2010.05.14 07:00 - Deep (in the Ocean of) Time

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Eliza Madrigal.

    The comments are by Eliza, who was joined by Bleu, Yakuzza, Sharon, Eden, Pema, Zen, Sophia, and Lucinda!

    This wonderful session started off with Bleu arriving in thought-provoking attire...

    Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu! :))
    Eliza Madrigal zooming in to see you....
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: What a fascinating look... really stunning!
    Bleu Oleander: ty!
    Bleu Oleander: some new "textures" I picked up in NYC
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh!
    Eliza Madrigal: That was my next question... what the inspiration might have been
    Bleu Oleander: I'm wearing an art piece I saw in NYC
    Bleu Oleander: so art is the inspiration
    Eliza Madrigal: Was it clothing in NYC, or that was your doing?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone bleu_001.jpg
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza :))
    Bleu Oleander: no it was a sculpture
    Bleu Oleander: hi Yaku!
    Eliza Madrigal: oohh... do feel you are wearing the sculpture in a way, now?
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Bleu Oleander: hi Eden!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden, and Hi Sharon! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: morning eden
    Eliza Madrigal: Wow
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and ssl
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good morning :))
    Bleu Oleander: hi Sharon

    Eden and Sharon arrive simultaneously, each with brilliant and bright hair...

    Eliza Madrigal: Such brilliant expressiveness today
    Eden Haiku: Good morning Eliza and Bleu. Good afternoon Yakuzza. ;)
    Eden Haiku: Hi Sharon!
    Eliza Madrigal: I feel grateful :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eden Haiku: Nice to be here Eliza ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm... now who will arrive to sit on the orange cushion between Bleu and Ya I wonder :)

    Sharon is there is a flash...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: spontaneous Sharon :)
    Eden Haiku: ;))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I like these better anyway
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Pema!
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Well.... a Drop Day report of sorts, that I set the timer yesterday and took notes for many of the pauses ...  

    Pema arrives...

    Bleu Oleander: Hi Pema!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi pema
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :) Good Evening to you
    Pema Pera: Hi Sharon!
    Eden Haiku: hello Pema ;)
    Pema Pera: hi Bleu!
    Pema Pera: hi Yaku!
    Pema Pera: hi Eden!
    Pema Pera: hi Eliza!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: and how did that go Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Eden Haiku: :)
    Pema Pera: thank you, Eliza, and good morning and afternoon to you in US/Canada and Europe!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, it was fun. I noticed that when I wanted to concentrate on certain things, it was easier to get into initially, because I felt quite connected already, in a way...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: concentrate on what sort of things?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, reading and longer meditations really
    Eliza Madrigal: But my notes were very simple
    Eliza Madrigal: No poetry this time :))
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, so I'm continuing today, and thought that during the pauses it might be nice to share whatever little observation may come up?
    Eden Haiku: I'm also doing it today Eliza. But I have a lytlle tech problem with my timer... It works but with no sound...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah... how does it work then?
    Eden Haiku: Just says visually: "temps écoulé"
    Eliza Madrigal: :)) Everything sounds better in French

    Eden Haiku: Trying to fix it...I dropped the iPod this morning. Could that be it maybe?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hope not. Sometimes applications are just moody
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eden Haiku: Yes. Funny I wanted to use a theme today: PLaying as Being a computer...
    Eden Haiku: Already a bug...

    Unpacking & processing delays...

    Bleu Oleander: you "dropped" your ipod?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehhee
    Eden Haiku: hehe Bleu!
    Pema Pera: do you know George bleu_002.jpgMoustaki's chanson, Eden, "Le Temps De Vivre" ?

    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu is playing as being art today... well, every day, but especially today ...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: a computer only can do what it is programmed to do
    Eden Haiku: I woke up with the insight that I am still downloading data from the Guhjasamaja Tantra teachings in early March...


    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    Pema opens a discussion on working with time...

    Pema Pera: I'm working with time, lately, and during the break I felt how time is cradling us, how we are part of the weave of time, hard to put into words; what seems so concrete is ineffably so.

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Im sure you were doing a lot of things Eden, at the time, maybe there are a lot of things in mental boxes still

    Eden Haiku: Time cradling us, how nicely said Pema!
    Bleu Oleander: say more about how you are working with time Pema
    SophiaSharon Larnia: listens
    Eliza Madrigal: time for processing and integration...
    Eliza Madrigal listens too :)
    Eden Haiku: Yes Sharon, a lot to unpack.


    Pema Pera: hmmm, words are so hard to come by, more with time than with space
    Pema Pera: space relates to emptiness
    Pema Pera: (in Japanese, the characters for emptiness and sky are the same, for example)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice!
    Pema Pera: but time relates to . . . what?
    Pema Pera: energy? life? chi? presence?
    Eden Haiku: Flow?
    Pema Pera: all of the above and yet in a different kind of weave
    Pema Pera: yes, flow for sure
    SophiaSharon Larnia: space bends time (or is it the other way around) :)))
    Pema Pera: when seeing everything as "empty" there is a sense of the solidity dropping away, nothing to lean on
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Sophia
    Pema Pera: but when seeing everything directly *as* time, that sense intensifies in a strange way, at right angles from the emptiness in some sense

    Nice to see Sophia, and also Zen ...

    Pema Pera: hi Sophia!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia :)))
    Pema Pera: (spacetime is bent, alltogether, Sharon, by gravity :-)
    Eden Haiku: Hello Sophia ;)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles :P
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, you look beautiful :) I'll make you a note, one sec...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, and also Zen :) Hello
    Zen Arado: Hi all:)
    Eden Haiku: hello Zen!
    sophia Placebo: rezzing still , Hello all nice to see again)
    Pema Pera: hi Zen!
    Bleu Oleander: hi Zen, Sophia
    Pema Pera: quite an early morning crowd!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zen
    Pema Pera: with less than half the participants actually in a morning :)
    Zen Arado: ty Eliza
    Pema Pera: (or just half, 4 out of 8)

    Eliza Madrigal: Pema, it may sound funny to ask, but how does one see everything 'directly', as time?
    Pema Pera: I don't know about that "one", Eliza, but . . .
    Pema Pera: for me it has a kind of shimmering quality, you could say, or liquid -- not as "empty" as space, but yet more "empty" also in a way
    Pema Pera: in the sense that space is presented anew at every moment
    Pema Pera: so out of the "emptiness" of time the "emptiness" of space arises in a way . . . .
    Pema Pera: making time doubly empty
    Pema Pera: and yet
    Pema Pera: time has this energy quality, this dynamic, making it less "just empty"
    Pema Pera: ah, words . . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: as lucidity ...?
    Pema Pera: that too, yes
    Pema Pera: Tibetans like to talk about "emptiness and clarity"
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Pema Pera: the clarity feels more like the time aspect
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm... considering

    Taking time for granted...

    Pema Pera: it is shocking to see how we normally ignore time
    Pema Pera: we take it for granted, as use it as a doormat
    Pema Pera: or clock
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: well, yes we do complain about it quite a bit

    Bleu Oleander: how should we treat time?

    Pema Pera: rather than viewing each moment as a new present from the Universe, a whole world presented by time!
    Pema Pera: watching in, for starters, I think, Bleu, feeling it
    Pema Pera: appreciating it
    sophia Placebo: hi lucinda
    Bleu Oleander: watching time seems to slow it down
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Lucinda :)
    Lucinda Lavender: HI all...
    Bleu Oleander: hi Lucinda
    Pema Pera: hi Lucinda!
    Pema Pera: . you start watching time, and you can turn on a dime, each moment is new.
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eden Haiku: smiles
    Zen Arado: so time is subjective?
    Pema Pera: beyond subjective and objective, ultimately
    Zen Arado: to me it is subective :)
    Zen Arado: that's the only perspective I have I guess

    Pema Pera: time is like an ocean, there are the surface waves, and then you can dive deeper and deeper in it, or so it feels to me now

    Zen Arado: how do feel any other?
    Eden Haiku: In this very moment is all our past and all our future.
    Zen Arado: like becoming detached from time?
    Pema Pera: turning the lights around, to watch yourself as time, for example, rather than standing outside of the picture, as we tend to do
    Pema Pera: yes, Eden, time does not necessarily separate -- that's only the surface waves that seem separate
    Pema Pera: splashing here and there :)
    Pema Pera: while the ocean quietly rests beneath
    Zen Arado: the ocean of eternity
    Pema Pera: the way it feels to me, Zen, is that when I look at my sense of self arising each moment, I begin to feel how each moment has its own fiction of a self, with plans and problems . . . like waves splashing around
    Pema Pera: but diving just a bit deeper, there is not much self there
    Pema Pera: only time
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... this imagery gives one a sense of how all appearances seem to arise from the waves...
    Zen Arado: such a powerful fiction
    Zen Arado: so hard to see through it
    Pema Pera: if you try, you can't
    Pema Pera: but time can
    Zen Arado: yes - that awful paradox again :)

    Letting time see us taking a break from seeing time ...

    Pema Pera: so letting time see you, perhaps?
    Pema Pera: shall we do that in the next break, letting time see us?
    Zen Arado: sure
    Bleu Oleander: yes
    Eden Haiku: ok
    Pema Pera: We can't see time after all, so let time try its best to see us!
    Eliza Madrigal: Wonderful, sure :)
    Eden Haiku: Let time do the work!
    sophia Placebo: would try
    Zen Arado: 'time waits for no man' though:)
    Pema Pera: we can start already, no reason to wait :)
    Pema Pera: that's how man feels it, in the splashing of the waves
    Pema Pera: there is no splashing and waiting or not waiting beneath the waves
    Pema Pera: and no man either :)
    Pema Pera: but lots of fish!
    Eliza Madrigal: just giant squid (giggles, sorry ;-)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Pema Pera: that too :)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Pema Pera: time as flow -- with fins and arms :)
    Eden Haiku: Swimming fast to avoid the squid...
    Zen Arado: no time = no self in a way?
    Pema Pera: related, yes, but not the same
    Zen Arado: ego loves time
    Pema Pera: no time seems even more radical, for me
    Zen Arado: ot time even
    Eliza Madrigal: hm

    Other contenders for 'log title'...

    Zen Arado: gives up :)
    Pema Pera: great!!!
    Eliza Madrigal: !
    Pema Pera: no-Zen
    Zen Arado: no time for zen
    Zen Arado: timeless
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: Zenless time
    Eliza Madrigal: pause approacheth... Pema Pera: shall we do that in the next break, letting time see us?
    Pema Pera: sure!


    Bleu Oleander: struck by the notion that time can "see"
    Zen Arado: everything is revealed in time
    Bleu Oleander: time reveals but cannot see
    Pema Pera: . I let time see me: time seeing nothing but time, water in water.

    Pema Pera: why do you think time can't see, Bleu?
    Pema Pera: (and what did others see/find/feel?)
    Eliza Madrigal: time reveals silence/words wondering where to stand/we seeing time see

    Bleu Oleander: to see implys to me a consciousness that i don't attribute to time

    Eden Haiku: My imagination ran wild...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i was pondering time like it was a thing, and I don't know if it is a thing

    Lucinda Lavender: pictured a mingling with many glittering reflections of light

    Zen Arado: was thinking time rules me too much

    Pema Pera: if time presents everything, literally, every moment, than time presumably has whatever power that its products have, no?
    Zen Arado: or I rule me using time too much
    Bleu Oleander: we have a tendancy to anthropomorphize (sp?) time

    sophia Placebo: i am attaching time to motion so ... that was hard task to detach time and let it see

    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at the idea of detaching time
    Pema Pera: but a mountain that doesn't move is also given by time, moment after moment, in its existence, don't you think, Sophia?

    Bleu Oleander: but mountains do move
    Pema Pera: moving or not, each moment *everything* appears
    sophia Placebo: its rocks move and change thats time

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i also cant help it but to see time in a larger way, as in infinite, time becomes meaningless, maybe i should bring my view back a bit, into the now
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm
    Zen Arado: time is aging me - nasty time :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (view back or forward, what is now? hahaha)
    Zen Arado: ageing?
    Pema Pera: yes, Sharon, too wide a prespective can be disorienting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Eliza Madrigal: meaningless infinity or infinity as meaning itself...
    Eliza Madrigal: like some kind of Satisfaction
    Lucinda Lavender: thinking about the words before and after
    SophiaSharon Larnia: relative to the now :)
    Pema Pera: yes, Lucinda?

    Eden Haiku: One pragmatic aspect of 'deep" time is that we can access the past as well as the future from the 'now', like a door.
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Bleu Oleander: what is the past?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice Eden... yes there comes an evenness in the openness?
    Eden Haiku: Rain dripping in a wooden barrel Bleu...

    Eden winds down the session with a take on a song, that makes us all smile...

    Zen Arado: if there is only now then time doesn't actually exist except as a concept we construct?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: perhaps there isn't even a now . . . .
    Lucinda Lavender: not sure what to say except that in between Before and After ...a tiny thin slice of now...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: so now is infinite :)
    Zen Arado: not even allowed that :)
    Eden Haiku: We all live in a yellow hologram, yellow hologram, yellow hologram...
    Bleu Oleander: try to find "now"
    SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
    Eden Haiku: *in
    Pema Pera: but we're always in the now, Lucinda?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe Eden
    Pema Pera: hehehe indeed!
    Lucinda Lavender: yes and the rest is a story I guess


    Zen Arado: and our friends are all aboard

    sophia Placebo: maybe the ancents who made the anguage didnt have a clock to say 5 mints ago , and as far as the day changes is not that significant since a specifc event happen they call it now , it happenen now ie within this solar hour ?

    Pema Pera: And we lived beneath the waves, In our yellow hologram .... As we live a life of ease

    Eliza Madrigal: talk of no time and 'yet'... I 'still' pick up a daughter 'early' from school 'today'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
    Eliza Madrigal: What a wonderful session. Thanks Everyone :))
    Eden Haiku: Bye Eliza :)
    Bleu Oleander: bye Eliza!
    sophia Placebo: bye Eliza:)
    Zen Arado: bye Eliza:)
    Pema Pera: yes, Sophia, it is probably impossible to imagine what a life without clocks looks like, for us
    Eliza Madrigal: Hugs, Waves ((( )))
    Pema Pera: bye Eiliza!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: have to go myself! Bye everybody! ^^
    Pema Pera: and me 2
    Bleu Oleander: me 3
    Zen Arado: and me
    Lucinda Lavender: Bye to all...I shall go mingle with now
    sophia Placebo: bye Sophia bye Pema
    Zen Arado: bye all
    Pema Pera: thank you all for a fun session!
    Eden Haiku: Me too bye everyone! ;) Nice conversation!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye pema
    Bleu Oleander: bye all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)) haha waves to everyone then
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and sophia
    Zen Arado: thank you
    Pema Pera: bfn
    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone

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