Page last modified 20:38, 5 May 2010 by wol

*Wol Euler was guardian for this long and wide-ranging session.*

Woolcinder Oxidor: hello Wol

Wol Euler: hello wool

Wol Euler: welcome back :)

Woolcinder Oxidor: very crowded in here

Wol Euler: eh, it varies.

Wol Euler: the 1am sessions have fewer participants, it's too early for the Americans

Woolcinder Oxidor: so its only the american to whom the play interests

Wol Euler: no, because we are both here.

Wol Euler: but Americans are about half of all SL residents.

Woolcinder Oxidor: then that must be the case

Woolcinder Oxidor: are we being recorded

Wol Euler: and this is working time for most Europeans

Wol Euler: yes, we are.

Wol Euler: I did ask you yesterday

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes i consented :)

Wol Euler smiles.

Woolcinder Oxidor: its just that i need to be more watcful about my spellings

Woolcinder Oxidor: i think i spelled that wrong

Wol Euler laughs. WHat a concept.

Wol Euler: SL is a grammar-and-spelling tolerant zone.

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes but i would hate to go down in the coffers of history as one who payed no heed to it

Wol Euler: well, if that is your wish then feel free to consider and edit yourself. We don'T require it

Wol Euler: there's a convention that we have adopted that seems widely used in SL: if I see myself making a misteak, I correct in the next line with a *

Wol Euler: *mistake

Wol Euler: the person who posts the session log will usually apply the corrections, so the log is more or less correct

Wol Euler: but I don't bother fixing spelling otherwise

--BELL--

Woolcinder Oxidor: the silence was deafening

Wol Euler: really? I always find it very pleasant, I enjoy the birdsong

Woolcinder Oxidor: you begin to realize very soon that its looping...and thus contrived

Wol Euler: well :)

Woolcinder Oxidor: so what is it that we do here

Wol Euler: I can't say that it worries me. RL birds are pretty repetitive too

Wol Euler: sorry, just a mo, a bit of RL intruding

Wol Euler: back, soprry about that

Woolcinder Oxidor: no problems

Wol Euler: what we do here? Mostly this, sit around and talk

Wol Euler: mostly the talk is about meditation or thoughts that arise while meditating

Wol Euler: sometimes we do meditate here, practical exercises

Wol Euler: and sometimes we just chat among friends.

Wol Euler: Friday 1pm is traditionally a silly session

Wol Euler: hello darren

Darren Islar: hi Wol, Wool

Woolcinder Oxidor: humm and the being...does it refer to the act of being.....like Heideggers Dasein....or is it the being itself

Woolcinder Oxidor: hello Darren

Wol Euler: Being, wiht a capital B, is the everything-alltogetherness of everything

Wol Euler: to put it in a nutshell

Wol Euler: though the nutshell itself is of course a part of Being ...

Wol Euler: the notecard I gave you last time had a link to our website, there's a lot of good info there, background and explanations

Wol Euler: http://playasbeing.wik.is/

Darren Islar: (thisisn't the shower anymore, is it?)

Wol Euler: I turned it down :)

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes i went through some of it

Darren Islar: oh, that's okay

Wol Euler: do you meditate, Wool?

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes at times

Wol Euler: what's your practice?

Woolcinder Oxidor: you mean if i have a perticula framework that i follow

Woolcinder Oxidor: like reiki

Wol Euler: mmhmm

Woolcinder Oxidor: no i think there isnt very formal about the way i do it

Woolcinder Oxidor: so i cant say what i practise

Wol Euler nods.

Woolcinder Oxidor: in such distictive terms

Wol Euler: several of us would say the same, I think. Including myself

Wol Euler: I see it principally as a tool, for reducing stress and unhappiness

Darren Islar is not going into that :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: some would also see it as a tool to unite with the Being

Wol Euler: sure

Wol Euler: and/or to achieve enlightenment

Woolcinder Oxidor: or to understand it better

--BELL--

Woolcinder Oxidor: why is the silence necessary

Wol Euler: a pause for refreshment, mental or otherwise

Woolcinder Oxidor: humm or to consider where we went wrong

Wol Euler: yes, htat too. It helps to calm down heated discussions

Wol Euler: there have been far fewer tantrums here since we started the pauses

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes you get humbling when you consider that time is running out

Darren Islar: it is a way of getting focus back, instead of letting your head get red by all the thinking and discussing you do

Wol Euler nods.

Darren Islar: a way of getting back into your body, instead of looking outside

Wol Euler: it developed out of our core practice, our "poster child" if you will, which is a nine second meditation

Wol Euler: every quarter hour, take nine seconds to drop what you are doing and take a moment of mindfulness

Wol Euler: somebody suggested making that 10x here, so ninety seconds' pause

Darren Islar is wodering why 9 and not 10?

Wol Euler smiles. Perhaps that says something about Pema and Stim's minds?

Woolcinder Oxidor: i was wondering why not 60 rather than 90 :)

Wol Euler: well, given "9", 90 is more logical as the next step up

Wol Euler: nine seconds is 1% of a quarter hour, so the meditation is a kind of time tax

Wol Euler: but ten seconds is not significantly more than 1% of a quarter hour.

Darren Islar: but then it is 10 times, why not nine?

Wol Euler: I suspect that there is some notion of aesthetic beauty in numbers underlying it :)

Darren Islar: silly questions!

Wol Euler: oh, why not 81 seconds?

Wol Euler: ha, a good question.

Woolcinder Oxidor: that would have made it 81 thats a silly number too

Darren Islar: :_)

Darren Islar: it doesn't matter at the moment :-), it just popped up in my mind

Darren Islar: that is still pretty sleepy and therefor open to silly things

Wol Euler smiles.

Woolcinder Oxidor: so we never have anything perticular to brood about before hand

Woolcinder Oxidor: and let the discussions take their course?

Wol Euler: it depends, sometimes there are theme sessions, where two people will discuss a particular topic. These are announced in advance, and people do seem to do some preparatory thinking about them

Wol Euler: judging by the questions that arise

Wol Euler: Sophia talking about the role of prayer in Islam, for example

Wol Euler: or Geo and Pema talking about the significance of Love in Christianity

Woolcinder Oxidor: humm that would be interesting

Wol Euler: it's in the wiki, and if the search worked properly would be good reading :/

Wol Euler: "free is worth what you pay for it", as they say.

Darren Islar: bur most sessions are open to question or sharing experiences

Woolcinder Oxidor: i guess in christianity one starts by loving then to knowing and finally to gnosis

Darren Islar: *questions

Darren Islar: like today

Woolcinder Oxidor: in islam it happens the other way around

--BELL--

Darren Islar: I guess it depends on the definition of 'knowing'

Wol Euler: heh

Wol Euler: as does much else ...

Woolcinder Oxidor: in islam you start by knowing and then to love finally moving on to gnosis

Darren Islar: knwoing what?

Woolcinder Oxidor: anything....thats not the point here

Woolcinder Oxidor: but the element presence takes priority in on

Woolcinder Oxidor: one

Darren Islar: because to me knowing includes love

Woolcinder Oxidor: the element truth takes priority in the other

Woolcinder Oxidor: its an interplay between truth and presence

Woolcinder Oxidor: like the taoist yin yang

Woolcinder Oxidor: ofcourse they are never mutually exclusive...its just a matter of priority

Darren Islar: probably all true

Woolcinder Oxidor: there are some buddhists sect who exclude one for the other ..i cant seem to remember their names

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes a union is always more exclusive...either extremes could lead one astray

Woolcinder Oxidor: conducive sorry

Wol Euler: and more life-like :)

Wol Euler: life is seldom so purely either/or as our theories are

Wol Euler: it's usually both/and

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes but balance is the most difficult thing to achieve usually

Woolcinder Oxidor: this is what presently ails the world

Wol Euler nods.

Darren Islar: to me what ails the world is the lack of both, loving and knowing

Woolcinder Oxidor: i recall a work "islam and the perennial philosophy" by Frithjof Schuon" that sheds some light on it

Wol Euler makes a note

Woolcinder Oxidor: he was a convert so he can be considered to know the best of both worlds

Woolcinder Oxidor: sometimes youd wish the fifteen minute bel sounded more often

Woolcinder Oxidor: its one of those times

Darren Islar: ?

Wol Euler smiles

Wol Euler: so just take a pause

Wol Euler: it often happens that we sit silently for a while

Darren Islar: knwoing can be two things

Darren Islar: facts and data, knwoing the drill

Darren Islar: or knowing in a religious way

Woolcinder Oxidor: should there be a difference

Darren Islar: both a quite different from each other

Darren Islar: the first one is keeping you alive

Darren Islar: the other one is making you connect

--BELL--

Darren Islar: but a lot of religions have changed the two different ways of knowing and now facts have become important in a lot of religions

Darren Islar: if you take the symbol of a cross

Woolcinder Oxidor: you are still referring to the same thing Darren...truth has taken priority over presence

Darren Islar: you could say that knwoing in a religious way is the verical line

Darren Islar: truth has taken priority over presence ?

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes the facts you speak of...are infact the religious truth

Darren Islar: ?

Woolcinder Oxidor: how many angels...how many books etc

Wol Euler: or you could lower your eye level to the tabletop where the piece of paper on which you drew those axes is laying

Woolcinder Oxidor: do this and you get that...

Wol Euler: and see that they are both contiguous :)

Darren Islar: they are both real yes

Darren Islar: and they should be in balance with each other

Darren Islar: also true

Woolcinder Oxidor: ofcourse what is true must finally be present and what is present must also be the truth

Darren Islar: my truth is different Wool, that's is probably why it is important to define it

Darren Islar: because in your sentence Ishould swap truth and presence

Woolcinder Oxidor: truth has less love in it....its a knowledge thats blinding

Woolcinder Oxidor: much like modern science

Darren Islar: well that is where we are mistaken each other

Darren Islar: to me truth is quite different

Wol Euler: I wonder about "what is present must also be the truth". Prejudice and hate and ignorance are very much present...

Wol Euler: (I find your definition too loose :)

Darren Islar: what is present is a truth yes

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes and they are arent they...and so without the truth they take you nowhere......thats too much presence without any truth

Darren Islar: it's your working tool

Darren Islar: In Buddhism they speak of two different kinds of truth

Darren Islar: the relative truth and the absolute truth

Wol Euler nods.

Darren Islar: the relative one is the one we can touch, including our thoughts and feelings

Darren Islar: the absolute truth is quite different

Woolcinder Oxidor: so isnt the relative truth more like presence

Darren Islar: the workingtool for that is your buddhamind

Darren Islar: yes

Darren Islar: but most religious peole nowadays consider the relative truth as the only truth

Darren Islar: and then knowledge is about facts

Darren Islar: as you way Wool, you do this, and you get that

Woolcinder Oxidor: that is a fault now...or i would consider it to be

Darren Islar: what do you mean ?

--BELL--

Woolcinder Oxidor: considering relative truth as the only truth

Darren Islar: ah yes

Woolcinder Oxidor: much the same can be said of scientific truths now

Darren Islar: yes

Woolcinder Oxidor: i dont believe in a theory of relativity

Woolcinder Oxidor: einstein never gave the theory of relativity

Wol Euler: there is a difference. Scientific truth is always temporary, it is understood that it depends on validation and might be invalidated at any point

Darren Islar: where do you belief in

Woolcinder Oxidor: see what he said was that the speed of light is absolute

Wol Euler: religious truth presumes itself to *be* validated already and forever, and considers things that others might see as invalidating it to be false or irrelevant

Darren Islar: true Wol

Darren Islar: but I'm afraid scientist know that, the good ones

Wol Euler: phone

Darren Islar: but a lot of people take it as 'prooven'

Darren Islar: brb, need coffee to clear the mind a bit

Darren Islar: :_)

Woolcinder Oxidor: i wouldnt agree..if there is a "Fact" that invalidates religion that the religion must be abolished rather then the fact taken as irrelevent

Woolcinder Oxidor: or else you are upholding presence to the element truth

Darren Islar: true

Darren Islar: but that is not exactly what I meant

Darren Islar: wouldn't it be interesting if scientist really would ask themselves why they need to work with hypotheses, rather then finding some real truth

Darren Islar: oh for the record WOL: BUDDHAMIND should be BODHIMIND

Darren Islar: what a cup of coffee can do :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: but they do aim to find real truth.....they have to begin somewhere

Darren Islar: well I agree with Wol here, good scientists don't, they know they don't work with truth

--BELL--

Darren Islar: but at the same time they get stuck in there way of working withoug wondering why it is there is no truth

Darren Islar: but to be honest Wool, I'm not much of somebody who like to argue

Darren Islar: I like to look inside and try to find out how I perceive the world

Darren Islar: including myself

Woolcinder Oxidor: were we really arguing here :)

Darren Islar: to me, yes

Woolcinder Oxidor: more like exchanging notes

Darren Islar: trying to understand things with our heads :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: welcome back Wol

Wol Euler: Sorry about that, I got logged out while on the phone

Darren Islar: It could be considered that way, true

Darren Islar: wb Wol

Darren Islar: np

Wol Euler: I have to get to work now, but please continue. I've claimed the session and will post the log.

Darren Islar: okay

Wol Euler: bfn

Darren Islar: see you Wol

Darren Islar: bfn

Woolcinder Oxidor: some scientific discoveries have been inspired just in preserving the element of beauty

Woolcinder Oxidor: like Diracs discovery of the anti particle

Woolcinder Oxidor: he actually theorized it well before it was discovered

Darren Islar: well you know, you should meet my other avatar, she likes to argue

Woolcinder Oxidor: a she :)

Darren Islar: and to get into beautiful science facts

Darren Islar: ye she :-)

Darren Islar: but I'm not so good at that

Darren Islar: strangely enough, because you would say it is the same person :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes its very intriguing

Darren Islar: I think you met her already, Liza

Woolcinder Oxidor: no i dont remember thT

Woolcinder Oxidor: this is my first time here

Darren Islar: I belief she was there when you first came in

Woolcinder Oxidor: lol what did i just say

Darren Islar: but it doesn't matter

Woolcinder Oxidor: i was considering you as two people

Darren Islar: oh, there was a wool coming in yesterday or so

Darren Islar: another wool ?

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes that was me :)

Woolcinder Oxidor: but that was for a few minutes only

Darren Islar: okay, thought I was getting crazy :-)

Darren Islar: well, as avatars we are much like two persons

Darren Islar: she is more male then I am :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: and you are more female that her?

Darren Islar: in some perspectives yes

Darren Islar: strange isn't it

Woolcinder Oxidor: but couldnt you bring about these alternating personalities in the same av

Darren Islar: couldn't have thought that it would work that way

Darren Islar: yes, it should be you should say

Darren Islar: but the interesting part is that with having different avatars

Darren Islar: you isolate parts of yourself more

Darren Islar: and can have a closer look at that

Woolcinder Oxidor: humm yes i am getting the idea

Darren Islar: but in the end they do influence each other

Woolcinder Oxidor: and does she dates men too

Darren Islar: no I'm the sexual one

Darren Islar: :-)

Darren Islar: and I date women

Woolcinder Oxidor: then its more understandable

Darren Islar: how's that

Woolcinder Oxidor: it would have been to crazy to think otherwise

Woolcinder Oxidor: we all have a woman in us

--BELL--

Darren Islar: hmm, maybe I need to clearify here something

Darren Islar: in rl, I'm a woman

Darren Islar: but this is the only place where both Liza and Darren appear

Woolcinder Oxidor: just when i thought i was beginning to understand you spoiled everything :)

Darren Islar: hahahah

Darren Islar: sorry about that

Woolcinder Oxidor: i have met several female avs who were men in rl

Darren Islar: I know it happens more the other way around

Woolcinder Oxidor: do you tell this to the women you date

Darren Islar: heh, she is actually a he

Woolcinder Oxidor: i cant even think how it should work

Darren Islar: :-))))

Darren Islar: I understand

Woolcinder Oxidor: the simple physics is way too complicated to fathom

Darren Islar: but to both of us it is exploring sexuality in a different way

Woolcinder Oxidor: how did you even met her

Darren Islar: oh, she is part of the gang

Darren Islar: of the gang I am in as Liza

Darren Islar: we could get along with each other very well

Darren Islar: then she explained who she was

Darren Islar: then the male-avatars came in

Darren Islar: and after some experimenting Darren and her woman-part found each other own sexuality

Darren Islar: while 'she' and Liza share more the humor and the chatting

Woolcinder Oxidor: so it wasnt very pre fabricated

Darren Islar: no, it wasn't

Darren Islar: it wasn't at all

Darren Islar: it just happened

Woolcinder Oxidor: reminds me of a story now

Woolcinder Oxidor: a time travel story

Woolcinder Oxidor: "all you zombies"

Darren Islar: doesn't sound like a happy story :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: a girl is raised in an orphanage

Woolcinder Oxidor: she meets a guy falls in love and becomes pregnant

Woolcinder Oxidor: on the day of her delivery the guy kidnaps the baby and vanishes

Woolcinder Oxidor: the doctors find she also has a male reproductive system

Woolcinder Oxidor: so they operate her and he becomes a man

Woolcinder Oxidor: she becomes a man

Darren Islar: :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: that guy on the other hand who kidnapped the baby...travels in time and puts the baby..a girl...in an orphanage

Woolcinder Oxidor: the girl..who went surgery...travels back in time as a guy

Woolcinder Oxidor: there he/she meets a girl who was raised in an orphanage

Darren Islar: heheh

Woolcinder Oxidor: they fall in love and the girl becomes pregnant

Woolcinder Oxidor: but how are you like in rl

Darren Islar: huh?

Woolcinder Oxidor: http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html

Woolcinder Oxidor: heres the complete text

Darren Islar: I guess you put liza and darren togehter and you get a pretty overall picture :-)

Darren Islar: thanks

Darren Islar: I will read it, because I wonder why he kidnappes the baby :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: oh theres no explanation to that i think

Darren Islar: just needed for the story

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes ...i guess

--BELL--

Woolcinder Oxidor: there also a bartender in it which i missed

Darren Islar: okay :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: but i have never read the story from the social aspect of it

Woolcinder Oxidor: i was merely interested in the science

Woolcinder Oxidor: but you have given me an all new perspective

Darren Islar: ah, I understand

Darren Islar: I would read it more probably from the social aspect

Darren Islar: I see it is twelve here

Darren Islar: I need to go

Woolcinder Oxidor: yes i must be going too

Darren Islar: nice meeting you :-)

Woolcinder Oxidor: same here :)

Woolcinder Oxidor: have a nice day

Darren Islar: hope to see you more often here :-)

Darren Islar: same to you

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