2010.05.19 07:00 - A Dream Circle

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Gaya Ethaniel. The comments are by Gaya Ethaniel.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Adams and Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya and Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya and Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you both?
    Adams Rubble: I am fine thanks, and you?
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, thanks, if a little busier than usual due to end of the year school events and such. You?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm well thanks :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Any topics you'd like to discuss? Or how your practices are going?
    Adams Rubble: I need more practicing with my practice
    Adams Rubble: Hello Lucinda
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Lucinda :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lucinda :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Hello:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have you been slacking Adams?! :P
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Adams Rubble: very busy :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hopefully you will have more time in summer. Are you continuing with 9 sec and APAPB etc?
    Adams Rubble: yes, and you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I only pause for 9 sec if I'm at my computer otherwise, I do other practices.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Mainly in the morning, prostrations, chanting and sitting. I may do further practices depending on the day.
    Adams Rubble: wow, that is quite a bit
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I've been falling into a pattern of morning practice again, which is a bit of a relief... had been thinking I didn't need to structure, but would find the time had slipped away
    Adams Rubble: maybe I AM a slacker :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I also like doing something daily in the morning.

    --BELL--

    Gaya Ethaniel: Not at all Adams. If I have to go out early or unwell, I do trim down as well ... depends on the day :)
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes the moment ;-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Anyway length of time doesn't matter in some sense <- a wonderful excuse but won't work on some strict teachers :P
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: "Its quality of time!'
    Gaya Ethaniel nods nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: teacher replies, "yes takes quantity to find quality"
    Eliza Madrigal: or something like that
    Gaya Ethaniel: I do think there is a reason for repetition.
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Adams Rubble was hoping for "it's the thought that counts" :)
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: What have you noticed about repetition, Gaya, from practicing that way?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well, once comfortable with practice as in established, it becomes quite enjoyable. I miss if I can't practice as much.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Like if one learns all the dance moves, then one can really enjoy the whole experience.
    Gaya Ethaniel: It is also possible then to notice more.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah... then its possible to let go in a sense
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes and we are built in such a way that repetition is vital in learning. Just think about child learning to speak.
    Eliza Madrigal: we learn, but then kind of 'forget it' into the background
    Lucinda Lavender: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: What part gets forgotten Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: Good question... am looking at this lately
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Sharon :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I do not currently have a practice...have wished for one but taking a quiet moment each morning has been the extent of it for a while.
    Eliza Madrigal: like one learns skills, but until they are integrated can't let them flow
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :)
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sharon
    Lucinda Lavender: Hi Sharon
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, and you dream practice Lucinda
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: yes...dreams happen a few times a month, dream circle as well
    Adams Rubble: re-remembering what we forgot is a good reason to keep coming back to PaB sessions
    Eliza Madrigal: indeed
    Adams Rubble: dreams are very helpful
    Eliza Madrigal: Dreams are a kind of memory exercize it seems to me
    Adams Rubble: could you say more Eliza?
    Eliza Madrigal: In dreams we notice that we noticed things but didn't realize it, or sometimes go way back in time... or leap ahead...
    Eliza Madrigal: we use symbols we picked up during the day or we visit people
    Eliza Madrigal: Its like we find/rediscover more of what was already there
    Adams Rubble: I see, thanks
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thise things do seem to get rearranged in dreams though :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, way more fluid... flexible
    Adams Rubble: I have thought of my dreams as more of a process but certainly memory plays a part

    --BELL--

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello druth and Zen :) [90 sec pause currently]
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Druth :)
    Lucinda Lavender: HI Zen
    Zen Arado: Hello Everyone :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Zen
    druth Vlodovic: 1&1/2 min silence every 15, good idea :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Druth
    Eliza Madrigal: There is an exercize where one goes "back" into a memory... and just notices what is there. I've found when I do that it is nearly endless, what I was 'there for' but didn't notice
    druth Vlodovic: hi everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you druth :)
    Lucinda Lavender: interesting...
    Eliza Madrigal: Much like a dream in that regard
    Adams Rubble: Hello Druth and Zen
    Gaya Ethaniel is giving druth a PaB intro in IM :)
    Lucinda Lavender: much information there
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: druth means 'thirst' in N.Ireland slang
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    druth Vlodovic: lol, I'll have to remember that
    Eliza Madrigal: haha... interesting line in your profile druth "the stranger the better"
    Eliza Madrigal: Welcome :) haha
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm curious about your dream practice Lucinda. Would you say a bit about it?
    Lucinda Lavender: It is a cermonial form...sort of from the native american tradition...where several dreams come together(unplanned)...and are listened to and then woven together.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow, sounds fun :)
    Lucinda Lavender: It is in the listening and looking from a non personal viewpoint that one can see how we are all working together to deliver our gifts etc
    Adams Rubble: Could you explain more about the "unplanned" weaving togther
    Adams Rubble: is that something that happens from prctice?
    Lucinda Lavender: The dreams are brought without any discussion beforehand.
    Adams Rubble: in a group?
    Lucinda Lavender: So as happened at my last dream circle there are connections that pop out...and bring one into a place of humbleness
    Lucinda Lavender: yes
    Adams Rubble: ohhh
    Lucinda Lavender: a group of 3 meet here in Seattle
    Adams Rubble: very interesting
    Lucinda Lavender: we have been doing it since 2002
    Eliza Madrigal: Its like pouring them into something like this pool in front of us... releasing attachment
    Eliza Madrigal: and seeing what floats up
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is interesting and would be fun to try sometime
    Gaya Ethaniel nods :)
    Lucinda Lavender: yes with a "virtual stone...we do it in 2L as well.
    Lucinda Lavender: there is a deepening in how the dream is seen
    Gaya Ethaniel wonders if we can try next week.
    Lucinda Lavender: and there is no need to repeat the ideas either
    Eliza Madrigal is game :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I would love to try it sometime.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Shall we try at this session next week then?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive been meaning to ask you Lucinda, what if someone did not remember a dream?
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure!
    Lucinda Lavender: sure
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: Many times I do not bring a dream
    Adams Rubble: should this be something to be tried in a logged session?
    Lucinda Lavender: good question.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Bring a PG dream Adams :P
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lucinda Lavender: I think it would be something to think about
    SophiaSharon Larnia: would that be a dream from the day, or a dream that occured during the week? :)
    Lucinda Lavender: You know, I am thinking that it might be helpful to have people here on time or early as well
    Gaya Ethaniel: We can use 90 sec pauses to reflect in-between too :)
    Lucinda Lavender: :) great
    Gaya Ethaniel: You can give a light handed guidance on how to proceed on the day Lucinda.
    Lucinda Lavender: It is usually a closed session and this might be a little challenging but I think it is a great idea to try
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's easy to learn by trying if that's ok.
    Lucinda Lavender: yes:)
    Eliza Madrigal: It may be a little stretch to say, but it is a reflection of a different way of living life really... to let go of one's experience/insight as being only one's own... the dream practice seems one way to look at that
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.

    --BELL--

    Lucinda Lavender: I think we might find that typing dreams is a lot of words...and the way a dream unfolds in its words is important...hmmmbring a short dream...?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Lucinda Lavender: even just the dream image...
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, what I was just asking.. re text v voice
    Gaya Ethaniel: I think the process and what it brings out would be something that could be the most interesting part anyhow rather than the conents of dreams themselves.
    Eliza Madrigal: And this could be a dream from any time over say.. last month?
    Eliza Madrigal nods @ Gaya
    Zen Arado: need a notebook to write them down immediately on wakening
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
    Zen Arado: they flee so swiftly
    Gaya Ethaniel nods.
    Eliza Madrigal: sometimes one can notice a part of a dream that seems stronger than the rest, and just note that
    Gaya Ethaniel: That's true too.
    Zen Arado: you must have long dreams Eliza :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's just a fun experiment I'm suggesting. Bring whatever you feel comfortable and see what happens :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Eliza Madrigal is dreaming now
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Im surprised we havent done it before ^^
    Zen Arado: just a dream synopsis?
    Eliza Madrigal: That's true, Sharon!
    Zen Arado: with highlights?
    Eliza Madrigal: Doesn't it seem like we should have?
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Eliza Madrigal: or could have anyway
    Gaya Ethaniel: New guardians can be a catalyst :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Shame Lucinda crashed though.
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, she sometimes has internet issues
    Eliza Madrigal: Her thought about arriving a few minutes early is a good one, because I know that she comes to these sessions before work
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok let's meet 10 min to7 am SLT next week if you can.
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds great
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Zen Arado: and hsare our dreams
    Zen Arado: share*
    Zen Arado: sounds romantic:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel sent an IM to Lucinda about time.
    Eliza Madrigal: Since she crashed, maybe it would be a good idea if I described the structure of the circle?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well, let's just try out next week?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or you are part of the circle too Eliza?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Lucinda's I mean so you know what happens.
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, well I've gotten to sit in once and have been pestering her
    Eliza Madrigal: alot
    Eliza Madrigal: a lot
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah great :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, sounds great. Please say more.
    Eliza Madrigal: The only thing I thought might be helpful to know is that as she mentioned, they pass a stone around to show whose turn it is to speak...
    Eliza Madrigal: and they are very polite
    Eliza Madrigal: One person shares a dream, then the next, then the next... if someone doesn't wish to, they pass the stone along and are quiet...
    Eliza Madrigal: Then the second round, they begin to give thoughts...
    Eliza Madrigal: first on the first dream.... around the cirlce... anything which comes to mind
    Eliza Madrigal: not in a personal way... more like "this picture brought to mind this"
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    Eliza Madrigal: then they move onto the next dream, and then around the cirlce again
    Eliza Madrigal: what is notable, is how gracious they are with one another... or maybe rather with the 'space in the middle' that the dreams are shared into
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm looking forward to it already.
    Eliza Madrigal: its lovely and so similar to PaB :)
    Zen Arado: do you discuss the dreams?
    Zen Arado: find meaning in them?
    Eliza Madrigal: not like 'interpreting' for each other, no
    Eliza Madrigal: just noticing
    Gaya Ethaniel: I actually like that it's not analytic.
    Eliza Madrigal nods

     --BELL--

    Eliza Madrigal: then what emerges or appears is what appears
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sounds great. Thanks everyone :) Enjoy your day.
    Eliza Madrigal: or not/ like Gaya said.. its the process
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Gaya :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you Gaya
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: bye Gaya
    Adams Rubble: bye Gaya
    Zen Arado: what emerges to yourself?
    Eliza Madrigal: Anyway, if I've made mistakes describing, Lucinda wil correct :))
    Adams Rubble: I must depart as well. Bye everyone :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Adams :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Adams :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi astro
    Zen Arado: bye Adams
    druth Vlodovic: cya adams
    astroboy Bigboots: hi
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it sounds dynamic, and could evolve on its own through PaB, it may not be the same
    Eliza Madrigal: Let me give you a note astro, abut our group here
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, and yes I agree Sharon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I do have to go :) bye everyone ^^
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sharon :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: waves
    Zen Arado: think I would want other's interpretation of my dreams
    druth Vlodovic: bye sharon
    Eliza Madrigal: We record our sessions astro. Do you mind being included in the log?
    Zen Arado: bye Sharon
    astroboy Bigboots: no, it's ok
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, it is nice that it isn't interpretation
    Eliza Madrigal: Great :) thanks astro
    Eliza Madrigal: it is more a 'practice' in that way...
    Eliza Madrigal: a practice of letting go
    Zen Arado: no I would like interpretation Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah
    Zen Arado: of my dreams
    Eliza Madrigal: Well, there is that too... just not the same thing as Lucinda's circle
    Zen Arado: what they mean
    Zen Arado: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: the thing is, what if they don't 'mean' anything just for you...
    druth Vlodovic: sometimes it's nice just to experience something, without meaning
    Zen Arado: I can't quite see the point of sharing then?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen Arado: maybe it's my analytical mind :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Zen, there is a parallel here to the lojong you've been going over... all dharmas are dreams
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: yes...so I want to see through the dream
    Eliza Madrigal: rafts to be disguarded... what if we learn to let go moment to moment... even of the shinest things... 'insight', etc
    Zen Arado: )s)
    Zen Arado: ok
    Zen Arado: you're probably right
    Zen Arado: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: let go of them as personal, I mean... ego centered
    Eliza Madrigal: I donno... am playing :)))
    Zen Arado: as 'my' dreams?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen Arado: a communal dream?
    Eliza Madrigal: even 'our' life
    druth Vlodovic: I find it spooky that people can write vry personal poetry and then let strangers see it
    Zen Arado: hmmm...some of mine are very personal :)
    Zen Arado: yes druth
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, there is something in us compelled to share.... to release
    Zen Arado: I just got a book of poems Michael O'Keefe sent me
    Eliza Madrigal is not suggesting people bring 'fantasies'... hehe... but dreams :)
    Zen Arado: he tells about his father beating him up
    Eliza Madrigal: Sounds like a 'healing' thing to do, Zen
    Zen Arado: well maybe.....
    Eliza Madrigal: What did you feel reading it?
    Zen Arado: maybe it's my culture...
    Zen Arado: 'kep yourself to yourself' they say
    Zen Arado: felt slightly embarassed
    Eliza Madrigal: exposure without gravity seems part of healing... exposing to the light
    Zen Arado: nicely put...
    Eliza Madrigal: takes away a bit of the power, the charge, when one lets go of something....
    Zen Arado: if you can ditch the gravity
    Eliza Madrigal: but I understand the feeling of embarrassment... its like an entrustment
    Eliza Madrigal: and yet public
    Zen Arado: think American culture makes this easier
    Zen Arado: less reticence about personal exposure
    Eliza Madrigal: I've thought about that... not sure... American culture over-capitalizes on people's pain at time..
    Eliza Madrigal: not recognizing the sacredness of the sharing and exposure, in a way... not feeling embarrassed enough?
    druth Vlodovic: not valuing other people's secrets
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen Arado: just more openness
    Zen Arado: starts with Holywood stars maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: yes or turning the openness into just hm... donno, something like enterainment
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Zen Arado: they can't avoid having their personal lives exposed
    druth Vlodovic: it's also a malke/female dichotomy, males tend to defend themselves more, whereas women will often share to the point of dangerous exposure
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, though I'd guess most people feel like that at times in their own ways
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, interesting druth
    Zen Arado: ah yes ...

     --BELL--

    Zen Arado: just had a dream that I spent the afternoon with 6 beautiful women:)
    druth Vlodovic: :) I still like that
    Eliza Madrigal: :))
    Zen Arado: dream on Zen :)
    Eliza Madrigal: dakinis?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    druth Vlodovic: openess is a bit of a belief system in the deomocratic west
    Zen Arado: 'all I ever do is dree ee e eam, dream dream dream
    Zen Arado: like freedom'
    druth Vlodovic: you need to monitor the doings of politicians so maintain freedom
    Eliza Madrigal: agree to some extent druth... but hm... real openness isn't just throwing everything out there...
    Zen Arado: 'freedom' is a big concept
    Eliza Madrigal: it takes discernment, which seems to take societies a long time to develop
    Eliza Madrigal: we swing from one extreme to another
    Eliza Madrigal: I still don't care who Clinton was sleeping with :)
    druth Vlodovic: we like easy answers,
    Zen Arado: yes
    druth Vlodovic: trying to judge Clinton on his politics was too much like work :)
    Eliza Madrigal: heheh
    Zen Arado: MOnica and him far more interesting :)
    Eliza Madrigal: well, maybe we learned that politicians are less dangerous if they have personal lives
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Zen Arado: feet of clay
    Eliza Madrigal: if they are distracted
    Eliza Madrigal: (kidding, but you know what I mean)
    druth Vlodovic: "people respond to incentives"
    Zen Arado: :)
    druth Vlodovic: even reporters
    Zen Arado: would like more of those :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes
    Zen Arado: I better go and dream some more :)
    druth Vlodovic: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Zen, thanks
    Zen Arado: thanks for nice discussion:)
    Zen Arado: bye
    druth Vlodovic: I need to keep a stick beside the computer for when I get on a rampage and the "15 minute bell" comes up
    druth Vlodovic: something to bite on
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah a stick?
    Eliza Madrigal: Have a difficult time holding back?
    astroboy Bigboots: ^
    druth Vlodovic: it's nice to have a bit of enforced pacing :)
    Eliza Madrigal: that bell is a good cooler :)
    Eliza Madrigal: might actually help people feel out when/what to share too... with regard to exposures/over-exposures
    Eliza Madrigal: haven't really thought of that before this conversation
    astroboy Bigboots: def. so
    druth Vlodovic: you mean waiting for the bell so that they aren't interrupted
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Eliza Madrigal: Did you see the note that people meet her four times a day? 1,7,1,7...
    druth Vlodovic: I've tried to teach my kids a hard won lesson, "you don't always need to finish a thought or even a sentance."
    druth Vlodovic: think we can keep you here till then?
    Eliza Madrigal: hah, no I'm actually going in a few minutes, but I like what you've taught your kids....
    Eliza Madrigal: like "No, you don't have to finish every book"
    Eliza Madrigal: Its okay to find value in one part and move on
    druth Vlodovic: where is the group joiner?
    Eliza Madrigal: We don't have a traditional group joiner... people who find themselves coming a lot and joining in with the conversations and explorations may want to become guardians somewhere along the way
    Eliza Madrigal: so the group list is for that
    druth Vlodovic: ok
    Eliza Madrigal: we have the wiki.... if you'd like to read the sessions though... wide range of folks and topics
    Eliza Madrigal: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    druth Vlodovic: 'kay, thanks

     --BELL--

    Eliza Madrigal: :) must get going but nice to meet you both
    astroboy Bigboots: good bye
    druth Vlodovic: cya eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now ::waves::::
    druth Vlodovic: :)
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    Originally written on 00:07, 20 May 2010
    I love the unfolding of this discussion. Crashing is a problem these days for me. Not sure why.
    Eliza did a great job of describing dream circle. Lovely.
    Sharing a dream with it's particular language is an important part of listening to it's wisdom. We are bringing it so that it can be heard and understood by others rather than to be explained by us from our personal view.We do try to refrain from psychological commentary.Not looking so much at ones personal connection to the dream... We become super listeners. What we do very carefully is not talk across the circle...just allowing the perception of each to unfold an energy. Some times toward the end we acknowledge the changes we have noticed. As well as noting any similarities that have not yet been pointed out.

    I have never tried typing for dream circle so this is where it feels a little like play for me. I think we can just say the name of the person to our right to advance the stone. There is no reason to with hold humor either! It can be a moment of high sensitivity too as listening to deep levels the dreams sometimes get us very quiet and then a sound can be a bit shocking. If you know about the symbolism of a thing in the dream you can share that with the knowledge that how each person hears the dream is valued. If Whales mean x in your experience you can say that,If you heard a different word...then say what you heard. Hearing differently might be especially interesting through a typed circle. It is all a part of the spiraling of how dreams speak to us. Know that if you pass the stone and speak not a word there is still participation...
    This can be done with a lightness... particularly in this typed form.
    Hope this helps. I will be there at 6:50 Wednesday.
    I think that if someone flies in after we start we can pass to Eliza or Gaya to explain that were are following a spiraling form for this exploration. Perhaps before the day we do this it will evolve a bit more and then we can share any further thoughts before we start.
    Looking forward to it.
    Lucinda Lavender
    Posted 02:21, 20 May 2010
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