2010.06.05 01:00 - Balance; money; expectations

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Darren Islar. The comments are by Darren Islar.

    Yaku is asking a difficult to answer question and two other small topics came up: why money can be a good thing and about expectations

    But we start off with Fael running a few rounds around the pond :)

    Fael Innovia: sorry about that if you didn't like that :) I felt hesitant to do it so decided to do it a bit more :P
    Darren Islar: :)
    Darren Islar: it looks like some sort of celebration
    Fael Innovia smiles 'It kind of is.'
    Fael Innovia: it's both doing what I'm celebrating and celebrating it at the same time :)


    Darren Islar: brb
    Fael Innovia: that's a funny sound :)
    Darren Islar: have no idea where it is coming from
    Darren Islar: brb
    Fael Innovia: it comes with your brb somehow
    Fael Innovia: perhaps a gesture.
    Darren Islar: yes
    Darren Islar: never had that before
    Darren Islar: probably a gesture yes
    Darren Islar: will look into it
    Darren Islar: for now: br b
    Fael Innovia smiles.

    Fael Innovia: Hi Yaku :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: morning
    Wol Euler: good morning, second life!
    Fael Innovia: Good morning Wol! :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Good "morning"
    Wol Euler: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And I use that term advisedly :)
    Wol Euler: Quotation marks, the Purell of communication
    Fael Innovia: Purell?
    Wol Euler: anti-bacterial hand sanitizing lotion stuff
    Fael Innovia: is that a ... ah ok :)
    Wol Euler: used in hospitals and by paranoid travellers
    Darren Islar: hi all
    Darren Islar: wow, it's usy
    Darren Islar: busy
    Wol Euler: wb darren
    Fael Innovia: doesn't help with psychics :P
    Darren Islar: ty
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Fael Innovia: they'll know what you mean anyway :)
    Darren Islar: (I thought this was going to be a slow morning :))
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i guess in germany the word of sagrotan kind of applied there
    Wol Euler: hello cosmicflower
    Yakuzza Lethecus: cosmic :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hi, ;) loading
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;)
    Darren Islar: hi Cosmic
    Fael Innovia: Hi Cos :)
    Wol Euler: huh, I don't know that brandname. I'm working through a litre bottle of Purell gel that I bought in New York
    Calvino Rabeni: Ah, hello, Cosmic :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello ;))
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: meep meep Fael ;)
    Wol Euler: Meep Meep ;P :p:P :p :P
    Fael Innovia giggles.
    Calvino Rabeni: :::))Meeeeep!
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;D
    Fael Innovia smiles 'Group meeping!'
    Darren Islar: anyone a topic?
    Darren Islar: maybe an experience you had last week?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: meep meep


    Yaku is leading us to the first topic of today, which is a tough one, actually carrying different topics in one

    Darren Islar: Yaku is writing a paper on that :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a constant thought of mine is to find the balance between grasping and being settled down and how much should i do to preserve my body in good fitness ( how to care more for good ergonomie at the computer, or even worse doing sports :P )
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so in fact i have a lot of things i would like to understand better and habituate towards reading and gaining a higher kind of epistemic virtue :P
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Fael Innovia: I have to confess, some of the words I'm quite unfamiliar with :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still, it totally sucks making the happiness depending on success in that direction
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but that is usually what i can get myself into and i can spend hours of thinking ,,what have i really done today"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i mean selfpittyness is a useless habit
    Fael Innovia: if you make happiness dependant on success, it's a bit like trying to dance on a cord.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it makes stuck and doesn´t even lead to good selfreflection when it happens too often
    Calvino Rabeni: Everyone wants "epistemic virtue"... don't they ???
    Fael Innovia: if you balance it right, yes, you get where you wanted. If you make the slightest mistake, you fall from the cord hoping you had a safety net.
    Wol Euler: I hear it's really good on toast with unsalted butter
    Darren Islar: I think that is his question Fael, how to get the balance right
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: happiness, hmm
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think it is about doing those things what makes One feel good
    Fael Innovia: but... tell me Yaku, is your goal in all this to be happy?
    Darren Islar: but I think you describe it yourself very well Yaku; this line of thinking makes you get stuck
    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i don´t actually know i am drifting around

    This drifting around is to me a good description of what I feel is happening. I try to close in on that and use a little pressure, maybe not the best of options I had. I actually don't know. It is so hard to break out of the cycle of your own habits, as it is to figure out what you can do when you are asked to think along with somebody.

    Wol Euler: with the amount of time we all spend here, ergonometry at the computer is absolutely crucial.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes i have the feeling that it´s all about happiness and that happiness is more bound the to ability to find places and communities for selfreflection
    Fael Innovia: I've found that it comes naturally as long as I stay aware of my body.
    Darren Islar: body awareness is a great help
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods, that´s my impression too
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t learn and can´t be as soon i am depressed
    Wol Euler: I've found that I get absorbed and lose awareness of my body, I needed to arrange my desk and chair so that my default posture would have to be a good (safe) one
    Darren Islar: that's a good start :)
    Darren Islar: but you can get aware of your body in different circumstances
    Darren Islar: but it needs some training
    Darren Islar: My impression Yaku is that you try to squeeze yourself through a tiny little hole
    Calvino Rabeni: :))
    Darren Islar: as in your feeling that is the only way you think you can go
    Darren Islar: and the only way to gain what you think is on the other side of that hole
    Darren Islar: and it is all thinking
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t try to squeeze myself at all i just seek for what feels right to do, at least that is what i think about it
    Yakuzza Lethecus: still, i am not sure if i understand all my own habits
    Fael Innovia: the thing about denying yourself happiness unless you succeed is that if you set the goal for success higher than you can reasonably attain, you'll end up not having even the energy to attain what you could if you didn't hold happiness hostage at all.


    Darren Islar: do you really want to understand then?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: only those whom are holding me back and preserve me unable to elaborate upon the things i still define as triggers
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am always circling in the same kind of thoughts about not having attend college, math actually those thoughts are always the same for me
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ups
    Darren Islar: because understanding them needs work
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so i think about my communication and how to create an real and virtual environment or find more where i can ,,just be"
    Yakuzza Lethecus: so here for example it´s a facinating community since it´s even ok to talk about thoughts,impressions,emotions
    Yakuzza Lethecus: just about being
    Darren Islar: but being is about all that what you write right now
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: generally i think a lot of the issue that i am not me that i am you and everyone i am connected to in some way
    Darren Islar: you use thinking as a way of making distance between yourself and your triggers
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i try to get distance yes
    Darren Islar: maybe you should try to take away that distance
    Yakuzza Lethecus: or at least a better perspective
    Fael Innovia: yes, if you never look at it without distance, you'll be missing important information.
    Darren Islar: you don't get perspective by trying to get away from your triggers
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i meant with distance that i don´t want the view of being in the mud
    Darren Islar: you are Yaku, and guess what, we all are
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i want to see me in the mud with the way out of the mud from above in some way :)
    Wol Euler: warthogs unite :)
    Fael Innovia: you want to see yourself in the mud without being in the mud ... that sounds like :)
    Darren Islar: there are techniques to close in on that without getting dragged away, but that needs work
    Wol Euler: warthogs splashing around in mud look up at butterflies and think how pretty they are
    Wol Euler: but you know, butterflies look down at the splashing and think how much fun it must be, and are envious.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, there was such a nice quote the other day
    Darren Islar: and off you are again to another fine quote :)
    Fael Innovia: interjecting something about myself and giving in to this inner voice that wants me to attract attention :) It's saying "look at me" :P
    Darren Islar: you have a way Yaku of letting your brain fly away
    Yakuzza Lethecus: The bird wishes it were a cloud. The cloud wishes it were a bird.
    Darren Islar: not really letting it be here
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stray birds
    Darren Islar: I can see you sitting there Yaku, but somehow I don't have a feeling you are really there
    Fael Innovia: I have to agree with Darren.
    Darren Islar: and don't get me wrong because I know you would like to be
    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/tagore/strybrds.htm
    Darren Islar: but this is one of your habits that is getting in the way
    Yakuzza Lethecus: that quote was 36 btw.


    Fael Innovia: Yaku, you're still trying to solve emotional issues with logic without really experiencing the emotion. That's not the way to do it.

    Cosmic is making us aware of different ways that can be taken to solve, embrace or dissolve issues

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hmm, I think everyone has Own ways to solve things
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is no one right way to do anything
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: we can go to top of the pyramid with every side
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there is existing
    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni agrees
    Wol Euler: agreed.
    Fael Innovia: still, there are some ways that won't work.
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its personal
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: if something do not work with Fael,
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t want to solve the issues i want to embrace them
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: it might work with some other
    Wol Euler: well, maybe :) say that all sides of the pyramid reach to its top, and any side may climbed by someone or other, but not all can be climbed by us now
    Wol Euler: your path might not work for me
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: right
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: all have own "way"
    Darren Islar: it is al true, but this is not about which path to take
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahh
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and perhaps there is also a choice
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: if want to be there at all
    Darren Islar: it is about defining the habit that keep you away from going up the pyramid
    Fael Innovia: yes, do you really want to climb this pyramid?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: there are many pyramids
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: not only one or two, we can choose how we like
    Fael Innovia: yes, if you practise with some easier ones first, this one might end up being easy as well :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I think ;)
    Darren Islar: or you can stay on the ground asking yourself which pyramid to take
    Fael Innovia giggles
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, and what is "easy"
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: its also a bit difficult question
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: because its not the same with everyone
    Fael Innovia: easier, not easy :) Not the same thing.
    Calvino Rabeni: Just as there actually are no "distractions" in the same way there are no "errors"
    Wol Euler: yaku, you are censoring yourelf too much :) Just speak.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: maybe we go the pyramid anyway but when we open look straight forward we see first multiple pyramids then those are in wtf a long distance and we already gain the ability to stop thinking about our next footstep
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ;))) hmmmh
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I like to see the goal, but the "trip" is very important
    Yakuzza Lethecus: not not even the trip
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the moment of being were you are probably ?
    Wol Euler: I find it liberating that the others are so far away, it means that I don't have to worry about them yet.
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: those footsteps
    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the footstep itself, the tactile impression of the sand under ur feed
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the probably warm or hot sand depending if you have shoes or not
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yes, I might say that Living
    Yakuzza Lethecus: the sun warming ur skin and the air around you
    Yakuzza Lethecus: we can all do a dreamtravel to the pyramids together, lol :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: thats right ;)
    Darren Islar: not for me thanks :)

    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Hello Zal
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zal
    Darren Islar: hi Zal
    Fael Innovia: Hi Zal :)
    Wol Euler: hello zaldaan
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Hi :)
    Wol Euler: I'm going to have to get going, I have lots to do in RL today.
    Darren Islar: I guees the problem is that you just don't know how to climb the pyramid
    Wol Euler: bye for now, my dears.
    Darren Islar: bye Wol
    Fael Innovia: Have fun Wol :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: bye wol, enjoy
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care wol
    Darren Islar: need to go too or my hairdresser gets angry with me
    Fael Innovia: have fun Darren :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Enjoy Darren Your day
    Darren Islar: bye all
    Yakuzza Lethecus: have fun darren
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Bye ;))
    Zaldaan Sirnah: tc Darren

    Money, is it really a gas?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: so what are you up to zal ?
    Zaldaan Sirnah: I'm modifying a language reference site to accept non-latin-based languages
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: oh
    Fael Innovia: Sounds like a big one :)
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Hopefully not that involved, but some of what I read has scared me.
    Yakuzza Lethecus: are you allowed to tell us which page exactly to get an impression ?


    Zaldaan Sirnah: Yakuzza, did you get the PM?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, thanks
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi bartus
    Zaldaan Sirnah: It's a site I designed and programmed, but I don't yet want to relate my avatar to my RL work -- because I am not aware of the implications.
    Calvino Rabeni: Implications , hmmmm?
    Zaldaan Sirnah: I don't mind giving it out in privmsg to anyone
    Fael Innovia: I see only implications if you wish to keep this avatar distanced from your RL identity.
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Some of my sites are highly visible -- one time I setup a support board with some private information and someone who visited my site found my rl name from searches on this service, searched for that name, found my support board, got my cellphone # from it (oops), and contacted me.
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Then he wouldn't leave me alone.
    Calvino Rabeni: BTW, the session guardians can't really edit out your avatar name in the log every time, so I hope that "consent to publish" was accepted
    Zaldaan Sirnah: It turns out one of his employees, possibly with his approval, placed his ads all over our site, spamming us, and he wanted to remove it.
    Zaldaan Sirnah: (Spamming, in his case, had the opposite effect, lowering his rating)
    Zaldaan Sirnah: He was nice enough on the phone, but several calls was a bit strange.
    Fael Innovia: you could've told him you'll cooperate but he'll have to pay for your time.


    Fael Innovia: Well, time for me to go. Have fun everyone :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: You too Fael, enjoy the day ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: (belatedly) Bye Fael
    Zaldaan Sirnah: gone too quickly

    Zaldaan Sirnah: I probably should -- I need to learn to be money oriented I guess.
    Calvino Rabeni: If you figure out how to do that Zal, I'll be interested to know :))
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm, well I think if being really good in something, why not to have own business ;)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: then need to learn also to give a price to services ;)
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Cosmic, I don't value money.
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Me neither
    Zaldaan Sirnah: I do services out of love. I help out of love. I work out of love.
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: But I value the freedom what it gives
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and I also do all with love , what ever I do
    Calvino Rabeni: That makes good sense
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Perhaps credit cards have given me enough buffer that I do not have that direct recognition of the freedom it gives. Living in the indistinction of money's purpose is the result, and that leads to an ambiguous (unclear) struggle.
    Zaldaan Sirnah: When I was young I did not have much need for it, just a bit here and there -- so it was similar then. The amounts consumed were small change.
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Studies show that money buys happiness to some extent -- if you make less than 60 or 70k a year (usd), then more can help -- as far as people reporting greater happiness.
    Zaldaan Sirnah: But above that, more money doesn't seem to be related to people's happiness.
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: no , money do not bring happiness
    Zaldaan Sirnah: But these are statistical results, and there is variation and circumnstances.


    Zaldaan Sirnah: How can we have no expectations?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: when no expect anything
    Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps by wishing for the impossible?
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: just Be
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: hmm
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: understanding why is expecting something
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: and then
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: get above it
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: let it be
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: perhaps if can understand why to expect something
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: then no more expect it
    Calvino Rabeni: It's like deciding to "pay attention"
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: yesss
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: right Cal
    Calvino Rabeni: something which is easily forgotten moment to moment


    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: feels right
    Calvino Rabeni: but carried as an intention
    Zaldaan Sirnah: when I deliberately and consciously practice that intention it works well for me.
    Calvino Rabeni: Sustaining seems the difficulty
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Yeah, I believe that is merely practicing it so it becomes a part of my ordinary state of being.
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe, a never ending work
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: spice / or flavour of Life
    Calvino Rabeni: But not like the Sysiphus myth, luckily
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: needs also those sugars too ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: One question is, where are all those "I"'s and what are they doing, when out of awareness? :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: I feel them to be far away in some other planet ;)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: In Andromeda, Sirius, Izar***
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Playades
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: (not sure if its written like that)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: seeing them like half transparent
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: like water can be
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: noticable
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: but seeing through. With long neck
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: in Sun
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: also
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: now I found them Cal ;)
    Calvino Rabeni: that sounds powerful
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ahhh , _/!\_
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: Are You Yaku still here?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: !
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: ok, just aksed ;)
    Cosmicflower Ushimawa: typo !! lol


    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Bye Yakuzza :)

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