2010.05.25 01:00 - Jumble

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.


    Wester Kiranov: hi cal

    Calvino Rabeni: Hello Wester


    Calvino Rabeni: How are you, Wester? What's up lately?

    Wester Kiranov: I'm OK. Not much happening really. Well, I made popovers with my daughter (who's 3), that kind of things happen. How are you?.

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm well, it is a slow spring this year, and haven't gotten out into the wilderness yet this year.

    Calvino Rabeni: Instead, more time web-surfing and reading.

    Wester Kiranov: out into the wilderness? what do you mean by that?

    Wester Kiranov: And what kind of things are you reading?

    Wester Kiranov: I do have a photo of my daughter cooking http://www.flickr.com/photos/wester/4636642846/

    Calvino Rabeni: The town I'm in is surrounded by mountains, forests and trails, I like to explore. This year the high elevations aren't clear of snow yet. Last year by now it was all gone.

    Wester Kiranov: (RL calling) brb


    Wester Kiranov: Sorry, that took a while.

    Calvino Rabeni: I got a big smile from the picture of your daughter and the popovers. Thanks for sharing that :)

    Wester Kiranov: yw ;-) Lovely, living near the mountains. I like (light) trekking, but I haven't really been able to do much of that for the last few years

    Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense, if you have young children.

    Wester Kiranov: It's not going to be that long until we can take them on mountain walks. Really short ones, probably this summer.

    Calvino Rabeni: A new world for them...

    Liza Deischer: hey ;-)

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Liza :)

    Wester Kiranov: hi liza

    Liza Deischer: (can't stay long, just popping in to say hello)

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm a housguest of a retired scholar - the hazard here is too much to read - mostly American magazines :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Oh ,pop in any time? :)

    Calvino Rabeni: (no ? intended in that last statement)

    Liza Deischer: :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: I was surfing your profile Wester, and it led to a long interview with Stephen Batchelor (sceptical buddhist group)

    Calvino Rabeni: It's on the same program that Piet Hut was interviewed - "Brainwaves"

    Wester Kiranov: I like Stephen Batchelor a lot, but I don't do much with the skepical buddhists

    Calvino Rabeni: They combine science and philosophy - e.g. neuroscience and buddhism

    Liza Deischer: I think I read something from him, is that possible?

    Wester Kiranov: of course it's possible ;)

    Calvino Rabeni: A recent book is out - about the historical Buddha

    Calvino Rabeni: Kind of - buddhism without religion, I guess

    Wester Kiranov: his best known book is buddhism without beliefs


    Calvino Rabeni: The interview video is at http://blip.tv/file/3347011

    Liza Deischer: some persons here a bell and starts to doze of immediatly :-)))))

    Liza Deischer: thanks Cal

    Calvino Rabeni: lol Liza :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Are you sure you're not related to ...

    Wester Kiranov: aren't bells supposed to wake you up ;-P but I know what you mean

    Calvino Rabeni: .. nevermind :)

    Liza Deischer: I seem to have read something about him, long ago, that was really Buddhism, but translated to western understandeble proportions

    Liza Deischer: hmm, some bells don't :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: Well if it does, just get a bigger bell :)

    Liza Deischer: maybe I'm talking about somebody else

    Wester Kiranov: it could have been him, still

    Calvino Rabeni: A "Secular, Western, Atheistic Buddhist" is a tag-line

    Liza Deischer: you know bells can do weird stuff like in the experiment with Pavlov :-)))

    Calvino Rabeni: The dogs learned it

    Wester Kiranov: so what do meditation bells condition you to do?

    Calvino Rabeni: But when their masters chant Om, something different happens

    Calvino Rabeni: They condition you to relax and pay attention

    Calvino Rabeni: And come back to center

    Wester Kiranov: and then fall asleep attentively

    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe, but you get credit for that too :)

    Liza Deischer: :-))

    Liza Deischer: need to go again

    Wester Kiranov: and then you're suppose to let go of all that lovely credit

    Liza Deischer: but nice refreshing statements for the morning

    Calvino Rabeni: Bye, glad you dropped in Liza.

    Wester Kiranov: nice you were here liza

    Liza Deischer: cu

    Calvino Rabeni: But about the bell, it seems there's something in the sound itself, not just a conditioned association?

    Wester Kiranov: The sound is lovely, even when you hear it for the first time, I admit. But I don't know if ther is anything intrinsic there that wakes you up, or just the association

    Calvino Rabeni: I think there is - that it has an inherent quality that impacts consciousness in a particular way.

    Wester Kiranov: There might be - I just don't know for sure

    Calvino Rabeni: I've been losing interest in reading and gaining interest in audio presentations

    Wester Kiranov: I could use some less interest in reading - I'd have lots more time ;-P

    Calvino Rabeni: The way it's related - is that the thing I'm paying attention to isn't the "information" but the kind of quality and style of the people doing the presentation

    Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, also audio can be used, while doing other things,

    Calvino Rabeni: So the time can do "double duty"

    Calvino Rabeni: ... or is multitasking generally not a good idea ? :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Listening while driving - lots of people do that

    Wester Kiranov: I'm sure multitasking is a double illusion ;)

    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, maybe they cancel out :)


    Wester Kiranov: *trying to imagine listening cancelling out driving*

    Wester Kiranov: (vice versa is not that hard)

    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking - after an earlier session - about the house environment people create around themselves

    Calvino Rabeni: Accumulating "stuff" - possessions

    Calvino Rabeni: When people start to think about what kind of quality they have created with all that

    Calvino Rabeni: That it might be changed by doing something intentional

    Calvino Rabeni: Like what?

    Calvino Rabeni: LIghtening the load, simplifying

    Calvino Rabeni: Or maybe, looking at the quality of those objects

    Calvino Rabeni: As in, quality before quantity

    Calvino Rabeni: Some people are pretty talented with the design and choices

    Wester Kiranov: if there's too much quantity it becomes impossible to even see the quality

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, true

    Calvino Rabeni: Lessening the distraction and jumble seems the prerequisite to having the quality have its effect

    Wester Kiranov: but then you have to lessen the jumble inside as well :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: They seem pretty related to me

    Calvino Rabeni: Because the objects all have involvments and attachments

    Wester Kiranov: I think they start out related, but they can become quite independent. Some people can be spacious in big rumbles, other people are distracted even without outer distractions

    Calvino Rabeni: What would that be a result of, do you suppose?

    Wester Kiranov: some of it is probably innate, and a lot of it is certainly practice


    Wester Kiranov: Like getting undistracted and unjumbled for 9 or 90 seconds ;-)

    Calvino Rabeni: Practice might turn into a habit, perhaps? Or rather, cultivation of a state of how the mind works?

    Wester Kiranov: I think so

    Calvino Rabeni: Awareness seems like a value-free thing, at least, the basic forms of it

    Calvino Rabeni: LIke it doesn't take sides, have preferences

    Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm

    Wester Kiranov: I think that's true as well

    Wester Kiranov: But I have to go soon. it was good to talk to you.

    Wester Kiranov: namaste

    Calvino Rabeni: :) Yes, Wester - good to meet you here - it's been a while

    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_

    Calvino Rabeni: Have a good day :)

    Wester Kiranov: We'll meet again :-) Bye

    Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)

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