2010.05.14 01:00 - The what and the how

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session.


    Yaku and I start off in Spanish, moving to German when we run out of words.

    Wol Euler: morgen yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hola
    Wol Euler: buenos dias
    Yakuzza Lethecus: como estas ?
    Wol Euler: muy bien gracias, y tu?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: muy bien, gracias
    Yakuzza Lethecus: de nada
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Wenn ich heute nicht den Brückentag hätte wäre ich gestern auch nicht so spät noch ins Cafe gekommen.
    Wol Euler nickt.
    Wol Euler: bin auch gestern erstaunlich spät hier geblieben
    Wol Euler: was has du im cafe getan?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: rumgestanden :)
    Wol Euler: ah:)
    Wol Euler: was, ganz allein und einfach so?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: kira cafe
    Wol Euler: jaaaaa
    Yakuzza Lethecus: du und aga waren doch auch da
    Wol Euler: ich?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Ähm
    Wol Euler: gestern??
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh
    Wol Euler grinst. Hab ich denn ein zwilling?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ich dachte ihr hättet nebeneinander gesessen :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: lol
    Wol Euler: tun wir schon oft, nur nicht gestern
    Wol Euler: aber wir sehen uns zur verwechslung ähnlich :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ich werde mir übrigens kein ipad mehr kaufen :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ich hatte kein notebook und kein pad auch wenn es nichts halbes und nichts ganzes ist ich hab mir nen subnotebook gekauft zu dem zweck :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: dieses acer 1825 ptz
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, aber den ipad?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: es wiegt natürlich das doppelte vom ipad
    Yakuzza Lethecus: aber es hat immernoch ne echte tastatur, nen grösseren screen, 4gb arbeitsspeciher und hat alle pc schnittstellen
    Yakuzza Lethecus: aber klobig und nicht so stylish
    Yakuzza Lethecus: wenn ich nen notebook hätte, hätte ich mir das auch nicht gekauft :)


    Darren arrives, and we switch to English. 

    Darren Islar: hey :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey darren
    Wol Euler: morning darren
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you this morning ?
    Darren Islar: still suffering from a cold
    Wol Euler: oh dear
    Yakuzza Lethecus shouts, back to ur bed!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :P
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: no, it is not that bad, but makes me even feel more tired then I already am
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: and being tired is why you are not resting in bed? :-P
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: different kind of tiredness
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but i know that feeling, it's a different form of being tired
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ys
    Wol Euler: aah :)
    Wol Euler: perhaps not so much tired as "empty"?
    Darren Islar: hmmmm, yes that's certainly an aspect of it
    Darren Islar: don't feel like doing anything
    Darren Islar: Like your outfit Wol
    Wol Euler smiles. Thank you, this is a favourite for when I don't feel like high fashion.
    Darren Islar: I even think Liza would love it :-)



    Darren asks the titular question. 

    Darren Islar: can you get an overdose of PaB?
    Wol Euler grins. I have several friends who could confirm that impression :)
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Wol Euler: heh, one reply fits both of your lines
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think the issue is not to get an overdose of pab it's that i for example don't drop in the situation as if everything is new
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so expectations and habitual elements take the core out of my pabish impression
    Darren Islar: well, I guess that is a good summary of what I mean
    Darren Islar: it is like putting on a coat, but nothing happens anymore
    Darren Islar: it feels too comfortable :-)
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: is that because of hte group, or the conversations, or ...?


    Who directs these sessions? 

    Wol Euler: sessions have a different focus when Pema is here, those I never overdose on.
    Darren Islar: thinking.....
    Wol Euler: but when he's away for weeks at a time, the conversation becomes diffuse.
    Darren Islar: it is like you've seen it all
    Darren Islar: right
    Wol Euler: I feel that too, and I don't know what to do about it.
    Wol Euler: what I personally could do, I mean
    Darren Islar: I think Liza is trying
    Wol Euler nods.
    Darren Islar: but it is probably why I have dropped the question of being several times
    Darren Islar: not feeling that it grows on me
    Darren Islar: Pema responded by the way, for a new theme-session about that
    Wol Euler: ah, good
    Wol Euler: with her?
    Darren Islar: but I need to watch the birds closer here, with all his spies around :-)
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Darren Islar: well I was the one that dropped it in the middle, so I got the IM
    Darren Islar: but besides that, I don't know what to do about it myself also
    Wol Euler: there aren't enough chiefs perhaps, we are all just indians
    Darren Islar: yes, I guess so
    Darren Islar: and also no 'steps' you can take except for the nine sec.
    Wol Euler: I was thinking more of these sessions
    Darren Islar: you know a practice
    Wol Euler: of steering them as Pema does
    Darren Islar: right, but a lot of times I also miss the 'how do you handle that from a beginners point of view'
    Darren Islar: he has nice things to say, but it is like flying birds that won't come down


    Darren Islar: beautiful birds I need to say
    Darren Islar: (if their not spying :-))
    Wol Euler: I'm not sure what the answer is, though I think I know what he'd say.
    Wol Euler: if PaB is to have a life of its own, it must become self-directing
    Wol Euler: as Liza has done by starting up her workshop
    Darren Islar: yes, it is a choice he made
    Wol Euler: it's also a practical reality, he has at least one fulltime job and can't attend every session
    Darren Islar: true


    Looking up to people, or not. 

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i often ask myself how i can get rid of my ppl i look up to here and how i can find some kind of methadone for these kinda ppl like eos and pema in books and lectures
    Wol Euler: :)
    Darren Islar: I don;t look up to pema that much
    Darren Islar: though I think he has interesting things to tell
    Darren Islar: and it is great to have a good conversation with him
    Wol Euler: the point is not so much looking up to, as the question of who leads the conversation. He is one of hte few who actively leads, most (including myself, alas) let it go where it wants
    Darren Islar: true
    Darren Islar: but if you look up to someone it is easier to let him or her lead
    Darren Islar: and looking up is probably not exactly the right word here
    Darren Islar: or we are too lazy :-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Wol Euler: comfortable
    Darren Islar: no longer prepare ourselves for a meeting
    Darren Islar: yes making it comfortable on ourselves
    Darren Islar: instead of asking the hard questions
    Darren Islar: (I have a feeling Pema likes where this conversation is going :-))
    Wol Euler grins
    Darren Islar: but I think it is both
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don't believe that there are "hard" questions, we have to drop the hard and ask the questions no matter what


    Darren Islar: :_)
    Darren Islar: even the bell is not cooperative today, belling at the wrong times :-)
    Darren Islar: but you can discuss 'hard'
    Wol Euler muses. What to do?
    Darren Islar: good question


    The title arrives. 

    Darren Islar: if we don't do anything we probably go back to the 'comfortable place'
    Wol Euler: I suppose what we need is to address our demons and inner desires :)
    Darren Islar: like we haven't even discussed this
    Darren Islar: that's is the what, now the how
    Darren Islar: you know the what is discussed here a lot
    Darren Islar: but I miss the how
    Wol Euler nods
    Darren Islar: I know Cal is struggling with questions like these one too
    Darren Islar: thought I can't really fill in for him
    Darren Islar: but we are not the only ones I guess
    Wol Euler: many of us are, actually; at least those who don't come just for conversation
    Darren Islar: yes


    Darren Islar: well I think that in this discussion you can find the essence of how we feel about it
    Darren Islar: maybe something to be discussed further in the guardian session?
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: that's the right place for it, apart from here :)
    Darren Islar: can't make it Sunday's though, 8 am is really a bad time for me
    Wol Euler: I'm usually at work then, too. Perhaps this sunday
    Darren Islar: and this week is filled up already
    Darren Islar: well, that's is what I meant, if I really want to I can come in, but too busy for this Sunday
    Wol Euler nods.
    Darren Islar: I really need to watch myself, I'm afraid
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Wol Euler: don't overstretch, we've talked about this before
    Darren Islar: right



    Darren Islar: isn't there in Germany another christian holiday coming up?
    Darren Islar: there is one in Holand
    Darren Islar: Holland
    Wol Euler: yes, next weekend, the monday
    Darren Islar: and the sunday also I guess?
    Wol Euler: well :)
    Wol Euler: perhaps, possibly
    Wol Euler: I'll try
    Darren Islar: because in my book 'Pinksteren' as we call it is two days
    Darren Islar: well, let me know Wol
    Wol Euler: will do
    Darren Islar: If you want make Liza to stutter tonight, you should show up like this :-))
    Wol Euler laughs.
    Wol Euler: that sounds like a challenge to her ability to concentrate
    Darren Islar: hahaha
    Wol Euler: "be mindful!"
    Darren Islar: I am going
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye you both
    Wol Euler: bye darren, rest up and get better
    Wol Euler: go back to bed
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care
    Darren Islar: thanks for the discussion
    Darren Islar: cu
    Wol Euler: bye yaku, take care, see you later
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