2010.06.12 07:00 - Fish with hands

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    Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging database.


    Pema Pera: Hi Arch!

    Archmage Atlantis: Good Morning, Pema :)

    Pema Pera: Hi Yaku!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone

    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Yaku.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: how are you both today ?

    Pema Pera: I'm fine, but getting a bit sleepy, it's 11 pm here

    Archmage Atlantis: For myself, well thank you?

    Pema Pera: I just found Wol's note saying she couldn't get in in time, so that's why I showed up :)

    Pema Pera: and how are you, yaku?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i am fine just had a coffee and buiscuits with my farther and his girlfriend

    Pema Pera: did you enjoy the meeting?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: meeting ?

    Pema Pera: with your father and his girlfriend

    Archmage Atlantis: That sounds pleasant

    Yakuzza Lethecus: ah with them, oh it's fine nothing special tho to have coffee with them, actually i often think that i should enjoy those"normal" things more

    Pema Pera: Hi Myna, so good to see you again!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i kind of go through so many things in an non mindful way so to speak

    Pema Pera: very important to enjoy "normal" things :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey myna

    Pema Pera: I hope you're not getting too loaded, Myna :)

    Archmage Atlantis: I assume you mean more often Yaku......one never realizes what one has till it's gone, be be a bit cliched

    Myna Maven: It's been so long...I'm trying to remember how to sit. Feel like I'm on my sea legs.

    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Myno

    Pema Pera: well, welcome back!

    Archmage Atlantis: *Myna

    Myna Maven: Hi, Archmange.

    Pema Pera: How have you been, Myna?

    Myna Maven: Oh, fine. How are you?

    Pema Pera: very well, I'm in Kyoto, Japan now, about ready to go to bed

    Pema Pera: approaching midnight

    Myna Maven: :)

    Myna Maven: I'm curious. What's the view out the window?

    Pema Pera: a tiny little garden, with even tinier little fish swimming in the tiny pond :-)

    Myna Maven: Oh, nice.

    Archmage Atlantis: Pema, I know from previous times that you travel a lot to Japan, I've wondered what the primary purpose of the frequent trips is, if you don't mind my asking

    Pema Pera: they are called medaka, not sure what they are called in English … many of the names I know for animals and plants are country specific

    Pema Pera: oh, variour purposes, this time mostly for my astrophysics research

    Yakuzza Lethecus: rice fish ?

    Pema Pera: I came here to start a large new project, but wound up starting four smaller ones as well …

    Archmage Atlantis: ty Pema

    Pema Pera: rice fish? that would make sense -- in/near rice paddies

    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fres...ightMedaka.php

    Myna Maven: I'm reading they're a hardy aquarium fish. I need hardy aquarium fish. Ours haven't done so well lately.

    Pema Pera: YES, that's what they look like, but they are only a few millimeter long

    Myna Maven: All we have left are guppies and little cat fish.

    Pema Pera: :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus doesn't like the motherly love of guppies :)

    Myna Maven: We had a population explosion a couple months ago. I was amazed with how many survived. We gave quite a few away.


    Archmage Atlantis: Interesting, everything that popped on my search dealt with the medaka's importance in genetic research

    Darren Islar: hi everyone

    Darren Islar: oops

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hi darren

    Myna Maven: When we first got the fish, about six years ago, they were quite a change, as we'd always had dogs and cats before. Quite a transition to creatures that never close their eyes.

    Pema Pera: Hi Darren!

    Myna Maven: Hello Darren.

    Archmage Atlantis: Hi, Darren

    Yakuzza Lethecus: btw. pema are you now just american or do you have the dual citizenship ?

    Pema Pera: I'm sure the fish were happy that your cats were gone!

    Pema Pera: still dual citizenship, Yaku

    Pema Pera: maybe I should get a Japanese one too, for good measure :-)

    Myna Maven: Ah, we had the best cat. It had died by then. And if it was around there would have been no fish. Quite intelligent and could get into anything.

    Archmage Atlantis: I've never had any problems between my cats, fish and birds

    Myna Maven: American Bobtail. They are wonderful cats.

    Pema Pera: sorry to hear that, Myna, always sad when a cat dies . . . how many years did you have the cat?

    Myna Maven: Hmmm. Around 14.

    Archmage Atlantis: But, I never let the cats access to either of the others either

    Pema Pera: wow, long time!

    Pema Pera: That's amazing, Arch, that you manage to keep them all apart all the time!

    Archmage Atlantis: American Bobtail, interesting, mine have all been Bengals

    Myna Maven: And we had a dog (his mother, really, had even nursed him) who died at around the same time. Afterwards we switched to fish, in this aparrtment.

    Myna Maven: Not large enough for animals.

    Archmage Atlantis: It just means remembering to keep the cats occupied elsewhere at times is all

    Pema Pera: that must have been quite a transition, for yourself as well as the animals!

    Myna Maven: But I like fish. We had some great goldfish at first. Grew to be huge, and had nice personalities.

    Pema Pera: nice personalities?

    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, Goldfish get large, koi are even larger

    Myna Maven: Oh, yes. They were playful.

    Archmage Atlantis: I just lost 2 koi to the heat

    Pema Pera: could you recognize different fish having different personalities?

    Myna Maven: Recognized us. Interacted wit us.

    Pema Pera: that's nice :)

    Archmage Atlantis: Koi will let me pet them

    Pema Pera: they can be pretty tame, yes

    Myna Maven: As will goldfish, and one is tempted to pet them, but I later read it will harm the scales.

    Myna Maven: So, I stopped petting them. :)

    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, larger fish are more distinct in their personalities

    Myna Maven: Yes, our guppies don't have much use for us except for our giving them food.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: esthetical use ?

    Pema Pera: well, I think I'll get some sleep -- I'll be back here in 11.5 hours for my own session; I already claimed the log for Wol, who couldn't come

    Myna Maven: Bye, Pema.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night pema

    Darren Islar: bye Pema

    Pema Pera: nice meeting you all here, and especially glad to see you again, Myna!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: when do physicists go to work in the morning ?

    Pema Pera: ??

    Pema Pera: is that a trick question :-)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: true it's sunday :)

    Pema Pera: ah!

    Pema Pera: my work is very flexible; most of it I can do on my laptop wherever I am

    Pema Pera: bfn!

    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night :)

    Darren Islar: bye :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hmm, the only fish i was exposed to today was the tuna in my salad before :

    Myna Maven: Ha. Tuna sounds good.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: yeah, but always the thought because tuna is also a threatened race

    Yakuzza Lethecus: still, it's tasty :)

    Myna Maven: I know....but it is tasty. We don't eat much of it but I enjoy it .

    Yakuzza Lethecus: anyone got some pabish experiences to share on today ?


    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey zaldaan

    Darren Islar: fish having personalities and at the same time eating them, somehow that sounds weird

    Darren Islar: hi Zal

    Myna Maven: I've got nothing to share but I'm listening...

    Yakuzza Lethecus: not to mention that pigs are supposed to be more intelligent then dogs

    Myna Maven: Yes, having fish in your household, and eating them....it causes some thought.

    Myna Maven: One gets over it.

    Myna Maven: I have read thabt about pigs.

    Darren Islar: they are pretty intelligent yes

    Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, i have to admit i usually also like to read more around here when the topic is more pab related, still i don't know how to bring contemplative topics into a flow and an elaborated form to share it

    Darren Islar: by Zal\

    Yakuzza Lethecus: usually it's great to have pema or someone to focus things more

    Darren Islar: hi Zal :)

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Hey!

    Myna Maven: Hello, Zaldaan.

    Myna Maven: I've not been here in so long that I'm unfamiliar with regulars.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: there, aren't that many but you still remember that everything is logged and posted online rigt ?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bieup/66/43/104

    Myna Maven: Yes, I've not been reading lately, but have been following the emails. Saw the PAB board had migrated.

    Darren Islar: the wiki you mean?

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Play as Being: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bieup/66/43/104

    Myna Maven: YouYes, Darren, that's what I mean.

    Myna Maven: The Wiki.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Okay. I was tired of lm's without hotkeys -- this will let me hit a key, get the pab lm in chat, so I can click on it.

    Zaldaan Sirnah: ie. instead of searching through inventory.

    Darren Islar: ok

    Myna Maven: Anyway, the fish. When we first got them, it was interesting....ended up contemplating quite a bit what it would be to live without closing one's eyes.

    Myna Maven: Well, contemplated it for a while.

    Myna Maven: We associate sleep, rest, and often meditativeness, with the ability to shut one's eyes....close out the observed world of the visual sense

    Zaldaan Sirnah: do fish sleep?

    Darren Islar: I don't think I would think of contemplating about something like that, it wouldn't come to mind :)

    Myna Maven: Yes, they do sleep. But I haven't read much about it.

    Darren Islar: I don't close my eyes when meditating

    Yakuzza Lethecus: Answer:Yes fish sleep. But it's not sleep as we know it. They don't have eyelids to close, they sometimes do it during the day, they don't show the characteristic brainwave patterns like REM sleep seen in humans, and some, including most sharks have to keep swimming in their sleep.+

    Yakuzza Lethecus: just copy pasted that from a website

    Myna Maven: I sometimes close my eyes. Sometimes don't.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: http://bigquestion.wordpress.com/200...do-fish-sleep/

    Zaldaan Sirnah: the brain can shut off senses

    Darren Islar: yes, actually me too

    Zaldaan Sirnah: except smell?

    Myna Maven: Smell is persistent, isn't it.


    Darren Islar: maybe, but don't know if that has got something to do with the ability to shut them off

    Darren Islar: it is the only sense thought which information goes directly to the brainstem

    Myna Maven: It's very difficult to anthropomorphize fish, which is one reason it's nice to have them around. Contemplating different states of being.

    Myna Maven: Very different from cats and dogs, at least it was for me, as an urban dweller.

    Myna Maven: Considering it might be easier to anthropomorphize fish with hands.

    Darren Islar: I don't think I get it

    Myna Maven: Fish with hands? Well, there are fish with hands. But I was just being fanciful. Considering what features of animals make us more partial to attributing human characteristics to them.

    Darren Islar: ah, okay

    Darren Islar: fish with hands? :)

    Myna Maven: Play at Being thinking what it's like to be a fish.

    Myna Maven: Yes, hands!

    Myna Maven: Look it up on the internet. Recently discovered I think and the pink version is already on its way to extinction.

    Myna Maven: If I remember correctly.

    Myna Maven: What does a fish without hands think when facing a fish with hands?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: what it's like to be a bat :)

    Myna Maven: :)

    Darren Islar: I wonder sometimes about what animals think or comprehend

    Yakuzza Lethecus: it's tricky for me i often ask myself weather human beings think similar at all

    Darren Islar: but never thought of contemplating about a big dog meeting a small one

    Myna Maven: True, Yakuzza.

    Darren Islar: or something like that

    Darren Islar: yes Yaku, that makes it so hard to contemplate about it


    Darren Islar: (to me that is)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: i gonna sneak out to a different event

    Darren Islar: need to go

    Darren Islar: bye :)

    Yakuzza Lethecus: even tho i struggle with todays topic of the roadside philosopers

    Myna Maven: Bye, Darren. Bye Yakuzza. Bye Zaldaan. I need to go too.

    Myna Maven: Today's topic of the roadsie philosophers?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: ähm, it's bdsm today which i am not that interested in even tho i have to admit that i don't know much about it either

    Zaldaan Sirnah: Bye :)

    Myna Maven: Ah. You mean a "Roadside Philosophers" 2nd life group.

    Myna Maven: I see.

    Myna Maven: Bye all. Hope you have a good day.

    Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone

    Yakuzza Lethecus: wol :)

    Wol Euler: hello everyone

    Wol Euler: sorry I'm late

    Yakuzza Lethecus: will you atten the roadside philosophers today wol ?

    Wol Euler: and thank you to whoever covered for me

    Yakuzza Lethecus: piet grabed the log

    Wol Euler: great, and sorry that it didn't work out :(

    Wol Euler: yes, I was intending to go to the session

    Wol Euler: it's now, isn't it?

    Yakuzza Lethecus: nods

    Yakuzza Lethecus: you still have the landmark ?

    Wol Euler: I'll see you there, then

    Wol Euler: I htink so ...

    Wol Euler: bye zaldaan, enjoy the day

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