2010.06.14 19:00 - Tools

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    The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia. The session was attended by Stevenaia, Archmage, and myself, and later by Zaldaan and Ewan. The topic seemed to be: tools to think by... what different kinds of things could be considered tools.

    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi stevenaia :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    stevenaia Michinaga: how are you?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm good! been busy this weekend :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am really appreciating the latest art projects, the photos are amazing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hard to settle down
    stevenaia Michinaga: here is a good place to try
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, I have to back and take another look
    SophiaSharon Larnia: many had been added last time I was there
    stevenaia Michinaga: there are more every day
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is Steve :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: here comes my cat, there goes my typing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hehe
    SophiaSharon Larnia eyeballs her cats, sleeping further away
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (may not help the typing tho)
    stevenaia Michinaga: major purring here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: cat meditation
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how are you Steve, still on an upswing?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, it is a form of meditation, noticing the warm loving cat on you lap, noticing the room, and the motions and sounds in it
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems so, beginning iChing, now that I have the "tools "(toys)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i used quarters
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but i cant pretend I understand it, not really
    stevenaia Michinaga: so I threw my first group and I see I need some hand holding
    stevenaia Michinaga: I pretend I did, until I threw the coins, now it's a procedural issue with me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, and then finding which hexagram it is :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it seems similar to other contemplative tools, even the "wack yourself on the side of the head" technique
    stevenaia Michinaga: it offers you ways to explore new perspectives, that is what I’m looking forward to
    stevenaia Michinaga: another creativer way of seeing
    stevenaia Michinaga: the same thing, not that anything is ever the same
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Arch
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Arch :)
    Archmage Atlantis: Hello Steve, Soph
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I found myself drawn to the concepts behind it
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but hard to throw the coins
    SophiaSharon Larnia: for me, it reminds me of other forms of divination, and I didnt want to reduce it to that
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, and write it down
    stevenaia Michinaga: and look it up
    Archmage Atlantis: Divination
    stevenaia Michinaga: and see the change
    Archmage Atlantis: Interesting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: none of it is difficult, just have a resistance I guess
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I understand that its a guide
    Archmage Atlantis: May I ask, why there is resistance?
    stevenaia Michinaga: my spouse reads Tarot for years and I think it used the same way

    --BELL--

    stevenaia Michinaga: (she doesn’t read mine)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have enjoyed other forms of divination that ended up as casual things
    stevenaia Michinaga: ouiji :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, tarot, I have many different decks, but only one that I am most comfortable with, and can read without looking at a book :) grins
    Archmage Atlantis: To me, it is only a way of tapping into the less conscious mine
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the ouiji isnt used for divination, exactly
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Arch, a tool
    Archmage Atlantis: A tool, yes
    Archmage Atlantis: like science
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods, as I suspect iching gets with the years, little need to refer to what becomes familiar
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, it will be a very long time before id ever get to that point, i barely look at it, I was so intimidated by what the things meant, I couldnt get it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: other than what it said in the book
    stevenaia Michinaga: hoping pila will help with that over time
    Archmage Atlantis: Yes, that familiarity is why the society he lived in made him drink the hemlock
    stevenaia Michinaga: :), not recently
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Arch, you know, Ive always thought of these things as tools, and have known for years that that is all they are, tools, and we don't really need them. But I hadnt thought of science in that way
    Archmage Atlantis: He continued to question
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but to think of it, hmm, you're right but i need to think about what that would mean then, would all books be tools?
    stevenaia Michinaga: things change so much as time passes with science, your older tools, like iching seem to be complete after 5000 years (or so) yet can still be used today to gain personal insight into... whatever you choose
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :) one of the things that draws me the most is its age
    Archmage Atlantis: Gotts to go
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Arch :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Arch
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking
    SophiaSharon Larnia: one tells of the cyclic nature of time, and the other tries to find what its made of, or something like that
    stevenaia Michinaga: what time is made of?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sorry im sleepy and that didnt come out right
    stevenaia Michinaga: good question, everyone is looking for gravity, no one is looking for time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: one describes and the other wants to find itself? There was something there for a sec but gone :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: if only we can choose what to dream about ahead of time
    stevenaia Michinaga: file it away for a later dream to resolve
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

    --BELL--

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I wish I could chose what not to dream about.
    stevenaia Michinaga: interesting thought, do you have bad dreams?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not bad, just wake up like, what?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not recently tho, i haven't been dreaming lately
    stevenaia Michinaga: mine are usually quite realisting in context, it's the story that is usually unique
    SophiaSharon Larnia: realisting?
    stevenaia Michinaga: realistic
    SophiaSharon Larnia: k thanks :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: surroundings, timelines, etc
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I used to dream alot living a regular life, at one time it got so bad, Id ask people if conversations took place or if it was a dream
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice when friends populate your dreams
    SophiaSharon Larnia: well, yes like that, but going to work, life after work etc, it got confusing
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it wasn’t necessarily about something that had happened that day
    SophiaSharon Larnia: (im fixing the typos in the log ) lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: I do that too
    stevenaia Michinaga: spellcheck
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but i seriously 'remembered' conversations that didnt take place, that gave info i could use
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont know they stopped, maybe because i didnt like it, it was too weird
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice, much of what I wrote down seems like random streams of events
    stevenaia Michinaga: with familiar people and places
    SophiaSharon Larnia: they were too, just blended in my head as if they had happened
    stevenaia Michinaga: wouldn’t it have been interesting f your friend also had the dream conversation
    stevenaia Michinaga: the same one
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i dont know what i would do
    SophiaSharon Larnia: after i picked myself up off the floor
    stevenaia Michinaga: I think that only happens in the movies
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i emailed a friend the other day, about 1/2 hr after she texted me, but i had left my cell phone at my moms
    SophiaSharon Larnia: someone i dont talk to every day
    SophiaSharon Larnia: she was emailing like i got her text but i had no idea what she was talking about haha
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    SophiaSharon Larnia: when we figured it out, i felt that 'yea' when something seems spooky
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but it couldve been a coincidence
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh and she emailed me a picture, not on the text phone after she texted, so that was weird too

    --BELL--

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I asked her, what can we learn from this, now that we know the time delay ^^
    stevenaia Michinaga: was there an answer
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no, not on her end :) she told me to not lose my phone
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: not lost, just not handy
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nope i left it on the charger
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Zaldaan :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Zaldaan
    stevenaia Michinaga: what is that little flowered wreath?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i checked earlier
    SophiaSharon Larnia: its a lei that wester left here
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww
    SophiaSharon Larnia: mustve been a nice session
    stevenaia Michinaga: how are you Zaldaan?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i like your tag
    Zaldaan Sirnah: It's unfitting.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i wear the strangest tags, made my own group just so could make stuff up
    SophiaSharon Larnia: dont do it much any more
    Zaldaan Sirnah: I napped and woke up a bit after 7.
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Ewan
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, theres something nice about that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Ewan
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hopefully you wont be up all night now tho, unless you need to be :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: we werent talking about anything in particular here, but a little about divination, or something :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh and dreaming
    stevenaia Michinaga: tools to think by
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes tools :))
    SophiaSharon Larnia: how could I forget, see i forgot already wow
    stevenaia Michinaga: do either if you have any experience with that?, Contemplative tools
    Ewan Bonham: Such as Mindfulness?
    stevenaia Michinaga: contemplation w/o tools
    SophiaSharon Larnia: using just the mind :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: mind as tool, true

    --BELL--

    Ewan Bonham: Deep and relaxed breathing
    stevenaia Michinaga: yoga and Tai Chi ... movement as tool
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thinking about books as tools, seems obvious but i hadnt thought of it in a certain way
    Zaldaan Sirnah: You can get someone out of your seat with a book.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: by hitting them over the head with it :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: kidding
    Ewan Bonham: What about good poetry?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I mentioned the "wack on the side of the head" earlier
    Zaldaan Sirnah: That's what "scholars" are trained to do.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: poetry as a tool hmm :))
    stevenaia Michinaga: (not kidding)
    Ewan Bonham: Like Rumi
    SophiaSharon Larnia: tool of expression, but as something else hmm
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Ewan Bonham: When reading Rumi, I think of him whirling on the lamp post
    SophiaSharon Larnia: makes me want to whirl too
    stevenaia Michinaga: what is Rumi (a card game?)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you know rumi steve you just forget atm
    Ewan Bonham: He was a Persian Poet- Spiritually Based
    Ewan Bonham: Ecstatic in his own way
    stevenaia Michinaga: oh sorry, context
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Sufi
    Ewan Bonham: yes, sufi
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Student of Shams
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Shams was a student of Sheikh Najmeddin Kobra
    Zaldaan Sirnah: I believe I got the name right.
    Ewan Bonham: Yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i enjoy Rumi because like many poets, i feel they felt something much deeper, and those were the words that got out
    Zaldaan Sirnah: You might like Attar or Hafiz too then.
    Ewan Bonham: Yes, it was like the poetry wrote him
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    Ewan Bonham: Yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: what a great way to put that
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i'll look them up :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: names ring a bell far away
    Zaldaan Sirnah: They're Sufi poets too.
    Ewan Bonham: that too can be a tool
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, its funny how that tool works
    Ewan Bonham: nods
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Emerson said, "Hafiz defies you to show him or put him in a condition inopportune or ignoble .. He fears nothing. He sees too far; he sees throughout; such is the only man I wish to see or be."
    Ewan Bonham: Could we say that certain sound are meditative?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Goethe said, "In his poetry Hafiz has inscribed undeniable truth indelibly ... Hafiz has no peer!"
    SophiaSharon Larnia thinking of steve’s purring cat
    Zaldaan Sirnah: This is from the back of a large book my sister-in-law mailed me from Australia
    Ewan Bonham: Such as Sophigia (spelling) chords?
    stevenaia Michinaga: cats meditate, wonders if it's like a smile or laughter, contagious
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm i know what your talking about but i cant spell it either, those alter brain waves, or something?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the hz
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wow Zaldaan, its sitting right next to you :)
    Ewan Bonham: yes, just looked it up...Selfagio chords
    Zaldaan Sirnah: It is now
    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh haha
    Zaldaan Sirnah: :)
    Zaldaan Sirnah: I think there are sounds conducive to meditating if one "uses" them that way, with deliberate focus themselves
    SophiaSharon Larnia: had a lot of youtube videos at one time on selfagio chords, and a chant cd that i stopped listening to had something on the back about them
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Then there are sounds/arrangements which themselves are prone to doing such a thing.

    --BELL--

    Ewan Bonham: yes, chanting as in Gregorian
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Zaldaan, i think its a powerful tool
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Many people get bothered by things but I've noticed we can adjust our views and acceptance of things, so something which would become irritating becomes perfectly fine.
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it's a nice personal transition
    Ewan Bonham: Sorry, my fingers seem to be racing...LOL
    stevenaia Michinaga: better go catch them
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i just want to say, that during the bell we usually observe the 90 sec silence, but i am not so great at this myself :) Just letting you two know.
    stevenaia Michinaga: catch
    Ewan Bonham: nod
    SophiaSharon Larnia: no problem, you think of something and is interesting
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Recently I've had more difficulty getting away from contemplative meditation
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes it rolls like that
    Ewan Bonham: Getting away from..?
    Ewan Bonham: I am working towards it
    Zaldaan Sirnah: getting away from a contemplative discovery type of meditation into the non-thinking less sensory aware states -- I almost want to call it deeper but I don't know if that is the proper description.
    SophiaSharon Larnia: like trance
    Ewan Bonham: OIC
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ironically thats easier for me, contemplation meditation is much harder for me
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Alpha I guess
    Ewan Bonham: As in alpha rhythms?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i was thinking some kind of alpha theta
    SophiaSharon Larnia: or something
    Ewan Bonham: I am not there yet. When i try to fully let go, I fall asleep...:(
    SophiaSharon Larnia: but there comes a point where it is an escape, or i need to look at things contemplatively
    Ewan Bonham: Contemplation helps me stay in that place where I am at peace yet awake
    SophiaSharon Larnia: be mindful :)
    Ewan Bonham: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I have to leave, getting late here
    stevenaia Michinaga: night all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Steve
    SophiaSharon Larnia: night :))
    Ewan Bonham: Thank you. Now I will be back...:)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yay
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: see you both soon then i hope
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye
    Zaldaan Sirnah: Ewan, for this, keep upright

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