2010.04.25 13:00 - Perceptions and challenges

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    As often occurs a theme or two gets played out in the session, often unintentionally. During this session several of us, myself, Liza, perhaps others, seemed to perceive things that were disturbing: because of a viewer problem I thought I saw Arabella's head on Storm's shoulder; Liza was disturbed by some expressions from another participant.  How we metabolize or make sense of what we perceive, whether we can let go

               Yakuzza Lethecus: hey liza

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi max
    Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku and Liza
    Liza Deischer: hi Yaky, Maxine
    Maxine Walden: Storm, how nice to see you!
    Liza Deischer: hi Storm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey storm
    Storm Nordwind: Thank you Maxine! You too. :) Hi all!
    Maxine Walden: How was your retreat, Storm? Probably not an easy question
    Storm Nordwind: Very worthwhile. I learned a lot about many things, and about people, and places and myself. :)
    Maxine Walden: couldn't have been better, I imagine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Storm, Maxine, Yaku, Liza :)
    Storm Nordwind: Especially as I persuaded my wife to join me for the last 5 days!
    Liza Deischer: hi Fael
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey fael
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, how nice that must have been
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi arch
    Liza Deischer: hi Arch
    Maxine Walden: hi, Arch
    Storm Nordwind: I came back home for one day as I picked her up to join me... so strange...

     Here begins perceptions: Yaku's dress, Storm's impressions coming briefly out of retreat 

    Liza Deischer: Yaku, are you white, or is it my viewer ?
    Storm Nordwind: the impression of transparency of all the buildings...
    Maxine Walden: oh, my, Storm...how interesting
    Storm Nordwind: and of people running around for illusory gratification
    Yakuzza Lethecus: its strange
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my viewer shows me also white
    Maxine Walden: hmm yes,
    Yakuzza Lethecus: all i did was loggin in with viewer 2.0 before
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and ten
    Archmage Atlantis: Yeppers
    Yakuzza Lethecus: emerald now 2
    Archmage Atlantis: I am alwys sat a female here
    Liza Deischer: ah, you can loose clothing when you start to use the 2.0
    Maxine Walden: people and buildings transparent for Storm, Yaku white for us
    Liza Deischer: I lost my hair and a shoe
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Maxine Walden: oh, Liza?
    Archmage Atlantis: For the want of a shoe
    Maxine Walden: hmm, Arch...
    Liza Deischer: well, some loose their t-shirt
    Storm Nordwind is using the viewer "Storm v57.8"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i used 2.0 before i only used 2.01 for the last 2 logins
    Liza Deischer: not so nice when you are in the middle of a croud :-)
    Liza Deischer: okay, then I don't know
    Archmage Atlantis: Being gay, I am used to being different
    Liza Deischer: a viewer with a mind of his own
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am at rev 28.b
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Maxine Walden: hmmm
    Liza Deischer: a lot of time arch I have no idea what you are talking about
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is there still a slot open tomorrow in the meditation group liza ?
    Liza Deischer: I start next week and your on the list
    Archmage Atlantis: Y\That is a question that desirvew qn qn wwer
    Liza Deischer: and I have room left for the Monday
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good i´ll join that one thx :)
    Liza Deischer: okay
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for how long are you interested in meditation and practicing it ?
    Liza Deischer: oh, gosh, a I think over ten years
    Archmage Atlantis: YAJ
    Storm Nordwind wonders whether Yak's question was about the past or the future ;)

    And then Arch challenges us all with some cryptograms...

    Archmage Atlantis: THAT IS AN OLD QUEARION
    Liza Deischer: ?
    Liza Deischer: hi Arisia
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arisia
    Arisia Vita: Hi all
    Maxine Walden: hi, Arisia
    Storm Nordwind notices the key to decoding Arch's comments is to look at his keyboard for adjacent letters - that and to know a few English idioms!
    Liza Deischer: okay
    Liza Deischer: thansk Storm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi ara
    Liza Deischer: but I'm not English :-)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Ari, Ara :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya everyone!
    Liza Deischer: hi Ara
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Ar*
    Maxine Walden: hmm, still puzzled but 'tis OK to be so...
    Archmage Atlantis: U zVVUE SI UR UB QIESAA
    Archmage Atlantis: sO MY NIBD TI YOUR
    Fael Illyar wonders if Arch became sloppy now that people might be able to decode the mess.
    Maxine Walden: (afraid I don't have the energy or perhaps the smarts to decode...
    Maxine Walden: )
    Liza Deischer is still not able to decode it
    Storm Nordwind observes it has now gone beyond my modest decrypting abilities
    Liza Deischer is not trying anymore
    Storm Nordwind decides to learn Tibetan instead as an easier option
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Arisia Vita: perhaps Arch wishes us to put our own meaning to his words?
    Archmage Atlantis: LOOK AT MY PRFILE
    Liza Deischer: maybe so, but then he can say so

    ...and I briefly have a viewer-triggered hallucination...

    Maxine Walden: I am having this strange almost hallucination: at one angle over Storm's right shoulder is the head of Arabella. But when I change views she/her head disappears. Not sure what to make of it
    arabella Ella: i hope my head is still on my shoulders somewhere Maxine!
    Maxine Walden: Wondering if we are being visited by apparitions today, or just from certain perspectives...
    Storm Nordwind: Appreciate the Presence of Appearance as a Presentation by Linden Lab, perhaps?
    Maxine Walden: maybe so, Storm...
    Liza Deischer: :_)
    Liza Deischer: well she is still sitting next to me, with head and everything else :-)
    arabella Ella: am so glad to hear that Lisa ... thought I was going crazy
    Maxine Walden: ah, well then, must be in my viewer...sorry Ara, you not crazy, seems I am in some way
    Maxine Walden: or my viewer...
    Storm Nordwind: Maybe we can turn that into an APPALL acronym!

    Arisia reminds us of the origin of illusion

    Arisia Vita: beauty (and illusion in general) is in the eye of the beholder...
    Liza Deischer: well Yaku turned black again
    Liza Deischer: in my view(er) that is
    Maxine Walden: indeed, Arisia...yes, we are experiencing various perceptions today...
    Maxine Walden: or I am...
    Arisia Vita: the eye sees, the mind perceives, the heart knows...

    Arch offers more challenges

    Archmage Atlantis: tIS IS REAL OUTSIDE MY WINDOW
    Archmage Atlantis: a BEAAR WALKS ACROSS MY YARD
    Fael Illyar is feeling inclined to wonder why Arch takes that to be worthy of being noted in this meeting.
    Archmage Atlantis: TO BE IS TO BE
    Liza Deischer: I stop wondering
    Fael Illyar: especially all in caps, like yelling :)
    arabella Ella: why are you shouting Arch?
    arabella Ella: we can read ok
    Liza Deischer: hmmmm, strange
    arabella Ella: brb
    Storm Nordwind: Let the bear beware Arch! :) http://www.break.com/index/house-cat...acks-bear.html

    After Arch leaves Liza expresses the feeling many of us were probably having

    Liza Deischer: don't know what to make of it
    Maxine Walden: make of what, Liza?
    Liza Deischer: Arch

    And then Liza pleads for clarity, but perhaps others' agreement about the frustration in dealing with Arch, while some 'old timers' suggest dropping the frustration

    Maxine Walden: hmm, Maybe at times his experience is uniquely his
    Fael Illyar: He's having a stage again when he's desperate to say something but only manages to confuse people.
    Storm Nordwind: Most people have a natural need to be heard, if only from time to time
    Liza Deischer: well that is the problem I guess
    Liza Deischer: is somebody disturbing for good reasons
    Liza Deischer: or just disturbing
    Liza Deischer: and if he doesn't open up
    Liza Deischer: we won't know
    Storm Nordwind: And what's a 'good' reason for one may not be a 'good' reason for another. I don't believe values are absolutes
    Liza Deischer: I agree Storm
    Liza Deischer: but that makes it complicated
    Liza Deischer: because to be abel to put out personal questions, the group needs to work proparly
    Fael Illyar: it's only complicated if people aren't willing to accept what reasons are good for others, even if those are not good for thm.
    Liza Deischer: it is that what made me react
    Liza Deischer: it can be complicated if you're in a group together and it makes you uncomfartable
    Maxine Walden: Yes, it can be complex to just let something be in another's behaviour when it makes one feel uncomfortable
    Storm Nordwind shrugs - "As long as we can still talk about Play as Being practice, I'm happy!" :)
    Liza Deischer: but that is alos an inidividual perception
    Storm Nordwind lied - he is happy all the time anyway! ;)
    Maxine Walden: Storm may be modeling that playing as Being means letting go of possible disturbance as well as letting go of knowing sometimes what another is saying/meaning
    Liza Deischer: maybe so am I Storm, but not everybody is called Storm
    Maxine Walden: not sure, Liza, are you saying that it is not always easy to let things go in terms of playing as Being?
    Liza Deischer: and maybe I have my play to do
    Liza Deischer: my pointis that we are stil working on it, and we need a trustful environment to do so
    Fael Illyar: It definitely does feel disturbing when you have no idea what the other person is speaking about :) At least... if you think you should.
    Liza Deischer: I'm not a Buddha, don't expect others to be also
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i constantly ask myself in how far we define our ,,buttons" ourselves and how much accepting i should be while preserving some motivation to be active but that is usually out of grasping for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey mick
    arabella Ella: am back apologies had RL phone call
    Arisia Vita: Hi Mic
    Fael Illyar: Hi Mick :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Mick
    Liza Deischer: You try to understand him, because he is part of the group, but it drags you away from other things that are going on as well
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Mick
    Liza Deischer: an deserves attention as well
    Liza Deischer: hi Mick
    Mickorod Renard: sorry a bit late
    Mickorod Renard: hi Liza,,sorry i missed the area 51 too
    Mickorod Renard: busy weekend
    Fael Illyar: yes, he dominates your attention and you wish him to stop doing that. Even though your attention is yours to use as you will.
    Liza Deischer: that's okay Mick :-)
    Mickorod Renard: who's the dominating one?
    Fael Illyar: he left already but Arch was here.
    Storm Nordwind: Can we not make a passing attempt to understand anyone without being dragged away? Dropping the attachment we have to those feelings, we can no longer be manipulated by them
    Liza Deischer: yes Fael and there is a certain undescribed measure you use to balance a group and the paritparticipants in it
    Liza Deischer: and the aprticipation of the people in it
    Fael Illyar: I use?
    Mickorod Renard: thats an interesting point storm
    Liza Deischer: true Storm
    Liza Deischer: I don't deny that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think arch gives us the opportunity to practice mindfullness in a secure realm of distraction
    Yakuzza Lethecus: for me dropping and mindfullness is interchangebly
    Mickorod Renard: we find similar situations in our regular liofe too
    Fael Illyar: yes, he provides a chance to learn by his behauviour :)
    Liza Deischer: but it is also playing on a psychological level (and we don't get past that at this period of PaB), to show your boundaries
    Mickorod Renard: in a school I find I am in situations everyday where some students are trying to gain attention at the inappropriate time
    Liza Deischer: I can drop everything, but I know a teachter who ones said to someone: you don't have an ego to drop
    Liza Deischer: there needs to be something there inorder to do so
    Liza Deischer: and to me an answer like that is actually to easy
    Mickorod Renard: I think its like wearing a good waterproof coat in the rain
    Fael Illyar: you don't have an ego to drop but you can think you have an ego to drop.
    Mickorod Renard: you know its raining but it doesnt discomfort you from what you do
    Arisia Vita: This is fascinating but I must get ready for another meeting
    Arisia Vita: see you all soon I hope
    Mickorod Renard: bye Arisa
    Liza Deischer: that's not what I mean. Ego in terms of psychology is quite different and also very important then in terms of Buddhism or other religions
    Arisia Vita: bye...
    Fael Illyar: have fun Ari :)
    Maxine Walden: bye Arisia, thanks for coming
    Liza Deischer: bye Arisa
    arabella Ella: bye Ari
    Liza Deischer: you need the one to be able to do the other
    Fael Illyar: if the ego just drops, then it drops... if _you_ drop it... does it really drop? since there was a you (ego) to drop it.
    Liza Deischer: in other words: you need to be sane, healthy, confident to add a few things
    Mickorod Renard: thats stuffed me then
    Liza Deischer: to be able to drop the ego
    Maxine Walden: Liza, you may be speaking about something that can feel gripping, and I certainly know that state well. Mybe important to have compassion to be able to let something gripping go...not so easy to just 'drop' in that instance, in my view
    Liza Deischer: nice question Fael, and I am always in a mood to discuss that, but that is to me for the moment another level
    Mickorod Renard: cant the ego be present but in a more natural form,rather than a dictorial form?
    Fael Illyar: you mean dictatorial?
    Liza Deischer: I feel that it is probably hard to get my drift, maybe I'm not explaining it very well, so myabe I should just drop it :-)
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: he he ,,well i joined in late,,so its my fault if I am behind
    Maxine Walden: ah, nearly the end of the hour...I have to go in a moment
    Maxine Walden: seems more to talk about but then in these sessions there always is...nice to see everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care max
    Storm Nordwind: Bye Maxine. Lovely to see you!
    Liza Deischer: bye Max
    Mickorod Renard: bye max
    Maxine Walden: See you all soon, I hope!
    arabella Ella: bye Maxine!
    Fael Illyar: well, time for me to pop out too. Have fun everyone :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Fael
    arabella Ella: nite Fael
    Mickorod Renard: bye fael
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye feal
    Storm Nordwind slips away quietly back to his lhakhang
    Yakuzza Lethecus: night storm
    Liza Deischer: bye Storm
    Mickorod Renard: bye storm
    arabella Ella: nite Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Night all

    And after several have left searching for missing pets and pub quizzes are mentioned, more challenges, perhaps

    Mickorod Renard: it was a crazy day today,hunting for a missing pet rabbit
    Mickorod Renard: also, I have just been to a pub quiz,the questions were so hard its doubtful I got any right answers
    Liza Deischer: pub quizes, really something from the UK :-)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,usually good fun,,but tonite was frustrating
    arabella Ella: pub quizzes are always frustrating i find
    arabella Ella: they ask such stupid questions ... not common sense ones
    Liza Deischer: I guess that is the fun :-)
    Mickorod Renard: these were very dificult,,I cant really remember the questions
    Liza Deischer: but I need to say, I've never been in one
    Liza Deischer: we don't do pub quizes here
    Mickorod Renard: what country is timbuctu in?
    Mickorod Renard: thats one I know
    Liza Deischer: nice question, no idea
    Mickorod Renard: Mali
    arabella Ella: i have no clue
    arabella Ella: he he
    arabella Ella: did you text anyone for the answers?
    arabella Ella: i've seen ppl doing that at pub quizzes
    Mickorod Renard: no,,but on a smoke break I did google on my phone for an answer
    Mickorod Renard: maybe u had best edit that
    Liza Deischer: :-) I guess some are pretty fanatic about it
    arabella Ella: ah yes now we have inrternet on phones too ... easy way to find answers
    Liza Deischer: yes, but not so easy to find an answer in the right time
    Mickorod Renard: I could have cheated,,but it wouldnt give any satisfaction
    Liza Deischer: a the true gamer
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    arabella Ella: i have seen people cheating at similar quizzes ... people you would never believe would cheat
    arabella Ella: and the same people really taking it badly if the answer they found on google was considered incorrect
    Liza Deischer: I guess a part of the real 'person' shows itself when under pressure of such an important event :-)
    Mickorod Renard: I dont mind cheating if it is a sign of competitiveness
    Mickorod Renard: like in life or death situations
    Mickorod Renard: a quiz is as much competition on oneself as against others
    Liza Deischer: nite Ara
    Mickorod Renard: bye Ara
    arabella Ella whispers ... good nite Liza, good nite Mick
    Liza Deischer: I need to go too
    Mickorod Renard: I must go home now too
    Mickorod Renard: bye Liza
    Liza Deischer: take your bike and go home
    Mickorod Renard: sleep well
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Liza Deischer: sleep well Mick :-)
    Mickorod Renard: c u tommorow perhaps
    Liza Deischer: eh...yes I think so, or Darren
    Mickorod Renard: he he
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    Originally written on 10:02, 26 Apr 2010
    After thinking it through, I wondered how much opportunities there were to drop: the attachement to the comments of Arch, or the fact that I challenged him with all the results that came out of it? What was left when I got to bed, was some concern about Arch. It is hard to say for me, if I did the right thing or not. That question being even more 'challenging' in SL then in RL.
    Posted 01:14, 28 Apr 2010
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