2010.05.22 13:00 - Nurturing, impermanence

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Darren Islar. The comments are by Darren Islar.
    Attenders: Yaku, Zen, Steven and Darren

    A nice and slow evening, with the real topic at the beginning, but also touching interesting topics as we go along.

    On the same morning of this session (1 am), Yaku and I discussed nurturing yourself. Somehow the morning-topic got stuck in my head and made me go back to my body, trying to listen more closely to what it needs, and in following those feelings, giving some place to stay for my mind, putting it to rest. I don't know how to describe that in another way. I was curious about Yaku's experiences:

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi darren
    Darren Islar: hi Yaku


    Darren Islar: did you do some nurturing today for yourself Yaku?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i am thinking about gossiping
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i just talked negativly about someone and i still somethow think it´s right but i also think somebody else need his own impression, it was the first time i did that in sl and the person is not pab related!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i feel a bit sorry and a bit right at the same time, nurturing
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, i talked to a guy in chile, to a woman in portugal and a pupil in spain
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t read
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t do something explicitly educational
    Darren Islar: would you have liked to?
    Darren Islar: or do you think you should?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, but i didn´t make something in that direction habitual
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that is the issue
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have to make it habitual to think and read about perception habits and how to seek information better
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that counts for contemplative as well as scientific :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how to elaborate on my thoughts better without me explicit need of ppl to moderate me
    Darren Islar: 'have to make it' doesn't sound inviting to me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: how to be better in autodidactic activities
    Yakuzza Lethecus: dropping is part of it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: as tool for dissociations
    Darren Islar: and trying to look close at what you really need
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i need nothing
    Darren Islar: I think the lattter is nurturing to me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s fine when i do what i am talking about it´s even fine when i think i do what i am talking about
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it doesn´t matter if somebody else thinks differently it only matters that i recognize everyone as he has his perceptions
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and invite those to talk about it
    Darren Islar: nurturing to me is taking care of my wellbeing
    Darren Islar: from moment to moment
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Darren Islar: I have been on the beach just before I came here, in sl
    Darren Islar: and before that I did my meditations
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still i only allow myself to be happy when i did all sweeping and alike
    Darren Islar: before that I have been cooking
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i won´t when i think, ,,hell what have you done"
    Darren Islar: and before that I have been sleeping

    Zen Arado: Hi Darren,Yaku
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zen
    Darren Islar: Hi Zen
    Darren Islar: to me that is taking care of myself
    Darren Islar: instead of wondering what I should or shouldn't do
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sry i have to log off :(
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care you both
    Darren Islar: bue Yaku
    Zen Arado: bye Yaku

    Yaku leaves suddenly, me and Zen getting to talk a bit about Jimmy Hendrix, Zen having a picture of him on his shirt

    Darren Islar: do I see Jimmy Hendrix?
    Zen Arado: maybe
    Zen Arado: have to look myself
    Darren Islar: :-)


    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: I have 2 Hendrix shirts
    Zen Arado: other is white I think
    Darren Islar: I think I had those too
    Zen Arado: from a pack of 72 I got free
    Darren Islar: right :-)
    Zen Arado: lots of rock singers
    Darren Islar: yes, I remember

    about the session itself and its GoC

    Zen Arado: not many online tonight
    Zen Arado: weather is too good maybe
    Darren Islar: no, not much going on on saturdays anymore
    Darren Islar: or maybe get in very late
    Darren Islar: probably :-)
    Zen Arado: who is guardian for this slot?
    Darren Islar: I am
    Zen Arado: ah ok
    Darren Islar: since two weeks
    Zen Arado: permanently?
    Darren Islar: well I've said that I can do it for a while
    Darren Islar: but being saturday night.........
    Darren Islar: I don't know, let's see
    Darren Islar: I wanted to contribute my bit as most are doing in some way
    Zen Arado: yes...I feel guilty otherwise
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Zen Arado: used to have a friend who was guardian for this slot
    Darren Islar: ah
    Zen Arado: she used to invite all her friends
    Darren Islar: non PaB members you mean
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: or people who came sometimes
    Darren Islar: it is a way to approach it
    Zen Arado: I wouldn't do that
    Zen Arado: if they come they come.....

    going to the beach and other neat places on sl

    Zen Arado: you went to the beach today you said?
    Darren Islar: yes in sl, found this great place
    Zen Arado: oh in sl
    Darren Islar: the beach for me is about a 100 miles away
    Zen Arado: I see
    Darren Islar: but this beach really looks nice and is soothing me
    Darren Islar: but of course I prefer the real ocean :-)
    Zen Arado: have you been to Perfect Paradise place?
    Darren Islar: no
    Darren Islar: that is nice too, I assume
    Zen Arado: yes...it's beautiful
    Darren Islar: then I need to check it out (Zen giving me a lm)
    Darren Islar: thanks
    Darren Islar: I try to find nice places for me and my date
    Darren Islar: it is a real good reason for exploring :-)
    Zen Arado: sure
    Zen Arado: lots of nice people there too
    Zen Arado: but lots of nice places in SL
    Darren Islar: yes, there really are
    Darren Islar: like to do a bit of exploring again
    Darren Islar: after a while you hardly leave your sim anymore
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: I seem to go to meetings a lot
    Zen Arado: too many meetings
    Darren Islar: PaB you mean
    Zen Arado: yes and others
    Darren Islar: or also others?
    Darren Islar: ah

    Darren Islar: hi Steven
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Zen Arado: Hi Steve


    Darren Islar: well I also think it comes in waves
    Darren Islar: sometimes you do more meetings, other times other things
    Zen Arado: yes ...life seems to work like that sometimes
    Zen Arado: a feast or a famine
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Darren Islar: do you know the Da Vinci gardens?
    Zen Arado: no don't think so
    stevenaia Michinaga: in SL?
    Darren Islar: there is really a lot to look at and to explore
    Darren Islar: yes in sl
    Darren Islar: an adventure
    Darren Islar: under water gardens
    Darren Islar: I give you the underwater link
    Darren Islar: really beautiful
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes pls
    Zen Arado: sure
    Zen Arado: thanks
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
    Darren Islar: you can take a programmed ride on two a.......have no idea what they are called in english
    Darren Islar: sea horses (of course)
    Zen Arado: I have lots of landmarks but can't remember what they were like
    Darren Islar: :-)

    the impermanence of the virtual world and the attachment to it

    stevenaia Michinaga: many of mine are old and no longer lead anywhere
    Zen Arado: yes that happens too
    Zen Arado: no way to cancel old LMs
    stevenaia Michinaga: the transient nature of this virtual world
    Zen Arado: yes
    Darren Islar: no I was wondering about that, there isn't si there
    Darren Islar: yes one day you have a place to stay and the next moment you need to leave :-(
    Zen Arado: you don't know until you try to use LM
    Zen Arado: remember how annoyed I was when they closed the sim I was renting a house on
    Zen Arado: annoyed*
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Zen Arado: my first lesson SL impermanence
    Zen Arado: :)
    Darren Islar: yes :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Sim ownership does offer interesting power over your tenants
    stevenaia Michinaga: I know people that lost much when things were "closed"
    Zen Arado: yes
    Darren Islar: lost in what way?
    Zen Arado: best not to pay too far in advance
    Darren Islar: ah
    stevenaia Michinaga: unsaved structures disappeared
    stevenaia Michinaga: and complete social situations disrupted
    Darren Islar: yes, I always try to save things
    Darren Islar: but sometimes you just forget
    Darren Islar: and social structures, yes
    Zen Arado: good lessons on impermanence
    Darren Islar: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Darren Islar: better to learn here then in rl
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: just think if Pema decided to give this place up.....
    stevenaia Michinaga: the lessons are the same
    Darren Islar: but you can feel how easily you can get attached to certain things
    Zen Arado: yes and people
    Zen Arado: would lose a lot of friends I think
    Zen Arado: if this place closed
    Darren Islar: friends or so called friends
    Zen Arado: yes well......
    Darren Islar: well I guess it is also the social structure Steven mentioned
    stevenaia Michinaga: the question of 'ownership came up the other night....as in who owns all this "information" on the wiki
    Zen Arado: hmmmm.....difficult one
    Darren Islar: the meeting where you find people feeling close to the group, without being really friends with some of them


    the seemingly impermanence to vital information about ourselves on the net

    Darren Islar: I don;t wanna know
    Darren Islar: I guess I wouldn't be here anymore if I knew
    Zen Arado: not very important to me either
    stevenaia Michinaga: if you know who "owned" it
    Zen Arado: wiki ownership I mean
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    Darren Islar: If I knew who had access to all the information
    stevenaia Michinaga: with the upcomming change it will reside with Kira, but it is accessible by anyone on the web
    Zen Arado: don't think many outsider would be interested?
    Darren Islar: and can find out things about who I really am, without me giving a permission
    stevenaia Michinaga: not but I agree that is matters little
    Zen Arado: not unless you reval it online
    Darren Islar: Well I have a feeling that if somebody really want to know something about me........
    Zen Arado: did you ever try putting your avi name on Google?
    Darren Islar: you have those websites that show you which sides you and your friends are on
    Zen Arado: yes they could find it other ways too
    Zen Arado: even Google has lots of info about us
    Darren Islar: right
    stevenaia Michinaga: not sure what there is to dis-associate yourself from here
    Darren Islar: sorry, meaning Steve?
    Zen Arado: except you revealed something about yourself without thinking about it
    stevenaia Michinaga: that if the information in the wiki was attached to the real you, if it would matter except to the increadibly bored
    Zen Arado: and regretted it later
    Darren Islar: :-) Steven
    Zen Arado: :)
    Zen Arado: I gave someone my Flickr page address for instance
    stevenaia Michinaga: there is the ability to edit the wiki, as I sometimes do with my bad spelling
    Zen Arado: and Wol told me I shouldn't have
    Zen Arado: because that lead to my real identity
    Darren Islar: ah
    Darren Islar: what is Flickr?
    Darren Islar: something like Facebook?
    Zen Arado: a photo site
    stevenaia Michinaga: you can post pictures there for others to see
    Zen Arado: yes and mine is public
    Darren Islar: like Picassa albums
    Zen Arado: yes
    Darren Islar: but if it comes to the wiki, maybe it would be a good thing to find out
    Darren Islar: just in order to know

    How to deal with sl-friendships in rl-life?

    Zen Arado: I find most don't reveal too much about themselves in SL
    Darren Islar: true, mostly being careful
    Zen Arado: don't see how you can be a close friend if you don't know much about someone
    Darren Islar: well, I guess that you overstep those boundaries when you want too
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am amazed what the essence of friendship consists of
    Darren Islar: getiing really close to someone and starting to trust that person
    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t know what it is, but you know when it hits you
    Darren Islar: yes :-)
    Zen Arado: but it has to grow
    stevenaia Michinaga: like understand.... you know it when it hits you
    Darren Islar: and sometimes the relationship si really an sl relationship
    Darren Islar: yes, it has to grow
    Zen Arado: some don't want that though
    Darren Islar: and that is a part that doesn't grow faster then in rl
    Zen Arado: want to keep things strictly in SL
    Darren Islar: everything going faster in sl except that
    Darren Islar: that means you won't go to rl meetings Zen?
    Zen Arado: can you keep a strict boundary like that?
    Zen Arado: I go to a lot of RL meetings
    stevenaia Michinaga: some where masks here, others choose not to
    Darren Islar: sometimes because you know it only works there
    Darren Islar: in other cases, no


    Darren Islar: I mean RL-PaB meetings
    Zen Arado: I would love to go to RL pab retreats Darren
    stevenaia Michinaga: The first RL PAB meeting I wnet to there were some who wanted to keep their identities anonymous, photos were not published bcause of their wished, others did not care
    Zen Arado: I find boundaries difficult
    stevenaia Michinaga: respect is an important part of this group
    Darren Islar: yes, but whatever happens you go over a boundarie, not keeping it strictly to sl
    Darren Islar: yes, it is
    Zen Arado: yes that's what I mean
    Zen Arado: I want to meet the people in RL
    Zen Arado: seems a natural progression to me
    Darren Islar: ah, I thought you didn't want to, keeping strict boundaries, sorry misunderstood
    Darren Islar: yes to me too
    Zen Arado: no i don't like boundaries
    stevenaia Michinaga: it's nice that the retrearts are over many parts of the world
    Zen Arado: but I am too disabled for them
    Darren Islar: so am I
    Darren Islar: in a different way though
    Zen Arado: I often wonder if I should reveal that to people
    Darren Islar: do PaB-members know?
    Zen Arado: I only mention it if it comes up in conversation
    Darren Islar: ah, okay, always wanted to ask that because of the meditations
    Darren Islar: Liza not always knowing what to say :-)
    Zen Arado: but if you are getting to know someone well there comes a point where you have to tell them
    Darren Islar: true
    Zen Arado: age is also a problem
    Darren Islar: in what way?
    Zen Arado: I can have young girl friends in SL
    Darren Islar: ah yes :-)
    Zen Arado: age doesn't seem such a problem as in RL
    stevenaia Michinaga: and they could appeat like a man too
    stevenaia Michinaga: appear
    Zen Arado: :)
    Darren Islar: 'live is like a box of choclates, you never know what you gonna get" (Tom Hanks)
    Darren Islar: especially in sl :-)
    Zen Arado: I usually tell them I am quite old
    Zen Arado: better to be honest I guess
    Darren Islar: :-)
    Zen Arado: some women like older men anyway
    Zen Arado: less drama:)
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    Darren Islar: I don't make a secret about it
    Darren Islar: but not yet being at your age Zen
    stevenaia Michinaga: old is relative too
    Zen Arado: yes
    Darren Islar: well it is one of the great parts about sl, I don't meat a professor in daily life or so much various different kind of people
    Zen Arado: yes - so many interesting people
    Darren Islar: there is less authority or social structures, layers and that kind of things
    Zen Arado: or class systems
    Darren Islar: right
    Zen Arado: and you find so much similarity in people of other countries
    Darren Islar: maybe someone famous is sitting next to me without telling us :-)
    Darren Islar: yes
    Zen Arado: not me sorry :)
    Darren Islar: darn!!
    stevenaia Michinaga: giggles

    Buddhas walking around without telling us :-)

    Darren Islar: well you never know when there is a buddha around
    Darren Islar: but that also goes for rl :-)
    Zen Arado: but we are all Buddhas
    Darren Islar: I disagree
    Zen Arado: when we can get through the crap that covers our Buddha nature up :)
    Darren Islar: I guess you can say we all have the ability to become one, Buddha nature
    Darren Islar: to me I think there also needs to be developed something
    Zen Arado: ah yes


    Zen Arado: really I don't know but I will do my Buddhist practice and see what happens
    Darren Islar: quite right :-)
    Darren Islar: I don't know either, I can have thoughts about it, but thats it
    Zen Arado: yes ...don't think we can 'pre - know' it
    Darren Islar: right
    Zen Arado: if we could it wouldn't be 'it'
    Darren Islar: :-)

    saying goodbye

    Zen Arado: anyway think I better go
    Darren Islar: you captured my thought :-)
    Darren Islar: need to go too
    Zen Arado: will take a walk around perfect paradise then go to bed
    stevenaia Michinaga: see you both again
    Zen Arado: right
    Darren Islar: thanks for the talk
    Zen Arado: bye
    Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
    Darren Islar: cu

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