2010.05.17 13:00 - Run Wild, Run Free

    The Guardian for this meeting was Mickorod Renard.

    Mickorod Renard: Hiya guys
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: hi Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: hey,,i wanted to ask you something
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure go ahead.
    Mickorod Renard: did I see something about dreams today?
    Mickorod Renard: please
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya! Hi Mick :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :)
    Mickorod Renard: I thought it had your name on the notecard
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Eliza
    Gaya Ethaniel: What's 'it'?
    Mickorod Renard: maybe I got mixed up
    Mickorod Renard: dream workshop
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
    Bleu Oleander: hi everyone
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... yes I'm covering Vic so sending Kira notices for a bit.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bleu :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Maybe you're wondering about ways of knowing Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: perhaps i got it mixed cos I was deleting a mass of notecards without reading them
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Bleu
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Tomorrow 1 pm SLT is Dream Workshop and WoK is on 2:30 pm SLT on Thursday.
    Mickorod Renard: ahh,,maybe your notecard was the Wok
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I wud luv to do the wok,,but I am so overloaded at the moment
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I can understand that.
    Mickorod Renard: I have the book
    Gaya Ethaniel: What book?
    Gaya Ethaniel: btb
    Mickorod Renard: ohh,,sorry,,the time space and knowledge
    Mickorod Renard: see,,I am cracking under the strain
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: mad laughter
    Eliza Madrigal: Time... have been thinking about Bleu's project idea... hm... how to snapshot time
    Eliza Madrigal: "Here is time at the beach"
    Bleu Oleander: it's challenging
    Eliza Madrigal: "Here is time on parade"
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,thats what I need to do,,just stop time for a whoile
    Eliza Madrigal: "Here is the time Mick was reading TSK"
    Bleu Oleander: photography stops time in a sense
    Eliza Madrigal: yes!
    Mickorod Renard: yes, thats true
    Bleu Oleander: it will be interesting to see what everyone comes up with
    Mickorod Renard: I dug out the old slr the other week
    Mickorod Renard: real pics are so much better
    Agatha Macbeth: Hai hai hai people :)
    Bleu Oleander: hey Agatha
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ags
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Agatha :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha :)
    Mickorod Renard: unfortunately the light meter has packed up in the old camera
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: hello all :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello LC
    Bleu Oleander: hi LC
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Loves
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Loves :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Click that fountain Mick :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Loves
    Gaya Ethaniel: I haven't read TSK ... it's not a requirement at WoK btw.
    Mickorod Renard: just done it thanks Ags
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm reading it again ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: But not for WoK
    Mickorod Renard: I need to find time to read it
    Eliza Madrigal: Ask time to give you time, Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))))
    Mickorod Renard: what do u have for Wok Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Nothing ... me and myself and me ... and etc.
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Agatha Macbeth: All WoK and no play...
    Mickorod Renard: wow,,sounds good
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's fun :)
    Mickorod Renard: I liked Wok so much
    Mickorod Renard: and I think it gave me lots too
    Eliza Madrigal: Its kept going pretty strongly Mick... some great discussions
    Eliza Madrigal: all posted
    Mickorod Renard: I must read up on it
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Of course we miss Stim still, but he's there in a way, as we all learned so much from him and

    reread things, etc :)
    Mickorod Renard: does Stim attend?
    Eliza Madrigal: See above :)
    Mickorod Renard: eeek,,out of sinc there
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well in sync... we thought of him at the same 'time'
    Mickorod Renard: great minds and all that
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Sync or swim
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: lol
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I was in a rush as usual this morning,,to get to work
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Agatha Macbeth is usually in a rush to get away from it
    Mickorod Renard: but the countryside is so beautiful it slowed me down
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice!
    Mickorod Renard: and all i saw was fantastic
    Agatha Macbeth: Aw
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: take time to smell the roses....
    Mickorod Renard: well,,i had a cigar,,that smelt nice
    Agatha Macbeth sighs
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: cigars, roses...it's all matter
    Mickorod Renard: but I am so fortunate
    Eliza Madrigal: When I would drive my son to school last year, we'd pass by a pasture with sheep... it always set

    the day in a nice tone... to see them wandering, grazing...
    Agatha Macbeth: Havana?
    Mickorod Renard: I can say I love where I am
    Mickorod Renard: just some lil de stressing ones
    Bleu Oleander: nice to be able to say that Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: absolutely
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: love those days when that happens...
    Mickorod Renard: yes, I have sheep just opposite,,in the fieldf
    Eliza Madrigal: would your family mind moving out for a week so you can host a retreat, Mick? hhehe
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds so nice
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I used to have lots of roses but this new place I got doesnt have any,,not sure about the soil yet,,I

    got azalias
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: it's springtime, our Jasmine is in bloom
    Mickorod Renard: I love Jasmine
    Agatha Macbeth: Thought it was mine at first, but another two have appeared below it
    Eliza Madrigal: mmmm jasmine...
    Bleu Oleander: where is that LC?
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: los angeles
    Mickorod Renard: had lots in france,,would last a while too
    Agatha Macbeth: Whoa
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, yes, damn
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Eliza Madrigal watched L.A. Story last night... :)
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: funny movier
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: is everyone here from the UK?
    Eliza Madrigal: sweet film, yes
    Eliza Madrigal is from Florida
    Mickorod Renard: I am
    Agatha Macbeth: well, I am
    Bleu Oleander: phoenix
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: oh okay :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm in UK too :)
    Mickorod Renard: do you have horses Bleu?
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: Bleu, you do look like a person from Pheonix :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Been a bit warmer today
    Bleu Oleander: no horses, just dogs
    Eliza Madrigal: that sound as large as horses :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Not so easy to ride tho
    Bleu Oleander: as big as
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: hehe
    Eliza Madrigal: So will you plant roses, Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: I am thinking of doing so , yes
    Mickorod Renard: they suit the uk well
    Eliza Madrigal: I've found them difficult to maintain... can only seem to keep the tiny ones going
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: but perhaps the UK conditions are better
    Agatha Macbeth: Well, they must be good for something ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Mickorod Renard: I do have a tiny one here,,I bought it on mothers day for partner
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice
    Mickorod Renard: but it looked like it had died,,over watered
    Mickorod Renard: so I saved it from the bin
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well I've heard in UK that one can tell by roses how a good gardener one is. [has]
    Mickorod Renard: and now its ok
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: roses can be tempermental it seems
    Gaya Ethaniel: Mick must have amazing green fingers.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: cigar remnants must be good for plants
    Mickorod Renard: nooo,,I am rubbish at gardening
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Mickorod Renard: but roses have suited my style in the past
    Gaya Ethaniel: Mick and cigars, inseparable.
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: lol Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I was happy to see that gardenias planted a few years ago, bloomed just a few weeks ago...
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd forgotten they were there, and then 'tada'
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: they smell lovely
    Bleu Oleander: love gardenias
    Mickorod Renard: fantastic
    Eliza Madrigal: they remind me of my great grandmother "Meme"
    Agatha Macbeth: Good name!
    Mickorod Renard: I was thinkin that
    Eliza Madrigal: and the window of my childhood home that I could see them through... along with the moon :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: nice!
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Mickorod Renard: lovely
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, well thats what I called her... her actual name was Whilehmina
    Eliza Madrigal: bad spelling...
    Agatha Macbeth: Cute :)
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: Meme is perhaps better
    Eliza Madrigal: Whilhemina*
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Zon
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe Loves
    Agatha Macbeth: Still cute, tho
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon :)
    Mickorod Renard: I am going to get a wisteria
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Zon :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ahhh, nice too
    Bleu Oleander: hi Zon
    Mickorod Renard: I left a nice one in france
    Agatha Macbeth can't see Zon
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: Please excuse me, back to work now :)
    Eliza Madrigal: beautiful sari Loves, bye for now
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: take care all
    Mickorod Renard: bye Loves
    LovesChocolate Macpherson: ty Eliza
    Agatha Macbeth: Take it easy LC :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Loves :)
    Bleu Oleander: bye LC
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,take it easy
    Gaya Ethaniel: We planted some Begonia last year but it seems that foxes dugged them out over the winter :( I saw

    how they get into the garden so got the opening blocked.
    Eliza Madrigal: foxes are difficult to block out
    Eliza Madrigal: so smart
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,them foxes can be a prob
    Agatha Macbeth: I get foxes in my garden too sometimes
    Zon Quar: heya
    Eliza Madrigal: heeeyyyaaa
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zon (finally!)
    Mickorod Renard: I dont,,I hope
    Eliza Madrigal has never seen a fox 'in the wild' but the zoo here tried to keep some for a while and just gave up...

    they kept undoing everything and escaping,etc
    Agatha Macbeth: Hello Cal :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cal :) feeling contemplative again?
    Bleu Oleander: hi Cal
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Cal
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Calvino :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Thanks for cleaning up my post of the Guardian Session Cal :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Hi all
    Zon Quar: cal
    Calvino Rabeni: NP Aggers
    Mickorod Renard: I have to look out for deer here,,I nearly got one on my bike the other day,,it wrecjked 2 cars

    just in front o me
    Zon Quar: shh
    Mickorod Renard: :(
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeah shhhhhh
    Eliza Madrigal shusshes the shhh'ers
    Agatha Macbeth: Ssh
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Zon Quar: no laughing
    Eliza Madrigal: no correcting laughing during the pause
    Gaya Ethaniel: rofl
    Agatha Macbeth remembers the Muppets 'knock off the knock it offs'
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: I was picturing a scene from 'Shall We Dance'
    Agatha Macbeth: ??
    Eliza Madrigal: the 1930s film, not a recent one... Fred /Ginger...
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Mickorod Renard: well,,thats diferent
    Eliza Madrigal: audience shushing from balcony... and then visa versa...
    Eliza Madrigal: cute scene
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Agatha Macbeth smiles
    Mickorod Renard: cant picture it in my head I am affraid
    Eliza Madrigal: can you picture it somewhere else?
    Agatha Macbeth: Was that the one where they were dancing ;-)
    Eliza Madrigal guffaws
    Mickorod Renard: I think it must have been a womans film
    Agatha Macbeth: Probably
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
    Agatha Macbeth: Hi Ara :)
    Gaya Ethaniel thinks Eliza is infected with giggling bug.
    Bleu Oleander: hi Ara
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaah... perhaps
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
    Agatha Macbeth: It's contagious Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: am familiar with the dancing in the rain scene
    Zon Quar: i can picture dancing in the rain
    Zon Quar: lol
    Gaya Ethaniel nods :)
    Zon Quar: sync
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Eliza Madrigal: That's Gene Kelley
    Agatha Macbeth: gene Kelly or Eric Morcambe?
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm singin in the rain... just singin in the rain
    Zon Quar: and also in colcwork orange
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,the eric morc,one was great
    Agatha Macbeth: Gene kelly was in Clockwork Orange?
    Calvino Rabeni: Was he "Cosmo"?
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha I wouldn't be surprised
    Agatha Macbeth: Smallpiece
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Liza
    Liza Deischer: hi everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: walk on part in the show
    Calvino Rabeni: Dancing with the sofa
    Zon Quar: dancingin the rain was
    Bleu Oleander: hi Liza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Liza :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Liza
    Agatha Macbeth: Hiya Liza
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Liza :)
    Zon Quar: Ara. Liza
    Agatha Macbeth is sitting between a Liza and an Eliza :)
    Liza Deischer: both sometimes refered to as Liz :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Yep
    Mickorod Renard: I cant say I was ever into dancing,,but I wanted too,,I think u can get lost in it,,like a meditation
    Agatha Macbeth nods
    Bleu Oleander: need to drop the cigar though
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: But not in a rubbish bin
    Eliza Madrigal: I agree,,, there is a letting go and taking in, to dancing
    Eliza Madrigal: and breathing.... watching... appreciating
    Mickorod Renard: sounds like smoking cigars
    Calvino Rabeni: Dancing is great for releasing the tensions of SL
    Zon Quar: in sl dancinf is so easy
    Gaya Ethaniel: Mick!
    Eliza Madrigal: the tensions of SL
    Agatha Macbeth grins
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Zon Quar: just cick a ball
    Zon Quar: clicl
    Zon Quar: gr
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Agatha Macbeth: :D
    Zon Quar: click
    Eliza Madrigal: clicking can be pretty tough
    Zon Quar: there
    Calvino Rabeni: Meaning RL dancing to clear the confusions of the energy body that accumulate in SL
    Agatha Macbeth: So can cicing
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,very tricky sometimes
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Calvino... a good idea!
    Zon Quar: confusions of energy body ?
    Mickorod Renard: I used to enjoy a sort of free running
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes me too Mick
    Zon Quar: are we geting confused here
    Agatha Macbeth: As always
    arabella Ella: which energy confusions Calvino ... please cud u say more?
    Zon Quar: my head is always so clear here
    Zon Quar: contrary to rl
    Agatha Macbeth: (Not so his typing :))
    arabella Ella: mine too :)
    Mickorod Renard: rl is getting very confusing
    Zon Quar: perhap it is this typing
    Agatha Macbeth: Could be
    Calvino Rabeni: Our mind / body is a unity - to imagine things, but not move the physical body (which happens in

    SL and RL too) means to create a lot of subliminal tensions - these can accumulate
    Calvino Rabeni: they are incompleted motions of the full bodymind
    Agatha Macbeth: Just what I was thinking too :)
    Calvino Rabeni: it is similar to like, when you feel "incomplete" after an intereaction with someone in RL
    Eliza Madrigal: Coming here can feel clarifying because we're setting aside the time/focus, in a sense... we make

    a choice for attention to be 'taken in'?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: A residual tension - because something was not expressed completely
    Mickorod Renard: I understand completely Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: and you body remembers it, but not your mind
    Calvino Rabeni: Some secret desire perhaps - still held inside
    Zon Quar: hm..how abaiut sportmen that use mind exercise¨s
    Eliza Madrigal: hm, interesting
    arabella Ella: but you just said mind and body are totally integrated?
    Mickorod Renard: a friend of mine explained this to me once
    arabella Ella: (sort of)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes it's used a lot in martial arts and athletics
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think it's difficult to apply that to all situations Calvino. SL can be useful for letting go of

    identification with one's body too.
    Calvino Rabeni: I believe there's no situation where one is not a unity
    Gaya Ethaniel: But yes dancing and other activities can be a practice to converge mind/body.
    Calvino Rabeni: you pick up tensions in the social sphere also
    arabella Ella: if it is as you say Calvino would it also apply to people who have to spend their working day at a

    keyboard and staring into a monitor?
    Calvino Rabeni: the dancing can express, concentrate, or release the energies
    Mickorod Renard: I love that feeling when u can let all that physical tension out,,in a massive spurt
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Ara
    Calvino Rabeni: that builds great tension
    Calvino Rabeni: repetitive stress etc. is not all mechanical problem
    Zon Quar: mind can release its tensions too
    Calvino Rabeni: TO let it out in a big spurt - first must be felt and concentrated together
    Zon Quar: like dancinf in sl can be very relaxing
    Mickorod Renard: you can sometimes almost see the sinuous routing as the energy finds ways of flowing as u

    build up the expenditure
    Eliza Madrigal: yes Zon
    Mickorod Renard: shame I am tame now
    Mickorod Renard: :(
    Zon Quar: and they use sl for handicap ppl and have positive results
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: mental rehearsals are quite powerful
    Zon Quar: nods
    Zon Quar: hypnotic power of mind
    Calvino Rabeni: body awareness can know if it is helping or not helping
    Calvino Rabeni: it could go either way
    Eliza Madrigal: they've measured results of people who 'practice' a sport and those who rehearse, against some

    who do nothing... and there is a gap with the first two, but not a grand one
    Mickorod Renard: I wonder if running through the woods as a wolf is another way of releasing the tension?
    Calvino Rabeni: yes Mick
    Gaya Ethaniel: Similar principles apply to treatments of phantom limb syndrome.
    Eliza Madrigal: rehearse mentally I mean
    Agatha Macbeth will ask a wolf
    Mickorod Renard: I meant in dreams of course
    Calvino Rabeni: yes that releases the phantom limb
    Calvino Rabeni: using a mirror
    Eliza Madrigal: Have you done that Mick?
    Calvino Rabeni: No, try it in RL Mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: howllllllllllllllllll
    Calvino Rabeni: ****Howlllzzzzzzzz****
    Gaya Ethaniel: @.@
    arabella Ella: just as screaming can release tension too
    Agatha Macbeth: Ozzie would be proud...
    Agatha Macbeth: Wolf lag
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Agatha Macbeth: Twice yet
    Eliza Madrigal: those are wolves from the next dimension
    Zon Quar: tension is not to be released but to be used as an energy for creative purposes
    Agatha Macbeth: Up the Wolves
    Calvino Rabeni: Agree with Zon
    Eliza Madrigal: doesn't that entail release?
    Calvino Rabeni: it is not somethning to get rid of, but to channel it]
    Zon Quar: yup
    arabella Ella: always?
    Zon Quar: always
    Calvino Rabeni: another word for release, is "express"
    Calvino Rabeni: always
    Eliza Madrigal thinks always sounds like 'belief'
    Calvino Rabeni: Express can be done in many ways - since it creates something while happening
    Zon Quar: of course there r exceptional situations
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,like free running
    arabella Ella: do you mean we should hang on to tension until we can find creative ways of channeling it?
    arabella Ella: no ranting
    Zon Quar: where u cant handle energy
    arabella Ella: no screaming
    arabella Ella: no getting things off one's chest?
    Mickorod Renard: like hairs?
    Zon Quar: so better release it not to become destrucitve
    Agatha Macbeth: Wonders if Lon Chaney is around
    Eliza Madrigal thinks there is a time and purpose for nearly everything... la la la
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Some beliefs have a diferent relationship with reality than others, -- but perhaps we shouldn't

    rationalize on that..
    Mickorod Renard: I just shave my chest every morning and it seems to settle me
    Eliza Madrigal: singing is a great distributor
    Eliza Madrigal: way to share
    Agatha Macbeth: Eh Mick?
    arabella Ella nods
    Zon Quar: tension is potential energy..pity just to waste it
    Liza Deischer: heheh Mick
    arabella Ella: mmmm
    Eliza Madrigal: the wolves still let you run with them Mick?
    Calvino Rabeni: Catharsis means - getting things off ones chest - this idea has its limits - not always a good thing
    Liza Deischer: depends Zon
    Mickorod Renard: until night falls
    Gaya Ethaniel: Mick my tummy hurts from laughing!
    Agatha Macbeth: Dances with wolves
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahha
    arabella Ella: the soccer team u mean?
    Liza Deischer: well I need to say it is giving some new dimension to these meetings
    Liza Deischer: howling wolfs
    Agatha Macbeth: Yeah, them too
    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, actually, if you live near a forest - and can run, then it can be great to try it :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Try what?
    arabella Ella: have u tried it Calvino?
    arabella Ella: impossible here ... no forests
    Eliza Madrigal: here we can run with aligators or skunk apes
    Calvino Rabeni: At times I've much enjoyed meditation walks in forest, and also the very fast version, which is a

    trance run
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Liza Deischer: to avoid the wofs you mean :-)
    Agatha Macbeth: Eww
    Mickorod Renard: sounds fun Eliza
    arabella Ella: a trance run? as in shamanism?
    Bleu Oleander: dances with skunk ages?
    Calvino Rabeni: This can give you both flow and release
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Calvino Rabeni: yes somewhat shamanic in nature
    Mickorod Renard: yea,,I am hungry for one now Cal,,shall we meet up later?
    Agatha Macbeth: What a wolf?
    Eliza Madrigal: Bleu, only when he shaves his chest
    Liza Deischer: getting focussed on not bumping into a ree
    Calvino Rabeni: Meaning, "you" are not controlling
    Bleu Oleander: :)
    Liza Deischer: *tree
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the forest / trail is running you, instead
    Mickorod Renard: we can track some deer,,then savage them
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh deer
    Calvino Rabeni: And it's possible to trust your unconscious to handle things, like the not bumping into trees
    arabella Ella: bambi?
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, like in a dream
    Agatha Macbeth: Who killed bambi?
    Eliza Madrigal: whatever is needed appears
    arabella Ella: the guy with the shaved chest
    Liza Deischer: Mick just did
    Agatha Macbeth: Whoa
    Mickorod Renard: but seriously,,I used to set up runs in france with a mate and his bro,,so we cud run like

    Mickorod Renard: was that tenpole tudor?
    Agatha Macbeth: How does a maniac run?
    Eliza Madrigal: hair slows running down
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol this is too much
    Agatha Macbeth: Mick doesn't have that prob @:)
    Calvino Rabeni: Maniac - or shaman - or some other kind of being doing the running
    Liza Deischer: that is why I keep it short
    Calvino Rabeni: like the wolf image
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Calvino Rabeni: This can realy expand your sense of self and reality
    Mickorod Renard: I just chase a few sheep around now,,in my old age
    Agatha Macbeth: werewolves of London
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: and take a lot of the pressure off the job the "small self" usually has
    Calvino Rabeni: Well I guess you could do it with the pet, in the living room too
    Agatha Macbeth: Pardon?
    Zon Quar: WHAT ?
    arabella Ella giggles ... imagines 'the pet'
    Mickorod Renard: not if its an elephant
    Agatha Macbeth doesn't want to imagine the pet
    Bleu Oleander: what happens here stays here?
    Calvino Rabeni: Step into your animal nature, leave the little ego person on vacation for a while :)
    Zon Quar: sets his ego aside and is filled with wild animal passion
    Zon Quar: of a fish
    Gaya Ethaniel: Time to go. Thanks everyone :)
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah, another of Mick's silly sessions
    Mickorod Renard: when my son was very young we wud get his mates together and dance around a small fire like

    primeaval man,,it was very invigorating for everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Gaya :) Nice to see you
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Gaya :)
    arabella Ella feels so sorry for 'the pet' ...
    Bleu Oleander: bye Gaya
    Agatha Macbeth: I think we all do
    Mickorod Renard: bye Gaya
    Mickorod Renard: thanks for commin
    Eliza Madrigal was wondering who else dreams 'as' an animal sometimes
    Bleu Oleander: bye everyone
    Agatha Macbeth: Can't say I ever did
    Calvino Rabeni: It's not totally silly, theres a scientific side too - there's a book "Your Inner Fish" for example
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bleu :)
    Agatha Macbeth: C ya Bleu
    Zon Quar: blue
    arabella Ella: bye Bleu
    Mickorod Renard: bye bleu
    Mickorod Renard: gud 2 c u
    arabella Ella: i saw two baby sparrows in a small yard today learning to fly
    Zon Quar: i must read that book
    Mickorod Renard: I am quite passionate about it,,seriously
    arabella Ella: amazing what baby sparrows can do ... their playfulness
    Eliza Madrigal: oooh so sweet ara
    arabella Ella: yes it was very relaxing watching them
    Calvino Rabeni: @mick, I'd go along with that :)
    Mickorod Renard: to feel the energy flowing through ..its great
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, wonderful
    Eliza Madrigal: no need to scream to get rid of tension if one can stop and notice....
    Zon Quar: runners high
    Agatha Macbeth: Go with the flow
    Calvino Rabeni: agree with Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: I think in a way thats why i like motorbikes too
    arabella Ella: dont you feel that on a bike Mick?
    Calvino Rabeni: Same here Mick
    Calvino Rabeni: I feel it on a bike after I get in "the zone"
    Mickorod Renard: sometimes,,not quite the same,,
    Calvino Rabeni: lucky to have mountain roads
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Zon Quar: yawns...time to go....c ya
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye!
    arabella Ella: nite Zon
    Agatha Macbeth: Bye Zon
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zon :)
    Mickorod Renard: I get to a stage where i PALPATATE,,AND HAVE TO BREATH BETTER
    Mickorod Renard: BYE zON
    Mickorod Renard: oops,,sorry for shouting
    Agatha Macbeth rubs her ear
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: shouting, screaming, howling... such a noisy session
    Agatha Macbeth: Truly
    Calvino Rabeni: My sound was turned off
    Agatha Macbeth: Just as well
    Eliza Madrigal: then all that palpatating
    Calvino Rabeni: No, I will have to go actualy do it
    Agatha Macbeth: Eww (again)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah
    Mickorod Renard: its like a call to the wild
    arabella Ella: but Calvino ... when then do i tend to trip or lose balance when i dont focus on walking?
    Calvino Rabeni: palpating is different than palpitating, actually
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah
    Mickorod Renard: its not sexual is it?
    Eliza Madrigal: and pittering & pattering?
    Calvino Rabeni: A common misperception, Ara
    arabella Ella: yes?
    Agatha Macbeth: And a pottering
    Calvino Rabeni: You would trip when your unconcious gets distracted
    arabella Ella: so I dont actually lose balance then ... just think I do?
    Eliza Madrigal: so there is some intention in this then Cal... to give the reigns to unconscious...
    Calvino Rabeni: No, just saying, the unconscious handles the walking, and sometimes the conscious will be so

    distrating, it can interfere with that process
    arabella Ella: ah
    Agatha Macbeth: Oh
    Eliza Madrigal: its not my conscious that is distracting... but other people's...
    arabella Ella: yes in a way it is like a loss of 'flow'
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Calvino Rabeni: It could give mixed up signals - break the rhythm of the unconscious walker
    Mickorod Renard: when one is 'pissed',,one must pressume the unconcious is unconcious then?
    Agatha Macbeth: Ah well, me must luv ya and leave ya folks
    Eliza Madrigal: Gosh love the glasses Ag
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now :)
    Liza Deischer: bye Agatha
    Mickorod Renard: see ya Agsss
    Agatha Macbeth: It's been fun tonite c yas
    Calvino Rabeni: Like driving distracted, versus, driving effectively but being able to think about things
    arabella Ella: yea cool glasses Aga ... nite Agatha
    Eliza Madrigal: we've been dropped :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Wol
    Wol Euler: evening all, sorry I'm late
    Liza Deischer: hey Wol
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
    arabella Ella: yes Calvino seems to be advocating dropping the conscious ego ... interesting type of dropping
    Mickorod Renard: HIyaa Wollll
    Calvino Rabeni: As an experiment of course :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well, dropping in the sense of 'hold in a new way' perhaps?
    Liza Deischer: bye Ara
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: not yet leaving
    Liza Deischer: sorry :-)
    Mickorod Renard: can one practice using alcohol?
    Calvino Rabeni: A good experience or practice, but it could negatively affect job performance in the "normal"

    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    arabella Ella: just became conscious of symmetry since Wol turned up :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: There's conscious use of alcohol probably Mick
    Mickorod Renard: darn
    Eliza Madrigal: Wol is our symmetry bell
    arabella Ella: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght, "darn" no easy way
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    arabella Ella: what i find interesting is that alcohol can instigate amnesia just as a bad fall could too
    arabella Ella: a knock on the head
    Wol Euler grins
    Eliza Madrigal: to excess its like inducing trauma
    Wol Euler: that's why I sat here, ara, preserving symmetry
    arabella Ella: yeaaaaa
    Calvino Rabeni: Alcohol is more psycho / social than most people think
    Wol Euler nods.
    arabella Ella: what do you mean Calvino?
    Calvino Rabeni: But then what they think, depends on their culture
    Eliza Madrigal: but sometimes when I've been reading a lot or even practicing, etc.... I will have a glass of wine to

    sort of hm... interrupt the charge... let things integrate
    arabella Ella: surely drinking a whole bottle of wine has physical effects too?
    Calvino Rabeni: It's been studied by anthropologists, as such, it doesn't get well explained just on a "physical"

    arabella Ella: disinhibiting for example?
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght, it doesn't really do that, according to some studies
    Mickorod Renard: I am always wery of the disinhibiting idea
    Mickorod Renard: wary
    Mickorod Renard: I think its motre that the pissed one cannot addequately hide their intentions
    Mickorod Renard: more..not motre
    arabella Ella: but you dont have to be really pissed to become disinhibited
    Calvino Rabeni: The effects have a lot to do with culture and its expectations
    Mickorod Renard: addequately with one d
    Eliza Madrigal: hm... there seems convincing evidence for people doing things that they wouldn't otherwise do,

    when drunk....
    Calvino Rabeni: So for example, in a culture where people stuff their expressions inside, then maybe alcohol

    appears to be "disinhibiting"
    arabella Ella: try drinking a tray of shots Calvino and try to drive afterwards ... the consequences could be life

    Eliza Madrigal looks through mental photo album...
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Calvino Rabeni: @eliza, yes, the idea is, the "evidence" has a cultural background
    Wol Euler: has anyone heard of a culture in which alcohol works to create inhibitions, rather than subdue them?
    arabella Ella: no
    Eliza Madrigal: australia?
    Mickorod Renard: it does with me actually
    Eliza Madrigal: kidding
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
    Eliza Madrigal: just thinkingof things being opposite... oh nevermind
    Mickorod Renard: I am so terified I wud do something too crazy I become more inhibited
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah
    Wol Euler: interesting
    arabella Ella: if it were not physical and neurophysiological then why is it forbidden to drink and drive?
    Calvino Rabeni: It's hard to fliter out the cultural aspects of the interpretation of alcohol's effect
    Calvino Rabeni: People have different motivations in getting into alcohol
    Eliza Madrigal: there have been stories of meditation masters who can drink as much as they like and have no

    Calvino Rabeni: True
    arabella Ella: nice
    Calvino Rabeni: because it doesn't change their "story"
    Calvino Rabeni: One interpretation that appears more "cross cultural" is that alchohol puts people more "into

    the moment" and less into "planning ahead"
    Calvino Rabeni: But then, once "in the moment" - what happens?
    arabella Ella: well planning ahead could make one easily more cautious about the amount being consumed
    Calvino Rabeni: That is still rather cultural
    Mickorod Renard: that sounds plausable
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe it is to express aggression
    Liza Deischer: in the moment without awareness
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe it is to relax and be sillly
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe it is to be loving
    arabella Ella: but there is social drinking too
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe it is to say something sincere to one's comrades - as in a toasting circle
    arabella Ella: and with social drinking one generally knows when one's limit is reached
    Calvino Rabeni: In that sense, all drinking is "social" drinking
    Calvino Rabeni: whether the body is with others, or "alone"
    arabella Ella: then there is 'bing drinking'
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght, that is really a different activity
    arabella Ella: which appears to be fashionable with young people
    Calvino Rabeni: different nationalities have their drinking traditions
    arabella Ella: also at times a sort of rite of passage to adulthood in some cultures
    Calvino Rabeni: binge drinking is an effect of globalization
    Eliza Madrigal: ?
    arabella Ella: is it? why?
    Wol Euler: ?
    Mickorod Renard: thats proberbly why I havnt grown up yet
    Calvino Rabeni: it comes from perhaps, American, maybe Brit attitudes toward what alcohol is "for"
    Eliza Madrigal: purge drinking usually goes with
    arabella Ella nods
    Calvino Rabeni: There are national / cultural stereotypes or habits about alcohol, how to use it, what it means.
    arabella Ella: well i find there is a huge difference in attitudes between northern european countries and southern

    Calvino Rabeni: BInge drinking probably wouldn't happen in a culture where the children grew up with wine

    arabella Ella: the regulations in the north are much stricter ... and somehow lead to more binge drinking
    Eliza Madrigal: rather agree
    Wol Euler: agreed
    Calvino Rabeni: then it wouldn't have the aspect of "hey now I'm free" that it does in american youth culture
    Wol Euler: in England during hte 80s pubs had to close at 11pm sharp
    arabella Ella: exactly Calvino ... in the med we grow up with it being available and not prohibited
    Eliza Madrigal: the more it is locked up like "oooh, don't touch this" the more dangerous it is
    Wol Euler: what would happen is that 10:45 people would order six pints of beer
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght
    Wol Euler: and drink them in the next 15.1 minutes
    arabella Ella: they still do some places in the UK Wol
    Calvino Rabeni: So alcohol in America is "to get blasted" -
    Calvino Rabeni: TO get drunk
    Calvino Rabeni: with an idea of freedom from constraints
    arabella Ella: but now as far as i know pubs close and close the bar but people have a couple of hours inside to

    finish drinking
    Wol Euler: /m enods
    Calvino Rabeni: and a way to "interfere"with an aspect of ego that is not appreciated
    Wol Euler: and surprise surprise, drunkenness and accidents and violence have gone down.
    Calvino Rabeni: In other places, alcohol might be part of enjoying food
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Calvino Rabeni: or of enjoying company with others
    Mickorod Renard: I thought the us was the place for freedom?
    Eliza Madrigal: well, 'freedom' is a big word
    Calvino Rabeni: or to express things in a group - some cultures mainly drink in group expression settings
    Calvino Rabeni: not so much alone
    arabella Ella: alcohol prohibition is still very strict in the US
    Mickorod Renard: yes?
    arabella Ella: as opposed to gun possession
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the US has a very puritanical / repressive emotional climate
    arabella Ella: or being drafted
    Calvino Rabeni: That's the background
    Calvino Rabeni: So the counterculture movements that get the attention, are reactions against that
    Calvino Rabeni: Lots of sexual and emotional hangups in the US
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, just the US
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: A hyper - individualism as a cultural export, needs to be seen as coming from that background
    Calvino Rabeni: Not just the US of course have those reservations and social controls
    Mickorod Renard: I am sure its the same in UK
    Eliza Madrigal: yes... joking. But there does seem to be a link between sex and the way the US tends to binge

    Wol Euler wonders how much of what the world thinks the US is, is actually describing about 100 city blocks each

    of LA, San Francisco and New York.
    Eliza Madrigal: like giving themselves permission
    arabella Ella: what do you mean Eliza?
    Calvino Rabeni: @wol, kind of true
    Mickorod Renard: I thought the US was very liberal sexually?
    arabella Ella: only on TV and movies Mick ... desperate housewives ... sex and the city ... some guy named clinton ...

    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, I thought France and Belguim were very liberal sexually :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm.... that people 'use' alchohol as a way to say "It wasn't my fault"... like a 'free pass'... not just

    US of course
    Mickorod Renard: Well I think Belgium is outside clarification
    arabella Ella: i think Italy is quite liberal there
    Eliza Madrigal: I think the 'scandal' culture is a prob in us... not sure about elsewhere....
    Wol Euler nods
    Mickorod Renard: you mean Desperate housewives aint real?
    arabella Ella: of course it is real Mick ... just as Dr. Who is and Star Trek too
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I was planning a hunting trip
    Wol Euler: it's real for certain values of "real"
    Mickorod Renard: hold on,,in the UK Dr Who is real
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    arabella Ella: yes Mick that is precisely what I just said
    Eliza Madrigal: I'd better get going. Nice to see you all
    Mickorod Renard: :)
    arabella Ella: bye Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza
    Wol Euler: bee eliza, take care
    Wol Euler: buzz well
    Eliza Madrigal: :::waves:::: thanks for the chat... haha.. beee welll
    Mickorod Renard: byeeeeee
    Liza Deischer: bye Eliza
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,I must get going too
    Liza Deischer: bye Mick
    Wol Euler: 'night mick, take care
    Mickorod Renard: but great session,,thanks
    arabella Ella: oh I think Holland is very liberal too but then also the opposite extreme is visible there ... as Liza

    may agree or disagree?
    arabella Ella: bye Mick
    Mickorod Renard: byeeeeeee
    Calvino Rabeni: Some people see a reverse relationship between sex and violence - where sex is repressed, there

    is more violence, and where it is easily available, then less violence.
    Wol Euler: well, sex is much more fun.
    arabella Ella giggles
    Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV :)
    arabella Ella: i would disagree with that statement Calvino
    arabella Ella: but that would be a long discussion
    arabella Ella: and i must go now ... nite all ... thanks for interesting chat :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It would be a long discussion :)
    Wol Euler: 'night ara
    Wol Euler: take care
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the same with Food.
    Wol Euler: as an alternative to violence?
    Calvino Rabeni: That is, scarcity of nurturing things, food, physical love - results in a harsher overall culture,

    including violence.
    Wol Euler: oh, I see
    Wol Euler: heh
    Calvino Rabeni: There's been some studies to that idea.
    Wol Euler: that sounds pretty sensible, actually
    Calvino Rabeni: Like living in Eden, versus living in a Desert
    Calvino Rabeni: The american aborigines - their cultures were very different, based on climate
    Calvino Rabeni: some lived in coastal areas - lots of food and fish, etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: Not very inclined to war - had lots of traditions of generosity
    Calvino Rabeni: Others had practices we'd consider horrendous / barbaric
    Calvino Rabeni: lots of war, war practices for initiation, traditions etc.
    Calvino Rabeni: Tended to come from the places where life was difficult and survival needs scarce
    Calvino Rabeni: I forget the reference, but someone took this idea global to see if it correlated
    Calvino Rabeni: The current wars in the world can be seen to have environmental stresses behind them
    Calvino Rabeni: due to climate change, mostly, but also overpopulation
    Wol Euler nods.
    Calvino Rabeni: those factors explain things more than stuff like "racism" and "religion"
    Calvino Rabeni: When there are environmental stresses - competition for resources and survival - of course the

    conflicts start to align with ethnic lines, etc.
    Wol Euler: tribes
    Calvino Rabeni: But that does not mean, those differences are the source
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght, when life is tough, you side with your own tribe
    Calvino Rabeni: when it is easy, then there's more sharing with Others
    Wol Euler nods.
    Liza Deischer nods too
    Calvino Rabeni: I guess the dynamic is manipulated for advantage - if you made money off arms, you'd probably

    want to suggest life has insecurity, scarcity, etc. and foster fear
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Liza Deischer: didn't realize for a moment that we are left here with the three of us :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: RIght, it's not a big chat anymore :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I think I could enjoy Lunch right about now:)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Liza Deischer: well, it tells me someting about the state I'm in
    Wol Euler: "concentrated"?
    Liza Deischer: need to meet a friend, so leaving
    Liza Deischer: me? no ....!
    Liza Deischer: not at the moment
    Wol Euler: bye liza, take care
    Calvino Rabeni: Have fun, Liza
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Liza Deischer: cu both
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, W and L.
    Liza Deischer: nite :-)
    Wol Euler: bye calvino, bon appetit
    Calvino Rabeni: thx
    Wol Euler: bye recorder

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