2010.05.27 13:00 - accumulation of possessions never made anyone happy

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.


    Bertram Jacobus: hui lia ! "your session" ? :-)
    Lia Rikugun: hello hello
    Lia Rikugun: yes "my" session :)
    Bertram Jacobus: great ...
    Lia Rikugun: how are you bertram?
    Lia Rikugun: we will meet in july :)
    Bertram Jacobus: ty. quite fine - and how about you ? :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: yess :-)
    Lia Rikugun: tired, i just ran very fast around the block ;)
    Bertram Jacobus: ui ! why did you do that ? ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: with my boyfriend and m brother to get the body energy down
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow ...
    Bertram Jacobus: hm ...
    Bertram Jacobus: hey eliza ! :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bert :) Hi Lia too... Welcome back :)
    Lia Rikugun: hello Eliza!
    Lia Rikugun: thank you

    I tell a little about my experiences during my vacation in Romania

    Bertram Jacobus: you were out of germany lia recently ?
    Lia Rikugun: yes i was in romania
    Bertram Jacobus: what did you do there ?
    Lia Rikugun: where my father orginially comes from
    Bertram Jacobus: whaow - so interesting !
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice :)
    Lia Rikugun: we travelled throught the country
    Bertram Jacobus: holidays ? how long ?
    Lia Rikugun: 9 days or so
    Lia Rikugun: it was really nice and somehow a travel in the past
    Bertram Jacobus: are there / did you see big forests ?
    Lia Rikugun: yes amazin g beautiful nature
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. so are my impressions of that country from tv reports and such ...
    Lia Rikugun: it is really beautiful and all the culotural background
    Lia Rikugun: which i was not so aware of before
    Lia Rikugun: the german settlers from the 12th century
    Bertram Jacobus: ah. what in special did you learn about that ?
    Bertram Jacobus: ah
    Lia Rikugun: and there are still living some there
    Lia Rikugun: siebenbuerger saxen
    Bertram Jacobus: i see ...
    Lia Rikugun: sachsen
    Bertram Jacobus: hy liza
    Lia Rikugun: ups
    Lia Rikugun: hello Liza
    Liza Deischer: hey Bert, Lia, Eliza

    the differences in living standard

    Lia Rikugun: what was interesting to me and what made me think
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Liza :)
    Lia Rikugun: was to see people living in small cabins, people garding the sheeps, without fluent water
    Bertram Jacobus: yes ...
    Lia Rikugun: and how random it is that i was raised in germany and have this standrad of living
    Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
    Liza Deischer: where have you been Lia ?
    Lia Rikugun: in romania
    Liza Deischer: ah
    Bertram Jacobus: "randomly" ... we don´t know ey ? ... ;-)
    Wol Euler: evening all
    Bertram Jacobus: hey wol ! :-)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Liza Deischer: hey wol :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
    Lia Rikugun: i was just wondering, that anything i "have"
    Lia Rikugun: is not really anything I have, because my life would have been different if I was born there
    Lia Rikugun: I am not sure if this makes sense
    Eliza Madrigal: yes of course it does, very much so
    Liza Deischer: yes, it does
    Eliza Madrigal: of all the things we think 'we' accomplish or do, much has to do with where were happened to be born, etc
    Lia Rikugun: yes exactly
    Lia Rikugun: so i am thankful and try to work the best out of it
    Eliza Madrigal: :) being appreciative seems to help
    Lia Rikugun: and not having my head above others
    Lia Rikugun: in the end we are all the same
    Liza Deischer just found out that you can turn down the volume of the water
    Lia Rikugun: or if we take all the background away
    Eliza Madrigal: and we aren't guaranteed many things... 'free' country, etc
    Lia Rikugun: ok just some thoughts about my travel
    Eliza Madrigal: Thank you!

    Is it random that we are born into our family and into these circumstances? or is there a pattern?

    Bertram Jacobus: but - "randomly" means just that we don´t know, right ? ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: yes i dont know
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure... that we can't see a pattern I guess
    Eliza Madrigal: Surely I don't think we can call it an 'accomplishment' where we are born, etc
    Lia Rikugun: i think there is a sense but still i can imagine being a different person
    Lia Rikugun: i dont know
    Bertram Jacobus: the karma theory would it make possible to call it like that eliza i guess, no ? ;-)
    Wol Euler: in the sense that you had earned it? perhaps
    Eliza Madrigal: Even if we think in terms of past lives, one might be 'more realized' and choose birth in so-called 'lesser' circumstances
    Liza Deischer: I dont no if that is interesting to know
    Eliza Madrigal: Yup, I don't know :)
    Bertram Jacobus ommmmms
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: (and takes a coffee - brb) :-D
    Lia Rikugun: and found myself thinking: I should be thankful for the life I am living
    Wol Euler nods.
    Lia Rikugun: and i realized
    Lia Rikugun: this gives it a measurement
    Lia Rikugun: my life is better than his
    Lia Rikugun: but is that so? why do i think this way?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lia Rikugun: do I need this measurement?
    Liza Deischer: would have been my question :-)
    Lia Rikugun: isnt it possible to take it as it is
    Bertram Jacobus: sure it is

    "42" : Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life the Universe and Everything

    Wol Euler: "42"
    Lia Rikugun: and it seems thats not that easy
    Liza Deischer: 42?
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Wol Euler: the answer to the great big question of Life, the Universe and Everything.
    Bertram Jacobus: "but" / and there are differences in the amounts of suffering and being lucky ...
    Liza Deischer: ??
    Lia Rikugun: yes bertram
    Wol Euler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answer_to_Life,_the_Universe,_and_Everything#Answer_to_the_Ultimate_Question_of_Life_the_Universe_and_Everything_.2842.29
    Liza Deischer: thanks Wol
    Lia Rikugun: which movie was this again wol?
    Wol Euler girns
    Lia Rikugun: or a book?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: a book actually, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
    Lia Rikugun: ah yes right
    Eliza Madrigal: Its Thursday
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
    Bertram Jacobus: hello sharon :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sharon :))
    Lia Rikugun: and the computer calculates for ages
    Wol Euler: "42" is a common answer to unanswerable questions, like "why can'T people just live together in peace and tolerance?"
    Lia Rikugun: and then gives the answer : 42 :D
    Lia Rikugun: hello sophia
    Wol Euler: right, lia, so: what was the question really?
    Wol Euler: that's the story anyway
    Liza Deischer: hi Sharon
    Wol Euler: hello sharon
    Bertram Jacobus: hey ara ! :-)
    Lia Rikugun: hello arabella
    arabella Ella: Hiya!
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Eliza Madrigal: So if everyone's answer is 42 but each has a particular question... they need a lifetime or three hundred to get there
    Wol Euler: the second shift is arriving
    Eliza Madrigal giggle
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara :)
    Liza Deischer: hi Ara

    the eurovision song contest

    arabella Ella: sorry I am late am watching Eurovision ... anyone else doing so too?
    Wol Euler: football?
    Wol Euler grins
    Liza Deischer: why?
    Bertram Jacobus: no - is it the song contest ?
    Eliza Madrigal: Gol!
    Lia Rikugun: oh i didnt know it is going on right now :)
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    arabella Ella: Eurovision Song Contest ... he he ... so funny
    arabella Ella: second semi final tonight
    Liza Deischer: fingers crossed for Holland
    Wol Euler chants: Lena! Lena! Lena!
    arabella Ella: yes ... we are out we were in first semi final on tuesday and did not qualify
    Liza Deischer: with the most stupid song you can imagine :-)
    arabella Ella: the whole island is in mourning as a result
    Wol Euler: :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Eliza Madrigal can imagine some pretty stupid songs
    arabella Ella: lovely dress for the swedish singer
    Liza Deischer: :-)
    Wol Euler: think of a hybrid cross between maudlin and cringe-making
    arabella Ella: and i liked the irish girl's voice
    SophiaSharon Larnia: didnt meant to stop by for such a short time, gotta go :))
    Wol Euler: with a fast beat
    Eliza Madrigal: wow, beautiful dress Sharon
    Liza Deischer: by Sharon
    Wol Euler: oops, bye sharon
    arabella Ella: lots of yoodling style songs this year
    arabella Ella: (including the Dutch one)
    Liza Deischer: I'm afraid so :-))
    Eliza Madrigal: Dutch yodeling hm... what about skatting?
    arabella Ella: he he
    Liza Deischer: (skatting?)
    arabella Ella: Eliza the Eurovision Song Contest is something special ... everyone takes it seriously but in reality it is a sort of farce which is entertaining ... like opium for the masses!
    arabella Ella: the only famous song to emerge was an Abba one many moons ago
    Eliza Madrigal: dobadbadeedadidiadobeboobebopshabaybi
    Lia Rikugun: wow
    arabella Ella: sha-la-la-la-li
    Wol Euler: was that "waterloo"?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
    Eliza Madrigal: Oooh Love Abba
    Liza Deischer: (hate it)
    arabella Ella: dont remember which song it was but I love Abba too ... only in those days they were considered very kitch
    Eliza Madrigal: Baby I'm still free, take a chance on me...
    Wol Euler: what, only in those days? :)))
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, always kitch, that's why its great... like Xanadu
    arabella Ella: what ... the norwegian host is wearing glittery shorts
    arabella Ella: and knee socks ..black ... what taste ... giggles
    Eliza Madrigal: Its on my list of "Pop Culture Education" for my kids
    arabella Ella: he he
    Wol Euler: must be related to their curling team
    Liza Deischer: ah bah Abba?
    Eliza Madrigal: ooooo ranbow knee socks! Love those!
    Eliza Madrigal: with shorts
    Eliza Madrigal: hahahaha
    arabella Ella: he he
    Eliza Madrigal wonders if I can watch this song competition on the internet
    arabella Ella: yes you possibly could
    arabella Ella: we have a web site which streams it
    arabella Ella: di-ve.com
    Liza Deischer: look for eurovision songfestival
    arabella Ella: and once this is over
    arabella Ella: the fever will move to south africa and the World Cup
    Wol Euler: heheheheh
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah... see something... listening to sweedish singer: http://entertainment.gather.com/view...81474978262791
    Liza Deischer: we already have streets that are completely orange
    arabella Ella: ah the Dutch could prove to be a surprise in S Africa as they often did in the past
    Liza Deischer: not to the Dutch :-)))
    arabella Ella: they have won the world cup a couple of times
    Liza Deischer: we never came over the lost of the finals in 1974
    arabella Ella: i thought you had won in 74
    Liza Deischer: no, the Germans cdid
    Eliza Madrigal: imo the first singer is normal sounding... not particularly distinct? Oh, but !! Willie Nelson cut his hair!
    Liza Deischer: that I as someone who dislikes football knows something like this
    Wol Euler: this I must see :)
    Liza Deischer: it is really a big collective Dutch trauma :_)
    arabella Ella: i am so impressed with your knowledge of football Liza!
    Eliza Madrigal: http://celebs.gather.com/viewImage.a...81474978261218
    Liza Deischer: impressed ?? :-))
    Eliza Madrigal: That's just odd (Willie)
    arabella Ella: @ Eliza many of the singers are 'normal sounding' but they try to put on a show so often it could be a combination of stage presence and song
    arabella Ella: who is Willie?
    arabella Ella: Free Willie?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and I'm just seeing that one clip
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah Ara :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Rather iconic singer with long braids
    Eliza Madrigal: until now :)
    Liza Deischer: it is awful to watch at
    Eliza Madrigal: Sorry to pop out early but I have something to do before Wok in a bit
    Lia Rikugun: byebye eliza
    Lia Rikugun: nice to see you
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
    Liza Deischer: bye elizA
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Lia, welcome back. :) Bye everyone, Thanks :))
    Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza ...
    arabella Ella: bye Eliza
    Wol Euler: god I hate sites that make me install their own home-brew single-use plugins.
    arabella Ella: did you try di-ve.com Wol?
    Wol Euler: yeah, it too has a homebrew plugin
    arabella Ella: oh no i hate em too
    Bertram Jacobus: speciatlists ... don´t understand a single word of that
    Bertram Jacobus: homebrew plugin - what is that ?
    Wol Euler: they want me to install special software to view their site. No.
    arabella Ella: what is that Bert?
    arabella Ella: oh they want Wol to download some software before being able to view streaming on the website
    Bertram Jacobus: hm. here it just started - but not sure whether that is live
    Wol Euler: it's bad enough having to use flash, but that is at least an international standard
    arabella Ella: you are probably seeing what i am seeing Bert, England at the moment, one of the big five
    Bertram Jacobus: okay
    Wol Euler: anyway, enough geek venom for one night
    Bertram Jacobus: i saw an interview with some aussies , then stopped
    arabella Ella: it is actually nearly finished, semi final generally finishes at around 11pm
    Lia Rikugun: http://www.sendungen.sf.tv/eurovisio...-2.-Halbfinale
    Lia Rikugun: but in german
    arabella Ella: Germany Lena now but she is one of big 5 with automatic inclusion in final
    Lia Rikugun: (swiss german... i almost dont understand ;))
    Wol Euler: :)
    Liza Deischer: going, just tried to get away from the songfestival :-)))
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Wol Euler: bye liza, take care
    Lia Rikugun: bye Liza
    Liza Deischer: bye all
    arabella Ella: bye Liza
    Lia Rikugun: yes come sit next to me ;)
    arabella Ella: lost my rezzing while moving
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: ty
    Wol Euler: god, even on the internet, TV is utterly absorbing.
    Wol Euler switches it off
    arabella Ella: even on my i phone Wol ... he he
    Wol Euler: so, Lia, did we get to the end of your topic?
    Wol Euler: there was a rather abrupt shift just then
    arabella Ella: my sincere apologies ...
    arabella Ella: did not realise

    differences in lives and analysing the own thinking

    Lia Rikugun: hm no end, i want to keep those questions in my mind
    Wol Euler: oh no, sorry, not meant as an accusation
    Lia Rikugun: without being able to answer to the,
    Lia Rikugun: i was describing some experiences I made on my travel through romania arabella
    Lia Rikugun: that we met people living in small cabins and how this made me thinking
    arabella Ella: ah ,.. very interesting experience I am sure Lia ... please say more
    Lia Rikugun: well my thinking started with something like: I should be grantful for the life I can live
    Lia Rikugun: and I ended up analysing my own thoughts and how I think that way
    arabella Ella: is that because you found Romania to be a 'sad' country Lia?
    Lia Rikugun: why would I put on ordering on different lives
    Lia Rikugun: no it was wonderful
    Lia Rikugun: but I met a guy, who was keeping sheeps, he invited us to have lunch
    arabella Ella: i mean sad in the sense of poor like seeing children begging in Bucharest
    Lia Rikugun: no it was more to see the shepard and see that he is living his life
    Lia Rikugun: i dont know if he was asking for more
    Lia Rikugun: i cannot really describe
    arabella Ella nods
    Lia Rikugun: but in the end now I am thinking about my own thinking
    Lia Rikugun: why do i think my life is better than his
    Lia Rikugun: where does this definition of good come from?
    arabella Ella: mmmmmm
    Wol Euler: I'd guess that "comfort" is a large part of that
    Wol Euler: certainly thinking about my own reactions
    Lia Rikugun: i dont know
    arabella Ella: i dont think it is comfort Wol ... and I dont think lives can be compared like that as better or worse or superior or whatever
    Wol Euler: we have clean water, electricity whenever we want it, more or less honest government, safe streets ...
    arabella Ella: but we learn a lot when we see and appreciate others doing things differently
    Wol Euler nods to ara. These are judgements of society, perhaps, but no reason to judge individual people
    arabella Ella: well what comes to mine is that many of uus have lost the simplicity of life
    Wol Euler: wb eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Wol :) Mission accomplished
    Wol Euler cheers
    Lia Rikugun: welcomeback eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Bertram Jacobus: wb eliza :-)
    arabella Ella: wb Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks everyone :)
    Lia Rikugun: I am sorry, I will go to bed now,pretty sleepy
    Lia Rikugun: so take care
    Wol Euler: bye lia, schlaf gut
    Lia Rikugun: and good night
    Eliza Madrigal: Night Lia :)
    arabella Ella: nicht Lia

    "accumulation of possessions never made anyone happy"

    Eliza Madrigal: Ara, you were talking about simplicity when I arrived?
    Eliza Madrigal: I notice that you think about that a bit... its inspiring :)
    Wol Euler nods.
    arabella Ella: yes Eliza i am always impressed when i encounter people living a simple way of life during my travels
    arabella Ella: and it makes me reflect ... as Lia seems to have done too ... on how our lives are full of unnecessary stuff
    arabella Ella: accumulation of possessions never made anyone happy
    Eliza Madrigal: everything we have is something we spend energy and time on
    Eliza Madrigal: maybe good to ask what is worth that, every step, I guess... what do we deeply find satisfaction in...
    Eliza Madrigal: meals, friends
    arabella Ella: aren't we sometimes like spoilt kids too ... I want that (whatever) ... once I get it i put it aside and move on to wanting the next desirable object ... etc etc
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Wol Euler: ((each of us could make us symmetrical by moving one single place left or right. How unusual))
    Eliza Madrigal: even spiritual practicioners can be like that
    arabella Ella: i think we should rather distinguish between 'needs' and 'desires'
    Wol Euler nods to ara.
    arabella Ella: we need very little ... we tend to desire too much :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: which is one of hte reasons we try for mindfulness and non-attachment, I think
    arabella Ella: mind you there are useful contexts for desire too ... as when creating a vision for an organgisation for example
    Eliza Madrigal: this (seating I've moved to) is weird but makes sense
    Eliza Madrigal: as a pattern
    Eliza Madrigal: hah
    Bertram Jacobus: in the end, may be, we need ... nothing (!) ...
    Eliza Madrigal: ! Bert
    arabella Ella nods to Bert
    Eliza Madrigal: Agreed, Ara... desire can be a kind of visionary tool...
    arabella Ella: warmth, shelter and some sense of security ... that no one will come along while we are asleep and cause harm to us or our families
    Eliza Madrigal: like, I don't 'need' this computer or to be in SL which is a rather lavish place... but I desire and therefore enjoy the company of mindful others?
    arabella Ella: interesting way of putting it Eliza ... but don't forget SL has lots of benefits too
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Bertram Jacobus: i wouldn´t say "i desire and therefore i enjoy" ... i would say : company can be enjoyed also without desire ...
    arabella Ella: as Bert said we really need very little ... but we are reared to think we need more ... and that is a difficult mind set to get out of ... plus we have families, friends etc
    Eliza Madrigal: Even with 'study' and great discussion, etc., the 'truth' is that it isn't *need*... ah, yes I agree with that too Bert...
    Bertram Jacobus: sry - i didn´t say we really need very little - i said may be in the end we even need nothing (sry for being so radical)
    Eliza Madrigal: I've taken a lot of comfort in rather than 'not' having desires... trying to dig to the deeper desires and not say 'no' to the others but to hm... put them in a diff context
    Bertram Jacobus: ;-)
    arabella Ella: yes Bert, but can you really say we need nothing, not even a roof over our heads in winter or clothes to keep us warm when it is cold?
    Eliza Madrigal: Bert, starting from the end
    Bertram Jacobus: yes. elizas words may explain what i mean
    Bertram Jacobus: seeing the end
    arabella Ella: yes
    Bertram Jacobus: total freedom
    Bertram Jacobus: being able to live as well as die
    Eliza Madrigal: in WoK we were talking about having a 'view' a bit... so a view of everything as mm, yes free...
    Eliza Madrigal: I don't use that word often
    Bertram Jacobus: it has an unbounded range
    Eliza Madrigal: like whatever one needs is there when needed, rather than storing up
    Bertram Jacobus: so it belongs to the so to call absolute
    Eliza Madrigal: But then on a practical, warm house level as Ara was mentioning, there is a 'time' to have certain things I guess...
    Bertram Jacobus: time to have, yes. and time to be ...
    Eliza Madrigal: but one can't enjoy them without the freedom? hehe... oh, many angles :)
    Bertram Jacobus: enjoying has many levels
    Eliza Madrigal nods nods
    Bertram Jacobus: the highest again - so to call "absolute" - as i think
    Bertram Jacobus: perfect etc.
    Eliza Madrigal: complete, nods...
    Bertram Jacobus: yess :-))
    Eliza Madrigal: So then in that place though, one still takes out the trash, washes the car...
    Eliza Madrigal: has a car
    Bertram Jacobus: agree
    Bertram Jacobus: lols
    Eliza Madrigal: or a bike :)
    Eliza Madrigal giggles
    arabella Ella: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: today i heared a very nice story - may i shortly tell ?
    Wol Euler: please do
    Eliza Madrigal: oh yes
    Bertram Jacobus: a spiritual seeker once met an old man with a bag on his back and asked him :
    Bertram Jacobus: what is enlightenment ?
    Bertram Jacobus: the old man put the bag down to the ground
    arabella Ella: i must rush off now Bert ... will try to listen if it is short story
    Bertram Jacobus: the seeker understood
    Bertram Jacobus: then he asked :
    Bertram Jacobus: but what happens, when enlightenment is reached ?
    Bertram Jacobus: the old man took the bag again on his back and left
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Bertram Jacobus: and the seeker understood again
    Eliza Madrigal: Wonderful story, thanks :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: thanks to the guy who told me :-)
    arabella Ella: how lovely thanks Bert
    arabella Ella: must go now
    arabella Ella: g nite all
    Eliza Madrigal: 'before enlightenment chop wood, carry water; after enlightenment chop wood carry water"
    Bertram Jacobus: bye ara -
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ara :))
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Bertram Jacobus: so nice to see you ... :-)
    Wol Euler: bye ara, take care
    Bertram Jacobus: whosh she was fgast
    Eliza Madrigal: she's like the wind...
    Eliza Madrigal: (back to the earlier theme of terrible songs)
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Bertram Jacobus: hehe. yes. and eliza : i heared also this idea in other words as you told them for example now, but like the picture with the bag very much also ... (!) :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: lol
    Eliza Madrigal: definitely... but its funny that the story can take a lifetime (or another theme many) to unpack :)
    Bertram Jacobus: yess
    Eliza Madrigal: and also no time at all
    Bertram Jacobus: and a very nice perspective : to call that "funny" (!) :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Bertram Jacobus: :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah, WoK starts in a minute... Nice to sit with you all for a bit :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
    Wol Euler: bye again eliza, take care
    Bertram Jacobus: bfn eliza ! :-)
    Wol Euler: wok the line :)
    Eliza Madrigal waves.. hehe
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