (like next week)
    Bleu Oleander: so did we come to any conclusions?

    Adams Dubrovna: We can worry about what doesn’t work or appreciate what does work about the guardian maatings
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :))
    Adams Dubrovna: meetings
    Agatha Macbeth: Guardian matings?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: votes for appreciate
    Agatha Macbeth: Eek
    SophiaSharon Larnia doesnt even see typos anymore
    Zen Arado: that sounds better Aga :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Naah
    Maxine Walden: appreciating what works may feel like a mating of sorts...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Agatha Macbeth: Well, yes...
    Maxine Walden: a coming together in appreciation
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Riddle Sideways appreciates typos the mostest
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol!
    Agatha Macbeth: Mee two
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I was curious to hear more from Bleu about bringing creativity into sessions vs structures ...
    Bleu Oleander: perhaps a topic for next week .... I need to go ....
    Bleu Oleander: c u all
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye :)
    Eos Amaterasu: also about bringing PaB into daily life (SL life, RL life)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok bye Bleu :)
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Bleu
    Riddle Sideways: c u 2
    Maxine Walden: bye, Bleu
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now Bleu
    Zen Arado: bye Bleu
    Eos Amaterasu: bye bye bleu
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bleu
    Maxine Walden: a song coming to you, Eos?
    Maxine Walden: bye bye bleu?
    Eos Amaterasu: I think I"m a gonna drop
    Agatha Macbeth: Rhapsody in Bleu
    Zen Arado: :)
    Riddle Sideways: am I Bleu
    Maxine Walden: here comes our creativity...
    Agatha Macbeth: Bleu Monday
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Zen Arado: ole Bleu eyes
    Agatha Macbeth: Bleu Moon
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I have to go back to RL ... nice to see you all again.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Gaya!
    Eos Amaterasu: bye bunny
    Zen Arado: bye Gaya
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Gaya
    Agatha Macbeth: Take care Gaya
    Maxine Walden: bye Gaya
    Agatha Macbeth: Don't eat too many carrots
    Riddle Sideways: da Bleuz aint nothin but a good AV gone bad
    Agatha Macbeth: Whoa
    SophiaSharon Larnia: omg thats awesome
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: bleu bleu windows behind the avs
    Agatha Macbeth: Love is Bleu
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe next session we do more bleu skying re creative ideas
    Agatha Macbeth: :))
    Maxine Walden: good idea, eos
    Eos Amaterasu: bring your thought balloons, color them in
    SophiaSharon Larnia: my balloon is kind of empty :)
    Zen Arado: blue?
    Riddle Sideways: ummmm, where is the thought balloon store?
    Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    Zen Arado: structured ballons
    Eos Amaterasu thinks of a PaB product line....
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thinks of popping balloons
    Eos Amaterasu: hah!
    Riddle Sideways: ah, thoughts fur sale... 5c
    Eos Amaterasu: maybe we could have a script for that for the 90 secs
    SophiaSharon Larnia: peeny for your thoughts
    SophiaSharon Larnia: penny*
    Agatha Macbeth: ??
    Zen Arado: peony?
    Zen Arado: like them
    Eos Amaterasu: even better
    Eos Amaterasu: sky peony
    Maxine Walden: prefer a peony to a penny for a thought
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes ;)
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Adams Dubrovna: Bye everyone, RL calling :)
    Maxine Walden: afraid I have to go. Will look for peonies for next time...
    Zen Arado: bye Adams
    Riddle Sideways: bye bye
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Adams!
    Agatha Macbeth: Cya Adams :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Eos
    Zen Arado: bye all
    Agatha Macbeth: And Max
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and Maxine and Eos
    Eos Amaterasu: Ditto (come home and now must wash dishes :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: bye all, was fun
    Zen Arado: yes it was :)
    Riddle Sideways: bye all
    Fael Illyar: have fun everyone :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Actually, think I need to go to too, thanks for the discussion...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Fael, and Agatha :) just you and me Yakuzza :)

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    Viewing 2 of 2 comments: view all
    Originally written on 22:21, 25 Apr 2010
    Thanks Bleu!, why the hell didn't *I* think of that? (duh)
    Posted 01:14, 28 Apr 2010
    Originally written on 19:59, 26 Apr 2010
    Eos said, "Storm designed this building to look a bit like British parliament." Actually I didn't! Any resemblance is purely coincidental and in the mind of the beholder. On the other hand, to use a British saying, "If the cap fits, wear it!" :)
    Posted 01:14, 28 Apr 2010
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