2010.04.30 01:00 - Why not 81 seconds?

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this long and wide-ranging session.



    Woolcinder Oxidor: hello Wol

    Wol Euler: hello wool

    Wol Euler: welcome back :)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: very crowded in here

    Wol Euler: eh, it varies.

    Wol Euler: the 1am sessions have fewer participants, it's too early for the Americans

    Woolcinder Oxidor: so its only the american to whom the play interests

    Wol Euler: no, because we are both here.

    Wol Euler: but Americans are about half of all SL residents.

    Woolcinder Oxidor: then that must be the case

    Woolcinder Oxidor: are we being recorded

    Wol Euler: and this is working time for most Europeans

    Wol Euler: yes, we are.

    Wol Euler: I did ask you yesterday

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes i consented :)

    Wol Euler smiles.

    Woolcinder Oxidor: its just that i need to be more watcful about my spellings

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i think i spelled that wrong

    Wol Euler laughs. WHat a concept.

    Wol Euler: SL is a grammar-and-spelling tolerant zone.

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes but i would hate to go down in the coffers of history as one who payed no heed to it

    Wol Euler: well, if that is your wish then feel free to consider and edit yourself. We don'T require it

    Wol Euler: there's a convention that we have adopted that seems widely used in SL: if I see myself making a misteak, I correct in the next line with a *

    Wol Euler: *mistake

    Wol Euler: the person who posts the session log will usually apply the corrections, so the log is more or less correct

    Wol Euler: but I don't bother fixing spelling otherwise


    Woolcinder Oxidor: the silence was deafening

    Wol Euler: really? I always find it very pleasant, I enjoy the birdsong

    Woolcinder Oxidor: you begin to realize very soon that its looping...and thus contrived

    Wol Euler: well :)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: so what is it that we do here

    Wol Euler: I can't say that it worries me. RL birds are pretty repetitive too

    Wol Euler: sorry, just a mo, a bit of RL intruding

    Wol Euler: back, soprry about that

    Woolcinder Oxidor: no problems

    Wol Euler: what we do here? Mostly this, sit around and talk

    Wol Euler: mostly the talk is about meditation or thoughts that arise while meditating

    Wol Euler: sometimes we do meditate here, practical exercises

    Wol Euler: and sometimes we just chat among friends.

    Wol Euler: Friday 1pm is traditionally a silly session

    Wol Euler: hello darren

    Darren Islar: hi Wol, Wool

    Woolcinder Oxidor: humm and the being...does it refer to the act of being.....like Heideggers Dasein....or is it the being itself

    Woolcinder Oxidor: hello Darren

    Wol Euler: Being, wiht a capital B, is the everything-alltogetherness of everything

    Wol Euler: to put it in a nutshell

    Wol Euler: though the nutshell itself is of course a part of Being ...

    Wol Euler: the notecard I gave you last time had a link to our website, there's a lot of good info there, background and explanations

    Wol Euler: http://playasbeing.wik.is/

    Darren Islar: (thisisn't the shower anymore, is it?)

    Wol Euler: I turned it down :)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes i went through some of it

    Darren Islar: oh, that's okay

    Wol Euler: do you meditate, Wool?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes at times

    Wol Euler: what's your practice?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: you mean if i have a perticula framework that i follow

    Woolcinder Oxidor: like reiki

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Woolcinder Oxidor: no i think there isnt very formal about the way i do it

    Woolcinder Oxidor: so i cant say what i practise

    Wol Euler nods.

    Woolcinder Oxidor: in such distictive terms

    Wol Euler: several of us would say the same, I think. Including myself

    Wol Euler: I see it principally as a tool, for reducing stress and unhappiness

    Darren Islar is not going into that :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: some would also see it as a tool to unite with the Being

    Wol Euler: sure

    Wol Euler: and/or to achieve enlightenment

    Woolcinder Oxidor: or to understand it better


    Woolcinder Oxidor: why is the silence necessary

    Wol Euler: a pause for refreshment, mental or otherwise

    Woolcinder Oxidor: humm or to consider where we went wrong

    Wol Euler: yes, htat too. It helps to calm down heated discussions

    Wol Euler: there have been far fewer tantrums here since we started the pauses

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes you get humbling when you consider that time is running out

    Darren Islar: it is a way of getting focus back, instead of letting your head get red by all the thinking and discussing you do

    Wol Euler nods.

    Darren Islar: a way of getting back into your body, instead of looking outside

    Wol Euler: it developed out of our core practice, our "poster child" if you will, which is a nine second meditation

    Wol Euler: every quarter hour, take nine seconds to drop what you are doing and take a moment of mindfulness

    Wol Euler: somebody suggested making that 10x here, so ninety seconds' pause

    Darren Islar is wodering why 9 and not 10?

    Wol Euler smiles. Perhaps that says something about Pema and Stim's minds?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i was wondering why not 60 rather than 90 :)

    Wol Euler: well, given "9", 90 is more logical as the next step up

    Wol Euler: nine seconds is 1% of a quarter hour, so the meditation is a kind of time tax

    Wol Euler: but ten seconds is not significantly more than 1% of a quarter hour.

    Darren Islar: but then it is 10 times, why not nine?

    Wol Euler: I suspect that there is some notion of aesthetic beauty in numbers underlying it :)

    Darren Islar: silly questions!

    Wol Euler: oh, why not 81 seconds?

    Wol Euler: ha, a good question.

    Woolcinder Oxidor: that would have made it 81 thats a silly number too

    Darren Islar: :_)

    Darren Islar: it doesn't matter at the moment :-), it just popped up in my mind

    Darren Islar: that is still pretty sleepy and therefor open to silly things

    Wol Euler smiles.

    Woolcinder Oxidor: so we never have anything perticular to brood about before hand

    Woolcinder Oxidor: and let the discussions take their course?

    Wol Euler: it depends, sometimes there are theme sessions, where two people will discuss a particular topic. These are announced in advance, and people do seem to do some preparatory thinking about them

    Wol Euler: judging by the questions that arise

    Wol Euler: Sophia talking about the role of prayer in Islam, for example

    Wol Euler: or Geo and Pema talking about the significance of Love in Christianity

    Woolcinder Oxidor: humm that would be interesting

    Wol Euler: it's in the wiki, and if the search worked properly would be good reading :/

    Wol Euler: "free is worth what you pay for it", as they say.

    Darren Islar: bur most sessions are open to question or sharing experiences

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i guess in christianity one starts by loving then to knowing and finally to gnosis

    Darren Islar: *questions

    Darren Islar: like today

    Woolcinder Oxidor: in islam it happens the other way around


    Darren Islar: I guess it depends on the definition of 'knowing'

    Wol Euler: heh

    Wol Euler: as does much else ...

    Woolcinder Oxidor: in islam you start by knowing and then to love finally moving on to gnosis

    Darren Islar: knwoing what?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: anything....thats not the point here

    Woolcinder Oxidor: but the element presence takes priority in on

    Woolcinder Oxidor: one

    Darren Islar: because to me knowing includes love

    Woolcinder Oxidor: the element truth takes priority in the other

    Woolcinder Oxidor: its an interplay between truth and presence

    Woolcinder Oxidor: like the taoist yin yang

    Woolcinder Oxidor: ofcourse they are never mutually exclusive...its just a matter of priority

    Darren Islar: probably all true

    Woolcinder Oxidor: there are some buddhists sect who exclude one for the other ..i cant seem to remember their names

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes a union is always more exclusive...either extremes could lead one astray

    Woolcinder Oxidor: conducive sorry

    Wol Euler: and more life-like :)

    Wol Euler: life is seldom so purely either/or as our theories are

    Wol Euler: it's usually both/and

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes but balance is the most difficult thing to achieve usually

    Woolcinder Oxidor: this is what presently ails the world

    Wol Euler nods.

    Darren Islar: to me what ails the world is the lack of both, loving and knowing

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i recall a work "islam and the perennial philosophy" by Frithjof Schuon" that sheds some light on it

    Wol Euler makes a note

    Woolcinder Oxidor: he was a convert so he can be considered to know the best of both worlds

    Woolcinder Oxidor: sometimes youd wish the fifteen minute bel sounded more often

    Woolcinder Oxidor: its one of those times

    Darren Islar: ?

    Wol Euler smiles

    Wol Euler: so just take a pause

    Wol Euler: it often happens that we sit silently for a while

    Darren Islar: knwoing can be two things

    Darren Islar: facts and data, knwoing the drill

    Darren Islar: or knowing in a religious way

    Woolcinder Oxidor: should there be a difference

    Darren Islar: both a quite different from each other

    Darren Islar: the first one is keeping you alive

    Darren Islar: the other one is making you connect


    Darren Islar: but a lot of religions have changed the two different ways of knowing and now facts have become important in a lot of religions

    Darren Islar: if you take the symbol of a cross

    Woolcinder Oxidor: you are still referring to the same thing Darren...truth has taken priority over presence

    Darren Islar: you could say that knwoing in a religious way is the verical line

    Darren Islar: truth has taken priority over presence ?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes the facts you speak of...are infact the religious truth

    Darren Islar: ?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: how many angels...how many books etc

    Wol Euler: or you could lower your eye level to the tabletop where the piece of paper on which you drew those axes is laying

    Woolcinder Oxidor: do this and you get that...

    Wol Euler: and see that they are both contiguous :)

    Darren Islar: they are both real yes

    Darren Islar: and they should be in balance with each other

    Darren Islar: also true

    Woolcinder Oxidor: ofcourse what is true must finally be present and what is present must also be the truth

    Darren Islar: my truth is different Wool, that's is probably why it is important to define it

    Darren Islar: because in your sentence Ishould swap truth and presence

    Woolcinder Oxidor: truth has less love in it....its a knowledge thats blinding

    Woolcinder Oxidor: much like modern science

    Darren Islar: well that is where we are mistaken each other

    Darren Islar: to me truth is quite different

    Wol Euler: I wonder about "what is present must also be the truth". Prejudice and hate and ignorance are very much present...

    Wol Euler: (I find your definition too loose :)

    Darren Islar: what is present is a truth yes

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes and they are arent they...and so without the truth they take you nowhere......thats too much presence without any truth

    Darren Islar: it's your working tool

    Darren Islar: In Buddhism they speak of two different kinds of truth

    Darren Islar: the relative truth and the absolute truth

    Wol Euler nods.

    Darren Islar: the relative one is the one we can touch, including our thoughts and feelings

    Darren Islar: the absolute truth is quite different

    Woolcinder Oxidor: so isnt the relative truth more like presence

    Darren Islar: the workingtool for that is your buddhamind

    Darren Islar: yes

    Darren Islar: but most religious peole nowadays consider the relative truth as the only truth

    Darren Islar: and then knowledge is about facts

    Darren Islar: as you way Wool, you do this, and you get that

    Woolcinder Oxidor: that is a fault now...or i would consider it to be

    Darren Islar: what do you mean ?


    Woolcinder Oxidor: considering relative truth as the only truth

    Darren Islar: ah yes

    Woolcinder Oxidor: much the same can be said of scientific truths now

    Darren Islar: yes

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i dont believe in a theory of relativity

    Woolcinder Oxidor: einstein never gave the theory of relativity

    Wol Euler: there is a difference. Scientific truth is always temporary, it is understood that it depends on validation and might be invalidated at any point

    Darren Islar: where do you belief in

    Woolcinder Oxidor: see what he said was that the speed of light is absolute

    Wol Euler: religious truth presumes itself to *be* validated already and forever, and considers things that others might see as invalidating it to be false or irrelevant

    Darren Islar: true Wol

    Darren Islar: but I'm afraid scientist know that, the good ones

    Wol Euler: phone

    Darren Islar: but a lot of people take it as 'prooven'

    Darren Islar: brb, need coffee to clear the mind a bit

    Darren Islar: :_)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i wouldnt agree..if there is a "Fact" that invalidates religion that the religion must be abolished rather then the fact taken as irrelevent

    Woolcinder Oxidor: or else you are upholding presence to the element truth

    Darren Islar: true

    Darren Islar: but that is not exactly what I meant

    Darren Islar: wouldn't it be interesting if scientist really would ask themselves why they need to work with hypotheses, rather then finding some real truth

    Darren Islar: oh for the record WOL: BUDDHAMIND should be BODHIMIND

    Darren Islar: what a cup of coffee can do :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: but they do aim to find real truth.....they have to begin somewhere

    Darren Islar: well I agree with Wol here, good scientists don't, they know they don't work with truth


    Darren Islar: but at the same time they get stuck in there way of working withoug wondering why it is there is no truth

    Darren Islar: but to be honest Wool, I'm not much of somebody who like to argue

    Darren Islar: I like to look inside and try to find out how I perceive the world

    Darren Islar: including myself

    Woolcinder Oxidor: were we really arguing here :)

    Darren Islar: to me, yes

    Woolcinder Oxidor: more like exchanging notes

    Darren Islar: trying to understand things with our heads :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: welcome back Wol

    Wol Euler: Sorry about that, I got logged out while on the phone

    Darren Islar: It could be considered that way, true

    Darren Islar: wb Wol

    Darren Islar: np

    Wol Euler: I have to get to work now, but please continue. I've claimed the session and will post the log.

    Darren Islar: okay

    Wol Euler: bfn

    Darren Islar: see you Wol

    Darren Islar: bfn

    Woolcinder Oxidor: some scientific discoveries have been inspired just in preserving the element of beauty

    Woolcinder Oxidor: like Diracs discovery of the anti particle

    Woolcinder Oxidor: he actually theorized it well before it was discovered

    Darren Islar: well you know, you should meet my other avatar, she likes to argue

    Woolcinder Oxidor: a she :)

    Darren Islar: and to get into beautiful science facts

    Darren Islar: ye she :-)

    Darren Islar: but I'm not so good at that

    Darren Islar: strangely enough, because you would say it is the same person :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes its very intriguing

    Darren Islar: I think you met her already, Liza

    Woolcinder Oxidor: no i dont remember thT

    Woolcinder Oxidor: this is my first time here

    Darren Islar: I belief she was there when you first came in

    Woolcinder Oxidor: lol what did i just say

    Darren Islar: but it doesn't matter

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i was considering you as two people

    Darren Islar: oh, there was a wool coming in yesterday or so

    Darren Islar: another wool ?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes that was me :)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: but that was for a few minutes only

    Darren Islar: okay, thought I was getting crazy :-)

    Darren Islar: well, as avatars we are much like two persons

    Darren Islar: she is more male then I am :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: and you are more female that her?

    Darren Islar: in some perspectives yes

    Darren Islar: strange isn't it

    Woolcinder Oxidor: but couldnt you bring about these alternating personalities in the same av

    Darren Islar: couldn't have thought that it would work that way

    Darren Islar: yes, it should be you should say

    Darren Islar: but the interesting part is that with having different avatars

    Darren Islar: you isolate parts of yourself more

    Darren Islar: and can have a closer look at that

    Woolcinder Oxidor: humm yes i am getting the idea

    Darren Islar: but in the end they do influence each other

    Woolcinder Oxidor: and does she dates men too

    Darren Islar: no I'm the sexual one

    Darren Islar: :-)

    Darren Islar: and I date women

    Woolcinder Oxidor: then its more understandable

    Darren Islar: how's that

    Woolcinder Oxidor: it would have been to crazy to think otherwise

    Woolcinder Oxidor: we all have a woman in us


    Darren Islar: hmm, maybe I need to clearify here something

    Darren Islar: in rl, I'm a woman

    Darren Islar: but this is the only place where both Liza and Darren appear

    Woolcinder Oxidor: just when i thought i was beginning to understand you spoiled everything :)

    Darren Islar: hahahah

    Darren Islar: sorry about that

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i have met several female avs who were men in rl

    Darren Islar: I know it happens more the other way around

    Woolcinder Oxidor: do you tell this to the women you date

    Darren Islar: heh, she is actually a he

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i cant even think how it should work

    Darren Islar: :-))))

    Darren Islar: I understand

    Woolcinder Oxidor: the simple physics is way too complicated to fathom

    Darren Islar: but to both of us it is exploring sexuality in a different way

    Woolcinder Oxidor: how did you even met her

    Darren Islar: oh, she is part of the gang

    Darren Islar: of the gang I am in as Liza

    Darren Islar: we could get along with each other very well

    Darren Islar: then she explained who she was

    Darren Islar: then the male-avatars came in

    Darren Islar: and after some experimenting Darren and her woman-part found each other own sexuality

    Darren Islar: while 'she' and Liza share more the humor and the chatting

    Woolcinder Oxidor: so it wasnt very pre fabricated

    Darren Islar: no, it wasn't

    Darren Islar: it wasn't at all

    Darren Islar: it just happened

    Woolcinder Oxidor: reminds me of a story now

    Woolcinder Oxidor: a time travel story

    Woolcinder Oxidor: "all you zombies"

    Darren Islar: doesn't sound like a happy story :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: a girl is raised in an orphanage

    Woolcinder Oxidor: she meets a guy falls in love and becomes pregnant

    Woolcinder Oxidor: on the day of her delivery the guy kidnaps the baby and vanishes

    Woolcinder Oxidor: the doctors find she also has a male reproductive system

    Woolcinder Oxidor: so they operate her and he becomes a man

    Woolcinder Oxidor: she becomes a man

    Darren Islar: :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: that guy on the other hand who kidnapped the baby...travels in time and puts the baby..a girl...in an orphanage

    Woolcinder Oxidor: the girl..who went surgery...travels back in time as a guy

    Woolcinder Oxidor: there he/she meets a girl who was raised in an orphanage

    Darren Islar: heheh

    Woolcinder Oxidor: they fall in love and the girl becomes pregnant

    Woolcinder Oxidor: but how are you like in rl

    Darren Islar: huh?

    Woolcinder Oxidor: http://ieng9.ucsd.edu/~mfedder/zombies.html

    Woolcinder Oxidor: heres the complete text

    Darren Islar: I guess you put liza and darren togehter and you get a pretty overall picture :-)

    Darren Islar: thanks

    Darren Islar: I will read it, because I wonder why he kidnappes the baby :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: oh theres no explanation to that i think

    Darren Islar: just needed for the story

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes ...i guess


    Woolcinder Oxidor: there also a bartender in it which i missed

    Darren Islar: okay :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: but i have never read the story from the social aspect of it

    Woolcinder Oxidor: i was merely interested in the science

    Woolcinder Oxidor: but you have given me an all new perspective

    Darren Islar: ah, I understand

    Darren Islar: I would read it more probably from the social aspect

    Darren Islar: I see it is twelve here

    Darren Islar: I need to go

    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes i must be going too

    Darren Islar: nice meeting you :-)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: same here :)

    Woolcinder Oxidor: have a nice day

    Darren Islar: hope to see you more often here :-)

    Darren Islar: same to you

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