2010.05.06 19:00 - The Learning of Ouch

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Paradise. The comments are by Calvino, Eliza, Jen, Archmage, Stevenaia 

       

        Paradise Tennant: hiya cal :) how are you tonight :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Well thanks - was a good day. How about yourself?
        Paradise Tennant: also very well ... :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Highlights of the day? :)
        Paradise Tennant: just had a nice curry .. sipping a beer .. happy
        it is thursday :)
        Paradise Tennant: busy busy work day :)
        Paradise Tennant: and you :)
        Calvino Rabeni: I'm in my rural location. Went for the first spring
        hike - followed some horse prints, ate some wild plants, noticed how
        the air smells different when it is passing over a saddle land form :)
        Paradise Tennant: lol sigh ..yours was the much better day :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Well, I'm broke! :))
        Paradise Tennant: life conundrum .. when you have time .no money
        ..when you have money ..no time :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Isn't that he usual. I was thinking of work, for
        that reason, ambivalently
        Paradise Tennant: hmm highly over rated
        Paradise Tennant: listened to a great talk by gil fronsdal .. over
        hte weekend ..he spoke of sacred leisure
        Paradise Tennant: how becoming spacious .. aware .. required time to
        do nothing :)
        Calvino Rabeni: When I'm in the office - in the past, no doubt again
        someday - I hope the hter times have not slipped from my sense of things
        Paradise Tennant: not to do !
        --BELL--
        Calvino Rabeni: I tried a new thing while hiking - a little app on
        my phone, makes the sound of the temple bell every 15 minutes to
        remind me to look around and reach for the totality of what surrounds
        Paradise Tennant: ahh you have an iphone !
        Paradise Tennant: use to do that with my watch
        Calvino Rabeni: It is Google phone. The app is called Zen TImer
        Paradise Tennant: ahh kk
        Calvino Rabeni: I'm resistant to tech in that regard - prefer the
        "real bells"
        Paradise Tennant: yes
        Calvino Rabeni: But who then will ring it :)
        Paradise Tennant: found that
        Calvino Rabeni: that is part of why they work as well as they do
        Paradise Tennant: if you listen there is always someone who will ring :)
        Calvino Rabeni: That's a nice thing too
        Paradise Tennant: smiles
        Calvino Rabeni: Once in a while it's a leaf-blower :)
        Paradise Tennant: lol
        Calvino Rabeni: But more often, something line a woodpecker with a
        bright red head
        Calvino Rabeni: Or a big bird swooping, making a sound of wind with
        its wings
        Paradise Tennant: even better than a bell
        Paradise Tennant: the rhythm of life .. plays out in so many patterns
        Calvino Rabeni: Although traveling, I got to like barking dogs and
        crowing roosters
        Archmage Atlantis: barking dogs protect
        Paradise Tennant: smiles
        Calvino Rabeni: Hello Archmage
        Paradise Tennant: they are early risers
        Paradise Tennant: hiya arch :)
        Calvino Rabeni: The non-neurotic dogs live around relaxed people
        Calvino Rabeni: they just warn a little every now and then about
        anything unusual
        Calvino Rabeni: like when my phone recorded bell went off today,
        Paradise Tennant: yes mine is an arrival and departure barker
        Calvino Rabeni: some dog somewhere, did one "hey!" bark
        Calvino Rabeni: because it was odd to her
        Archmage Atlantis: crowing roosters proclaim new life\
        Paradise Tennant: smiles
        Paradise Tennant: how have you been arch .. been I while since I
        have seen you :)
        Calvino Rabeni: There was a wild turkey nearby yesterday when I was
        fixing an irrigation pipe
        Archmage Atlantis: Yo p Tp
        Archmage Atlantis: sprru cat meeds jisgs
        --BELL--
        Archmage Atlantis: To me that is an pmen,
        Paradise Tennant: smilex
        Archmage Atlantis: pet is diffocu;t tp tu[
        Paradise Tennant: nods
        Archmage Atlantis: Bem wamted tje wild turkey to be th e US national
        symbol
        Archmage Atlantis: Dprry. sto;; cat de,amded
        Paradise Tennant: friendlier than an eagle :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, instead of the eagle, the turkey as the
        national bird
        Archmage Atlantis: Why did we have to choose
        Archmage Atlantis: Why only one path
        Calvino Rabeni: The states all have their own something or others
        Archmage Atlantis: Yes....true
        Archmage Atlantis: Butt we are seen by others as that choice
        Calvino Rabeni: I like the Korean flag
        Calvino Rabeni: Funny how many countries though chose red white blue
        for their flag colors
        --BELL--
        Archmage Atlantis: I'd like Nimbus to get his butt hair away from my
        nose
        Calvino Rabeni: Are some of your messages typed by Nimbus?
        Paradise Tennant: was thinking the exact sayem thought .. sort of
        e.e. cummings !
        Archmage Atlantis: perhaps. Cal .......like e e cummings and archie
        Calvino Rabeni: or the poet turned roach, "archie", known for no caps
        Calvino Rabeni: Right
        Calvino Rabeni: no punctuation
        Calvino Rabeni: stream of consciousness
        Calvino Rabeni: zen of the depression era
        Archmage Atlantis: Nimbus is real......I am not sure of archie
        Calvino Rabeni: one of achie's rants (remember he was a free verse
        poet reincarnated as a cockroach)
        Calvino Rabeni: i m disappointed in this roach poison down in the
        furnace room
        Calvino Rabeni: i just dont get the kick from it i used to get
        Archmage Atlantis: O my
        Paradise Tennant: my dog .. never types far perfers voice .. :)
        Archmage Atlantis: Nim usually does too
        Calvino Rabeni: perhaps a dose of affirmative action is needed for
        the dog's voice to be heard more - I think I may have only heard a
        comment or two in all this time
        Archmage Atlantis: But he knows when climbing on me works better
        Calvino Rabeni: Does he have a silver lining?
        Archmage Atlantis: He is a snow bengal, 19 yo, so I suppose so Cal
        Paradise Tennant: cheese works best .. :)
        Paradise Tennant: ahh sounds like a handsome cat!
        Calvino Rabeni: Is Nimbus on Facebook or suchlike places?
        Archmage Atlantis: Cheese....omg.......I think he heard you
        Paradise Tennant: lol
        Archmage Atlantis: No, Status and Cirrua are
        Archmage Atlantis: &====*Cirrus
        Paradise Tennant: smiles :)
        Archmage Atlantis: In the divorce, Nimbus came with me
        Paradise Tennant: ouch
        Archmage Atlantis: yea
        --BELL--
        Archmage Atlantis: but ouch is part of life
        Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking that same thing today while hiking
        Paradise Tennant: yes ouch is part of life
        Calvino Rabeni: So is Purrr, and "rrroww!!"
        Paradise Tennant: lol
        Paradise Tennant: yes!
        Paradise Tennant: one of life's best parts !
        Calvino Rabeni: Have you seen car stickers - maybe in this area? One
        says - "Wag more - bark less"
        Paradise Tennant: catchy and wise to boot :)
        Paradise Tennant: welcome Jen :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Than that got id'd with male drivers, and one cam
        out for the femailes:
        Jen Dix: hi :)
        Calvino Rabeni: "Purr more, hiss less"
        Paradise Tennant: lol
        Archmage Atlantis: True. Cal... still ouch comes no matter.....Purr
        and meow require some commitment
        Calvino Rabeni: There'a always a reward for putting camera close to
        Arch, which is the sounds made by Koya
        Paradise Tennant: smiles
        Calvino Rabeni: Well, ouch can be done with dignity
        Paradise Tennant: yes and without ..there is flow to both
        Archmage Atlantis: I respectively disagree, Cal, dignity destroys
        the learning of ouch
        Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps I meant something like, sincerity
        Calvino Rabeni: Whatever it is, enhances "ouch"
        Paradise Tennant: just a notecard on what we do here jen ..
        basically sit around and talk .. about all manner of perception and
        experience :)
        Calvino Rabeni: What would that be?
        Paradise Tennant: the learning of ouch
        Jen Dix: thanks paradise. only that was a note about a club ;)
        Paradise Tennant: hmm powerful phrase there arch :)
        Paradise Tennant: lol
        Paradise Tennant: oh no
        Paradise Tennant: there we go ..
        Paradise Tennant: sorry very messy inventory ..
        Paradise Tennant: did not realize I had more than one notecard with
        V1:3 on it :)
        Paradise Tennant: there are four sessions a day usually about an
        hour long
        Paradise Tennant: each is hosted by a guardian
        Paradise Tennant: and the sessions are recorded and available on a
        web page
        Archmage Atlantis: Time to go, BlessingsandNamaste
        Paradise Tennant: do you have any objection to having your
        conversation recorded ?
        Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
        Calvino Rabeni: Archmage
        Paradise Tennant: namaste arch .. scruffy to nimbus :)
        Jen Dix: if that question was to me, I haven't been moved to say
        much yet. but I'm happy to take responsibility for my comments
        Paradise Tennant: smiles ok .. I suspect you will like this group..
        Jen Dix: :)
        --BELL--
        Paradise Tennant: a colleciton of interesting creative people :)
        Jen Dix: I was just reading about creative mindwandering recently
        Calvino Rabeni: That sounds interesting
        Paradise Tennant: wow that is just a perfect topic !
        Jen Dix: how you need to open up time for mental play, so to speak,
        in order to have insights
        Jen Dix: but we have so many ways to fill time now that are not all
        that creative
        Jen Dix: checking email at the bus stop and that sort of thing
        Calvino Rabeni: There is a little recognition at large - I saw a car
        sticker "Imagination - Gateway to Reality" which I felt in the right
        direction
        Paradise Tennant: yes we were talking about it earllier .. the vital
        importance of doing nothing :)
        Jen Dix: that we don't seem to have as much time of just doing
        nothing that allows creative thoughts to percolate
        Paradise Tennant: and deeper more profound levels of awareness to arise
        Calvino Rabeni: Same as Art, but it doesn't have a social "day job"
        Jen Dix: if nothing else, thinking in those terms makes me more
        patient at stop lights ;)
        Calvino Rabeni: Not that I haven't checked my email at stop lights
        Paradise Tennant: lol
        Calvino Rabeni: But I have it flagged as "dubious habit"
        Jen Dix: yes, me too
        Calvino Rabeni: Creative thoughts can be encouraged to percolate in
        other ways too
        Calvino Rabeni: Relaxation ... interrupting habitual mental patterns
        ... etc.
        Calvino Rabeni: Or the "pause" that this place PlayAsBeing recommends
        Paradise Tennant: nods
        Paradise Tennant: yes ... stress makes for uncreative thoughts
        Calvino Rabeni: But relaxation - just physical, helps, all that
        stress blocks creative flow
        Calvino Rabeni: And maybe a journal
        Paradise Tennant: nods yes been meaning to do a dream journal but
        never seem to dream
        Calvino Rabeni: Or proposing ideas to friends, sometimes they then
        "come back"
        Jen Dix: also repetition, a moving meditation, like walking or
        shovelling or painting
        Paradise Tennant: yes housework even can be a good practrice for
        creativity :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, long walks or physical work, can free the mind
        Calvino Rabeni: For me, long car trips can do it also
        Calvino Rabeni: Except for one thing, getting the ideas out of the
        kind of unconscious zone and into some place that will get somehow
        "furthered" later on
        Calvino Rabeni: I suppose, a pure fantasy or daydream can be as
        easily forgotten as a night dream
        Eliza Madrigal: Oh, late birds :)
        --BELL--
        Calvino Rabeni: Amnesia, in a form
        Jen Dix: I write things down. but then I'm never sure where to put
        them so that I can find them again, how to label them etc
        Calvino Rabeni: Eliza materialized my wish for someone to appear and
        sit in that position
        Paradise Tennant: hiya elza
        Eliza Madrigal smiles
        Eliza Madrigal: we aim to please
        Calvino Rabeni: Understand same here, Jen
        Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paradise :)
        Eliza Madrigal: And Hi Calvino, Jen
        Paradise Tennant: sigh .. sadly I have to scoot ... going out of
        town tomorrow ..really early morning . thank you all :) namaste :)
        Jen Dix: hello
        Eliza Madrigal: Oh, have a nice trip then Paradise :)
        Jen Dix: good night
        Calvino Rabeni: Bye Paradise :)
        Paradise Tennant: good night ..sweet dreams :)
        Eliza Madrigal: Hope I didn't interrupt
        Jen Dix: not at all
        Eliza Madrigal: :) Thanks, great
        Eliza Madrigal: you know i stay subscribed to Thothica, but it seems
        ages since I've attended an event
        Jen Dix: :)
        Eliza Madrigal: Some time ago >wink< there was a conversation on
        time which was interesting... saved it and have meant to read it over...
        Eliza Madrigal: Your tag reminds me :)
        Jen Dix: we are just getting 3 new discussion series together
        Jen Dix: they are all launching in the next 2 or 3 weeks
        Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice... will watch the notices closely
        Jen Dix: yes. maybe one will appeal :)
        Eliza Madrigal: What kinds of discussions do you most enjoy?
        Jen Dix: hmmm
        Jen Dix: I enjoy the poetry explication ones I lead
        Jen Dix: and then I've been doing an impromptu series on friday
        nights that is based on some idea that seems intriguing at the time :)
        Jen Dix: I guess I like all sorts of topics, but especially ones
        that build ideas and stretch what I know
        Eliza Madrigal: I wonder why I've not attended poetry meetings very
        much... probably just overlap with other things
        Jen Dix: so mostly a personal response
        Eliza Madrigal nods... seems the potential of SL
        Eliza Madrigal: many vantage points... stretching, challenging
        Jen Dix: I haven't done a poetry explication thing in a long time.
        we have a poetry reading session on wednesdays, but that's different
        Eliza Madrigal: Ah
        Jen Dix: what do you like?
        Eliza Madrigal: Hm, I suppose discussions like the time topic
        interest me...
        Eliza Madrigal: or memory and such
        Jen Dix: yes, those are interesting
        Jen Dix: we were just talking about creative mind wandering
        Eliza Madrigal: But really, sometimes it is just that something
        seems fresh, a different angle on something familiar, etc
        Eliza Madrigal: oohhh, nice
        Jen Dix: we were thinking about the steps/actions that you can take
        to have insights
        Eliza Madrigal: Interesting!
        Eliza Madrigal: Now I'm very curious :)
        Jen Dix: I just heard of a study that showed that if you don't have
        a flash of insight within 8 seconds, you might as well go do
        something else to relax your mind, because you're apt not to have it
        Eliza Madrigal: Relaxing... that seems key?
        Jen Dix: it was a brain imaging thing in response to a word puzzle,
        I think
        Jen Dix: allowing metanl space, I was thinking of it as.
        Jen Dix: not filling the mind
        Eliza Madrigal: hm... yes
        Calvino Rabeni: Good eve, steve
        Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steve :))
        stevenaia Michinaga: hello
        Jen Dix: hi
        Eliza Madrigal: We were talking about insight :)
        Eliza Madrigal: I'm just catching up/on/in :)
        stevenaia Michinaga: awww, nice, creative insight?
        Eliza Madrigal nods
        Calvino Rabeni: And there's a link in there, with pleasure and
        desire too
        Eliza Madrigal: I find the orange Calvino is wearing inspiring :)
        Eliza Madrigal: How so?
        Calvino Rabeni: Remember how it feels to be on a train of creative
        thought?
        Calvino Rabeni: Not boring
        Calvino Rabeni: It's energizing and pleasurable
        Jen Dix: right. it is exciting
        Eliza Madrigal: yes
        Eliza Madrigal: What might exhaust that?
        Calvino Rabeni: As if each idea is finding a small treasure or
        receiving a gift
        Eliza Madrigal: yes
        Eliza Madrigal: Sorry, that may have been an odd question :)
        Calvino Rabeni: What might exhaust it - good question - maybe
        automatic thinkiing of a mechanical nature
        Calvino Rabeni: turning the crank harder
        --BELL--
        stevenaia Michinaga: actually it's energizing
        Eliza Madrigal: perhaps trying to 'catch' every one might feel
        exhausting... yes, as though pulling down the insights to feed a
        lesser machinery
        Calvino Rabeni: Attachment to an unrealistic idea, wanting it to
        work when it can't, "shoulds" that are subtle, sticking with the
        form rather than the spirit of a thing, all can dissipate / exhaust
        the creative energy
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Eliza, a lesser machinery is a nice image of it
        Eliza Madrigal: So energizing when 'just' appreciative?
        Calvino Rabeni: A sense of beauty
        Calvino Rabeni: But there's also the idea of a "creative drive"
        Jen Dix: you can become better at getting in the flow of creativity
        with practice and consistency, I think. yet it does resist routine
        in another sense
        Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes even seemingly driven by unhappiness
        Calvino Rabeni: It does resist being made into any automatic machine
        Eliza Madrigal: I ran across something in the logs that really
        stopped me in my tracks, about beauty:
        Eliza Madrigal: Wol Euler: that's an idea. Perhaps we experience
        beauty is when the world gives us something ready-made that we can
        love without having to think about
        Jen Dix: I need to run before my laptop battery fails. take care
        Eliza Madrigal: Bye Jen :) Nice to meet/talk to you
        Calvino Rabeni: Thanks for dropping in Jen
        Eliza Madrigal: with you rather :)
        Calvino Rabeni: That's a nice quote Eliza
        Eliza Madrigal: It was an interesting idea I thought... that beauty
        has a sense of rest to it
        Calvino Rabeni: there seems to be a feeling with beauty of grace, a
        little strangeness, maybe, and "I didn't *do* anything to deserve this"
        Eliza Madrigal: and maybe the creative unction does as well
        Eliza Madrigal: Ahhhh, yes Grace
        Eliza Madrigal: there's the rest :)
        Calvino Rabeni: More than just the rest in simplicity of symmetry -
        Beauty has some provocation also
        stevenaia Michinaga: nods, or you wouldn;t appriciate it
        Eliza Madrigal: hm, some startle?
        stevenaia Michinaga: it would not be the exception
        Calvino Rabeni: It refuses to be captured. Cannot be retained, does
        not last, might carry knowledge of its ephemeral nature
        Calvino Rabeni: Or not ? :)
        stevenaia Michinaga: :)
        Eliza Madrigal: uncapturable/undefineable seems right... often
        something seems it shouldn't work... or is wrong somehow... yet does
        indeed inspire
        Calvino Rabeni: And there's that idea of it being in the mind of the
        beholder - what does that refer to?
        stevenaia Michinaga: that almost anything can be that beautiful
        thing to someone
        Eliza Madrigal: hmm... maybe beauty defies the eye of the beholder/
        the beholder thinks it knows what beauty is but responds to
        something else...
        Eliza Madrigal: :) Nice, Steve
        Calvino Rabeni: Certainly it doesn't mean beauty is only imagined,
        or subjective
        Calvino Rabeni: I think it means, the mind of the beholder has to be
        open to receive it, or it can't appear
        Calvino Rabeni: :))) eeek
        Eliza Madrigal: :)
        Calvino Rabeni: Not to worry, links can be shortened
        Eliza Madrigal: I meant to give this link:
       
    http://cubeme.com/blog/2007/04/10/10...y-jean-nouvel/
        stevenaia Michinaga: I;ve seen this building
        Eliza Madrigal: (I hope Paradise -waves- will edit that out please ! )
        Eliza Madrigal: yes Steve, what do you think?
        stevenaia Michinaga: both links work
        stevenaia Michinaga: belive it or not, it is one of his better
        recent works in my mind
        Eliza Madrigal: :)
        Eliza Madrigal: I normally rail against someone cutting up my
        vision.... prefer a wide open window... yet, this is somehow
        captivating to me.. the way he shows provides views at once
        Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's why I've kept thinking of it... it
        puzzles me that I love it :)
        --BELL--
        Calvino Rabeni: Similar comments have been made about leaded glass
        panel windows compared to plate glass
        Calvino Rabeni: Have you seen:this in Cambridge MA:
       
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stata_Center
        stevenaia Michinaga: he has done some awful projects I have seen in
        person
        stevenaia Michinaga:
       
    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...IYGglAfbr72oAg
        Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes in pictures and in a few science shows...
        stevenaia Michinaga: here is someone who possess the ability to do
        something both lovely and quite horrible
        Eliza Madrigal: hm, yes Steve this seems a little odd. I can never
        judge unless I've walked around inside though
        Calvino Rabeni: Frightening, isn't it?
        Eliza Madrigal: hehe
        Eliza Madrigal: razors edge :)
        stevenaia Michinaga: more than freightening, very repressive
        stevenaia Michinaga: sometime toying with senses it the goal
        stevenaia Michinaga: and sometimes it is an unfortunalte goal
        Eliza Madrigal: Which I suppose is wonderful on a small scale...
        something that will last a short while
        Calvino Rabeni: Have you read Christopher Alexander's essays on form
        in folk architecture? I mean the classic - A Pattern Language
        -although I think too much was done with the "pattern" part of the idea
        stevenaia Michinaga: nods
        Eliza Madrigal makes note
        Calvino Rabeni: But those are the things that endure, not the
        conceits of bold art and architects
        stevenaia Michinaga:
    http://www.patternlanguage.com/
        Calvino Rabeni: The great artist must flirt with failure - but in
        the case of architecture, everyone lives with it for a long time
        Eliza Madrigal: In Miami we seem particularly short-sighted
        Eliza Madrigal: Nice vision statement here at this link, though
        stevenaia Michinaga: National Architects convention are meeting in
        Miami in June, you can spot them as they all are looking up all the time
        Eliza Madrigal: heheh
        Eliza Madrigal: I should have a word with them "Help, help us please!"
        Eliza Madrigal: :)
        Eliza Madrigal: "Please tell someone that strip malls are out"
        stevenaia Michinaga: helo Jim
        Jim27 Luik: hello
        Eliza Madrigal: Hi Jim :)
        stevenaia Michinaga: feel free to join us
        Jim27 Luik: hi
        Calvino Rabeni: Strip malls - are one of the few things of modern
        life I've found no way to enjoy
        stevenaia Michinaga: back to insight and creativity, I think anyone
        can "learn" how to use these things like meditiation, by practice
        Eliza Madrigal tends to agree
        Calvino Rabeni: Practice, example, inspiration, the elements of a
        good education
        Eliza Madrigal: I enjoyed in one of Stim's recent audios, his
        talking about insights not staying 'localized'...
        Calvino Rabeni: One barrier is the idea of the creative genius
        Eliza Madrigal: Think so?
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it's a recent invention
        stevenaia Michinaga: Barrier, what do you mean
        Calvino Rabeni: historically that is, paralleling the idea that most
        people are not creative and cannot be, and only a few "have it", but
        it can't be taught or learned
        Eliza Madrigal: hm..yes a kind of filtering out
        Calvino Rabeni: Somethng the "masses" can't aspire to
        stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps, bt a pessimistice view of the mind
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes, thus a barrier
        Eliza Madrigal: a kind of zero sum mentality
        Calvino Rabeni: yeah
        stevenaia Michinaga: if they can "belive" in something unseen,
        sounds like the creative process is at work there
        Eliza Madrigal: :) yes it does
        stevenaia Michinaga: thinking the basis of many religions
        stevenaia Michinaga: it begins with creativity
        Calvino Rabeni: Yes / no - "belief" is a lot bigger in christianity
        than eastern religions
        stevenaia Michinaga: and imagination
        Eliza Madrigal: yes creativity/imagination seem vital tools
        Eliza Madrigal: rehearsals, etc
        Calvino Rabeni: Vital indeed for relating to "reality"
        stevenaia Michinaga: as is appriciation... a very creative
        Eliza Madrigal: trying things on. When we listen to others its a
        kind of trying them on, in a sense
        stevenaia Michinaga: thing?
        Eliza Madrigal: Hm... yes I guess it can be. Interesting idea Steve
        Eliza Madrigal: something in us attends to something... lets it show
        us something...
        Eliza Madrigal: even if out of the range of our expectations
        --BELL--
        Calvino Rabeni: The difference between appreciation and just kind of
        seeing something is .... ?
        Eliza Madrigal: surrender...
        stevenaia Michinaga: perbably the smile
        stevenaia Michinaga: probebly
        Eliza Madrigal: :)
        stevenaia Michinaga: I think there is a joy with approcoation
        stevenaia Michinaga: be it personal satifaction or jsut a glimmer of
        what cna be next
        Eliza Madrigal: Ah, potential
        Eliza Madrigal: and a letting go... a kind of release into the
        joy... loss of self-consciousness perhaps too
        stevenaia Michinaga: if you can appricaite this, perhaps you can
        them appriciate that too
        Eliza Madrigal: 'when we're a portal everything is a portal'
        stevenaia Michinaga: (not to PAradice, correct spelling pls)
        Eliza Madrigal smiles
        Eliza Madrigal: Paradise has her work cut out for her with this log,
        with us....
        Eliza Madrigal: hehe
        stevenaia Michinaga: (NOTE) eeek
        Eliza Madrigal: This is what happens when we stay up drinking Merlot...
        Eliza Madrigal: er,,,
        Calvino Rabeni: The difference I see - it is kind of like the 7th
        day of the christian creation story - god did the work to create,
        then on the 7th day rested, and saw that it was good
        Eliza Madrigal: !!
        Calvino Rabeni: That was appreciation
        stevenaia Michinaga: then what;s my excuse, pls pour me a glass
        Eliza Madrigal pours Steve a glass to measure up to my two
        Eliza Madrigal: And YES @ Calvino
        Eliza Madrigal: Rest.
        stevenaia Michinaga: nods, Calvino, the first thing god did was
        relax and appeciate
        Eliza Madrigal: Like Tilopa's advice, too... All the activity took
        place IN the rest
        stevenaia Michinaga: after working so hard
        Eliza Madrigal: It rested in the rest
        Calvino Rabeni: It is a reminder to pause and appreciate
        Calvino Rabeni: in case during "work" the rest is fogotten
        Calvino Rabeni: maybe during work the mechanical energies need to
        predominate for a while
        Eliza Madrigal: Hm, or during work rest is forgotten
        Calvino Rabeni: but a return to fullness would be important, if that
        were true
        Eliza Madrigal thinks of "Nature does nothing and leaves nothing
        undone"... I'm sure there are better translations of that...?
        Calvino Rabeni: From Lao Tzu yes?
        Eliza Madrigal: yes
        Eliza Madrigal: It really is a Taoist sensibility... this Restful,
        yet active, vibrant ground of things
        Calvino Rabeni: Same thing in the Chuang Tzu story of the ox cutter
        Eliza Madrigal: hm, nods
        Calvino Rabeni: It's in the log somewhere a few months ago
        Eliza Madrigal: yes I remember. That's quite a whle ago, when you
        first began coming to PaB
        Calvino Rabeni: Taoist sensibility - nothing is ever static -
        doesn't have to be always the same or to average out
        stevenaia Michinaga:
    http://taoism.about.com/od/chuangtz1/p/Zhuangzi.htm
        Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Steve
        Calvino Rabeni: It tolerates a lot of diversity - not so narrowly
        normative
        Eliza Madrigal: hm... finding the space
        Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni pours the red wine, not the vodka :)
        Eliza Madrigal smiles
        Eliza Madrigal: wine breathes
        Calvino Rabeni: A toast then - to - Imagination and Creativity
        Eliza Madrigal raises her glass
        stevenaia Michinaga: "clink"
        Eliza Madrigal: :))
        Eliza Madrigal: Ah, and that has the feeling of "time to get ready
        for bed'
        Eliza Madrigal: So I will say goodnight :)
        stevenaia Michinaga: night, I sould get to bed too
        Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for a great conversation :) Sweet dreams
        Calvino Rabeni: As will I, ELiza and Stevenaia :)
        --BELL--
        Calvino Rabeni: Dream well
        Eliza Madrigal: :) :::waves::::
        stevenaia Michinaga: night
        Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_

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