2010.06.04 01:00 - Language is taken for granted

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    Wol Euler was guardian for this session. Comments will be added later.


    Wol Euler: hello calvino

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Wol

    Wol Euler: I was going to ask how you were, because for me it's a new day since we last met, but realized that for you it's just "later the same day"

    Wol Euler: of course, one might ask the question anyway...


    Wol Euler: good morning, gaya

    Gaya Ethaniel: Good morning :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes; True; OK

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Gaya

    Wol Euler smiles for the camera

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler: hello cosmicflower

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Cosmicflower :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Cosmic :))

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello ;)

    Gaya Ethaniel wonders Wol's appearance changes in SL and RL ... :)

    Wol Euler grins

    Wol Euler: perhaps they are related?

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler: I am wearing fancy shoes in RL too :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Is it possible, wol, to have a script that causes avatar A (e.g. Wol) to see exactly the view that avatar B (e.g. Calvino) sees?

    Wol Euler: mmmmmmmm, I'm going with "no"

    Wol Euler: because B's camera is not tied to his body

    Wol Euler: you could work out what B's body is facing towards, but not necessarily where his cam is looking

    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni can just imagine Wol's RL shoes

    Wol Euler: heheheh

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler: I'll post them on facebook perhaps

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;D

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Howabout in the Log :) ?

    Wol Euler: mmmmmm, I'm going with "no" :)

    Wol Euler: crossing the worlds, y'see

    Calvino Rabeni: That can cause a short circuit, then?

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yaku :)

    Calvino Rabeni: "Don't cross the beams"

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Good Morning Yaku

    Wol Euler: oh yes, all kinds of oddness might leak out, or in

    Wol Euler: hello yaku

    Calvino Rabeni: My concern too - maybe even a strange loop

    Wol Euler: heavens forfend!

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler: what shall we talk about, this fine moment?

    Calvino Rabeni: I was thinking, PaB topics that start with F, G, or U?

    Calvino Rabeni: Any nominations? I'm a little stuck

    Gaya Ethaniel thinks.

    Wol Euler: for your glossary?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes

    Wol Euler: F is for Free, as in "are we ever truly"

    Calvino Rabeni: OR - As we wish to be... :) good one

    Gaya Ethaniel listens now for G and U ... :)

    Wol Euler: we've debated so many ideas here...

    Wol Euler: God?

    Wol Euler: Goodness?

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Wol Euler: Gratitude!

    Wol Euler: much better

    Calvino Rabeni: Ooooo Kayyy - I like that one

    Gaya Ethaniel: And generosity :)

    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes nice too

    Wol Euler: U is for ... Understanding?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello Dylan

    Gaya Ethaniel: And union :)

    Dylan Caedmon: hello

    Wol Euler: hello dylan

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Dylan :)

    Calvino Rabeni: I thought of that - is it Peace, Love and Understanding type understanding? Or insight? Grokking....

    Wol Euler: G is for Grok! that has to be in there

    Calvino Rabeni: Universe -...

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: hehe

    Wol Euler: Universe*s*

    Wol Euler: dylan, have a seat, join us

    Wol Euler: I'll give you a notecard to tell you something about hte group

    Calvino Rabeni: Good idea, the plural

    Dylan Caedmon: its kind of you toinvite me, but I am afk a lot

    Wol Euler: fair enough :)


    Wol Euler: that ding at the end is so cheerful

    Wol Euler: I'd thought of understanding in the sense of "tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni is illiterate in whatever language that is :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: Translate please :)

    Wol Euler: "to understand is to forgive"

    Wol Euler: understanding -> acceptance (or at least tolerance)

    Gaya Ethaniel ponders.

    Calvino Rabeni: Thanks :)

    Wol Euler: but there is clearly a lot of searching for factual knowledge that happens here too

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Are You Wol from France?

    Wol Euler: no, I'm canadian. we learned english at home and french in school

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, isn't there also used french in language, is it country with two languages?

    Wol Euler: yes, in theory.

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but in practice..

    Wol Euler: the country has two official languages, and you can do government business and go to court in either language anywhere in Canada

    Wol Euler: in practice, almost all the Francophones are in Quebec

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, okey ;)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: we have also two languages, swedish and finnish

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but there are area of swidish languaged people, mostly spoken finnish

    Wol Euler: are both "official" languages?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and in school "had to" study swedish

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: these days they are planning replace swedish to some other language

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: more use in the world

    Wol Euler nods.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Chinese would be a good choice :P

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Darren :)

    Wol Euler: the US cheats its children by not encouraging them to learn other languages IMHO

    Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning darren

    Wol Euler: hello darren

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;) heh

    Darren Islar: morning

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hi Darren

    Gaya Ethaniel: Actually a choice of second language taught at schools in Korea often reflect history, politics and economics.

    Gaya Ethaniel: English is a fixed subject of course. European languages were common but these days, Chinese or Japanese are much more popular.

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, I considered maybe, Chinese as the next one to learn

    Wol Euler: English is compulsory in German schools too, you cannot get into university (for any subject) without it

    Darren Islar: same in Holland

    Yakuzza Lethecus: at least from my experience most ppl in the netherlands are at least able to speak english, which doesn't apply for germany as an example

    Yakuzza Lethecus: but even worse in france and spain

    Wol Euler: the dutch are almost annoyingly multilingual :) Most speak four languages or more

    Darren Islar: most 'young' people does yes

    Yakuzza Lethecus: most of the ppl i talked to from poland and alike were able to speak english as an interesting impression, but maybe i wouldn't have talk to them if they didn't :D

    Darren Islar: tha'ts not true Wol, but get your drift :-)

    Wol Euler: perhaps I meet a specific subset of them, then :)

    Darren Islar: probably

    Darren Islar: butit is not quite untrue alos

    Darren Islar: sorry for my typos, just got up :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: darren: when you listen to afrikaans do you understand them ?

    Wol Euler: E is for Extrapolation

    Wol Euler: meeting one Dutchman and thinking that he represents a culture

    Darren Islar: I can read it, not understand it

    Darren Islar: but it almost reads like Dutch

    Darren Islar: a bit of a weird Dutch though

    Gaya Ethaniel: To speak a language is to immerse in a culture I think.


    Wol Euler nods emphatically

    Darren Islar: but there accent is quite different, so if they start talking it, i'm clueless

    Darren Islar: but most people in South Africa speak English anyway

    Gaya Ethaniel: Each word has a cultural reference point. To think of a word, one brings up a whole world with it. Much like 'self' in a specific world view.

    Darren Islar: English has quite a different feeling to me then Dutch

    Gaya Ethaniel: They co-exist :)

    Wol Euler: I believe that there's a movement to have Spanish declared an official language of the US?

    Darren Islar: nice way to put it Gaya

    Gaya Ethaniel: That makes sense :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Darren :)

    Calvino Rabeni: I had not heard that movement

    Gaya Ethaniel: So I have a question ... when you speak English, do you feel your sense of self is different to when speaking in Dutch Darren?

    Wol Euler: well, perhaps it's just a nice idea

    Calvino Rabeni: but... one thing I notice lately, is more products in supermarkets, that are labeled ONLY in spanish

    Darren Islar: well, it brings up another feeling

    Darren Islar: english is more smooth

    Wol Euler: (let's open that question to anyone who speaks two languages regularly)

    Wol Euler: "smooth" is an interesting word

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Darren Islar: English might even be more close to me then Dutch

    Wol Euler: wow

    Darren Islar: as a feeling that is

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i often wonder how thinking in another language is shifting when you use one language only for hobbies and personal interests and the other for work and real life

    Gaya Ethaniel: I also feel quite comfortable in English.

    Darren Islar: yes, it is a 'comfortable' language

    Calvino Rabeni: I don't hear English as smooth; and as it being my native language, it is hard to hear it as having a "quality". So I often thought it as boring....

    Darren Islar: :)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is one language I have taken to be beautifull since little girl, its frenc

    Calvino Rabeni: .. but then one day I started to hear its sound qualities, as if newly

    Wol Euler: "what the hell is water?"

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ..h

    Calvino Rabeni: If I told you, you wouldn't believe me :)

    Darren Islar: well I think when your mothertongue is Spanisch, English doesn't sounds smooth

    Gaya Ethaniel: That makes sense :)

    Darren Islar: I don't like French

    Wol Euler: I loved learning French, I think htat was one of the things that made me a word nerd

    Gaya Ethaniel: English has smoother intonation, rising and falling compared to many Asian languages.

    Wol Euler: realizing that the map was not the territory :) that D-O-G designates a canine but is not thing itself

    Gaya Ethaniel: ?

    Darren Islar: :)

    Wol Euler: a monoglot might think (I did) that there is only one correct way to label a thing-in-the-world

    Darren Islar: but that would be the opposit of a word nerd :)

    Wol Euler: that the only correct word for small domesticated meat-eating animal that barks and wags its tail is "dog"

    Wol Euler: learning that there were other words, equally valid, opened a box that I didn't know I was in

    Darren Islar: (nice description :-))

    Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)

    Darren Islar: (small domesticated meateatin animal that barks and wags its tail: I need to remember that one :))

    Wol Euler: to put it in extremely geeky language: words are pointers, not variables :)

    Darren Islar: but doesn't that bring you closer to the meaning Wol, instead of the word itself?

    Calvino Rabeni: English has an interesting variety of possible rhythms, compared to some other languages, and freedom from using tones for word encoding, which frees them for some expressive variation

    Wol Euler: yes, but until I learned that dogs are also chien, I didn't know that the word wasn't the meaning

    Darren Islar: wow


    Darren Islar: nice way to describe 'smooth' Cal

    Wol Euler: intonation, yes, that is an interesting point

    Calvino Rabeni: I like hearing the tonal languages like Thai

    Darren Islar: I don;t think I can imagine the word being the meaning, pondering about it

    Wol Euler: hello sartre

    Calvino Rabeni: The sounds of words are not empty - they have meanings also, as in mantras

    Darren Islar: hi Sartre

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Satre :)

    Darren Islar: quite right

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hi Satre

    Wol Euler nods.

    Calvino Rabeni: Have you ever heard of the Librivox project?

    Wol Euler: not yet :)

    Calvino Rabeni: It is a project with volunteers creating audio recordings of public domain literature

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: noup

    Darren Islar: I think I will in the near future :)

    Wol Euler: http://librivox.org/

    Calvino Rabeni: So, there are *lots* of voice recordings by amateurs

    Calvino Rabeni: And you can hear the same poem read, maybe 10 ways some times

    Wol Euler: wow

    Calvino Rabeni: Listening like that, gives a feeling for the sound meaning as different from the content meaning

    Darren Islar: like you're playing a piece of music in different ways

    Calvino Rabeni: and how it may help it or detract from it

    Wol Euler nods.

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes llike that, different interpretations and expressive qualities

    Calvino Rabeni: And so I started doing some of those poems

    Calvino Rabeni: and then listening to the sound

    Gaya Ethaniel: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: it is a "little experiment"

    Darren Islar: music has a language of its own, which shows that sounds can speak for themselves

    Wol Euler: ah

    Wol Euler: what a great idea. I love the internets.

    Calvino Rabeni: I started listening a lot more consciously to common public vocal speech acts

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;D

    Calvino Rabeni: Like the TV announcers, who say things like "PREVIOUSLY, on Lost"

    Darren Islar: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: or "THis program is brought to you by ... "

    Gaya Ethaniel nods. Or one can choose to hear either Fsharp or Gflat depending :)

    Gaya Ethaniel: lol

    Wol Euler: :)

    Darren Islar: right Gaya

    Calvino Rabeni: All those commonplaces - become unconscious

    Calvino Rabeni: but have a lot of depth, potentially

    Wol Euler: aural landscape

    Calvino Rabeni: it is qualitative, not semantic

    Gaya Ethaniel: It's amazing isn't it? At the point of hearing F#, the whole structure that pinpoints the note comes up.

    Gaya Ethaniel: One doesn't see the structure but hearing the note as F# points to the fact.

    Wol Euler nods.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Then play again, hear Gflat instead!

    Wol Euler: can you hear an absolute difference, or does it depend on context?

    Gaya Ethaniel: I think it implies that I'm hearing in each context.

    Darren Islar: well, to me it is context

    Darren Islar: the build up and the dissolving

    Gaya Ethaniel: To make a similar example, this may mean also that when I think 'I', I bring up a whole world with it and look through it rather than experience with openness.

    Gaya Ethaniel: But then, I do wonder if living in that openness all the time is possible.

    Wol Euler smiles.

    Wol Euler: for the kind of living we do, perhaps not.

    Gaya Ethaniel nods.

    Darren Islar: we learn to speak when we are very little

    Darren Islar: can't remember myself when that happened

    Darren Islar: so language is taken for granted

    Darren Islar: not really listened at any more

    Wol Euler nods.

    Wol Euler: like the foundations of a building, invisible

    Darren Islar: right

    Wol Euler: it's always interested me that amnesiacs don't forget how to speak

    Darren Islar: only when you start to understand another language, you start to listen better

    Calvino Rabeni: One thing I like is - as when meditating in public place - not being able to understand the meaning of people speaking my language, just hearing the sounds

    Calvino Rabeni: It's a little like being the "little one" again

    Wol Euler: mmhmm, nice image


    Gaya Ethaniel: Time to go. Thanks everyone :)

    Darren Islar: yes, some kind of murmour

    Wol Euler: bye gaya, take care

    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care gaya

    Darren Islar: bye Gaya

    Wol Euler: I must go too, work calls :/

    Wol Euler: enjoy the day

    Darren Islar: bye Wol

    Calvino Rabeni: BYE Wol

    Calvino Rabeni: ALso reminder, the WIKI changes today

    Darren Islar: don't I need a new password?

    Darren Islar: because I still need to post a log

    Calvino Rabeni: I think so, Darren. I am IM-ing Fael

    Darren Islar: okay

    Darren Islar: hi Zaldaan

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Hi.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zaldaan

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Hi hi

    Sartre Placebo: hello zaldaan

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Why do you post logs?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hi zaldaan

    Darren Islar: those are the recordings of the meeting

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Good morning, Sartre and Cosmicflower

    Darren Islar: we post them on the wiki, so others of the group can read it

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Do you hope the wisdom of the visitors here is helpful enough that it must be propagated?

    Darren Islar: it is about staying in contact

    Darren Islar: to me that is

    Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense to me

    Darren Islar: and sometimes yes, we do have discussions bringing insight

    Zaldaan Sirnah: That makes sense -- for those who feel the need, whenever, to see what's going on in the rest of the group's "body"

    Calvino Rabeni: As far as propagation, it kind of amplifies the babble at least as much as any wisdom that might be there :))

    Calvino Rabeni: But there are other interesting effects - it gives mental continuity

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Oh I thought it would reduce the babble

    Calvino Rabeni: No, because people are used to written things being quite filtered and condensed

    Darren Islar: I'm afraid it doesn't

    Calvino Rabeni: the standards of "writing" require that

    Darren Islar: and there is contact in babbling

    Calvino Rabeni: but these are raw chat logs

    Calvino Rabeni: So people read them and might think - not much there

    Calvino Rabeni: however, were you to make a transcript of a recording of nearly any group, it would seem pretty sparse, compared to composed writing

    Calvino Rabeni: It is an understandible expectation

    Calvino Rabeni: Also sometimes it makes possible, for topics to be spread out over many sessions

    Calvino Rabeni: and picked up from before

    Zaldaan Sirnah: sounds like a lot of good reasons

    Calvino Rabeni: just the fact that it is there in the log, can invite people to use their real memory for continuity, using the record as backup

    Zaldaan Sirnah: My consciousness forgets that it's being recorded, being new here, and I probably therefore leak incredible excesses in wisdom right?

    Calvino Rabeni: You might want to be a little careful then... :)

    Calvino Rabeni: I found it hard to adapt to that prospect

    Calvino Rabeni: Especially in the beginning

    Calvino Rabeni: and to know what not to say

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm very practiced, with many many years of experience, in expression of pertinence, and yet I have adapted myself to let go a tiny bit and relax in chat -- and here that goes out the window -- but it's just a desire, to feel an inappropriate responsibility.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: So, anything of importance in your lives at the moment? Perhaps we can help, if necessary.


    Zaldaan Sirnah: where do the bird noises come from?

    Calvino Rabeni: I think they are standard second life background sounds

    Calvino Rabeni: Or maybe installed by the builder of the sim

    Darren Islar: I think the latter

    Zaldaan Sirnah: For years I have wanted an environment simulation system, but much more developed than the environment-sound generating softwares I found.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: One which has many recordings of animals and environments, settable to a particular environment

    Calvino Rabeni: It could be "mocked up" in second life

    Calvino Rabeni: great depth of sound would be harder

    Zaldaan Sirnah: For example, you could pick the salt-water marshes of Southern California, and it would have a bit of knowledge put into it.

    Calvino Rabeni: The other day I was hiking with my camera, but actually wanted a high quality sound recorder instead

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, red-wing black bird

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Biologists, bird watchers, etc. would contribute. "This is the sound the whatever-sparrow makes when the so-and-so-hawk is nearby."

    Calvino Rabeni: right, and the birds that pretend to be other birds

    Darren Islar: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: One fakes the sound of the hawk, then when some birds flee, it raids their nest

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Here in secondlife, we could make bird objects which actually make their noises, and they can scan the objects around them.

    Darren Islar: need to go

    Darren Islar: bye all :)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Hey you guys, a griefer! Everyone leave [so I have extra space in the fountain].

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye Darren

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Just thinking about it worked to scare Darren off.

    Darren Islar: what do you mean Zaldaan?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: just a joke, ttyl :)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I was joking about an SL predator which might scare people

    Darren Islar: and who might that predator be?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: You haven't heard the term "griefer"?

    Darren Islar: of course

    Darren Islar: so who is the griefer here?

    Darren Islar: who is scaring me off in your opinion?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: It's pretend, like the bird mimicking the predatory bird

    Zaldaan Sirnah: the bird doesn't exist

    Darren Islar: I met you today Zaldaan, you just might have said 'bye'

    Darren Islar: and maybe you are the one that scared me off

    Darren Islar: didn't feel like a discussion like this

    Darren Islar: feeling that it was coming up

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Some monkeys are also known to fake the monkey warning-call of a snake being present, then they go and get the food in the water

    Darren Islar: bye everyone

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: bye

    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye darren

    Darren Islar: oops, sorry cosmic

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: don`t worry

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I don't like goodbyes :(

    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, this group meets often enough

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, there are actually no goodbyes

    Yakuzza Lethecus: not the same ppl tho

    Yakuzza Lethecus: but 4 times a day does not really mean a long goodbye :)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: we all are existing

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: anyway

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I will see you later, Darren :)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: somewhere

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: on space and time, on earth

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: can find them people from our hearts

    Yakuzza Lethecus: ok, bye for now everyone

    Zaldaan Sirnah: find them "from" our hearts?


    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;) yes Zal

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: How someone can be "missing" if that One is existing

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is no truly goodbyes

    Zaldaan Sirnah: It feels like love, in a relationship, implies a sharing, such that that person becomes a part of you, and you them. Then when they die, part of you has died.

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmmm, no

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is no death

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: only a portal to another dimension

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: eaven deaths are very near

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Many of the actions and reactions within your system can no longer function the same, and also everything you've done to contribute to their pains in life still exist in your own memory.

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: pain existing that long that its kept, not let go

    Zaldaan Sirnah: what have you read or experienced that gives you the understanding that it is not death, but a portal to another dimension?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: or what is your explanation of that

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its my own life experience and remembering

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I do not need to "prove" my self

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: life experience is my explanation

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: remembering

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and seeing

    Zaldaan Sirnah: it's okay if you don't want to expand on you understanding of it -- I am not asking you to prove yourself.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I appreciate the bit you have shared, thank you.

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah ;) I can not "explain"

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I do share

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: with hmm

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: joy

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but its something I do not know words

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: to explain

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I just know it

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: seen them "ghosts" also, and helped them

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: spirits

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I take death to be same kind of portal to another dimension

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: than birth is

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: from one place to another

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its been since I was a little girl

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: felt them spirits already then

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is no such "thing" what I have done or experienced

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but there is been growth

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: to be more aware

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: to expand mind and soul

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: with others help

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Interesting. I haven't recognized experiencing ghosts, except silly things happening and scaring me as a child, with readily available explanations.


    Calvino Rabeni: Cosmic un-crashed

    Calvino Rabeni: I saw you return before arriving here

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: How did you see?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its a vision inside the head

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: of feel

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: strong feel

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: or knowledge

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: knowing of something

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Is that how it is for you too, Calvino?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: or, for everyone, rather

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not qualified to speak of everyone

    Zaldaan Sirnah: well, that question was to you, and the second (about everyone) to Cosmic

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: for everyone? Sorry, can you explain, not understand

    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the question can be rephrased?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Calvino said he saw... I wanted to know how he saw.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Flower answered, so I wondered if her experience was the same as Calvino's

    Zaldaan Sirnah: and figured, if the knowledge was there, if it's true with everyone's "vision" of things in this regard.

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, "our-Kind" do experience much same way I think

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but truly any of us I think can not speak about everyone, because all have own experience

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but some things might be same "kind"


    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: goes to pick up some trees to fire place from warehouse on backyard

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: (planning barbeque sausage)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: :)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: afk, tea and helping someone

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: back

    Calvino Rabeni: WB Cos :)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Thanks Dear

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh, this fire do warm up in rainy day like this


    Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm curious where you are

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: where?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: how come?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: in rl?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: country

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Finnland

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: And You?

    Calvino Rabeni: USA

    Calvino Rabeni: and you Zal?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Where in U.S. Calvino?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm in Los Angeles

    Calvino Rabeni: Oregon

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Beautiful

    Calvino Rabeni: Yeah true

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I was recently thinking of an old friend of mine who was Finnish :)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Glass grandma

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Oops, we weren't very quiet

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: why need to be quiet?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: well I wasn't even practicing anything abnormal, and my normal state is not peaceful

    Calvino Rabeni: Oh, the bell pause - yeah, it scrolled off my window, didn't see it

    Calvino Rabeni: sound turned off

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Is the bell 24/7?

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the bell is every 15 minutes, regardless whether there is anyone here or a recorded chat session

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I might leave myself here all day then.. or setup alerts on my system.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: to help me and my family

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: just a sec

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Need to help son to barbeque sausage

    Calvino Rabeni: How would that help, Zal?

    Calvino Rabeni: There are bell timer apps for smart phones also

    Zaldaan Sirnah: It would help similar to the way the bell helps here

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Reminders of something to practice or implement

    Zaldaan Sirnah: We get lost here in our work, and another member of our family in other things.. and this would help I think.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I had one set for 5 times a day before.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: But I like every 15 minutes for this repeated... return to self.

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm thinking of using one during the day for that purpose

    Calvino Rabeni: Usually I don't but, Iwant to focus on that "Return" for a while

    Zaldaan Sirnah: http://www.paterico.com/windows-cron

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I won't put cron there, but will make use of the scheduler. In Unix I'd use cron

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: what web page this is?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: is it Yours Zal?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: No, just from a search for "windows 7 cron"

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah okey

    Zaldaan Sirnah: cron is a program used in almost all unix (including linux) systems for scheduling events

    Zaldaan Sirnah: in Windows you use this thing called the "Scheduler". I may have mine play an mp3 every 15 minutes

    Zaldaan Sirnah: maybe a John Denver song ;)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: most likely a gong.mp3 :)


    Zaldaan Sirnah: I had the sound on my computer all the way up, to hear the birds here

    Calvino Rabeni: ah

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Then I played this: http://www.freesound.org/samplesView...e.php?id=59239

    Calvino Rabeni: I know that site

    Zaldaan Sirnah: with two people sleeping

    Calvino Rabeni: night owl :)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Freesound is wonderful :) I have some beautiful Nightingale song, and morning birds, going for hours in a few of these recordings.

    Calvino Rabeni: Is there a nature school in southern CA?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I would be interested about mystery chool ;)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: those kind what we had in egypt many thousands years ago ;)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I don't like that Freesound disables my account so quickly

    Zaldaan Sirnah: nature school. There used to be a zoo-magnet highschool near the LA Zoo

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Cosmic, mysticism school?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes ;)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: it would be interesting

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I go to one.

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ah, there are still existing those???

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Life-Itself is one, but

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: the school

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: There are lots of teachers who try to teach mysticism

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, new age folks

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I know

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but hmm. feeling in egypt many thousands ears back there were different kind of school

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: for priests and priestesses

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I like this school because it has such intense focus, for a long long time, on teaching the truth of things

    Calvino Rabeni: Coming back to yourself then?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I want to share with You something I got some time ago, just a sec

    Zaldaan Sirnah: It seems so -- if getting rid of falsehood and becoming closer to true principles, as well as many other practices which guide to stability... if that's "coming back to yourself", then yes.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: the teaching clarifies thoughts

    Zaldaan Sirnah: aside from the practices (which of course clarify thoughts too)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: It's hard to explain in a few words


    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: This came to my mind when talking about mystery schools and egypt

    Zaldaan Sirnah: k

    Zaldaan Sirnah: thanks

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: felt to share ;)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm not sure if it's a good thing to make too much fiction out of history

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: too much?

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: fiction?

    Calvino Rabeni: Zal and I are likely in the same time zone

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: sleepy time ;)


    Calvino Rabeni: I'm going offline, goodby Cosmic and Zal

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye <3<3<3

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I will go too, rl calls

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Was nice to see You Zal, Enjoy ;)

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