2010.05.08 01:00 - Glimpses

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

    Scathach Rhiadra: Good morning bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: goopd morning scath - sry for ma delay ... ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: did you see this "hug a volonteer" action from linden ? and if yes : what may it be ? (!) :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: I saw the notice, but am not sure what it is about
    Bertram Jacobus: but unsure ? what could it be ? ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: probably a charity thing:)
    Bertram Jacobus: don´t think so ... hm ... but may be you´re right ... now i´m curious ! ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: there will probably be more info on secondlife.com
    Bertram Jacobus: hey yaku - good morning ! :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Yakuzza:)
    Bertram Jacobus: now i want to know - make a short relog ... ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm bertrum got replaced by bertram :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wb bert :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: wb:)
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. ty :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: so did you find out any more?
    Bertram Jacobus: no. i´m slow. sry ;-)
    Bertram Jacobus: http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/05/05/have-you-hugged-a-volunteer-today
    Bertram Jacobus: but "here it is" ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: any topic to discuss today?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. perhaps the hug action for volunteers and it´s meaning in special as well as in general ? :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: i wrote a comment now there ...
    Bertram Jacobus: hello qt ! :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Qt:)
    Qt Core: hi all
    Bertram Jacobus: and see yaku writing ...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Oh, the issue of grasping maybe, everyone is constantly grasping for something and how postive or negative is to do so and at which point are we supposted to see non success as a button to allow us to be unhappy.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: We can even grasp to be more mindfull and settled down threaten this kind of mental state with the grasping for it instead of just doing it :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: The human mind is quiet funny when i think about these things, do i make sense for you ?
    Qt Core: yes
    Bertram Jacobus thinks ...
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes, it seems to be the human condition to grasp at everything
    Bertram Jacobus: my impression is, unhappyness comes from being apart and happyness from being united
    Scathach Rhiadra: can you say more?
    Bertram Jacobus: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: i found it out when i thought about wishes and fullfillment of wishes - or being frustrated
    Bertram Jacobus: i saw, that the priciple seems to be as said before : coming or being together - makes or is joy
    Bertram Jacobus: being separated - pain
    Scathach Rhiadra: are not wishes a type of grasping?
    Bertram Jacobus: i researched it more deep and got the impression that this is a very deep base of those aspects (pain and joy)
    Bertram Jacobus: and it fits to all areas i know : love for example - may be even the highest level of relativity or / and a link between relativity and the so - for example - called !absolute" :
    Bertram Jacobus: also this can be described in these relations :
    Qt Core: maybe tis come from human being a "clan species"
    Bertram Jacobus: all including unity in the end.
    Bertram Jacobus: finished.
    Qt Core: (ops, sorry for intruding :-) )
    Bertram Jacobus: for sure are wishes a form of grasping, but
    Bertram Jacobus: that was not my point - as i hope could explain and make clear with the written above (?)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Bertram Jacobus is happy :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty
    Scathach Rhiadra: good morning Darren:)
    Darren Islar: hi everyone
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey darren
    Qt Core: hi Darren
    Bertram Jacobus: and what did you mean qt please ? what may come from the human clan species ? ah - this uniting principle ? if yes - i didn´t mean that only on a material level like for group species but also for more single living species - as said in the beginning : coming through and together from wish and reality - leading to a so to call for example "wishless happy state" -
    Bertram Jacobus: hy darren :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: I will give you a notecard of the chat
    Qt Core: whishless happy state :-) love this
    Darren Islar: thanks Scath
    Bertram Jacobus: and that´s what the volunteer action is about too : the wish of being appreciated too a bit, getting thanks, in the end : coming together (!) may be they are not aware of that level of wants and even may be needs - but in ma view it´s even a kind of leading power and a moving one. may be even the moving one.
    Qt Core: do we sometimes have it when we do something we like but as we are into what we are doing don't recognize it ?
    Bertram Jacobus: can happen qt i think but
    Qt Core: mmm maybe you are seeing a bigger scenario here
    Bertram Jacobus: also possible to be aware of it i guess. and that then may be - a real great state ...
    Bertram Jacobus: i see both : the general and the relative scenarios ... or at least : try to ;-)
    Qt Core: that remind me a moment in my life i may have felt that happiness
    Bertram Jacobus: interesting - you tell us ?! :-)
    Qt Core: it was the first saturday morning after i got my first paycheck
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Qt Core: and i was strolling around in a nearby square
    Qt Core: thinking about not having nothing to do, having found my place in the adult society
    Bertram Jacobus: very nice. can understand that very well. and even feel. ty qt ! :-)
    Darren Islar: I think there are different kinds of hapiness, feel of unity and so on
    Qt Core: even now, more than 15 years later i can feel some of that thinking about it
    Darren Islar: on the psychological level it is there for a moment and will always disappear
    Darren Islar: on the wisdom level it is a quite different thing
    Scathach Rhiadra: a feeling of completness Qt?
    Darren Islar: we should make a difference between those two
    Qt Core: more accomplishment
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, that overlaps : accomplishments, completeness ...
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Qt Core: maybe
    Bertram Jacobus: and the na'vi say : "a vessel which is filled already, cant be filled" ... ;-)
    Qt Core: it was even about being curious about the change of path, from student/boy to worker/adult
    Qt Core: ops
    Darren Islar: that is what I heard in your story, the happiness of being fully part of..........(whateverit is)
    Darren Islar: the next step in life
    Darren Islar: that is happiness on a psychological level
    Qt Core: not that that change brought the wiseness they say ;-)
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: and that is why it is not wisdom
    Qt Core: :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: for me, wisdom means knowledge, combined with love
    Darren Islar: conpassion or love
    Darren Islar: *compassion
    Bertram Jacobus: i meant love, but compassion i see as a part of it
    Scathach Rhiadra: but these moments of happiness/ joy when we feel complete, with nothing to grasp for (in that moment) can be very important
    Darren Islar: yes, you find that kind of moments all over the place
    Darren Islar: and they can be part of real insight
    Darren Islar: on the wisdom level
    Darren Islar: but they also can be part of the psychological level
    Darren Islar: hard to distinguishe
    Scathach Rhiadra: they give us a glimpse of a way of being without the grasping or neediness
    Darren Islar: but when we speek about love on a psychological level
    Darren Islar: we mean that some are excluded
    Darren Islar: when we talk about love on the wisdoms level
    Darren Islar: everyone is included
    Bertram Jacobus: when i speak of love i always mean the all including love
    Darren Islar: okay, thansk Bertram :-)
    Darren Islar: sorry if I am a little bit pushy, but I think that we mix those levels up a lot of times
    Darren Islar: not knowing what we are really talking about
    Darren Islar: just wanted to make that observation
    Bertram Jacobus: and i appreciate also the greek differentiation of "eros, philia, agape" - sry for may be repetition, but may be i didn´t tell when you, darren, was present - you know it ? i find, that makes it very clear
    Darren Islar: no, sorry, I don;t
    Qt Core: brb
    Darren Islar: and I read the notecard
    Darren Islar: so I know most of what has been said here, otherwise I wouldn't dare to make such a comment
    Darren Islar: but when I was reading it, it was the question that popped up
    Darren Islar: but I will look it up Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: all those in other languages we tend to call "love" - but the greek differentate : eros : you´ll know what it means. "philia" also well known, but to explain a bit more : like you like your family for example, pets and such. in general : all what is on the friend side of a friend / enemy perspective. and agape : the all including love ...
    Darren Islar: I see
    Bertram Jacobus: and it´s interesting : eros and agape even may have contradictionary aspects (!) of grasping or letting go "for example" ...
    Darren Islar: from body, to a social psychological level, to wisdom
    Bertram Jacobus: yess :-)
    Darren Islar: intersesting
    Bertram Jacobus: and for sure very confusing, when such is mixed up ! ;-)
    Qt Core: rl calls, bye all
    Darren Islar: yes, it is all about context
    Bertram Jacobus: bye qt - have a nice time ! :-)
    Darren Islar: bye QT
    Scathach Rhiadra: good bye Qt, have a good weekend:)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care qt
    Darren Islar: and we start at the pychological level, but sometimes we confuse that with the wisdom level
    Darren Islar: and then we think we talk about the same thing
    Bertram Jacobus: good to dissolve all what stucks ...
    Darren Islar: and some things can only be approached on the widom level, like emptiness
    Darren Islar: and being I guess
    Scathach Rhiadra: well I must go now, have to go to work this morning:( Have a good weekend!
    Darren Islar: but we often talk about it like we talk about a sandwich
    Darren Islar: bye Scath
    Bertram Jacobus: i think so too and am happy to have impressions that more and more people find such an access, via many various paths (!) ... :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty vm scath - also for supporting us all here as guardian !
    Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté
    Bertram Jacobus: namasté
    Darren Islar: I'm going too
    Darren Islar: see you guys
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe darren - and what you call "sandwich" we called in our youth time "strawberry icecream" -
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye darren
    Bertram Jacobus: okay - session ended as it seems - bye yaku ? ;-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bert

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