2010.06.06 01:00 - don't fear fear

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    Moon Fargis: hi cal :)
    --BELL--
    Stargate Tone: hearts
    Moon Fargis: seemsi seriousley need some tea today:)
    Moon Fargis: hi darren
    Moon Fargis: test
    Darren Islar: hi Moon, Star, Cal
    Stargate Tone: Hello Cal *
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Stargate :)
    Stargate Tone: Hello Darren *
    Calvino Rabeni: Darren Hi !
    Darren Islar: h
    Darren Islar: hi
    Moon Fargis: hi bert
    Darren Islar: hi Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: hello everybody, good morning ! :-)
    Stargate Tone: Hello Bert
    Darren Islar: hi QT
    Bertram Jacobus: hey mr star wars ! ;-)
    Qt Core: hi all!
    Moon Fargis: morning commander Qt
    Qt Core: ;)
    Stargate Tone: good morning Qt *
    Moon Fargis: *yaaaaaawns whidley*
    Moon Fargis: hows everyone this morning ?
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m fine - ty :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: and how are you ?
    Darren Islar: well, you know, if you start to yawn.....
    Moon Fargis: hmmm tired :)
    Qt Core: don't know yet, still doing some diagnostic ;-)
    Moon Fargis: darren: no devil will steal my soul :)
    Darren Islar: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: If you start to yawn .... you are getting more healthy :)
    Moon Fargis: ahh ok :)
    Darren Islar: :) no but yawning seems to be contagious
    Moon Fargis: then i must be the most healthy mal atthe earth now
    Bertram Jacobus: i´m quite awake. slept enough :-)
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm getting it too - *thanks* :)
    Moon Fargis: hmmm i wonder is theres a yawn gesture
    Stargate Tone: pondering what might mean sneezing without head cold
    Calvino Rabeni: Allergies,
    Calvino Rabeni: Hayy fever - (I have it today)
    Qt Core: or just some dust tickling your nose
    Stargate Tone: but when nothing changes in the enviroment and it stoppes as well started
    Stargate Tone: oh
    Moon Fargis: well some say someone thinks at you then
    Stargate Tone: fever is anger to one's self...
    Stargate Tone: ahh
    Stargate Tone: ty Moon
    Darren Islar: hay fever can get up and down, especailly when it is not severe
    Stargate Tone: as one sneeze I know to mean suprise visitor; depends on which side nose tickels :)***
    Calvino Rabeni: Change of weather, many trees put out the floating seeds and pollen right now
    Darren Islar: right, grass at the moment
    Stargate Tone: didnt' notice to think that, that nose sure then can predict also if several visitors *
    Calvino Rabeni: Also sore throat and head ache, itchy eyes face etc.
    Darren Islar: yawning and sneezing :)
    Darren Islar: it is a good start for a sundaymorning :)
    Calvino Rabeni: It is a whole pakage :)
    Stargate Tone: ah yes; ment sneezin withouth those symptoms either
    Moon Fargis: *giggles
    Stargate Tone: so do U Cal have other symptoms than the fever ?
    Darren Islar: if it is an allergy, it depends on how severe it is, what kind of symptoms you get
    Stargate Tone: _/|\_
    Calvino Rabeni: just what I mentioned, Star, plus "cranky" feeling :)
    Moon Fargis: hmhmm as more humans step back from nature as more they seem to be alergic against it
    Stargate Tone: ah yes; just sneezed hugely and here we r ; several visitors to each other *
    Stargate Tone: ahhh
    Stargate Tone: love's if Cal has cranky feeling *
    Calvino Rabeni: !
    Darren Islar: to much hygene
    Darren Islar: too
    Stargate Tone: would be good to breake some porcelain :)***
    --BELL--
    Calvino Rabeni: I think so Darren, in childhood too clean, is not good for later immune development
    Stargate Tone: and to tell Urself that U have no reason to be angry to Urself *
    Stargate Tone: then yawn much and U'll get back to healthy *
    Stargate Tone: (doctor star speaking here)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yep, I was just about to say that Star :)
    Stargate Tone: *giggles*
    Calvino Rabeni: the yawns start up = good sign
    Stargate Tone: but choose such china that is already a bit broken, and it wont make U sad at all; only joy to get rid of such *
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm, will ahve to go shopping at a second hand store :)
    Stargate Tone: ahh
    Calvino Rabeni: as I have no such breakables :)
    Stargate Tone: a pile of a bit broken plates ?
    Calvino Rabeni: You know, I don't think bottles are quite the same at all !
    Stargate Tone: ah so true *
    Stargate Tone: why....have no idea, but think just the same
    Darren Islar: why are we throwing with plates?
    Darren Islar: I'm lost here
    Stargate Tone: hm...plates I use each day many, but not much bottles...so might it be they are not so urgent...
    Stargate Tone: ahh
    Stargate Tone: to get rid of the anger
    Darren Islar: which anger?
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it has to be a little sacrifice to carry away some pain...
    Calvino Rabeni: Something with some slight attachment
    Calvino Rabeni: bottles won't do
    Stargate Tone: as Cal feels cranky
    Darren Islar: oh, okay
    Stargate Tone: but yes; seriously speaking; fever truly is anger to one's own self....
    Bertram Jacobus: but isn´t it also an effect to burn virusses and such ? (feaver)
    Stargate Tone: that creates that effect yes
    Bertram Jacobus: isn´t that to protect oneself ?
    Moon Fargis: *cares his cat*
    Stargate Tone: Greetings to Susi *
    Darren Islar: I don't want to make the connection between anger and fever
    Darren Islar: but anger is there to protect yourself too
    Stargate Tone: _/|\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes it is for that
    Bertram Jacobus: nice assoziations darren !
    Moon Fargis: hmm
    Moon Fargis: a liitle storry to that:
    Moon Fargis: The Prime Minister of the Tang Dynasty was a national hero for his success as both a statesman and military leader. But despite his fame, power, and wealth, he considered himself a humble and devout Buddhist. Often he visited his favorite Zen master to study under him, and they seemed to get along very well. The fact that he was prime minister apparently had no effect on their relationship, which seemed to be simply one of a revered master and respectful student. One day, during his usual visit, the Prime Minister asked the master, "Your Reverence, what is egotism according to Buddhism?" The master's face turned red, and in a very condescending and insulting tone of voice, he shot back, "What kind of stupid question is that!?" This unexpected response so shocked the Prime Minister that he became sullen and angry. The Zen master then smiled and said, "THIS, Your Excellency, is egotism."
    Stargate Tone: wanted to speak that out cuz it's helped ppl to get their fever to lower when I've told that
    Bertram Jacobus: or ... may be , i´d better say : "interesting" :-)
    Stargate Tone: as well if I've got fever, it's lowered when I tell that I have no reason to be angry with myself
    Stargate Tone: there's other way to kill bacteries and viruses also
    Calvino Rabeni: That makes sense to me Stargate about pain in general
    Calvino Rabeni: with pain, there is a piece of anger at self, and if one lets go of it, a lot of the suffering disappears around the pain
    Calvino Rabeni: then it's more just a sensation
    Stargate Tone: _/|\_
    Calvino Rabeni: no big emotional charge, no loneliness and separation
    Stargate Tone: ah yes
    Stargate Tone: the anger works out when one has not been able to notice early enough 'something'
    Stargate Tone: so one sure may let the anger to do it's work too *
    Calvino Rabeni: And sometimes a big emotional suffering is like an onion, peel away the layers and there is some physical focus that is not so huge any more
    Stargate Tone: just that fever uses to lower the feelings and motions also and put to the bed even one wouldn't want to
    Stargate Tone: ah yes*
    --BELL--
    Stargate Tone: our body is often more wise than our mind, but when 'it' 'tells' something to be wrong, there can be the option to find out what that 'something' is and work it out with thoughts *
    Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave again - ty for teh meeting, for your companionship and all. have a nice day. and may all beings be happy plz ...
    Moon Fargis: see you bert
    Stargate Tone: enjoy Bert *
    Darren Islar: bye Bert
    Qt Core: bye Bert
    Bertram Jacobus: tyty *wave* ...
    Darren Islar: I should say awareness
    Darren Islar: instead of thoughts
    Stargate Tone: ah yes; my english is very laggy
    Stargate Tone: as >Ur sure right; the thought sure is not enough; one sure need to realize it also *
    Moon Fargis: hmm i think sometimes its unavoidable that the mind affects the body
    Stargate Tone: ah...think that it's unavoidable always....
    Moon Fargis: especially in big fear and nervousity situations
    Stargate Tone: _/|\_
    Moon Fargis: hmm i think it would be verry intresting if there would be a statistic wich tells how manny illneses are produced by mind
    Stargate Tone: (imo; all)
    Calvino Rabeni: Couldn't have that I think, moon, because the mind is part of most of them
    Moon Fargis: ah well might that be a bit too extreme thinking for me
    Moon Fargis: well sure some infections of viruses and bacterias are unavoidable no matter how good the mind is
    Calvino Rabeni: Awareness is a lot more subtle than what people usually call "thinking"
    Stargate Tone: and sure we r not only one who effects to our mind _/!\_
    Moon Fargis: hmm you mean the viruses effect ourr mind ?
    Calvino Rabeni: TO work with the body, then, is to study awareness
    Darren Islar: yes
    Stargate Tone: choices sure r ours', but we dont create all of them circumstansed on which we need to base our choice
    Moon Fargis: okay then hmm i choise not needing sleep anymore :)
    Stargate Tone: *
    Calvino Rabeni: Ithink you can be partly successful with that, moon
    Stargate Tone: Ur words brings to my mind them ppl in Sweden who chooced to stop eatin
    Stargate Tone: eating
    Darren Islar: brb
    Moon Fargis: ^^
    Calvino Rabeni: If I didn't sleep, I'd have to be better at dreaming while awake *
    Darren Islar: sory about that, don't know what it is
    Darren Islar: but br b
    Stargate Tone: but they didn't tell ppl that they didn't stop drinking
    Moon Fargis: lol thats your anti away attachment
    --BELL--
    Stargate Tone: ah yes Cal; just thought that what would be the 'other way to sleep' as well it's 'oither way to eat' when drinks
    Calvino Rabeni: YEs :)
    Stargate Tone: hm
    Moon Fargis: greetings yakuuza
    Stargate Tone: the U wouldn't get help from good nightmares anymore Moon...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: morning :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah, moon is rezzing :)
    Qt Core: hi Yaku
    Stargate Tone: Good morning Yakuzza
    Moon Fargis: ahyes hehe true
    Moon Fargis: i love nightmares
    Stargate Tone: smiles *
    Calvino Rabeni: that's funny Moon
    Stargate Tone: btw; have U loved them always ?
    Darren Islar: b
    Moon Fargis: hmmm when i started to love fear i started to love them :) ..meaning the good fear...when watching horro movies or playing horrorgames
    Stargate Tone: wb Darren
    Stargate Tone: ahaa
    Darren Islar: ty
    Darren Islar: is there good fear or is it getting a kick?
    Calvino Rabeni: A free horror movie any night you want !
    Stargate Tone: I had thought that it has to do with you to live the buddhist way
    Calvino Rabeni: I never liked going to those movies
    Calvino Rabeni: but I don't mind nightmares
    Moon Fargis: ah star, in a way it is
    Yakuzza Lethecus: and the best as long as ur not a lucid dreamer they are even real to you
    Calvino Rabeni: it is a good drama just made for me
    Moon Fargis: being buddhist means not to live without emotions, but to live with them
    Darren Islar: hey Yaku :)
    Stargate Tone: yes in a way it is, but Ur telling is more specific explonation
    Darren Islar: I don't know if it includes thrills
    Stargate Tone: (loves thrills)
    Moon Fargis: how you would define thrill ?
    Stargate Tone: not so clearly fears, but exitement...
    Darren Islar: getting 'good' fear from a game, sounds like a thrill
    Darren Islar: excitement yes
    Moon Fargis: ah depends
    Moon Fargis: it reallydepends on you
    Moon Fargis: like manny start to fear in horror movies, screaming and just wantto leave, others enjoy the same fear
    Moon Fargis: its just a question how to let it come to you
    Moon Fargis: accept it or running away from it
    Darren Islar: I understand that destinction
    Darren Islar: but looking it up is like searching for the excitement
    Calvino Rabeni: Now I'm thinking of those sex role-play games - I wonder if it is similar
    Stargate Tone: (star's spouse needed often to poke star saying; this is only a movie)
    Moon Fargis: darren, well ofcourse! doing it the right way it gives you great lessions how to deal with your emotions
    Stargate Tone: ah yes Cal; like my way to 'go in' to them movies
    Calvino Rabeni: Actually I don't think it is healthy to "repeat" those experiences, unless there is some "clearing" - if it generates more suffering, it becomes an addiction instead of a clearing
    Darren Islar: there is a difference in dealing with emotions or seeking it
    Calvino Rabeni: ther are important differences, I agree
    Darren Islar: but I don't know Moon what we are talking here about, just wondering
    Moon Fargis: hehe we babble around :)
    Stargate Tone: _/|\_
    Stargate Tone: let things to rise up as they rise up :)****
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, let them - but that is different than seeking to create them
    Moon Fargis: lets say it like this, if we want we can say ther are 2 kinds of emotions, those wich controlls us and those wich we can controll
    Stargate Tone: living the buddhist way; 'no goal; just live the moment'
    Moon Fargis: like i sayd living with them not throught them
    Moon Fargis: and that needs practise also to turn those who controll into those wo are there but dont controll you
    Moon Fargis: and i found those horror movies and especially games a great way to deal with fear
    Darren Islar: ah, okay
    Moon Fargis: if you wish you can set yourself to different trainign methods
    --BELL--
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, then I'd say there are 3 kinds of emotions :) the ones we control have two types, true and false, for lack of a better word
    Qt Core: need to go, bye all
    Stargate Tone: which I've heared huge many men to tell the same
    Calvino Rabeni: Ciao, QT
    Darren Islar: bye QT
    Moon Fargis: ciao
    Stargate Tone: have good day Qt
    Qt Core: Ciao!
    Stargate Tone: Ciao
    Moon Fargis: see in meditation its the same, in the start you will notoce that silence can be damn loud
    Moon Fargis: notice
    Moon Fargis: you then start dealing with your emotions
    Moon Fargis: and experience them
    Moon Fargis: and every time you do that, you may, or may not start to experience that they dont affectyou anymore so strong as they did
    Moon Fargis: gettling more silent
    Moon Fargis: getting
    Moon Fargis: its like a room full of perons talking and everyone talking louder and louder to be heard
    Moon Fargis: but when theres a moment of silence people dontneed to talk so loud
    Moon Fargis: you might remind yourself on such situations in shool when it was loud during the lession and the teacher shouted "silence!"
    Calvino Rabeni: If you can control / create an emotion, the reason is what matters; if it is there to "cover up" somethign else, then it doesn't truly come from real will, and doesn't serve the true self. THe reason and motivation is what matters
    Calvino Rabeni: I think you can see it by the result
    Calvino Rabeni: what grew from it
    Darren Islar: I know that experience Moon
    Stargate Tone: and that's why it's so good to ask often this 'why'
    Darren Islar: but thanks, you explained it well
    Moon Fargis: _/!\_
    Moon Fargis: so its getting late for me , will be a big party here today:)
    Moon Fargis: i shall retreat now and prepare myself
    Moon Fargis: wish you all a nice day
    Darren Islar: same to you Moon
    Calvino Rabeni: Good day Moon
    Darren Islar: have fun
    Stargate Tone: Enjoy *********
    Stargate Tone: shall retire also
    Stargate Tone: wishing good time to U all
    Stargate Tone: hearts
    Darren Islar: thanks Star, to you too
    Calvino Rabeni: Good day to you Stargate :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I think these earlier ideas are important for the healing of trauma and the clearing of the emotional body
    Darren Islar: true
    Calvino Rabeni: There is a confusion people get between releasing, and reinforcing the pattern of pain
    Calvino Rabeni: Repeating without releasing, only makes it more durable
    Darren Islar: but some traumas come with a lot of fear
    Darren Islar: so you need to balance it out
    Calvino Rabeni: but repeating is part of the effort to get free from it
    Darren Islar: and survival patterns are hard to break
    Calvino Rabeni: I think we could say, more exactly, what the "balance" is.
    Darren Islar: they are linked to the fly or fight reaction
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes, that comes into play
    Calvino Rabeni: but the trouble is, the third part of that emotional dynamic
    Calvino Rabeni: which is to "freeze"
    Calvino Rabeni: All animals know this, including us humans
    Darren Islar: true
    Calvino Rabeni: When they get stuck in "freeze", then the emotional process does not resolvee
    Calvino Rabeni: And that is the "stuckness" of the patterns, in trauma or other kinds of distresses
    Darren Islar: In all the three of the situation it doesn't get resolved
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, flight and fight, move emotional energy
    Calvino Rabeni: freeze does not
    Darren Islar: yes, but the wrong way
    Calvino Rabeni: and it is needed, to move it in some way
    Calvino Rabeni: In the right way
    Calvino Rabeni: if it is moved in the wrong way, it doesn't work
    Darren Islar: maybe even again emphasizing the wrong way
    Darren Islar: makes the pattern stronger
    Darren Islar: not weaker
    Calvino Rabeni: The healing process is to allow the energy to un-freeze and move in the right way
    Calvino Rabeni: then the pattern can complete - it is quite natural, just like stretching the muscles when there is a cramp
    --BELL--
    Darren Islar: but not as simple
    Calvino Rabeni: but what makes the pattern stronger, is repeating it "in the mind" only, without giving the body part of the action
    Calvino Rabeni: then the body is incomplete
    Calvino Rabeni: and the pattern gets stronger
    Darren Islar: the pattern is there to block the way to look inside
    Darren Islar: you have no idea what you are looking for
    Darren Islar: and the feelings can be overwhelming
    Calvino Rabeni: That is one part of the pattern -
    Calvino Rabeni: whether it is overwhelming has two aspects
    Calvino Rabeni: it might seem overwelming to the "ego thing"
    Calvino Rabeni: but it might not seem overwelming to the animal Mind
    Calvino Rabeni: OR the other way around
    Darren Islar: to me there is no use in talking about those things in this way
    Calvino Rabeni: With trauma, the animal mind counts for more
    Calvino Rabeni: Hows' that, Darren?
    Darren Islar: those are concepts, it is about the how
    Calvino Rabeni: of course, they are concepts about the how :)
    Calvino Rabeni: And they only work when practiced
    Darren Islar: not to me, they are just concepts
    Calvino Rabeni: but if someone doesn't know the principle,they may not practice, or practice the wrong thing
    Darren Islar: that is true
    Calvino Rabeni: Well, if you create your own concepts, based on your experience, you would likely find *those* concepts useful to yourself
    Darren Islar: but knowing the concept is by doing it
    Darren Islar: we talk a lot about concepts here
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes quite true; but the concept is a memory aid
    Darren Islar: leaving out the real issues
    Darren Islar: because we didn't experience them
    Calvino Rabeni: otherwise one's knowing is unstable and subject to amnesia
    Darren Islar: in a trauma, the knowing is unstable anyway
    Calvino Rabeni: It's necessary for the pratitioner to have some higher level knowledge as guidelines
    Calvino Rabeni: Unless they have great instincts; but even those get conditioned to being mis-used
    Calvino Rabeni: Or unconsciously suppressed
    Darren Islar: that also happens if you keep talking in concepts
    Calvino Rabeni: There are different knowledge at the same time in trauma, some stable, some to be let free
    Calvino Rabeni: Often, a person with trauma can't self-heal, or at least, outside help is useful
    Calvino Rabeni: (would you be able to agree somewhat?)
    Calvino Rabeni: But, if there is self healing, it is like, there are TWO selves at work
    Calvino Rabeni: the healer, and the one being healed
    Calvino Rabeni: Those guidelines are for the healer part, but NOT important to the being-healed part
    Darren Islar: sometimes there is no healer around
    Darren Islar: it is not that I disagree
    Calvino Rabeni: hmm well not a skilled one
    Darren Islar: but concepts have a way of simplifying things
    Darren Islar: (i refered to the healer inside, but yes skilled one healers are hard to find)
    Darren Islar: and symplifying is not addressing the real feelings, and can therefor be hurtful
    Darren Islar: not meant as such, I know
    Calvino Rabeni: SImplifying is not good for the one-to-be-healed
    Darren Islar: no, exactly
    Calvino Rabeni: for the healer, ghe guidelines can be helpful
    Darren Islar: yes, I agree
    Calvino Rabeni: some things actually requires clarity and steadyness
    Darren Islar: right
    Calvino Rabeni: the error in psychotherapy is often, the therapist tries to give the concepts to the one-to-be-healed
    --BELL--
    Calvino Rabeni: and it interrupts their healing process because it is inappropriate
    Darren Islar: they do that, because in ou culture that seems to be the normal thing to do
    Darren Islar: it is not only healers who do that
    Calvino Rabeni: so very true :)
    Darren Islar: 'use the concept and you'll be fine, not using it means you are not motivated'
    Darren Islar: that is the message I got my whole life
    Darren Islar: from therapist and non-therapists
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Darren Islar: 'there is a solution and mine is the only one that works'
    Calvino Rabeni: sadly, all too common
    Darren Islar: I've got a big box full of those solutions
    Calvino Rabeni: Throw it away :)
    Darren Islar: I did, lost friends over it
    Calvino Rabeni: There's a quote from Wm Blake I think is about this -
    Calvino Rabeni: “Improvement makes straight roads; but the crooked roads without improvement are roads of genius”
    Darren Islar: :-))
    Calvino Rabeni: the path of healing is a very crooked road
    Darren Islar: yes it is
    Calvino Rabeni: and the genius therapist can follow it with their clients
    Darren Islar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: but not all those "problem solvers"
    Darren Islar: it is part of our culture: there is a problem, it needs to be solved
    Calvino Rabeni: The most important thing the therapist can communicate - in my opinion - is to say to the client - "I trust your process"
    Darren Islar: right
    Darren Islar: or at least your resources
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes that's more true, isn't it
    Darren Islar: then you don't reduce someone to a 'patient'
    Calvino Rabeni: I trust your resources are adequate and effective, when you use them
    Calvino Rabeni: (or something like that)
    Calvino Rabeni: Kind of a self-trust idea
    Darren Islar: yes
    Darren Islar: then the patient is also a human being
    Darren Islar: to whom you need to communicate
    Darren Islar: instead of telling them what to do
    Calvino Rabeni: yesssss
    Calvino Rabeni: one kind of balance that is needed, for healing, is the balance of awareness of the person who is healing
    Calvino Rabeni: as you know, there needs to be some awareness of the pains and feelings
    Darren Islar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: but also a balance with a "free" awareness that is like a compassion and is unconditioned -
    Calvino Rabeni: maybe some kind of buddha-mind
    Calvino Rabeni: the one that sees the world as healthy, free, eden-like
    Darren Islar: my therapist is a shamaan
    Darren Islar: it helps
    Calvino Rabeni: Shamans can do that
    Calvino Rabeni: not afraid of the "underworld" and can retain their "will" while traveling there
    Darren Islar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: A good picture, it works, thanks
    Darren Islar: yw
    --BELL--
    Calvino Rabeni: Well then I'm very happy to hear that Darren, it sounds like you found a good one :)
    Darren Islar: yes, i did
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm really not sure,what it takes for a therapist or helper to win one's trust - but it's so important
    Darren Islar: finally :)
    Darren Islar: she immediatly addressed another level
    Darren Islar: I could feel that
    Calvino Rabeni: I understand, some potentials are seen immediately
    Darren Islar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: even if they only bear fruit later on
    Darren Islar: yes, still took her years to 'make' me trust her
    Calvino Rabeni: some therapists know how to be personal in an appropriate way
    Darren Islar: but I knew right away, that I was going to get through this process with her, or I wasn't going to do it at all
    Darren Islar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I mean, they are generally people on their own "path" for a long time
    Darren Islar: and instead of giving me solutions, she gave me space
    Calvino Rabeni: and changing as humans too
    Darren Islar: yes
    Calvino Rabeni: That is a crucial thing that space
    Darren Islar: they understand what chaning on a deep level means
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes
    Darren Islar: it is
    Darren Islar: it's a great gift actually
    Calvino Rabeni: And not perfect themselves, but evolving
    Darren Islar: right
    Darren Islar: but now she is closing in on me :)
    Calvino Rabeni: the most important thing to me - initially - about a therapist is whether I can show up as human or they see me as some problem to be fixed
    Darren Islar: right
    --BELL--
    Calvino Rabeni: If it seems at all "fixy" then, I'd run the other way :)
    Darren Islar: that seems to be an appropriate flight reaction :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) intelligence at work
    Darren Islar: I'm getting tired
    Darren Islar: need to go :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care darren
    Calvino Rabeni: OK, nice talking to you as always Darren :)))
    Calvino Rabeni: Have sweet rest :)
    Darren Islar: I will :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Yr quiet, Yaku, wasn't sure you were "here" :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I think there's a good case to be made for discussions that aren't on the recorder, but are for several people
    Calvino Rabeni: As it is, there are 2 choices - the open discussion with the recorded log,
    Calvino Rabeni: versus one-to-one IM's for more private expressions
    Calvino Rabeni: A middle alternative would be good to have
    Calvino Rabeni: I need to go also
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care, be well, Yaku :)
    Calvino Rabeni: bye

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