2010.05.16 19:00 - Life, Death, News, War, Science, Dreams

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

    I liked this session for its variety, unpredictability, the feeling of "substance" of the discussion topics, and the abilities of the dialoguists.  It kept changing direction and tone under new influences. 

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Mitzi
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Good evening, Calvino ...
    Calvino Rabeni: What's been happening in your neighborhood of the Great Blue Planet?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: spring snow, lots of rain, Wordpress, spring cleaning, body awareness, conscious graceful movement in everyday activities ...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: and yourself?
    Lucinda Lavender: oops...
    Calvino Rabeni: Green plants, new warm nights, a yearly bicycle race, some mountain biking, nature meditation, "tribal" dancing, chats with friends, and SL
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Cinda
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi All!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hey Lucinda
    Calvino Rabeni: Whenever Lucinda appears, so do my dreams
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Sounds nice there, Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: If the are able :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yes, me too, there's an association that has been instated.
    Lucinda Lavender: I am suddenly switching roles and goin to do that thing...back in a bit if possible...
    Calvino Rabeni: It is funny, our minds are like big social bookmarking services - a little automatic, not quite with concierge service
    Calvino Rabeni: OK LL :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Sure ... can you say more along that vein? the social bookmarking in the mind ...
    Calvino Rabeni: The association is - See LL, do search for dream notes; like a good secretary, the connections set up that might be useful ahead of time - I don't think I pay my "inner executive secretary" enough :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: to some extent, arent the associations automatic as you said, but concierge service being the executive secretary then?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: my grammar is a bit loose tonight it seems! that's because my thought evolves as the sentence gets typed ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Most on automatic - the concierge isn't quite there yet, unless you want to include functions like "prayer", "law of attraction", and so on
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... automatic reaction ... prayer seems concierge-like but law of attraction seems more intuitive or subconscious ... or do you mean trying to use affirmations or whatev er they do in terms of "law of attraction"? In which case, I get you
    Calvino Rabeni: I think so....
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm kind of mockingly calling these "functions" - they deserve a higher designation than that
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: actually I've been contemplating a little on what seems to be the "elephant in the room" in terms of this whole first person empiricism or play as being endeavor ....
    Calvino Rabeni: Partly to be a consideration of the way that such functions are being studied, even productized
    Calvino Rabeni: Well then, elephant? Or the great mechanization
    A visitor shows up, with a sweet and familiar name.
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Love
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: hi Cal and Mitzi
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... namely that as human beings we are governed by a mix of conscious and unconscious causative factors ... which we may or may not acknowledge as much as we should!
    Calvino Rabeni: So true - I was thinking the same recently
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi LovesChocolate! I enjoy your appearance. Nice to meet you.
    Calvino Rabeni: So much of it is unconscious or outside our purview
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: ty nice to meet you too
    Calvino Rabeni: And for that, indirect knowledge means seem indispensable
    Calvino Rabeni: How've you been, LovesChocolate?
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: good ty and you Cal?
    Calvino Rabeni: Very well by all accounts, thanks
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: great to hear :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I think we were casting about for a topic to crystallize
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: what are some examples that occur to you of indirect knowledge?
    Calvino Rabeni: out of what' s in the mix
    Calvino Rabeni: of what we've been thinking about or carrying around
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: indirect knowledge as in castaneda's unordinary reality?
    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking, just the ordinary stuff we are part of, but can't see
    Calvino Rabeni: Unless that is called unordinary because we can't
    Calvino Rabeni: but it is such commonplace stuff
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: stuff that our intuition hits us over the head with but we ignore?
    Calvino Rabeni: Like, the "chemistry" of a group
    Calvino Rabeni: That would be something I experienced, but is hard to know why things happen
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: pheromones ? lol
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes, that's so interesting how we ignore stuff that our intuition hits us over the head with ... why do you think that is, Choc?
    Calvino Rabeni: Then a big impersonal example is - poverty and aid in Africa - which hasn't actually been studied much in a scientific manner
    Calvino Rabeni: GOod question Mitzi
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: we're conditioned by a culture of logice, the media, fear?
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: woulod hunger and poverty come from our fear and scarcity culture?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: indeed, pheromones may be one example of why - group conditioning ...
    Calvino Rabeni: @Loves, I can agree with that as a part of the story surely
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: there are so many interesting psychological studies being done recently
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: the other part might be why we want to be led by these forces...the feeling of wanting to belong which may go back to intuition
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: and also long ago that shed light on some of this
    Calvino Rabeni: If you tried to look at all the possible causative factors, you would get a complex snarl that would be difficult to comprehend, even while probably true
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: well yes, complex snarl ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Nature makes many kinds of phenomena of any level of complexity
    Calvino Rabeni: So there are some that have a balance of subtle interactions
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: true...how can we fundction in utter simplicity?
    Calvino Rabeni: Take the dance, for instance - it is an event that repeats here 3x per week, for years
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I think you are right Chocolate, the feeling of group identity - a powerful causative factor
    Calvino Rabeni: If on this occasion it is "Off" or really different, then why might that be?
    Calvino Rabeni: A mix of subjective and objective factors - with circular causes
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe if the music had been better
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: humans may have a need to have things organized ...routines
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe if the people had wanted to overcome the mediocre music
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: if feels "off" to you - that's quite subjective - did others say so as well?
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe if the drummers had been more energetic - but, they are motivated by the dancers - and vice versa
    Calvino Rabeni: etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it was quite intersubjective.
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: again, everyone trying to belong...
    Calvino Rabeni: I think nearly unanimous, if you took a vote
    Calvino Rabeni: The trying to belong, to make it be "good" in some way, may have lent an air of artificiality, blocked authentic expression,
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: people who are different can scare others lol
    Calvino Rabeni: The desire for it to be "as good as usual", resulting division of attention between feelings and reality, etc.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: so the earlier thought being, how do we as conscious beings grapple with the fact that we do things we didn't mean to do, and don't know why?
    Calvino Rabeni: It is like a large group version of "date night" where some 2 people don't quite mesh
    Calvino Rabeni: Well to continue various ideas from other sessions... one is Ideals
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: .. could be ... or maybe the barometric pressure was just low!
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: human behavior has always stumped me...esp. my own
    Calvino Rabeni: The complex different strategies people use to handle "suffering" probably also apply when it doesn't feel like suffering
    Calvino Rabeni: when things seem good that is
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: do they seem good in contrast to something else?
    Calvino Rabeni: It's still a mystery even with good feedback from other people
    Calvino Rabeni: but a more interesting mystery I think
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'm reminded of the Pink Floyd lyric "... so you think you can tell, heaven from hell ..." we don't even know when we are suffering, half the time, for chrissake!!
    Calvino Rabeni: Imagine your're at a dance, one your're familiar with, but it doesn't seem as fun as usual, the flow is not there, it doesn't "transport" you as much.
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: good reference Mitzi
    Calvino Rabeni: True Mitzi
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: i feel that way when i get bored of something...it gets old
    Calvino Rabeni: And maybe suffering consciously is sometimes more noble than its opposite
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: so cal, I gather your dance was a disapointment ... and you are annoyted with the DJ!
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: anything is better when done conciously :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Not at all, actually. We spoke with the DJ, we were all together
    Calvino Rabeni: Imagine the poor DJ, feeling all responsible for the overall quality
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ah! ...please define "better" Miss Chocolate!
    Calvino Rabeni: Each episode is a wild art painting, or poem, sometimes the Muse is there
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: how did the dj feel then?
    Calvino Rabeni: Mysterious factors at work
    Calvino Rabeni: The DJ said - like - it's not together, I don't like the music, the energy is not there, etc.
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: better=fresher, more intersting
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: sometimes changes of seasons are nexus points where things are disjointed
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't know her actual feelings, but I know some general things about her worldview
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ty choc good clarification
    Calvino Rabeni: The mother's day edition of that event was hot, intense - this one was dissolute - I think we have our personal good and bad days in a similar way
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: well, time to go...thank you two :)
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: nice evenings to you both
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Nice to meet you Chocolate, hope to see you again here!
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: ty :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Very welcome, glad you stopped by Loves
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes, there are many cycles ... an event such as the dance you describe would seem to be a good place to study the complexity ...
    Calvino Rabeni: So in a lot of ways, we just call it a mystery, meaning we can't see all the factors contributing to a Quality
    Calvino Rabeni: As if they just add up together - which of course they don't really
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... since you have a long history of bkgd against which to see the anomalies standing out against the background
    Calvino Rabeni: You got it, Mitzi - it is a repetitive event, you can study the variations
    Calvino Rabeni: LIke a weekly party
    Calvino Rabeni: Like a daily formal meditation
    Calvino Rabeni: or other cyclic events
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: that's why it's nice to have situations like thatin our lives - gives a depth against which to view the subtler variations
    Calvino Rabeni: Yup
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: it's an art! the fun of life - the occasional aha! when we think we make a previously-unnoticed correlation
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Jenn Ravenheart :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Logic honors the stong connections, but we live in a world of subtle weak connections
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes! very important!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: in chaos theory, these subtle weak connections can from time to time converge to be powerful.
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes true
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi Jenn. Just talking about life and why things are sometimes one way and other times another and we don't really know why ...
    Calvino Rabeni: I was looking at this theme in varous places - the traditions of selective engagement with the simpler aspects of life, and the biases that it creates
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... but we enjoy speculating anyway!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: biases such as ... ?
    Calvino Rabeni: There are a lot of fantasies - are there not?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: indeed
    Calvino Rabeni: Such as - well if I got my methodology right, I'd find the simple axioms, or if only I got my head on straight, life would seem simple and elegant -
    Calvino Rabeni: Science and religion seem to have that in common, at least in their "modernist" forms
    Calvino Rabeni: The assumption or search for simplicity
    Calvino Rabeni: the idea that Beauty or Correctness or whatever, is defined on thos terms
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: well, calvino, I like those fantasties ... not sure those specific impulses should be characterized that way (as fantasies) ... seems dismissive?
    Calvino Rabeni: What make a good theory, or a good piece of art; aesthetic standard that are classical
    Calvino Rabeni: If you say - ideals have some force -
    Calvino Rabeni: They guide attention
    Calvino Rabeni: But fly in the face of all kinds of observations and experiences
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: what about Occam's Razor? It's an elegant idea that has also proven to have real scientific power.
    Calvino Rabeni: Your question earlier was I think just that - how to deal with the discrepancies
    Calvino Rabeni: The fact that it is "proven" is a self-fulfilling thing rather than an open-system kind of proof
    Calvino Rabeni: it means, using that heuristic enabled science to master the phenomena that actually are simple
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: supposedly Einstein did not like having to use a different type of hygiene product for shaving and for bathing ... felt inelegant to thim.
    Calvino Rabeni: but not all the others
    Calvino Rabeni: and those are the difficult problems
    Calvino Rabeni: or have become so, because in part, the simple ones have been engaged effectively
    Calvino Rabeni: What happens when you get to the boundaries of an effective heuristic?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I feel ike arguing with you somehow
    Calvino Rabeni: (here lie dragons)
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe I sound polemic :)
    Stevenaia comes on the scene, bringing the Tao of steve quality to the group. 
    stevenaia Michinaga: finally pillows rezzed, evening
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: what does polemic mean?
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polemic
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi Stevenaia, nice to see you again (it's been awhile)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was just looking that very word up
    Calvino Rabeni: It means, a piece of rhetoric addressing a particular point of view, with the assumption that it requires persuasion or proof
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... or, have we met before? Perhaps you looked differently? I seem to recogbnize your name.
    stevenaia Michinaga: it has been quite a while beyond the horizon of an easilly graspable memory (mine)
    Calvino Rabeni: Summer wardrobe - you didn't see his tatoo before :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: but yes, your name is familair :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, they were under my winter sweater
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: why do I feel like arguing ... yes, perhaps it seems you are inauthentically pushing a particularl viewpoint, just to provoke controversy, instead of delving into the available subtleties ...
    Calvino Rabeni: I suppose I must feel it necessary, that the subtleties are covered over by the assumption that things must be simple
    Calvino Rabeni: Kind of a circular dilemma
    Calvino Rabeni: So, I'm actually trying to make space to prop open the door for those subtleties
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: As when you said, in ref to Occam's Razor, "The fact that it is "proven" is a self-fulfilling thing rather than an open-system kind of proof" ... well yes, possibly, but not necessarily, or obviously ... so responding in that way seemed to cut off opening up the door, to me anway
    Calvino Rabeni: OK
    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah, it makes it seem a declaration more than a possibility that way that is framed
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Yes ... Stevenaia - your chest decoration rivets my attention!
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni rivets own attention on same thing
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: also I probably felt like my thought re: Occam's razor was being dissed by you ... so I felt a bit miffed to be honest
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: not that I want you to treat me as delicate! Just mentioning a possible emotional undertow.
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, it's part of a set of questions I honestly feel are up for grabs, or ought to be, in the new struggle in which science is confronting complex systems
    Calvino Rabeni: It might pay to question the assumed fundamentals
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Occam's razor?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I absolutely agree that is pays to question the assumed fundamentals.
    Calvino Rabeni: At "edge.org" - are you familiar with that crew?
    Calvino Rabeni: Kind of - scientists talk informally about philosophy
    Calvino Rabeni: And not how it should be, but in a personal way
    Calvino Rabeni: using contemplative leading questions
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: In the questioning of assumed fundamentals, we should not throw out babies with bathwater, but become very courious about the relatioinship between babies and their bathwater.
    Calvino Rabeni: An example question like - what do you feel optimistic about, in the current world?
    Calvino Rabeni: Hopefully the baby is not stuck in the basin
    Calvino Rabeni: One strategy is take the baby, keep the bathwater a while too
    Calvino Rabeni: Anyway, one of the "optimistic about" essays was - Mabye we are getting past "monocausalitis" - the idea that all phenomena have one or a few simple "causes" - when basically, we just don't know how the complex situations work!
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: women's empowerment in poor countries ... such as the microenterprises supported by the Nobel Peace Prize winner Yunus whatever his name is...
    Calvino Rabeni: Kiva.org and related microlenders?
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I don't see a lot of evidence for that in the American public consciousness ... perhaps a few are getting past monocausalities.
    Calvino Rabeni: It's part of the fabric of culture - maybe even of our brains
    stevenaia Michinaga: certainly not in politics
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: that's what I was thinking too
    Calvino Rabeni: Politics isn't a good example of the functioning of intelligence, unless you look at the bigger picture in which all the little silly things, compete in some useful larger dialectic
    Calvino Rabeni: But put the "probe" to sample any bit of politics, and it doesn't look like intelligence
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe neither would a probe in one area of my brain
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: looking at politics is something that does *not* evoke optimism for me ... other areas do though ...
    Calvino Rabeni: Same here :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: yet it has the potential to be perpetual
    stevenaia Michinaga: at least for the past 2000_ years
    Calvino Rabeni: Perpetual ... what ? Maintaining a level of ignorance?
    stevenaia Michinaga: just the system
    Calvino Rabeni: But what if we take seriously the reasonable-seeming idea of bounded rationality - that our brains and personal intelligence are rather limited in their encounter with Reality?
    Calvino Rabeni: That idea has worked its way into religion both in the positive and negative forms
    Calvino Rabeni: But suppose it is true - in the limited contexts in which it is?
    Calvino Rabeni: Then a lot depends on findiing ways to break out of that circle
    Calvino Rabeni: And it would be - I guess hubris - to assume there is no "ourside"the circle, or that it doesn't matterer
    stevenaia Michinaga: if the systems is adaptible (Flexible) then it is not doomed to "Maintaining a level of ignorance?"
    Calvino Rabeni: What do we believe about this question - also how do we "hold" those beliefs?
    stevenaia Michinaga: (infected with optimisum)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I feel optimistic that the more separated tribal cultures start to know other cultures ...
    Calvino Rabeni: I have optimisims and inspirations too
    stevenaia Michinaga: beliefs also need to be adaptable
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... and the more we all interact around the globe .. the more we inevitably must focus on the similarities and not the differences (and dangers) of the other ...
    Calvino Rabeni: they don't hold up to logic - but enter the realm of assumptions or faith
    Calvino Rabeni: But worth taking about :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... think how much more positive life could be once institutionalized violence (war) is reduced
    Calvino Rabeni: I was reading an article about the strategy of Google relative to the news industry
    stevenaia Michinaga: the letting go if human insecurity resulting in nothing to fight over?
    Calvino Rabeni: It made me feel optimistic; my friend dismissed it as not that way
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: war diverts resources and traumatizes individuals such that their potential genius doesn't get to develop.
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe we don't need bullets and bombs, true
    Calvino Rabeni: There agan,you have a "wicked problem" perhaps due to it's complexity - with all the potential causative factors for war
    Calvino Rabeni: beliefs, values, environment, money systems, poverty, climate, models of human nature - which of those don't play some role in which war is an expression of part of the whole phenomenon
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I think that competitive sports provide an effective way to channel or sublimate if you will the competitive energy of humans
    stevenaia Michinaga: or reinforce such behavior
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not defending war, but I'd guess - it resists "solving" similar to how poverty does - in fact, to "solve" poverty, I'd guess, the solutions would handle war also
    Calvino Rabeni: Competitive many things could sublimiate it
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: it's a good point for discussion stevenaia ... I think there's some inborn competitiveness that needs an outlet, within limits
    Calvino Rabeni: But isn't there a draw, to have something take the effort, and make it seem *really important* ?
    Calvino Rabeni: More important than Games
    Calvino Rabeni: Competition in businesses takes on that importance too
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes ... so that drive to war would have to be balanced against other instinctive drives
    Calvino Rabeni: Something in the human spirit rebells against comfort and complacencyh
    Calvino Rabeni: Many religions tried to channel this impulse
    stevenaia Michinaga: so may ways to exploit that w/o going to war
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: so if going to war with Japan means we lose access to consumer goods from there which we value and love ... we're less likely to shoot ourselves in our consumer foot
    Calvino Rabeni: the stuggle against things (somewhat abstracted) like "our lower nature", Sin, Ego, etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: Agree Steve
    Calvino Rabeni: My own belief is, the killing wars are unnecessary
    Calvino Rabeni: but the archetype of Struggle is probably necessary
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I don't think we can realistically struggle successfully against our energetic drives, but as you say, Cal, there are many ways to channel it that are more productive, or at least less destructive.
    Calvino Rabeni: Agree, Mitzi
    stevenaia Michinaga: and the energy can be better used elsewhere to tbe benefit of many
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: This is an inner meaning of the (maligned in the West) word "jihad"
    stevenaia Michinaga: like the concept of energy efficiency baling an economy more robsust in the end, an only recenlty acceted concept
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: So all that makes me feel optimistic - as the world become sincreasingly interconnected, the idea of killing each other becomes increasingly not useful to more people's purposes.
    Calvino Rabeni: So the Google story seemed optimisitc since they use big-picture thinking
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: go one?
    Calvino Rabeni: Rather than just deciding to exploit the news as information, they realize they are part of a huge changing system and the whole thing has to work
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: so how's that different in practice from their previous viewpoint?
    Calvino Rabeni: So they' try to be conscious players in the bigger system, kind of like "sustainability"
    Calvino Rabeni: They realize, they create disruptive technology
    Calvino Rabeni: It undercuts the very source of what they have to offer
    Calvino Rabeni: if there's no good information, there's not so much reason for Google (other than as a shopping engine)
    Calvino Rabeni: And as a whole, people need more than just product specs, they need a world and need to make sense of it
    Calvino Rabeni: News for all its limits, is a big way that happens
    Calvino Rabeni: I was interested - one of their execs was bemoaning the fact that there is so much "herd mentality"
    Calvino Rabeni: there are 1000 instances of the same interpretation about world events
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Nice ... I'm glad to hear that they are thinking on such a scale. Let's hear it for nerds from Silicon Valley and how they (we?) can change the world!
    Calvino Rabeni: I assumed it was due to copying
    Calvino Rabeni: And possibly, propaganda like control
    Calvino Rabeni: But the google idea seemed a little different, somewhat more optimistic
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: or, the " hundredth monkey" phenomenon
    Calvino Rabeni: the idea is, it will be *interesting* to people to have a plurality of points of view
    Calvino Rabeni: That is why the blogosphere is a growing thing
    Calvino Rabeni: but in the choke-points - like google is a clearinghouse or air traffic control engine for information
    Calvino Rabeni: the plurality doesn't pass through very well ... yet.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Facebook might be a counterexample - they have effectively minimized some of those bottlenecks or choke oints for the average person.
    Calvino Rabeni: WB, Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: thanks...
    A new visitor, brings a life story that changes the tone of the group.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello XYZ, feel free to join us
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi CInda
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: HI Mitzi,Stevenaia,
    Lucinda Lavender: Cal...
    Calvino Rabeni: Hello, XYZ - would you like to join is?
    Calvino Rabeni: *us
    Calvino Rabeni: I can give you a notecard about the group
    XYZ Sewell: if i can get this silly new viewer to work
    XYZ Sewell: what's up here?
    stevenaia Michinaga: we are a discussion group
    Calvino Rabeni: This is a discussion group called PlayAsBeing
    stevenaia Michinaga: we meet every 6 hours here :)
    Calvino Rabeni: What we do is more, open dialogue, than debate
    Calvino Rabeni: we study things happening in our lifes and awareness, and then discuss them here
    XYZ Sewell: ok, but i'll just listen a few minutes ,t hen need to sleep
    Calvino Rabeni: OK
    Calvino Rabeni: We have a recorder in the pool
    stevenaia Michinaga: sometimes we do have that affect
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: so advise newcomers that what we all say gets posted on our wiki
    XYZ Sewell: read my profile, you'll get a clue
    Calvino Rabeni: I guess I wasn't too perceptive about your profile -
    XYZ Sewell: it's been a wild 5 weeks
    Calvino Rabeni: What happened, XYZ?
    Calvino Rabeni: In the 5 weeks that is
    XYZ Sewell: got cancer, it was removed, it's like it never happened lol
    XYZ Sewell: except a will take a little pill every morning
    Calvino Rabeni: Wow
    XYZ Sewell: the diagnosis was 5 weeks ago
    stevenaia Michinaga: wow, your profile wasn;t kidding about Wednesday
    XYZ Sewell: yea
    Calvino Rabeni: That would be a big shakeup, I've never had something like that
    stevenaia Michinaga: congratulations
    XYZ Sewell: i don't feel like i did eiether
    XYZ Sewell: either*
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: has it tranformed you in any way that you can speak to?
    XYZ Sewell: anyway, that's why bedtime soon
    Calvino Rabeni: Literally Wednesday -whew, that went right past me :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: other than perhaps a few pounds lighter
    XYZ Sewell: no, my life is exactly the same
    XYZ Sewell: lol
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: thanks for revealing that, XYZ, I feel impacted!
    Calvino Rabeni: Same here
    Lucinda Lavender: yes..
    stevenaia Michinaga: no reflective moments?
    XYZ Sewell: well, while i was in the hospital, my cousin was dying
    stevenaia Michinaga: not big questions?
    XYZ Sewell: so i thought of her more than me
    XYZ Sewell: my reflection is that something like this was once devestating, not is routine and easily cured
    XYZ Sewell: cancer loses some of it's power over us when it is this easy
    stevenaia Michinaga: lucky
    XYZ Sewell: was paying attention to my body
    Lucinda Lavender: Do you listen to music much? during this time?
    XYZ Sewell: nothing more than usual
    XYZ Sewell: i am back to roller skating, dancing, home improvement chores
    XYZ Sewell: i really feel exactly the same as before
    Lucinda Lavender: saw the Beatles shirt...
    Calvino Rabeni: I've been lucky with health - only had these things as fantasies - like, I'd have a talk with my Maker etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: Somehow I can't be bothered with the "little" health things we're supposed to do :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: xyz ... I'm wondering if it all seems too fast ... that maybe you wish you felt more impacted? Or am I just projecting my own wonderings?
    Calvino Rabeni: Same question here :)
    XYZ Sewell: lol, are you suggesting i didn't get the full-fledged cancer "experience"?
    XYZ Sewell: we have our own color ribbon after all
    stevenaia Michinaga: laughs, yup, you were obviously short changed
    XYZ Sewell: of course, i'm still young lol
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, well knowing myself I'd probably milk it for what it is worth :)
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: yes, something like that...!
    XYZ Sewell: to be honest, my acl injury 3 yrs ago was worse
    Calvino Rabeni: Still young .. that's good... I think my warranty expired :)
    XYZ Sewell: if you get what i had, just fine a good surgeon
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Monti
    XYZ Sewell: sorry i don't have words of wisdom, haha, perhaps that is the blessing that i was given
    Another new visitor literally stumbles into the group, and is very forthright about it too.  I quite remember those days of the avatar lurching from place to place, overshooting, turning around.
    Monti Bonetto: Hello
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    XYZ Sewell: i can maintain my shallow nature
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    XYZ Sewell: anyways, gotta run
    stevenaia Michinaga: monti, we record what is said here, is it ok if we include your comments
    Calvino Rabeni: Sleep well, bye XYZ
    XYZ Sewell: thanx calv
    XYZ Sewell: c ya all
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: go well!
    Lucinda Lavender: nice to meet you XYZ...
    stevenaia Michinaga: I;ve give you a short description of our group
    Monti Bonetto: I'm new and very clumsy
    stevenaia Michinaga: have a seat
    stevenaia Michinaga: relax
    Monti Bonetto: How?
    stevenaia Michinaga: right click on the pillow
    stevenaia Michinaga: select sit here
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: says you are 3 years old
    Monti Bonetto: I joined 3 years ago and never played
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ha ha I was thinking you were asking "how to relax?" ... and I was going to say (cleverly) that's the deepest question posed here all night!
    Monti Bonetto: I mean explored
    Monti Bonetto: what are we doing here?
    stevenaia Michinaga: our group is called Play as Being
    Monti Bonetto: IS there any way you can make me sit like a man?
    Monti Bonetto: I look like a lady
    stevenaia Michinaga: click the pillow
    stevenaia Michinaga: feel better?
    Monti Bonetto: Im learning!
    stevenaia Michinaga: we record our session and post them to the groups Wiki, is that ok to include your comments?
    Monti Bonetto: Sure.
    Monti Bonetto: Whats the topic?
    Calvino Rabeni: Most recently, surviving cancer
    Calvino Rabeni: We have these pauses of silence, a chance to check into awareness
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: ... companionable ... and contemplative ... are we all thinkng of our mortality?
    stevenaia Michinaga: in the broadest sence our topic is the explorations of "the Nature of Reality"
    stevenaia Michinaga: it covers much
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Nature of reality, including the personal side of it
    stevenaia Michinaga: it must start somewhere
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Monti Bonetto: Hmmmm. Well......I have never had cancer and therefore haven't survived it....yet.
    Monti Bonetto: Lost my Aunt to it about 1 month ago. Very sad.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: some have said that cancer is the best way to go in terms of conscious dying ... you have the leisure to reflect on your life and go with awareness. A blessing in that way
    Monti Bonetto: I don't know about the best way. I have seen lots of suffering.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: is suffering a bad thing?
    Monti Bonetto: Perhaps the best way to go is old age.
    Monti Bonetto: Living s full life and prepared for the next journey.
    Monti Bonetto: I would like to see my children grow up, live wonderful lives, have children and enjoy watching them grow.
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I'd like to feel I made much of the opportunities presented by life ... however long I might live
    Calvino Rabeni: In my fantasy, life is a 19th century train, at some point the track goes off a cliff, but I don't know when and choose to enjoy the club car meanwhile
    Monti Bonetto: As I get older, I appreciate my time here more and more. I try to make the best of everything. Being a father has thusfar been the best thing to happen to me.
    Lucinda Lavender: Today I was happy to watch my son perform in the coffee house where my husband and I met...:)
    Calvino Rabeni: But looking back, I do feel I've made much of opportunities
    Calvino Rabeni: I don't think I'll be disappointed when the train goes over the abyss
    Calvino Rabeni: That's touching, Monti
    stevenaia Michinaga: bed time for me, night all, good seing you agin Mitzi
    Monti Bonetto: Today I was happy to work with my son in the yard. We edged our beds and planted some flowers. He's 3 y/o and couldn't wait to water those flowers.
    Calvino Rabeni: Night, Stevenaia
    Monti Bonetto: Night
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice meeting you Monti
    Calvino Rabeni: Dream well
    Lucinda Lavender: there are ways that we are learning to move beyond obstBye Steve...acles
    Monti Bonetto: He has cool pants
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: oops...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Good evening stevenaia, pleasant dreams.
    Lucinda Lavender: I meant to say obstacles...that word looks funny...
    Calvino Rabeni: It's the insert button on yr keyboard Lucinda
    Lucinda Lavender: ?
    Calvino Rabeni: sometimes the texts get mixed
    Lucinda Lavender: ah
    Monti Bonetto: I guess I will head out. I'm looking for some cool places to visit. Any suggestions? Anyone want to go dancing?
    Calvino Rabeni: No thanks Monti,
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm danced out for right now :))
    Lucinda Lavender: must sleep soon...
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: I liked yours though Cinda - obstBye Steveacles!
    Monti Bonetto: Nice meeting all of you.
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...have fun...
    Calvino Rabeni: Likewise monti, be well
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Sounds like the gathering is dispersing ...
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, I sense things winding down too
    Calvino Rabeni: One never knows what will happen here, or quite how it will end
    Mitzi Mimistrobell: Lots of people came through this evening... very interesting!
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: (mini version of life)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that's a little different
    Calvino Rabeni: Cinda, in my dream, I had an antique car collection
    Calvino Rabeni: That seems pretty random :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Colors?
    Calvino Rabeni: And worked in a big private laboratory
    Calvino Rabeni: I know that image came from a new yorker article I read
    Lucinda Lavender: I think perhaps today in Seattle a VW club must have met...
    Lucinda Lavender: SAw many
    Calvino Rabeni: Colors - lots, shiny white and red, green, blue, chrome, lots of curves
    Lucinda Lavender: the vehicles that carry our consciousness
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I guess, old parts, if they are antique cars
    Lucinda Lavender: the old consciousness being witnessed...
    Calvino Rabeni: right, like a storehouse - a lot of awareness collected in one place
    Lucinda Lavender: White, Ecstasy...
    Lucinda Lavender: Did you see anything older moving today?
    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm, at a big dance, there was a man, looked about 88 - 85
    Calvino Rabeni: I meant 80-85
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting...
    Lucinda Lavender: the storehouse of Movement
    Calvino Rabeni: Mitzi crashed in a timely manner - I'd guess, not to return
    Calvino Rabeni: Sends her regards, surely
    Lucinda Lavender: Bye Mitzi...
    Lucinda Lavender: Interesting that we can age and carry movement still...
    Calvino Rabeni: Storehouse - there's a storehouse of dreams too, I suppose
    Lucinda Lavender: Today perhaps you were to receive some of that energy
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, what if people danced every day of the life, I suppose at 85 they'd be more wiggly and supple than common today
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: a good idea...
    Calvino Rabeni: I was reading another book sound, music, mantras etc.
    Lucinda Lavender: yes?
    Lucinda Lavender: Sounds...interesting.
    Lucinda Lavender: I had best be going...
    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks Cinda
    Lucinda Lavender: See you...thank you...
    Calvino Rabeni: Dream well Lucinda
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...and you
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