2010.05.01 01:00 - Diamonds In The Rough

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    The Guardian for this meeting was No Self. This appeared to be an "orphan" log so Calvino Rabeni posted it.  If you were GoC for this session, have at it for comments :) 

    Qt Core: Hi Scath
    Qt Core: HiBertrum
    Bertrum Quan: Hi QT, hi Scath
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Qt, Bertrum
    Qt Core: Hi Darren
    Bertram Jacobus: hello and good morning from germany ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Bertram
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Bertram
    Qt Core: ops, wrong name :-) hi Bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: ah - i´m not darren ? ;-)
    Qt Core: aren't you ?
    Qt Core: ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: no. i guess, i´m not
    Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Bertram Jacobus: ah sharon hello :-9
    Bertram Jacobus: bah - the ugly nine again grr ;o)
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Sophia
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophiaSharon
    Qt Core: hi sophiasharon
    Qt Core: the ugly 9 ?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes : sometimes the 9 comes instead of )
    Bertram Jacobus: instead of :-) for example :-9
    Bertram Jacobus: very evil !
    Qt Core: ohh
    Bertram Jacobus: lol yes
    Scathach Rhiadra: maybe your keyboard is not working properly
    Scathach Rhiadra: shift key may be broken
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) I thought that was on purpose Bertram :)
    Bertram Jacobus: whereas ... there are teachings which say evilness in the end wouldn´t exist : it was only unconciousness, always. and i agree in that :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Qt Core: everyone has his/her characteristic slepping error, you can use them even to recognize people sometimes
    Qt Core: spelling
    Bertram Jacobus: and schth : no : my keyboard is fine. it´s the human who does not work properly ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: scath*
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah:)
    Bertram Jacobus: as one can see : many typos. bertram fails often
    Bertram Jacobus: ugly bertram ! ;o)
    Qt Core: (one of my more frequent errors is ; for ')
    Scathach Rhiadra: so has anyone a topic they would like to discuss?
    Bertram Jacobus: nice idea : recognize people by their errors. a former girlfriend of mine said ones, she would love my faults because they made it only being me - found that quite impressive (!) ...
    Bertram Jacobus: once*
    Qt Core: but then she become a former gf.... you must have done too many things right then ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: very wise perspective ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: that is impressive
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. possible qt ! ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus likes that sharon shares this view :-)
    Qt Core: after all, aren't many diamonds valued for the imperfections that give them special colors ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles, I'm sleepy, but it makes sense, not compatable in all ways, but your faults are not it?
    Bertrum Quan: Anyone have any thoughts about the oil spill in the Guld of Mexico?
    Bertrum Quan: /Gulf
    Bertram Jacobus: i think diamonds are the more expensive the more perfect they are - or do i err with that ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia wants to grab a huge shawalla thing, you know those mops
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its awful
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes it is awful
    Bertram Jacobus: my faults are / were not what plz sharon ? ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and the gulf thing ... whaow
    Bertram Jacobus: sry
    Qt Core: yes, bert, but then in their plain boring perfection they are all equals, the colored ones are the recognizable, a little weirtd ones
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm not saying you have faults :) but they may or may not have had anything to do with why you are no longer together
    Bertram Jacobus: i find it astonishing that only a little security cover was missing to avoid that heavy thing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Bertram Jacobus: and that in america that is not yet prescribed - like in other parts of the world
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. no sharon. i think, qt was jokin with that ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Qt Core: yes, me seriuos ? noooo
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Im using the new sl viewer, its contributing to an unrealness
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so I may have taken this conversation out of context :))
    Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m curious when i will see the new viewer first time or even if ever ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its strange :)
    Bertram Jacobus: i heard a lot about it, naturally
    Qt Core: your opinion about the evilnes of the new nearby chat versus the im chat, sharon ?
    Qt Core: if you don't use a third party one i think you will be forced to use the new one before summer ends
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha i havent even had the opportunity to see about the IM chat yet ;p
    Bertram Jacobus: and it´s always the change which bothers people - okay : mostly
    SophiaSharon Larnia: for example, I have to find how to open the window, to see past comments ^^
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Qt Core: (the little arrow on the right of the input area
    Qt Core: )
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
    Qt Core: then you'' like to go in the option to remove the fancyness and just have the text
    Qt Core: you'' = you'll
    Bertrum Quan: Gotta go. Have a great weekend everyone!
    Qt Core: bye Bertrum
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bertrum
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Bertrum, have a good weekend
    Bertram Jacobus: bye bertrum
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, like in real life, visuals are distracting
    Scathach Rhiadra: I still haven't downloaded the new viewer
    Scathach Rhiadra: must try it this weekend
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I felt that if someone new asked for help, I wouldn't be able to
    SophiaSharon Larnia: except to give them a quizzical look hahaha
    Darren Islar: hi everyone
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Darren
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Darren
    Qt Core: Hi Darren (and this time is the right name ;-) )
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe - you may have prophetic abilities qt (?) ... ;-)
    Qt Core: :-) i hope not, no surprises then
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ouch :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning everyone
    Darren Islar: hey Yaku
    Scathach Rhiadra: Good morning Yakuzza
    Bertram Jacobus: lol hy yaku
    Qt Core: while i usually like to play future scenarios and possibilities in my mind i love how life seem to prefer the weirder ones or the ones i didn't think about
    SophiaSharon Larnia: morning Yakuzza
    Qt Core: hi yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Insomnia sharon ?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes indeed
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (to Qt)
    Qt Core: (not that i don't ever get the right one :-) )
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm usually up all night, just too blah to come here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: unfortuantely, Qt, you have to wait so long to see ^^
    SophiaSharon Larnia: or maybe fortunately
    Darren Islar: is it alright if I'm puzzled here?
    Qt Core: yes, but then no one could prove you wrong if you go more than 100 years in the future ;-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :) yes maybe
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry Darren
    Qt Core: (all started when i greeted bertram sayinh hi Darren, Darren)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Bertram Jacobus: hy qt :o)
    Darren Islar: ah, and then I came in for real
    Bertram Jacobus: but we could give darren a log if he likes ? do you darren ? ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey paradise
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Paradise :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Paradise
    Darren Islar: hi Paradise
    Bertram Jacobus: hello paradise ! :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (i dont know how to do that efficiently yet sorry!)
    Qt Core: hi Paradise
    Darren Islar: (whatever real my be here)
    Paradise Tennant: hiya sophia yakuzza darren .. bertram qt :) scat :)
    Darren Islar: *may
    Wol Euler: ha, I came just in time :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Wol :)
    Wol Euler: morning everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: guten morngen wol
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello wol
    Darren Islar: hi Wol
    Paradise Tennant: hiya wol
    Wol Euler: happy may day
    Darren Islar: why just in time?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: happy may day!
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow wol ! crowded morning (for germans at least and some others, europeans et al) here today ! :-)
    Wol Euler: [1:40] Darren Islar: (whatever real my be here)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey, it´s a holiday so we won´t have to work, ah wait a minute i wouldn´t have had to work anyway :(
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Darren Islar: ah :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the new 2.0 viewer is contributing to this unrealness for me :)
    Wol Euler: use emerald instead.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: usually do
    Wol Euler: good :)
    Bertram Jacobus: one could call all "real" or "unreal" in my eyes ... ;o)
    Qt Core: hi wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes there spawn boxes i own and am the creator when i log into SL
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Bert
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have no idea why that happens
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Qt Core: maybe you unintentionally hit some building key combo
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thats what i think too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not as easy to do in the new viewer
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but it never happened before viewer 2.0
    Darren Islar: so you don't know yourself where they are coming from?
    Darren Islar: neat :-)
    Qt Core: and that would be some spelling mistakes... no text errors but "real life" consequences... like a wizard with the hiccup creating random spells ;-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Paradise Tennant: lol qt
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a scripting hiccup
    Qt Core: going back to the gulf of mexico oil spill, here they are using this to push nuclear power (that we renounced in the '80 with a national poll)
    Bertram Jacobus: why don´t we use sun power and wind energy more ??
    Qt Core: an that the green movement is ready to block with another poll too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i wish they'd develop greener sources of energy that I know must exist
    Bertram Jacobus: there is already so much possible ! why don´t we use it massively !?
    Wol Euler: it's a mystery to me why the oil companies aren't investing in alternative energy. Surely they know htat oil will run out
    Wol Euler: and that if htey remain "oil companies" they will die with it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yup
    Wol Euler: they need to think of themselves as "energy providers"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and perhaps they have, just guarding the market
    Qt Core: yes, but they will do so much money with the last oil drop that they can close the compaby happy after the oil end
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, they are doing already. a bit. but don´t understand too why they are not engaged yet much more intense
    Darren Islar: I have no idea either
    Wol Euler: ty darren :)
    Wol Euler: you can't guard a market by letting someone else lead it.
    Darren Islar: but Shell claimed that the crisis made them nog invest anymore, because of the price of development
    Qt Core: maybe at the end of oil they will become fresh water drilling company
    Darren Islar: but they made quite some money last year
    Qt Core: another liquid gold in the future
    Wol Euler: true qt
    Darren Islar: yw :-) couldn;t help myself :-)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Bertram Jacobus: i can´t imagine that people don´t see the dangers which come from the "old energy systems and winning forms" 8as i like to call them here)
    Qt Core: sadly i know people that thinks that green issues aren't for them... as they will be deat when the bigger problems will come
    Qt Core: (obvioulsy they don't have children)
    Wol Euler: nor a conscience
    Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV
    Bertram Jacobus: and i think, with the new and clean methods can and will be earned money too (?)
    Bertram Jacobus: when i see all the roofs of houses without suncollectors ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: out of the hands of the powers that be
    Darren Islar: yes, but they first want to get the money out of an old product
    Darren Islar: and changing seems to be difficult even for companies
    Wol Euler nods.
    Bertram Jacobus: i can´t understand those mechanisms sometimes i must admit ...
    Darren Islar: they can alreday do more then they actually are doing
    Bertram Jacobus: even when things are so obvious
    Qt Core: there is only one, make money fast
    Darren Islar: yes living in the now, now I'm the one as CEO that makes money out of it
    Bertram Jacobus: but the borders and failures of that makin only fast money system occures now too
    Darren Islar: with a big bonus
    Darren Islar: but if you don't want to change, you just close your eyes
    Bertram Jacobus: and alternatives already exist : in the net for example, in sl also ... many shares, freewilling contributions ...
    Bertram Jacobus: i think surviving could be nice, may be with the "always help, never harm" idea ...
    Bertram Jacobus: and joy of living also should be recognized by more and more persons as the real worth "thing" (!?), quality, not quantity and all that ... giving, sharing, happyness ... hm
    Wol Euler: agreed :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye all :)) have a good rest of your day, true Bert!
    Bertram Jacobus: ty wol :-)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles .. thank you .. all .. interesting conversation .. but almost dawn here .. very sleepy . going to trundle back to bed :) happy holiday!
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must be off, have a great weekend everyone:)
    Wol Euler: bye sharon, enjoy the weekend
    Bertram Jacobus: bye sharon
    Qt Core: like looking more at suicide statistics than at net worth
    SophiaSharon Larnia: waves to everyone
    Wol Euler: 'night paradise, sleep well
    Darren Islar: bye everyone tha tis going
    Qt Core: bye Sharon
    Bertram Jacobus: bye paradise
    Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté
    Wol Euler: bye scath, take care
    Paradise Tennant: smiles byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    Qt Core: bye Paradise, sleep well
    Bertram Jacobus: bye scath
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s hard to really understand what´s right in the modern society
    Bertram Jacobus: appreciate more and more that " namasté " , strange ... but - okay : may be it´s the time for me for that now, all shall have it´s time some say ... ;-9
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: really yaku ? i think contrary : in more then 99 % of all relations and situations i have the impression i konw what is right - examples ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Do you think the world should be egaliterian betram ?
    Bertram Jacobus: egaliterian ? i hope i understand the word in the right way
    Bertram Jacobus: and i would say, first i would like to have it simple ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: second i would accept the diofferences between the phenomenons, but also the similarities
    Yakuzza Lethecus: It´s tricky for me, who owns what and who claimed something in the first place to sell it afterwards, is the word ,,ours" ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: world
    Bertram Jacobus: and so, my idea is : it should simply be that nobody should suffer - that we should work for that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: But not suffering might start just in the head of the ppl.
    Bertram Jacobus: i like the idea that we all only are guests here ...
    Darren Islar: answers always come easy, the doing can be surprisingly hard
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s in the heads and in the hands yaku i would say
    Yakuzza Lethecus: You can be rich having 100 chicks taking drugs all the time and hang urself because ur mother died or something...
    Yakuzza Lethecus doesn´t claim to make much sense now
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: We all want energy so we are using non regenerative forms of energy
    Qt Core: i was thinking about real chickens... thye poultry kind :-)
    Darren Islar: it is a bit of a weird statement, but I get the drift :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. so incresase the brigth aspects of life is my orientation
    Yakuzza Lethecus: when we use regenerative energy scientists tell us that some of these energyforms also pollute the envrionment
    Qt Core: toke a while to go to the human kind
    Yakuzza Lethecus: like oilplant´s and alike
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Bertram Jacobus: i find, it´s important to work on oneself. that is what i can do at least. and that includes to work for others. or even may focus that.
    Darren Islar: right Yaku, I agree
    Darren Islar: we ara all prt of the system using the product they offer us
    Darren Islar: and as long as we do, 'they' keep on producing it
    Qt Core: but even if starting at the lowest level many issues need big resource
    Bertram Jacobus: you can allow bad thought or good ones
    Bertram Jacobus: thoughts*
    Qt Core: (thinking about the Hero movie i watched yesterday on tv and its "under a only sky" motto
    Bertram Jacobus: under a only sky - what does that mean, plz ?
    Darren Islar: Yaku seems to be writing a book :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know what to type actually, all thoughts come weired together at onces :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: take your time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i trigger on greek ppl retire at early age
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i trigger on nuklear power and waste and energy
    Qt Core: that there is only one sky over the separated kingdoms that were fighjting in the movie and once united, with the force, even with many tragedies and deaths them can achieve bigger things... like building the big wall for everyone protection
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i trigger at ppl that work in bigger company´s retireing at age of like 55 like an aunt of mine
    Wol Euler: well, think how bored she will be for the next thirty years. That's no future.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you don´t believe that these ppl won´t do anything do you ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s jsut they get money they won´t stop working or doing thigns
    Qt Core: for many years here in italy techers could retire at 39 years and one day of ager
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just that they aren´t unemployed or without insurence
    Darren Islar: 39 ?
    Wol Euler: well, hte fact is that many people truly do not do anything once they retire. A significant minority (percentage) die within a year of retiring
    Qt Core: yes, it was called "baby retirement"
    Darren Islar smiles at QT remark
    Bertram Jacobus: i´ll retire now from this place for now ... ;-)
    Darren Islar: wel, I don't think it is about age
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a coworker of my father retired below age 50 he´s now trading cattle and still got the cheapest insurences
    Qt Core: :-) bye bertram, have fun
    Wol Euler: bye bert, enjoy may day. But don't burn any cars.
    Bertram Jacobus: tyvm all again for the nice talk, meeting and community !
    Darren Islar: but about justification
    Darren Islar: bye Bert
    Yakuzza Lethecus: since you have many benefits when you are or were ,,beamted"
    Bertram Jacobus: and may all beings be happy please ...
    Bertram Jacobus: namasté ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bert
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know when i should get upset or when i shouldn´t about all those buttons in everyday life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s to see them and to see that it´s not an egalitarian world which is obvious, but should i smile and say ,,it doesn´t matter"
    Qt Core: several retired people now have understood they still need to do something so, especially the one volonteering around may even give more that the money they got from retirement
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or should i smile and say ,,lets check what to do about it"
    Wol Euler: if it matters to you, then it matters. Definitely the latter.
    Darren Islar: right, the triggers are there
    Yakuzza Lethecus: then i feel how unelaborated my own views are and when i get emotional i get irrational
    Darren Islar: (sometimes the search for symmetrie makes it hard for my camera :-))
    Wol Euler: :)
    Qt Core: i often end up putting it at zenith
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s even a thing of words in real life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: work isn´t work
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a year ,,auszeit" isn´t a year auszeit
    Qt Core: and noticing another viewer 2 silliness, in the minimap the people ar dot or arrows depending on cam position, not av position
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a coworker of mine got a daugther age 17 whom is taking an ,,auszeit" she´s basicly at home
    Wol Euler: (that is in emerald too, qt, it's part of the standard software core)
    Wol Euler: (but it feels wrong, you're right)
    Qt Core: still don't liking it ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the son of the woman my mother cooks for is doing a year ,,auszeit" without school or study but he was in different counties already
    Qt Core: is auszeilt (as a word) comparable to "sabbatical" as in sabbatical year ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: kind of
    Wol Euler: yes, but not necessarily with the academical or working overtones
    Wol Euler: it just means "time off"
    Darren Islar: i assumed so
    Wol Euler: a year off
    Qt Core: ok, the academical overtones are much lover in its meaning in italian (sabbatico/a)
    Qt Core: lower
    Darren Islar: Yaku, can you give me a few words that make clear what you mean
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean some ppl are definetivly doing study while others just do nothing at all
    Darren Islar: I mean you tell us what is triggering you, but what is triggering about?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: below the same words
    Yakuzza Lethecus: some ppl work 70 hrs a week but increase their connections in real life as well as their work
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: other ppl work 50-60 hrs and do the same stupid thing all the time
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but they have to
    Qt Core: then there is the question live to work or work to live ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: there is just life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we never stop learning we only rename our activities, i even believe that economy is for some ppl just a pure gamble
    Yakuzza Lethecus: all those game theoretical constructs
    Wol Euler nods.
    Darren Islar: you seem to be spinning around in your thoughts Yaku, but I would like to get a little bit closer and I'm wondering what it is about all those situations you are describing
    Darren Islar: what do they have in common
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that they are buttons :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i get emotional can´t elaborate upon them
    Darren Islar: but why?
    Darren Islar: doe you feel like life is unjust to you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t know how to get empirical information how to use empirical date
    Yakuzza Lethecus: data
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how to have access to ,,true" information
    Wol Euler: google is a start
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how much am i formed by my invironment
    Wol Euler: when you find a source that you trust, despite its bias, then keep a note of it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, you know that i already use sources beyond google
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wol :)
    Wol Euler: I dislike the bias of the Economist, for example, but I believe their facts
    Wol Euler: so I use them as a reference to get me started
    Darren Islar: why this search for facts and 'right' information?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because i don´t know what´s right or wrong
    Darren Islar: what is your hart telling you?
    Darren Islar: there is no truth outside
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that i should smile at the world how it is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no matter how it will shift in my perspective
    Qt Core: but still we needgood data to navigate it
    Darren Islar: I think that is what you would like to do, which is a great goal
    Darren Islar: but the triggers are getting in the way
    Darren Islar: why is that?
    Darren Islar: what gets triggered?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we have a free will but still company´s apply all psychological data they can get into their products to get our attention
    Darren Islar: (oh, if you don't want to answer tell me so :-))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
    Wol Euler: bye qt, take care
    Darren Islar: bye QT
    Qt Core: time to go, bye all and have fun
    Yakuzza Lethecus: is science working for us ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: there are patents on new created pigs and alike whom producing meat with ,,ungesättigten fettsäuren"
    Darren Islar: there is a lot going wrong and a lot to be angry bout
    Darren Islar: but why is it triggering you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: why a lot to be angry about ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because i feel tricked :)
    Darren Islar: you sound angry, or irritated, but maybe that is my assumption
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sure i am irritated
    Darren Islar: you feel tricked, can you tell us more about that feeling
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh it´s easy for example i have the feeling that i am not as stupid as i thought in the past but still don´t act in the ,,right way"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but don´t truely know whats the right way only that i can act much better when i ,,just be"
    Darren Islar: you would like to just be
    Darren Islar: excepting the world for what it is, smiling at it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my entire motivation system is or was kinda fucked up
    Darren Islar: but you are too 'stupid' to do so?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes
    Darren Islar: where is that coming from, this feeling of 'stupidity', do you know that?
    Darren Islar: is it the way people treat you
    Darren Islar: or the way you are raised
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, it´s just life :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes it´s the way ppl raised me, treating each other
    Darren Islar: no it isn't
    Darren Islar: life shouldn't be as painful as jou are describing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am not worse off then many other humans
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in fact we are in the western world on the bright side
    Wol Euler: you have the advantage that you have become aware of these things in yourself, so you have the chance to change them.
    Darren Islar: are we?
    Wol Euler: and by changing them, improve the world too
    Darren Islar: right Wol
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i am in a deep blurryness and trying to construct the blurryness in words
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in order to find my way through on which topic ever
    Yakuzza Lethecus: on which button ever
    Darren Islar: this blurryness seems to appear when something is triggered
    Yakuzza Lethecus: of course
    Darren Islar: how did people raise you, treated each other?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, of course i am thinking about childhood experiences like constant trouble in my family as i remember or my farther basicly never been there but i can claim that they both loved us
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it was just the way it was
    Darren Islar: no other question, sorry, what was the trigger, what was the moment that is started
    Darren Islar: toay I mean
    Yakuzza Lethecus: only that i see that other children we in better environments but when they are grown up differences were there but won´t count pragmaticly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: 2 ppl apply for a job and 1 person is obviously better for it so he gets it and its right that that person gets it
    Darren Islar: a feeling of not being treated in the same way, getting the same opportunities?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i think a lot about egalitarianism
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i never had anyone able to help me with english
    Darren Islar: can you explain that word to me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the same experiences and the same ressources for everyone
    Darren Islar: people treated equally?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still i don´t even know if that is such a good thing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it would decrease the variations in our society
    Darren Islar: does that mean you don't feel equal to others or that others doesn't treat you equally?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t claim to have an opinion whats right or wrong at all i only notice my buttons when they happen
    Darren Islar: hmmmm, I'n not so interested in whether it is a good thing
    Darren Islar: I'm interested in where these thoughts are coming from
    Darren Islar: that si a good thing Yaku and a good start to get more information about your buttons
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because i sometimes feel that situations are just unjust
    Darren Islar: yes, the unjust thing is coming up regularly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, of course
    Darren Islar: why of course :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s how it is for me, a constant search for glimses in the blurryness of life
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my triggers usually are feeling of ,,injustice" and then i ask myself what i am seeing wrong
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not smiling at anything is a problem
    Yakuzza Lethecus: understanding my motivation system
    Darren Islar: I think it is not about what you see wrong
    Darren Islar: there is no wrong or right if it comes to that
    Darren Islar: what I wonder about is how it feels to you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Darren Islar: you described anger
    Darren Islar: or irritation at least
    Darren Islar: are there other feelings?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that´s basicly it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean noticing that i get into even english very well and noticing that i can do things when i am surrounded by the right ppl
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and how many years i might have wasted not having a better environment
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: I'm sorry to hear that Yaku
    Wol Euler: yses, I was smiling at the previous line
    Darren Islar: I understand
    Darren Islar: we, I guess :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the issue is that i alwasy wanted to improve in my perspective but i thought that it was more natural how we think of the world
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i realize that it´s a big codependent arising and ppl using that even pragmaticly
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ppl might have the same amount of money but hugh differences in their connectedness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: creating an positive environment will let us just learn, we are always learning and we´ll never stop
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so we have to learn how to create healty environments and learn how to communicate without leaving ppl behind
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sill how many ressources are we allowed to use
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how big should the asymmetrie is allowed to be
    Yakuzza Lethecus: be allowed to be
    Wol Euler shifts uneasily. The reverse of that is just as big a problem, yaku. Who gets to decide who has too much money?
    Wol Euler: that has almost alwy
    Wol Euler: almost always gone wrong, in human history
    Darren Islar: you have this scenario's, those thoughts on how it should or shouldn't be
    Darren Islar: and the are all very valid
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods, wol
    Darren Islar: I can find the same thoughts in my head
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i vote the FTP last time btw :)
    Darren Islar: FTP ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ups
    Yakuzza Lethecus: fdp
    Darren Islar: something german?
    Darren Islar: sounds like a political party to me
    Wol Euler: liberal party
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, a party it´s just to say that i am not extremly on the left wing
    Darren Islar: yes, okay that fdp :-)
    Darren Islar: but you know, what thoughts and scenario's do is making you look outside
    Darren Islar: but inside of you there are things that are getting in the way to do what you think is the right thing to do
    Darren Islar: thoughts are making you to find answers in your environgment
    Darren Islar: feelings are making you search for answers inside
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i see many times that things ain´t right
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but don´t know how to make them better
    Darren Islar: you don't need to
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and the solutions seem to benefit a specific lobby
    Yakuzza Lethecus: which are applied by politics
    Darren Islar: you only need to make yourself a better person
    Darren Islar: feel more comfortabl with yourself
    Yakuzza Lethecus: everyone is supposed to be good as he is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: exactly :)
    Darren Islar: so anger
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how to appreaciate the appearances of percieved unjustices as presentation of being
    Darren Islar: to examine yourself
    Darren Islar: your feelings, your thoughts
    Darren Islar: to not let you get distracted by your environment
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, because i can´t elaborate upon thoughts when i get stuck through depression
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and fear
    Darren Islar: your own scenario's
    Darren Islar: ah
    Darren Islar: depression and fear
    Darren Islar: those are really big things getting in the way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the unabilty to communicate the concrete elements which lead me to become stuck are depressing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: because getting stuck and stopping can be interpreted and abused by others in terms of lazyness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and lazyness means they are allowed to ,,don´t care" ,,persons fault"
    Darren Islar: so you are a lazy bugger :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: That is one of the aspects, you need to get ppl into the situation that you can describe them as being lazy in order to don´t provide them with ressources anymore
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so you can rationalize ur non interaction with them
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but lazyness doesn´t make sense at all
    Darren Islar: I'm afraid it is all true
    Yakuzza Lethecus: u lack ur future potentiallity of self expression
    Wol Euler: oops
    Darren Islar: oops
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: I guess the computer heated up to much
    Wol Euler: hdheheheheheh
    Wol Euler: wb
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thx just crashed
    Darren Islar: hey Yaku
    Darren Islar: we noticed :-)
    Darren Islar: hey antoher cube
    Wol Euler: where?
    Darren Islar: Yaku already got rid of it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: didn´t see it either
    Wol Euler: ha, missed it.
    Darren Islar: but it is ysterious
    Darren Islar: oh it was there :-)
    Darren Islar: you seem to have powers you even didn't know you had
    Wol Euler: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s tricky, we need to rationalize that kids raised by pokemon,digimon,sailormoon and the teletubbies are lazy
    Darren Islar: it is what you try to do is rationalizing
    Darren Islar: in order to get grib
    Wol Euler: inactive maybe.
    Darren Islar: but the rationalizing will fail in the end
    Wol Euler: well, *surely* inactive, physically at least
    Darren Islar: there is no way you can solve all the problems by just thinking about it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i try to float in my thoughts and embrace it and learn to appreaciate my thoughts as they come to mind and learn to express it
    Darren Islar: especially not your own
    Darren Islar: ah, okay :-)
    Darren Islar: you didn't express them before did you?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: being in play as being is partly learning to speak
    Darren Islar: ghere was probably a time you couldn't
    Wol Euler: true
    Wol Euler: probably true for all of us, yaku, it is teaching me that as well
    Darren Islar: yes, we are all here for a reason
    Darren Islar: but in that case this is a big change
    Darren Islar: talking about what you think
    Darren Islar: I need to say, you talk more then when I came here
    Darren Islar: and the retreat has been important
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, right now i am talking more
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes it was really important for me
    Darren Islar: I think you changed after that
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Darren Islar: and if I havelistened right it has got something to do with the right environment for you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not that i wouldn´t have the same thoughts then i had before, but we developed more trust i guess
    Darren Islar: right
    Darren Islar: trust
    Darren Islar: very important
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have to admit that i am seeking for ppl i look up to but i don´t see that many
    Darren Islar: heheheh
    Darren Islar: you shouldn't, but I undestand the need
    Darren Islar: there is no one to look up to
    Darren Islar: no one that is getting you out of your blurryness
    Darren Islar: only people that may take a walk with you for a while
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, at least to show some glimses :)
    Darren Islar: walking along on your path together
    Darren Islar: or joining pathes so to speak
    Yakuzza Lethecus: gosh, now i start to loose my focus :)
    Darren Islar: great!!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not that there was much of it before :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: don't worry about it
    Darren Islar: no but just a few moments ago you tried to get focus
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still i see this as an ideal form, where everyone can interact with everyone
    Darren Islar: now you seem to have dropped some of that
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no matter of socio economic status
    Darren Islar: right
    Darren Islar: hey Bert
    Wol Euler: wb bert
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - still here ! :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: somebody with psychological problems and disability can get together with the single raising mum, with the former drugaddict or the professor from princeton
    Darren Islar: PaB is like an intersection where different kinds of people meet
    Wol Euler nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: pab is what i see as kinda egalitarian
    Darren Islar: right
    Bertram Jacobus: hoi stevie ;-)
    Darren Islar: and we decided to stay on that intersection for a while
    Darren Islar: and talk to each other
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Darren Islar: sitthing down, having a cup of thee
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey steven
    Darren Islar: hi Stevie
    Wol Euler: hello steve, good morning
    Bertram Jacobus: morning ! ... ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: thx, yes it is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: even when i see this thing in buddism ,,retreats for medical doctors" or all these things that try to preserve groups in their groups
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s all a problem for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: groups try to seperate each other from each other because it won´t bring them that much benefit
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sure it´s not about buddism with ,,retreats for medical doctors" but i know that those things are created to be specialized for specific groups
    Bertram Jacobus: i like the bodhisattva idea : especially one rule : there is only one thing, which brakes the bodhisattva commitment : to exclude a being (!) ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ppl from different socio economic backgrounds try to sperate each other
    Darren Islar: hmm, there is still a lot to lurn for me about Buddhism :-)
    Darren Islar: but it is so true
    Darren Islar: they do, it is true
    Darren Islar: and we don't
    Bertram Jacobus: with bodhisattva vow it´s not allowed anymore for you to exclude somebody. and you did that freewillingly
    Darren Islar: somebody is brining in a bad working AO
    Yakuzza Lethecus: AO ?
    Darren Islar: yes one that kind find animations, my screen looks red now
    Darren Islar: hi Hard
    stevenaia Michinaga: hoping is wasn't my weed
    Hard Wiskee: hello Darren
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hello hard
    Darren Islar: no it started when Hard got in :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Wol Euler: your AO seems broken, Hard.
    Wol Euler: hello, hard
    Hard Wiskee: go figure
    Darren Islar: it is weird, the group has stopped for a while and people are coming in
    Darren Islar: what is that about this place ?
    Hard Wiskee: just many of the frustrations and challenges of sl
    Bertram Jacobus: it´s a meeting point here
    Bertram Jacobus: nice talks now and then ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: to be seen on the maps
    Hard Wiskee: soon we will all be a puddle of goo
    Bertram Jacobus: known by some
    Darren Islar: a lot of green dots
    Bertram Jacobus: yess :-)
    Darren Islar: attracting other green dots
    Darren Islar: sl-philosophy :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: sometimes even yellow ones ! ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hard, Welcome, we do record our conversations, is it ok to include you?
    Darren Islar: wow, yellow ones :-)
    Darren Islar: I like those
    Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: must be us blonds
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Wol Euler: well, that seems to have settled Hard.
    Darren Islar: of Yaku's shining head
    stevenaia Michinaga: if that's all it took, we did good
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: well I have been sitting in my bud for an hour and half
    Darren Islar: need some stretching
    Bertram Jacobus: bud ? budweiser ? ;-)
    Wol Euler: I should have lunch, I'm working this afternoon :(
    Darren Islar: hmm, I wish :-)
    Darren Islar: oh sorry Wol
    Bertram Jacobus: aarghs ! ;o) poor wol ! :-/
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, wol, lucky to be busy
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Darren Islar: hehehh
    Wol Euler: half full, half empty, or twice as large as it needs to be :)
    Bertram Jacobus: a challenge to make good out of bad
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: or a task
    Bertram Jacobus: bye darren
    Wol Euler: bye for now, my dears.
    Darren Islar: by all
    stevenaia Michinaga: or just something that can be inevitable
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care wol
    Bertram Jacobus: bye wol dear :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy lunch Wol
    Wol Euler: ty, enjoy the day
    Darren Islar: see you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone
    Bertram Jacobus: why ? ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: quite a long session
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: have a seat
    Bertram Jacobus: i had made a pause in between, but then saw, from my spot, that still people were here and came back :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes it took a while for them to...dissappear
    Bertram Jacobus: to what are you listening (regarding to your tag)
    stevenaia Michinaga: more of a state of being, than anything in particular
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. great :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: whereas watching may be more common (?)
    stevenaia Michinaga: somethimes the solution is listening
    Bertram Jacobus: sure
    Bertram Jacobus: regarding
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, you can listen to what you see as well
    Bertram Jacobus: being aware
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. and see what you hear
    Bertram Jacobus: we are wise ! ...
    stevenaia Michinaga: like your questions, I don;t know what I am listening too, then you ask, it is easier to respond to a question
    Bertram Jacobus: may be you listen to all or at least try to ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm sure there are internal filters involves, but there is much out there to listen to, probably makes this place that much more interesting
    stevenaia Michinaga: some like to listen, others like to be heard
    Bertram Jacobus: i think both is okay
    Bertram Jacobus: in a good measure
    Bertram Jacobus: like the buddha said : the path of the middle ...
    stevenaia Michinaga: I do alot of this ... while I am listening..... what I hear is true for me, or not true for me
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes I don't know it is until I hear something that is.
    stevenaia Michinaga: like learing about the middle path or  Wu wei
    stevenaia Michinaga: *learning
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ...
    stevenaia Michinaga: or learing, I suppose
    stevenaia Michinaga: much of those ideas I learned from here
    Bertram Jacobus: great
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m also benefiting from our group a lot i think
    stevenaia Michinaga: yet I found they are the things "fit" for me
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm just finding what other people have called them
    Bertram Jacobus: i associate "living" ...
    Bertram Jacobus: was a sponteneous thought ...
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: playing also
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, another good word that fits
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems if you Play well, Being will follow
    Bertram Jacobus: at the moment i like to play enlightened ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and being i understand again like the buddha explained it : always already everywhere existing
    stevenaia Michinaga: most of what I know about Buddhism I heard here, then I found many friend who are buddhists
    Bertram Jacobus: for me, it´s not because it´s buddhism, it´s because the words in it fit so well to me. but i also found, then (!), the - i like to call him : the good jesus (!) ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: for sure also the sense lol
    Bertram Jacobus: but the sense is expressed in many ways
    stevenaia Michinaga: :) I don't know much about Jesus either but I suspect the the intensions were the same, the buddists were jsut better interpertors of the words, (better listeners)
    stevenaia Michinaga: From what I have observed, both philosophies can get bogged down pretty quickly in their own complexity
    Bertram Jacobus: oh yes agree
    stevenaia Michinaga: dogma
    Bertram Jacobus: yes, but not neccessairily
    Bertram Jacobus: therefor i like to come now and then back to thier essentials
    Bertram Jacobus: their*
    Bertram Jacobus: they are "easy" - as all deep essences i think : easy in their form, but not so easy to realize ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: okay - sometimes there are people with good abilities :
    Bertram Jacobus: may be they realize quickly when they hear
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: was the argument for buddha to teach. before he didn´t want. said : nobody will understand ...
    Bertram Jacobus: aren´t you in the us ? isn´t it terrible late - or early, there ? ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: a bit after 7:00 am here
    Bertram Jacobus: ah okay. that´s moderate ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: slt 4:09 (!) :o)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am usually up this early, just not on SL
    Bertram Jacobus: i see ...
    stevenaia Michinaga: you in mid-afternoon?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. early midafternoon 13:10 now here - germany
    stevenaia Michinaga: Wol was here for the 7:00 session last night (for me)
    Bertram Jacobus: soon a friend wanted to visit me ... is a bit late already ... but may be a bit typical for him (?) ... ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: time means different things to different people
    Bertram Jacobus: oh yes. nicely said !
    Bertram Jacobus: very fitting at this point !
    stevenaia Michinaga: I prefer to not keep people waiting
    stevenaia Michinaga: it;s jsut polite
    Bertram Jacobus: me similar : learned from my parents the means of kindness related to dates and have a job where in time is important too
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: but can handle it also when people let me wait : from a certain measure on i simply feel free to act like i want. stay, go, wait, not ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: mostly ;-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think I will cook pancakes this morning
    stevenaia Michinaga: but I willl go back to bed now and warm my toes
    Bertram Jacobus: when you say you´re not so familiar with buddha and even not wioth jesus - how comes that ? sounds a bit unusual to me ? did your parents follow other ideals ? or what is / was it please ? if i may ask so (?)
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow. "coool" *lol* :o)
    stevenaia Michinaga: not christian, not Buddist
    Bertram Jacobus: what then ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: so I learn form others
    stevenaia Michinaga: Jewish
    Bertram Jacobus: ah ! also - very intersting ... but may be we can talk a bit about "all that" later ... now
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: warm your toes please - was a pleasure ! ty ! :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: see you soon
    Bertram Jacobus: yes please :-)
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