2010.05.03 07:00 - What are we the rest of the time?

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eden Haiku. The comments are by Eden Haiku who was joined by, in order of appearance : Storm, Lucinda, Eliza, Bleu, Yakuzza, Woolcinder Oxidor, Zen and Calvino. 

    An experiment in playing as Being

    Eden Haiku: Good morning Storm ;)
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning!
    Eden Haiku: How are you?
    Storm Nordwind: Fine thank you :) And you?
    Eden Haiku: I'm fine, thanks ;)
    Eden Haiku: I have been a bit sick but now my energy is back.
    It feels good!
    Storm Nordwind: Yes - there seems a lot of it about unfortunately
    Eden Haiku: I did an interesting experiment yesterday.
    Storm Nordwind: Oh? Please tell! :)
    Eden Haiku: I did as Eos who puts an alarm on his iPhone. I put one on my iPod Touch.
    Storm Nordwind: Ah! And how did it go?
    Eden Haiku: For every 15 minutes Saturday (that was Saturday rather).
    Eden Haiku: I had many chores to do, as I had not been able to do much for days...so I was doing house chores, laundry, things like that.
    Eden Haiku: Stopping every 15 minutes for at least 9 seconds, sometimes much more
    Eden Haiku: I had not done that so systematically before. I did it for about 12 hours.
    Storm Nordwind: And how did it feel?
    Eden Haiku: Incredibly comforting: like there was a thread throughout times and I could "recall" that silent place as soon as I stopped.
    Storm Nordwind: Fabulous! :))
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Lucinda
    Eden Haiku: I also noticed how my body was positioned in space.
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Lucinda.
    Storm Nordwind: A sense of poise?
    Eden Haiku: More like playing frozen statue...
    Lucinda Lavender: Good Morning Storm, Eden...
    Storm Nordwind remembers the artists dressed in blue or green playing statues on the streets of the city of Bath in England
    Eden Haiku: And then taking mental notes on my body, sensations, smells, sights...
    Eden Haiku: Oh yes, I love these street artists!
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning ELiza!
    Eden Haiku: Then I would write an haiku, after the dropping.
    Storm Nordwind: Every time Eden? Wow! :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Good Morning Storm! And Eden! And Lucinda! :))
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Eliza!
    Lucinda Lavender: Good Morning Eliza!
    Eden Haiku: Yes, It took me a long time to accomplish all my house chores but it was a wonderful Saturday!
    Storm Nordwind: haha!
    Storm Nordwind: Will we see those haiku somewhere sometime? [hint]
    (I did followed Storm's hint and posted the May Day haikus. You can read them here; http://bit.ly/9fBpGw)
    Eden Haiku: One of the haikus: "I'm feeling chilly/Smelling flowers and trees/Scents brought by the cold rain".
    Eliza Madrigal: MMM :)
    Eden Haiku: Oh maybe not. It was more in order to ground myself. :-)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Eden Haiku: Eliza and Lucinda, I'm sharing about an experiment in Playing as Being I tried on Saturday.
    Lucinda Lavender: How does it work?
    Eliza Madrigal: it sounds wonderful... am connecting the dots :)
    Eliza Madrigal: especially after having spent some time this morning 'practicing' and doing chores
    Eden Haiku: Well Eliza, that is exactly how it felt: connecting the dots. I set an alarm every 15 minutes for almost 12 hours.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, wow!
    Eden Haiku: And stopped for at least 9 seconds.
    Lucinda Lavender: Hmmm...:)
    Bleu Oleander: hi everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: that's wonderful
    Eden Haiku: First time I did it systematically and with an alarm.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :) Nice to see you
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Bleu.
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Bleu!
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Bleu :)
    Eden Haiku: What emerged from the experiment is that "I" keep coming back through time...


    Eliza Madrigal: ohh, how so? Please say more?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: morning everyone
    Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku!
    Storm Nordwind: Good morning Yakuzza!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ya :))
    Lucinda Lavender: Morning Yakuzza
    Eden Haiku: Kind of obvious but it felt nice to welcome myself every 15 minutes...
    Eden Haiku: I guess most days, I'm not even aware "I" am here…:)
    Eden Haiku: Hello Yaku! How are you ?
    Storm Nordwind: which prompts the question, "What are you the rest of the time?"
    Eliza Madrigal: Ohhhh, that's sweet! I didn't see that before .. like one's loved-one coming downstairs "Oh, hello!"
    Eden Haiku: So sorry for last Friday. Did voice chat finally worked Yakuzza?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, we were on zen´s place
    Yakuzza Lethecus: later it worked in the circle as well
    Storm Nordwind: SL was rather squirly that day
    Woolcinder Oxidor: hello all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bert,bleu,berts friend, zen and obviously i've been there
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey woolcinder
    Eden Haiku: Nice to hear that Yaku.
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Woolcinder, Welcome :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (ya, btw that voice session falls at a bad time for me but maybe during the summer will be easier to attend)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: :)...i recognize you from somewhere ancient..cant put my finger on it
    Eden Haiku: hello Woolcinder. Have you been here before?
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
    Eliza Madrigal wonders
    Woolcinder Oxidor: this will be my second and seven eighth time
    Storm Nordwind: A man of numbers it seems :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: or was it three quarters
    Eden Haiku: So you know about Play as Being, the fact that our conversations are recorded? I will be posting the log to the wiki so I need to make sure about that.
    Woolcinder Oxidor: numbers lie at the bottom of it all dont they
    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes i had already consented to Wol...my three fourth of a namesake
    Eden Haiku: Fine, thank you and welcome!
    Woolcinder Oxidor: thank you
    Eden Haiku: Would anyone like
    Eden Haiku: to suggest a topic for the next pause?

    Time travels

    Eliza Madrigal: hm, something with time?
    Eden Haiku: I love that Eliza!
    Woolcinder Oxidor: have you been reading a lot of time travel stories lately Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe Storm's question "Where are you the rest of the time?" hehe
    Eden Haiku: Yes, a great question...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not reading too many stories Wool, but yes maybe thinking of life stories and when they take place....
    Eliza Madrigal: where in time really
    Eliza Madrigal: where are we the rest of the time? hehe
    Woolcinder Oxidor: there are some solutions to equations of general relativity where time travel is possible
    Eden Haiku: I was wondering if you felt something like that too. Phewwwee
    Woolcinder Oxidor: one was discovered by Kurk Godel
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the propounder of the famous incompleteness theorem
    Bleu Oleander: (slips out quietly .... cu all later :) )
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :)
    Eden Haiku: bye Bleu.
    Eliza Madrigal contemplates the idea of complete incompleteness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: baye bleu
    Woolcinder Oxidor: in a non trivial arithmetical system some statements will always remain unproven
    Woolcinder Oxidor: is that a limitation of mathematics then
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice. We actually have been discussing remaining in open questioning a bit... being comfortable with not-knowing as a steadier place, in a way... so many parallels
    Eden Haiku: I guess I was not here really because I didn't see or heard Bleu when she arrived.(Who was the robot Eden who greeted her then? says the one who is editing the log). I suppose she did for she just left... Bleu, I'm sorry :) Have a nice trip to New York if I don't see you before tomorrow ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) I was surprised she popped in, prob packing and such


    Yakuzza Lethecus: welcome zen
    Zen Arado: Hi all
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Eden Haiku: Welcome Zen ;)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: hello Zen
    Lucinda Lavender: I seem to lack a certain ability to stay connected today. Hi Zen.
    Storm Nordwind: That was interesting. Contemplating what we'd agreed for the break... In order to consider "where I might be the rest of the time", I had to stop being here and now (in order to relive it). Therefore I dropped that question and came back to here and now! :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles!
    Eliza Madrigal: like unexpected dropping, Lucinda :) Every few minutes you wander off and have to re-new :)
    Eden Haiku: Being with Storm's question, I travelled to another time;)
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Eden Haiku: To the first time I did an intensive in meditation.
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh?
    Eden Haiku: Three days , about 8 hours a day, meditating I was so scared it was going to be difficult.
    Eliza Madrigal: oh my 8 hrs a day
    Eden Haiku: But, it was amazingly comfortable, reassuring.
    Woolcinder Oxidor: that should leave you like the day you were born
    Eden Haiku: Except for the knees...
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Eden Haiku: I kept shifting body position.
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I imagine that it reassures you or changes ideas about about 'time' a bit?
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the whirling derveshes do it standing...they dance in circles
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Lucinda Lavender: I must go now on purpose...good day to all.
    Eden Haiku: But being with myself was very nice. I got hooked to the practice for nine years.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care lucinda
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Lucinda :)
    Eden Haiku: Bye Lucinda.
    Storm Nordwind waves
    Woolcinder Oxidor: bye Lucinda
    Eliza Madrigal: Is that the self you feel you see in the bells when you set the timer?
    Zen Arado: bye Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: bye!
    Eden Haiku: So this little experiment I did Saturday with Playing as Being was reconnecting me with that place.
    Eden Haiku: Yes, different though. More a place than a self really.
    Eden Haiku: Like a mother's womb...
    Eliza Madrigal: oceanic?
    Eden Haiku: More like in a dark, safe place.
    Eliza Madrigal: how wonderful :)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: do you also encounter visions
    Woolcinder Oxidor: etheral yet real
    Eden Haiku: No, it was very connected to the body.
    Eden Haiku: The rest of the time, I'm floating through visions I guess...
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: my pause was similar I *think*
    Eden Haiku: Collective hallucinations, news, media, beliefs...
    Eden Haiku: say more Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: ... I considered where I seem to 'go' outside of the bell... and that all that time, is actually in the bell too...
    Eden Haiku: In the bell time too?
    Eliza Madrigal: even all the collective hallucinations I guess :)
    Eden Haiku: I would like to hear more Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: hm...
    Eden Haiku: Non-aware time embedded in aware time?
    Eden Haiku: That is very badly said...
    Eliza Madrigal: nothing left out of 'attentiveness' in a way...
    Woolcinder Oxidor: but are you aware of the non awareness
    Eliza Madrigal: Not badly said! Its hard to describe!
    Eliza Madrigal: Exactly Wool... when one is seeing the non-awareness, not so non-aware
    Eden Haiku: Ah like if we start at the end, we are already awakaned even in the midst of our worst delusions?
    Eliza Madrigal smiles @ Eden... hadn't even connected that
    Eden Haiku: Was talking about my sentence Eliza, not yours :)

    Eliza Madrigal: hehe, I know, and I was reassuring us both :)))
    Eden Haiku: (((ELiza)))


    What does your practice asks of you?


    Woolcinder Oxidor has a very funny answer to my question and I considered for a while using "to experience anything less grammatical" as a title but then, Zen brings a question we are going to discuss to a certain length.

    Eden Haiku: I missed you !
    Eliza Madrigal: (((Eden)) Thank you ::beams:::
    Woolcinder Oxidor: it should take too much endeavour to be totally utterly unaware...its called the annihilation 'in' annihilation
    Eden Haiku: Would you like to share what you experienced during the pause Wool?
    Eden Haiku: Others?
    Woolcinder Oxidor: i was too busy trying to draft that sentence to experience anything less grammatical
    Eden Haiku: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Eden Haiku: It happens to me a lot too ;)
    Zen Arado: I was thinking about one of the practices we did yesterday
    Zen Arado: I was at an all day Zen meeting
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice :)
    Eden Haiku: "Anything less grammatical" could make a nice title for the log…:)
    Eden Haiku: Oh yes Zen?
    Zen Arado: we had to sit opposite someone and keep asking 'what does your practice ask of you?
    Eden Haiku: Oh!
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, keep asking? over and over?
    Zen Arado: yes - in a neutral, non judgemental way
    Eden Haiku: What did you learn?
    Zen Arado: taking it in turn
    Zen Arado: it makes me feel uncomfortable
    Eliza Madrigal: to ask, or to look at the answer?
    Zen Arado: just doing it
    Woolcinder Oxidor: i wonder how the person feels who asks the question...right when he is asking it
    Eden Haiku: What does your practice ask of you Zen? ;-)
    Zen Arado: feel uncomfortable again :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose the best sort of practices make us uncomfortable at first... challenge us... like koans
    Eden Haiku: It feels a bit inquisitive when asking Wool. Try it!
    Woolcinder Oxidor: how did that make you feel Eden..asking the question (He read my mind!)
    Zen Arado: it's the sharing aspect that is difficult
    Storm Nordwind wonders if it just says, "Stop anthropomorphizing me and just do it!" :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eden Haiku: What?
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, "if your practice was a tree, what kind of tree would it be?
    Woolcinder Oxidor: or it could be asked more reflectively...like one was asking oneself rather then the other
    Zen Arado: yes - you say things like - I need to have more self discipline
    Zen Arado: true Wool
    Eden Haiku: Your parctice calls for more self-discipline?
    Storm Nordwind: ("anthropomorphizing" is giving non-human and even abstract ideas a human entity)
    Zen Arado: I think most could say that ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Mine would use the word 'refinement'
    Eliza Madrigal: :-)
    Eden Haiku: Yes I know Storm, I just could not apply to this situation. But the tree example helped :)
    Zen Arado: maybe the question turns things around too
    Eliza Madrigal: "take me out once in a while" "Let me socialize a bit"
    Zen Arado: we think about what we want from our practice
    Eden Haiku: When I did the Kalachakra empowerment in India in 2006, I made this vow of taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, the Sangha twice a day, ringing a bell.
    Woolcinder Oxidor: it may not be anthropomorphic at all...but the exact opposite of it
    Eden Haiku: I stopped doing it while we were moving almost a year ago.
    Eden Haiku: And I started again this morning, not remembering the mantras so well..
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Thats so nice, Eden :)
    Storm Nordwind: Wonderful!
    Eden Haiku: But it felt ok: the vow was just suspended until the time was ripe again.
    Zen Arado: so you feel you need to do it
    Storm Nordwind: It can be easy to forget samaya is a support rather than a penance! :)
    Eden Haiku: I'm very much a good mother with myself in these matters ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: so that time, that you were 'not' doing the daily practice, is not left out
    Zen Arado: in Zen they talk about having a grandmotherly attitude
    Eden Haiku: Yes, I felt some pangs of guilt for not feeling like doing it (even when travelling in India, and being in His Holiness teachings, I did not feel like doing it…).
    Woolcinder Oxidor: sometimes they ask you to go back to the source to fill your cup
    Eden Haiku: But this morning, I felt like it. So I did.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Simple
    Zen Arado: is discipline important in our practice?
    Eden Haiku: That is the kind of discipline I have with writing too.
    Zen Arado: self discipline I mean
    Eden Haiku: But it is not so good with exercising ;-)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: do we seek what we find or do we find what we seek
    Woolcinder Oxidor: maybe its a question of one thing leading to the other
    Eliza Madrigal: yes and about 'energy' rather than will-power? Intentions?
    Eden Haiku: Intentions is a much softer way to handle ourselves I find yes Eliza...
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the will of the Other and the will of the self
    Eden Haiku: Do you feel discipline as important in Play as Being Zen?
    Zen Arado: I think it needs some
    Eliza Madrigal: Today I am thinking a lot about Avilokitesvara's thousand arms... how 'effective' due to pure intention / compassion
    Zen Arado: yes
    Eden Haiku: In order to fly, birds have to open and close their wings.


    Playing as Japanese

    The conversation unfolds on a different level and —are we somehow connecting with Pema who must have arrived in Japan by now? — we start playing with haikus, onigokkos and yakuzzas.


    Woolcinder Oxidor: if you want to come up with some good poetry it must come from the heart but it needs rhyme too
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Maybe we need to structure our practice a while then let it go a while...
    Zen Arado: middle way between strictness and self indulgence I guess
    Eden Haiku: Yes, you are right Zen, the middle way, always the middle way.
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: the answer to all the questions :)
    Eden Haiku: Do you write poetry yourself Wool?
    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes sometimes
    Woolcinder Oxidor: i wrote once for some one here
    Woolcinder Oxidor: a very strange coincidence
    Woolcinder Oxidor: i had her name riddled in it
    Eden Haiku: Storm, Eliza, Zen and I share haikus sometimes..Would you like to try?
    Eden Haiku: Yakuzza would you be game for an haiku game?
    Eliza Madrigal: seems a nice gesture Wool; hope she liked it/noticed :)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: i dont know how it works
    Storm Nordwind will have to be game on another day...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: haiku game ? :)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: we were and remain strangers :)
    Eden Haiku: 5 syllables/7 syllables/5 syllables ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice to see you Storm :)
    Zen Arado: ha I found some poems of Ikkyu today
    Zen Arado: bye Storm
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye storm
    Storm Nordwind: Bye for now everyone. Thank you for a most pleasant start to the morning :))
    Eden Haiku: Waving to Storm!
    Eliza Madrigal: Indeed :)
    Eliza Madrigal enjoys Storm's manners
    Zen Arado: Ikkyu is rather rude
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cal :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello!
    Zen Arado: Hi Cal:)
    Eden Haiku: Yes, Storm is always so charming! Good British manners I suppose :)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: hello Cal
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel out of haiku practice...
    Eden Haiku: Good morning orange Calvino.
    Eliza Madrigal: have gone to twitter several times to no avail
    Calvino Rabeni: Eden, how are you ?
    Eden Haiku: Another time then Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder what haiku practice is asking of me :))))
    Zen Arado: you can't force them Eliza - I think
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eden Haiku: I wonder what being "guardian on call" asks of me ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Or maybe just to jump in again...
    Eliza Madrigal: let it be imperfect, incomplete
    Woolcinder Oxidor: we often have matches of forced poetry
    Zen Arado: oh?
    Eden Haiku: Yes, you are so brave Eliza!
    Zen Arado: but if it comes from the heart...
    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes usually a verse is chosen to build upon
    Eliza Madrigal: (it will be anyway) "There is a crack in everything... how the light gets in..."
    Eden Haiku: Maybe a little onigokko to shape up before we haiku?
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the heart does always need something to build upon...
    Zen Arado: true too I guess
    Woolcinder Oxidor: and so to every heart according to its own likings
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: ::::loosens up::::
    Calvino Rabeni: One crack, running through everything
    Woolcinder Oxidor: as virginia woolf said...a true masterpiece usually has the works of generations behind it
    Zen Arado: 'the heart of man is desperately wicked'.....
    Calvino Rabeni: Uniting all
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eden Haiku: onigokko
    Eliza Madrigal: onigokko
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Woolcinder Oxidor: oops what was that
    Eliza Madrigal: Eden and I are trigger tuned :)


    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
    Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
    Woolcinder Oxidor: so much for the ninety seconds
    Eden Haiku: stop
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, Eden!
    Woolcinder Oxidor: eden is in overdrive
    Zen Arado: too much energy :)
    Eden Haiku: Could not stop  :-) Not good at the middle way as you see Zen...
    Eliza Madrigal: Hey, did you know there is a game called octopus tag? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tag_(game)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eden Haiku: Always interested in games...
    Zen Arado: me neither Eden
    Eliza Madrigal:http://www.indopedia.org/Onigokko.html
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd never thought to google the word
    Calvino Rabeni: What are the games you hunger for, Eden?
    Eden Haiku: We have an octopus mind this morning...
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Zen Arado: ah now I know that the tail was
    Eden Haiku: So shall we play haikus?
    Eliza Madrigal: What asks your practice/ Now I know what the tail was/ pure onigokko
    Eden Haiku: Wow!
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: great
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eden Haiku: I love all haikus/Even the bad ones I write/ They make me laugh loud
    Eliza Madrigal: !! Hahah
    Zen Arado: I have a blank mind / might be best for haiku / or maybe not
    Woolcinder Oxidor: was the above a haiku
    Eden Haiku: I love the jumping in and allowing myself to be a bad writer.
    Zen Arado: don't have to be strict about syllable numbers
    Eden Haiku: You need to be like that when you are a writer...
    Yakuzza Lethecus is going to have dinner, leaving the avatar alone, take care everyone if i am not back in time
    Eliza Madrigal imagines a book "Fun with Bad Writing"
    Woolcinder Oxidor:one for sorrow two for joy three for being a big bad boy
    Eliza Madrigal: Enjoy, Ya :)
    Zen Arado: bye Ya
    Eden Haiku: Oh, ok Zen (Yaku was having dinner, not Zen, where was I?). So you stay with us in spirit?
    Calvino Rabeni: My first memory / of Eden is purely of / spirit of haiku
    Zen Arado: hope so
    Eden Haiku: smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, lovely


    A cyberpunk sits at some gate waiting

    Eden Haiku: (who was unaware she was talking to an absent avatar, even though Yakuzza had said was enjoying his dinner afk…Where was she?)  Yakuzza, I stumbled upon your name in reading a cyberpunk novel yesterday.
    Zen Arado: Eden on her cushion / me butting in with oftimes questions / and totally irrelevant
    Eliza Madrigal stops to admire Eden's literary range
    Eden Haiku: Wanted to google Yakuzza but didn't yet.
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni as well, wonders what happens when one eats of the Lethecus plant
    Eden Haiku: Heard about it on Twitter Eliza...
    Eden Haiku: Just read a sample on Kindle for iPOd.
    Woolcinder Oxidor: you certainly never speak afterwards
    Eden Haiku: It seems "Neuromancer" was a cult novel. It is incredibly good.
    Zen Arado: reading Lee child atm
    Zen Arado: ever read him?
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen plays with numbers/ Writes haikus that won't be tamed/ We will forgive him :)
    Eden Haiku: Think I'm going to buy it but maybe I will wait for iPad...
    Woolcinder Oxidor: i was watching surrogates before coming here
    Eden Haiku: Surrogates Wool?
    Calvino Rabeni: A man with tattoos and missing half the little finger - may be taken as a sign of the yakuzza
    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes the movie
    Eden Haiku: googling now, intrigued...
    Woolcinder Oxidor: it about a time when people have robots ...very charming wons....much like the av's here....doing there work for them
    Eden Haiku: A bandit Yaku?
    Zen Arado: reading about Reacher / the tough ex military policeman / with no attachments
    Calvino Rabeni: Who perhaps served as a model for the outcaste group in "Caprica" sf series also?
    Eden Haiku: Have been asking my little brother (who is an ingeneer) to create a robot for house chores for years...
    Eliza Madrigal: :) but then you couldn't have such interesting pab practice sessions Eden.. need the chores :)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: some japanese company already came up with an andrioid that looks very familiar to humans
    Zen Arado:little house robot / is always depressed / doing Edens chores
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
    Eden Haiku: Cyberpunk haikus/ A new genre with our Yaku/ As the main character
    Eliza Madrigal:Time, to get going/ Avilokitesvara/ Never out of reach
    Woolcinder Oxidor: it would be a very charming life if one was to live by the three laws of robotics
    Zen Arado: bye Eliza:)
    Eden Haiku: Wow, that is an elegant exit Eliza!
    Woolcinder Oxidor: bye Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: _/!\_ Thank you Eden, everyone, for a lovely session :))
    Zen Arado: aviloketisvara great haiku word

    Calvino Rabeni: my little android / frees my time for art and play / I ignore the dust
    Eliza Madrigal: Bfn :) hehe... great haikus
    Zen Arado: Yaku Yaku haiku writer / will never be alone / if he writes good ones
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the fountain of life springs forth....mocking the rest
    Eden Haiku: Our friend Yakuzza/ Avalokiteshvara/Playing as Being (First verse one syllable too long: "Our friend  Yaku" would be better)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eden Haiku: Wool, would you remind us the 3 laws of robotics?
    Woolcinder Oxidor: they were propounded by the legendary Isaac Asimov
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the founder of the word robotics
    Eden Haiku: yes
    Woolcinder Oxidor: they go something like this
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the 1st law...a robot must never harm a human being or through inaction allow a human to be harmed
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the 2nd...a robot must obey all orders as long as they do not conflict with the first law
    Woolcinder Oxidor: and the 3rd a robot must always protect its own existance..as long as that does not interferes with the 1 st and 2nd law
    Zen Arado: day after day after day / alone on the hill in pab / the fool writes his haiku
    Zen Arado: remember from my teens....
    Eden Haiku: Obeying orders doesn't sound like charming life to me :)
    Zen Arado: Isaac Asimov I mean
    Woolcinder Oxidor: all asimov stories were subtle itirations on the various permutaions of these laws
    Zen Arado: they help protect humans if robots become too powerful
    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes but eventually it all back fired
    Woolcinder Oxidor: as happens in the movie i robot
    Zen Arado: oh?
    Woolcinder Oxidor: the robot inferred a zeroeth law ....
    Calvino Rabeni: each one turns a crank / and sits at some gate waiting / for his master's voice
    Woolcinder Oxidor: a robot must never harm humanity and through.......
    Woolcinder Oxidor: and as it saw humanity killing itself ...it took action
    Woolcinder Oxidor: taking everything in its own hand...having us live more or less like slaves to keep us from harming each others
    Eden Haiku: Zen is not alone/We are many fools in here/Stumbling down the hill ;)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: most electronic devices actually still exhibit these rules in away
    Eden Haiku: Nice haiku Calvino ;)
    Zen Arado: remembers Hal in 2001 / jeopardizing the mission Dave / have to keep you out
    Woolcinder Oxidor: if you recall....this device must conform to part .....to the FCC rules...in that it is subject to the following limitations……etc etc
    Woolcinder Oxidor: i think its part 15 of the FCC rules
    Zen Arado: it will become important as AI develops
    Zen Arado: or maybe we have false fears
    Calvino Rabeni: A classic book name - instantly putting its philosophical conundrum in the reader's face - "I, Robot"
    Zen Arado: if Artificial emotions develop though.....
    Calvino Rabeni: After that, it almost not necessary to read the text :)
    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes having almost your namesake....Susan Calvin
    Woolcinder Oxidor: she was a robo psychologist
    Zen Arado: there is a book called #I Avatar'
    Zen Arado: about identity of avis in SL
    Zen Arado: must get it sometime
    Eden Haiku: Say the word "cyberpunk" and the guys get carried away ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: I, Robot?
    Calvino Rabeni: Or not, as the case may be
    Zen Arado: http://www.amazon.com/Avatar-Culture.../dp/0321533399
    Zen Arado: I better go and make my dinner
    Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
    Woolcinder Oxidor: yes so must i...
    Zen Arado: it was fun:)
    Calvino Rabeni: In the steampunk tradition, I have a broken pipe to attend to
    Zen Arado: bye
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Zen
    Woolcinder Oxidor: nice being here all
    Eden Haiku: Thnaks for the link Zen, the book looks interesting...
    Woolcinder Oxidor: Good Bye


    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah everyone ist still
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah not everyone
    Eden Haiku: Welcome back Yaku.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: thx :)
    Eden Haiku: Were you aware you became the character of a new genre: the cyberpunk haiku?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not really :)
    Eden Haiku: Are you settling back from your trip in Thailand Calvino?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but there are plenty yakuza's out there
    Eden Haiku: You will discover that in the log Yaku...;)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I am settling, Eden
    Eden Haiku: Just got the meaning of "Lethecus" in Calvino"s haiku...
    Calvino Rabeni: A nice vacant house is delicious, if just for now
    Calvino Rabeni: I assumed if you eat if it, it confers a gift of volubility
    Eden Haiku: Lethecus does mean something apart from being Yaku's last name?
    Calvino Rabeni: PaB as herb garden, we might sometime replace the pool with a plot of dark rich soil (I almost slipped and wrote "soul")
    Eden Haiku: Dark rich soul yes ;)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i haven't found a meaning but it sounded ,,latin,greek" somehow so since i was looking for phil i thought that might fit
    Calvino Rabeni: Yakuzza is a japanese film genre also, I always assumed you were a fan, but never actually asked
    Eden Haiku: What does the 'Cultivator' title means Calvino?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: basicly yakuza's are the japanese mafia so i choose this name in different games and also SL when i logged in the first time, i didn't know that i would be longer in here than an afternoon :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, it comes with playasbeing, I assumed it means, culivator of being, soul, practices, groups of dialogue, and so forth
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nicely put.
    Eden Haiku:Thanks.
    Calvino Rabeni: And to throw a name into the circle:
    Calvino Rabeni: http://cinematreasures.org/theater/12527/
    Calvino Rabeni: They always had a double bill, one samurai "feacha" and one yakuzza "feacha"
    Calvino Rabeni: An early pop culture crossroads
    Yakuzza Lethecus: did you watch akira kurusawa movies ?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes I think all, and also the B-grade movies with Toshiro Mifune
    Calvino Rabeni: There was one where he was a hobo
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that whom they made a daimio ?
    Eden Haiku: Have a nice day both/ Will have to leave on next bell/And will take the log
    Calvino Rabeni: He would join work camps - basically slave camps building railroad - the money was sent to his family, then he would escape in a hail of bullets
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care eden
    Calvino Rabeni: Except he came back to save the old man - you might know that generic old man character in japanese cinema - I forget the actor's name
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye Eden!Thanks for your strings of pearls
    Eden Haiku: Bye!
    Calvino Rabeni: Luckily the PaB "log" does not head down a river at night for points unknown
    Yakuzza Lethecus wonders


    Calvino Rabeni: After Thailand I attended a rural mountain retreat far from the electric grid, with a river rushing through, where you could wander at night among hot pools which might be inhabited by persons unseen and unknown
    Calvino Rabeni: Part of the gesture of balance - now western civ seems calm and well-arranged
    Calvino Rabeni: And Yaku, did your chat happy hour happen, and how was it?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, it's in voice and yes it happened twice so far
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the main issue is to have a non logged session in voice at a specific date and time during the week
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's so hard to ,,accidentally" meet more then 1-2 ppl in the village's good to talk more freely, *looking at the recorder :)*
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it really provides more depth to the ppl as i see it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: you see in the tone of their voice the motivation they have towards specific topics
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni wonders, if at any time, the group broke out in a round of song
    Calvino Rabeni: If such were possible
    Calvino Rabeni: Is there a tradition of drinking songs in your cultural background?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, there are some but i am not that involved in my own culture :P
    Calvino Rabeni: Right...
    Calvino Rabeni: In mine, it takes a special place or circumstance to happen
    Calvino Rabeni: And as such is quite rare
    Calvino Rabeni: I've been observing the settings for its liklihood
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i think about different things i should surround myself with in the future singing might even be part of it, definetily to learn at least one instrument better then just having it standing around :P
    Yakuzza Lethecus: actually i see that i have the same associations even when i put out my guitar the same thoughts which kind of hinder me to ,,just do stuff"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: dropping actually is the idea of breaking elaborated circles
    Calvino Rabeni: Thoughts which hinder - yes, one of them is - there's a preestablished form that must be served sufficiently well
    Calvino Rabeni: One observation I had from Thailand in that regard



    A blessing in the wind in Thailand

    Calvino Rabeni: there's a temple in Bangkok on a small mountain, with a double spiral staircase leading to the top
    Calvino Rabeni: with loudspeakers spaced in the stone railing of the stairs, and a voice talking, chanting, saying things from all those speakers
    Calvino Rabeni: singing, chanting - etc. Using my western concepts, I assumed it to be a recording, even somewhat tacky
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i sometimes wonder about all the technical stuff in temples
    Calvino Rabeni: however I reached the top, and the loudspeaker voice cleared its throat, and just then I saw there was a monk who was intoning blessings to a supplicant, with a microphone, and I realized it had been "live" - both of those happened at the same time
    Calvino Rabeni: plus the dropping of my cultural assumption, and the gaining of a question
    Calvino Rabeni: which was, that the answer to the private prayer was being broadcast from the top of a mountain, in the center of a great city, on a hill of ancient crypts
    Calvino Rabeni: .... in other words, not at all as it had first seemed
    Calvino Rabeni: Technology as an amplifier of presence, not of recorded patterns
    Calvino Rabeni: I had not the courage to sit before the monk, and ask my question, and have all Bangkok hear the answer or blessing in the wind
    Calvino Rabeni: although I considered it somewhat seriously
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, technology like second life as an connection node for the thoughs on being
    Calvino Rabeni: Right, exactly !
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe, did he speak english ?
    Calvino Rabeni: No only Thai
    Calvino Rabeni: I could have managed however.
    Calvino Rabeni: It
    Calvino Rabeni: is a kind of moral lapse on my part, I suppose, though maybe a minor one
    Calvino Rabeni: It made me reflect on Will
    Yakuzza Lethecus: anyway, i need a nap and do something before i will be back here in 2 hrs for liza's session
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye for now, take care
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, thanks for reminding me of that - I'm not quite up on SL time patterns yet
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye for now :) 
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