2010.05.02 13:00 - Theme session: San Francisco retreat thoughts

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden. This meeting was planned to be a theme session focussing primarily on the experiences of those who attended the recent San Francisco retreat.  I have deleted many of the introductory greetings, and other preliminaries which seemed to my mind not fully relevant to the theme session itself.   About 10 minutes into the session I mention the theme session focus and this is where the chatlog begins.  While I might comment on the themes and meanderings of the session, it feels respectful to allow each reader to have his or her experience, for just as in the session there are not absolute realities, but the panoply of individual experiences to glean and accrue.  


    Maxine Walden: Probably everyone is aware that this is a theme session, with Pema and others speaking about the SF retreat
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Retreats/2010-04_California contains pointers to photos and reports
    Maxine Walden: or about themes from that retreat, is that right, Pema?
    Bleu Oleander: looking forward to it!
    Pema Pera: there are four reports now, fun to read!
    Pema Pera: different and similar in interesting ways
    Maxine Walden: looking forward to reading them
    Bleu Oleander: just read them .... very nice to read and think about
    Pema Pera: about wiping windows and seeing in fresh ways
    Maxine Walden: hmm :)
    Pema Pera: Wol and Gaya, let me express once again how much we missed you both !!
    Wol Euler: it was very mutual :(
    Wol Euler: and thank you
    Eos Amaterasu: Yes, missed seeing you for the 1st time, Gaya; and Wol the 2nd time
    Fefonz Quan: there was a science fiction retreat and i've missed it...)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed, we really felt you there... and not there...
    Eos Amaterasu: we did see Gaya once in a plate, over lunch :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Eos Amaterasu: (bunny image)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: do Koreans also see a bunny in the moon, Gaya?
    Pema Pera: (if so we say you there too)
    Pema Pera: *saw
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, I won a prize younger writing a poem on the Moon and a bunny that makes rice cake :) Lagging here a bit, not being rude.
    Eos Amaterasu: retreat started out with one worldly event after another, unpredictable, with volcano making big waves
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Gaya... still have the poem? Would love to read that
    Pema Pera: and many music bands unexpectedly showing up when we turned a corner
    Eliza Madrigal: 'unexpected' certainly seems the way to describe many aspects of the retreat
    Pema Pera: Gaya in the Moon / looking down on volcano / missing Earthbound friends
    Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... it's probably still hanging in the school somewhere :) I think I regretted growing up and finding out that the bunny doesn't exist on the Moon.
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Aaw
    Maxine Walden: nice Pema haiku
    Maxine Walden: maybe a partial expression of some of what went on at the retreat
    Agatha Macbeth waves to Liza
    Liza Deischer is waving back
    Fael Illyar waves to Liza and Sharon.
    Liza Deischer is waving back
    Pema Pera: one thing that was rather poignant in a small group is that we all felt forced to do more soul searching, I think; in a larger group it is easier to focus on the group dynamics, whereas in a smaller group each individual really stands out, warts and all, aspirations and all, inspirations and all . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Liza and Sharon :)
    Pema Pera: hi Sharon, hi Liza!
    Liza Deischer: hi everyone
    Maxine Walden: yes, the intimacy of the situation when fewer people there
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello SSL :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (sorry late!)
    Eliza Madrigal nods. Certainly true of my experience... Whatever expectations I'd arrived with were sort of turned over...
    Eliza Madrigal: in all kinds ways, and the distinctions between good/bad/happy/sad seemed hm, a little strange at times :) It was wonderfully challenging
    Eos Amaterasu: harder to find handholds in urban rertreat setting, small group
    Maxine Walden: ? Eos
    Maxine Walden: handholds?
    Eos Amaterasu: boundaries to hold on to
    Eos Amaterasu: such as "is this a retreat or is this ordinary life?"
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Maxine Walden: ah, I see
    Fael Illyar: I've been kind of feeling like I'm on a retreat in my home lately again.
    Fefonz Quan: so did you hold hands or not? :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :).. yes, when we went skipping down the lanes ;-)
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, not in the way we did in Malta :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: (kidding =P~)
    Agatha Macbeth: Pema poofs...
    Eos Amaterasu: We did go on adventures together
    Maxine Walden: appearance...disappearance...
    Eos Amaterasu: bring the band of retreatants into the world
    Wol Euler: bad mojo today :(
    Agatha Macbeth: Mojo not rising
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, interesting and unexpected adventures
    Eliza Madrigal: like "Hm, what is 4/20 all about?" "Why are these people gathered?"
    Agatha Macbeth: wb Gaya
    Wol Euler: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry SL isn't being friendly tonight. Will catch up via log. Good night everyone :)
    Agatha Macbeth: wb pema :)
    Pema Pera: (back within five minutes :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: SL reflecting some of the retreat experience...
    Wol Euler: heh, really.
    Maxine Walden: unanticipated events?
    Maxine Walden: Could you tell us some of the themes you investigated?
    Fefonz Quan: so you didn't pick someplace in the city and sat and talked/meditated?
    Maxine Walden: or practices?
    Pema Pera: hi there Genesis!
    Maxine Walden: hi gen
    Wol Euler: hello gen
    Pema Pera: in a park, for example, actually in more than one park
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
    genesis Zhangsun: just got my daughter to sleep :)
    Maxine Walden: ah...
    Pema Pera waving to Ella
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: One thing I can say personally is that 'because' Wol and Gaya didn't make it, I was profoundly aware of missing our SL community here during retreat 'away'... added onto by not taking a laptop :)
    Bleu Oleander: also SFers, could you explain a little further "starting at the end"?
    Wol Euler: awwwww <3
    Eliza Madrigal: I was a bit surprised by that... it heightened my awarenss of our connections
    Pema Pera: where to start, Bleu, in explaining :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: That was one question, how to start at the end in any situation, and in meeting people
    Eos Amaterasu: What does that mean?
    Bleu Oleander: what is meant by "end"
    Eliza Madrigal thinks of Eos's report line 'nothing to drop'
    Eliza Madrigal: or rather already dropped..
    Eos Amaterasu: Not too far from "what does PaB mean", how do we do Pab (here in SL, in Rl, etc)
    Pema Pera: one aspect is that we can't reach what we really are, 'cause we already are what we are -- trying to become a better person or reaching for realization or enlightenment can easily miss the mark, "paint a sun on a closed window" rather than opening the window to the sun that already is out there, shining
    Eos Amaterasu: Starting at the end can also come from being open to not knowing, not knowing how to cope
    Eos Amaterasu: so that there's a space open
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, nods
    Eos Amaterasu: it might not seem like anything positive
    Fefonz Quan: (So even at the end we won't know how to cope.... oh)
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe Fefonz
    Pema Pera: and recognizing my own tendencies to always want to close that space, that was a great learning adventure
    Pema Pera: and then to drop the not-knowing-how . . .
    Pema Pera: trusting that not-knowing
    Eos Amaterasu: trusting the end as not-knowing, as not being an "answer", but still a question, open to whatever happens and to response to that
    Eos Amaterasu: trusting the other person's not knowing, also
    Eos Amaterasu: that can give you confidence when someone else trusts your not knowing
    Pema Pera: that's perhaps the greatest gift to give someone
    Fael Illyar: to see what you are, first let go of what you must be.
    genesis Zhangsun: I like that "trusting the other person's ot knowing
    Eliza Madrigal: I think during the week I questioned myself ... motives, time, attention... noticed more of what I wasn't noticing
    Liza Deischer: hi Steven
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello, don;t mean to interrupt
    genesis Zhangsun: Hi Steve
    Liza Deischer: you're not
    Eliza Madrigal: and we dwelled a bit on humility, which was very inspiring
    Maxine Walden: not at all, Steve, the SF retreaters are sharing some of their experience...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: if one thinks they are at the end already, maybe they don't start :)
    Maxine Walden: why trust in the unknown if you think you Know everything?
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Fefonz Quan: maybe trust is also a way of knowing
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm
    Eos Amaterasu: I think trust could be seen as a highly experiential way of knowing:
    Maxine Walden: perhaps we non-retreaters are having a taste of the experience at the retreat: wondering 'what went on', not knowing but trying to be in the unknown...
    Eos Amaterasu: you're will to give into and respond into the situation, and trust its response back
    Wol Euler nods to Maxine
    Pema Pera: trust in the value of leaving open, of appreciating without "buying into"
    Eos Amaterasu: you don't trust your'self' or the other person's 'self': you trust their "end" (ahem... :-)
    Pema Pera: I can trust you (or myself) even without affirming the interpretation you (or I) offer
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed, Maxine, and yes leaving open... how to allow that
    genesis Zhangsun: if I were to look at the roots of this kind of deep trust in the situation, in others, I would say it is a sense of complete okayness, that there are really no grave mistakes, nothing is truly lost
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so interesting Genesis
    genesis Zhangsun: in that "ground" to lay back into, there is more room to let the situation go, out of your control
    genesis Zhangsun: or illusion of control
    genesis Zhangsun: to meet what is really there
    Fefonz Quan nods, this out of control is a tough cookie
    Eos Amaterasu: "out of control" usually connotes some "eyes closed" cquality
    Eos Amaterasu: here I think it's eyes wide open, so you see what the world is giving back
    Eos Amaterasu: that's reality check
    Fefonz Quan: for me it's like 'jumping from a plane' if you already asked Eos :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) yes and 'complete okayness' (what a great phrase) sounds like a given "Oh, of course" but seems to take reminders :)
    Eos Amaterasu: the only landing place for the plane is itself a cloud
    Eliza Madrigal: you know we talked about very practical aspects of playing as being, too... how we come to the computer, what we try not to be doing, etc.
    genesis Zhangsun: well jumping out of plane and finding strangely that you have landed on a cloud
    Fefonz Quan: yes, and yet it feels very different (at least according to my experience, tried that )
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Maxine Walden: Eliza, trying to come to the computer and PaB with focus and spaciousness?
    Wol Euler: yes, please say more
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, exactly Maxine... really be here when here
    Eliza Madrigal: really honor the time and space and those we're in company with
    Eos Amaterasu: In SL and in RL, PaB attention in both
    Wol Euler closes the e-mail window with a guilty expression.
    Eos Amaterasu: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: I felt at the time that I'd love to hear from everyone about that... so many of us and I wondered about our habits, etc
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe Wol :)
    Fael Illyar meeps to Wol happily!
    Wol Euler: in my defence, I usually don't do that :)
    Eliza Madrigal: No 'rules' you know... but how do we hold the space?
    Pema Pera tempted to send an email to Wol, to check :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: and each other?
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Fael Illyar: Wol, if you do make yourself a rule that you have to concentrate on these meetings when you're here, you'll find yourself coming less in a bit.
    Fefonz Quan nods to Eliza. I do think it makes a big difference
    Eliza Madrigal: its a way of appreciation, to just 'be' here when here
    Maxine Walden: trying not to get too distracted by these various levels of communication, such as IM vs PaB texting
    genesis Zhangsun: In way sometimes multi tasking does allow for a step back, and sometimes a step back in necessary to be there
    Maxine Walden: less distraction and maybe more space to just be...
    genesis Zhangsun: *is
    Eos Amaterasu: there's no real rules, which is hardest of all: "to live outside the law you must be honest"
    genesis Zhangsun: I think in general multitasking can be distraction, sometimes it can be a breather
    Eliza Madrigal nods to Fael and Gen too... sometimes unavoidable or helpful but the intention seems to matter?
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Eos
    genesis Zhangsun: yes I think so Eliza
    Maxine Walden: ah, I see the hour is up; I have to go, will look forward to posting the log
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Max
    Liza Deischer: Ara seems to be suffering from (dis)appearance too
    genesis Zhangsun: bye maxine
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Liza Deischer: hi Cerise
    Wol Euler: "Appreciate the Absence of Appearance as a Presentatoin by Being"?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Brittania :) Welcome. I've just given you a note about our group
    Eliza Madrigal smiles at Wol
    Pema Pera: I'll have to get going too -- thank you all for letting us share our experiences!
    Liza Deischer: bye Pema
    Bleu Oleander: thanks everyone
    Wol Euler: thank you, Pema, take care
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    Eos Amaterasu: likewise taking Wol's maxim to heart :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: And eos
    Fefonz Quan: bye Pema!
    Bleu Oleander: bfn all
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ya, Blue
    Agatha Macbeth: And Bleu
    Fael Illyar: have fun everyone :)
    Bleu Oleander: cu
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sry if someone might saw me in appearance mode it wasn´t shown to me in that way
    Wol Euler: bye bleu
    Liza Deischer: bye bleu
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eos
    Liza Deischer: taking the short cut :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fael Illyar waves happily.
    Fefonz Quan: bye Fael :)
    genesis Zhangsun: I am off too! Good night everyone.
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Gen :) Good to see you
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye all
    Scathach Rhiadra: Ciao Gen:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye everyone I'm off too, lots to things to think about from the session :))
    Agatha Macbeth: Night Cutie Fael :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Gen
    Wol Euler: bye gen, take care
    genesis Zhangsun: nice to see you all :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steve, Sharon :)
    Fefonz Quan: Night Gen, good to see you
    genesis Zhangsun: night Eliza
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice to see you gain gen
    Agatha Macbeth: And bye gen and SSL
    genesis Zhangsun: nice to see you too Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: bye SSL, Yaku
    Agatha Macbeth: Anybody left?
    Wol Euler: :)
    Liza Deischer: Hey!
    Fefonz Quan: most of them :)
    Wol Euler remembers an old song and smiles
    Agatha Macbeth waves
    Liza Deischer: stupid sounds those gestures :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Meep Meep ;P :p:P :p :P
    Wol Euler: heh, I thought that fael had snuck back in :)
    Fefonz Quan: it's like the road runner
    Wol Euler: -i
    Liza Deischer: okay Agatha, you proved it, you can even do ir worse :-)
    Liza Deischer: *it
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Liza Deischer: make it*
    Agatha Macbeth: And do it worse too :)
    Liza Deischer: okay :-)
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Fefonz Quan: I'll go to sleep too, good night all!
    Agatha Macbeth: C ya fonzie
    Wol Euler: bye fef, sleep well
    Liza Deischer: good night fonz
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Fefonz:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Fef :)
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Eliza Madrigal thinks she talked too much during the session... apologies...
    Agatha Macbeth: Never!
    Liza Deischer: not to me :-)
    Wol Euler: no.
    Eliza Madrigal: i'm just beginning to process the discussions :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Wol Euler: barely enough.
    Liza Deischer: I think there was a pretty good balance of experiences from different people
    Scathach Rhiadra: it sounded nice just having a small group
    Eliza Madrigal: well thanks, glad to hear that
    Agatha Macbeth: What's the average attendance then?
    Eliza Madrigal: Malta was far more, as was the first California retreat
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Wol Euler: malta was ... eight? nine?
    Eliza Madrigal: twice the size of this one even if we'd all made it actually...
    Agatha Macbeth: Erk
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, thought Malta was more
    Eliza Madrigal: One funny thing was that though we didn't do a silent day, I felt very quiet much of the time
    Agatha Macbeth: *You* felt quiet?
    Scathach Rhiadra: not so much chit-chat?
    Agatha Macbeth: Wow
    Wol Euler: you're right, we were ten.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes exactly
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Liza Deischer: need to get some work done
    Liza Deischer: thank you for sharing Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Liza :)
    Wol Euler: before midnight ;:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks
    Wol Euler: bye liza, work well
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Liza:)
    Agatha Macbeth: BFN Liza
    Liza Deischer: thanks :-)
    Wol Euler: there :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh!
    Wol Euler: oh?
    Agatha Macbeth: Eh?
    Eliza Madrigal: I know one thing I did want to mention too....
    Scathach Rhiadra: ?
    Wol Euler: ah
    Eliza Madrigal: that when I was finally home, though with the flu and very tired, I had a bit of a dip...
    Agatha Macbeth: What?
    Eliza Madrigal: like a discouragement
    Wol Euler nods
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Eliza Madrigal: and I thought about you Wol, and asked myself if this was retreat related
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Eliza Madrigal: reintegration
    Eliza Madrigal: It helped! Just asking that helped
    Wol Euler: the opposite of post-traumatic stress disorder :)
    Wol Euler: post-euphoric delight disorder :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehheh yes!
    Agatha Macbeth: Post retreat Disorder
    Wol Euler: or that
    Agatha Macbeth: PRD
    Eliza Madrigal: it was an appearance, in a way
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Eliza Madrigal: and because you'd talked about your experience, I had the question/distance to see it without being caught by it :)
    Wol Euler: I decided that mine was a pretty big clue about what was important, and what was missing, in my RL
    Eliza Madrigal: or at least it seems that way
    Agatha Macbeth: After the problems you had getting back, I'm not surprised you felt low
    Wol Euler: well, I'm very glad that it helped Eliza. That is exactly why I spoke about it.
    Eliza Madrigal: I felt overwhelmed by all that I needed to catch up on, at a time when I wanted to be writing actually... and here too :)
    Agatha Macbeth: CBE
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: cbe?
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't Be everywhere
    Wol Euler: heh
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    Wol Euler: nice
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: ;-)
    Agatha Macbeth grins like a Cheshire cat (but remains visible)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: matches your hair
    Agatha Macbeth: What does?
    Eliza Madrigal: cheshire cat :) well... cheshire cat on fire
    Agatha Macbeth: Didn't know they were red!
    Agatha Macbeth: You learn something every day...
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha.... okay... getting silly
    Agatha Macbeth: Me? Never!
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Agatha Macbeth: DAAAAAAAAAAMN!
    Eliza Madrigal: uh oh
    Wol Euler: huh, none of us, apparently.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: onigokko
    Wol Euler: stop
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must be off, great seeing you all, take care:)
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Scath. You too :))
    Agatha Macbeth: C ya Scath
    Wol Euler: bye scath, take care
    Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté
    Agatha Macbeth: Shalom
    Eliza Madrigal: Namaste Scath :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ohhhh dizzy
    Wol Euler: stop
    Eliza Madrigal: think my rl av needs to lay down :)
    Agatha Macbeth: That looks really good from above
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: alt-click on the ground to detach your camera from yourself, that helps the dizziness
    Wol Euler: oh, I just noticed your bindi. Nice!
    Agatha Macbeth: What's a bindi?
    Wol Euler: the Indian caste mark on the forehead
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Caste adrift
    Eliza Madrigal: evokes another kind of sight perhaps... av seeing as being
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: The eyes are cute too
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks... I do like the eyes. I don't look 'normal' to myself without them
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: I know what you mean
    Wol Euler: the details of apperance do come to feel like a part of us
    Agatha Macbeth: Mm
    Eliza Madrigal: yup yup :)... like they help us get settled here
    Eliza Madrigal: or settled in somehow... embedded enough to flow
    Wol Euler nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, really better go though. Thanks for playing :))
    Wol Euler: thank you for coming, eliza. Get better soon
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Liz, take care :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :::waves:::: Thanks Much :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeah, get well
    Wol Euler: I think our work here is done.
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Wol Euler: theme session? check. Onigokko? check.
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core