2010.06.23 19:00 - Pele

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

     A two part session which started with Pila, Paradise and me for the first hour talking abut recent earthquakes and a causal connecting principle  and finished with Pila and Druth

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: hiya steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice of you to drop by
    Paradise Tennant: just rezzing :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: as you may have read, Pila assisted me with my iChing confusion
    stevenaia Michinaga: you are off the hook
    Paradise Tennant: smiles Pila would be a far better teacher :)
    Paradise Tennant: lovely night here
    Paradise Tennant: we had a 5.5 earth quake today
    Paradise Tennant: did you feel it
    stevenaia Michinaga: hot and humid here
    stevenaia Michinaga: I heard but did not notice
    Paradise Tennant: my desk positively shook :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: wow
    Paradise Tennant: things wobbled
    Paradise Tennant: rather unsettling
    stevenaia Michinaga: did that big tower say put?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles yep came home have not checked the crystal yet but all looks just fine
    stevenaia Michinaga: stay put
    stevenaia Michinaga: so much for the ground being grounded
    Paradise Tennant: and yes the CN tower is still flashing adn fully vertical
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    Paradise Tennant: we have the g20 in full swing
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww, a sign
    Paradise Tennant: here had a nice chat while walking the dog with a delegate from spain
    Paradise Tennant: so true !
    Paradise Tennant: it was a sign
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice
    stevenaia Michinaga: any insight offered
    Paradise Tennant: smiels
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    --BELL--
    Paradise Tennant: hmm no just amazing how human we are all . much the same .. regardless of where you originate .. ;) the city is really empty .. everyone has pretty taken off :) al the offices downtown the law firms are closed tomorrow and friday really quiet here :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice,
    stevenaia Michinaga: canadians are so much more mellow that most
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: my spouse went to McGill, we visit her freinds often
    Paradise Tennant: yep walked by two crowd control police this morning on the way to work who were wearing helmets with the face mask all the gear .. and stopped to wish them a very nice quiet day :) which is precisely what they got I bet :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: lot of gear to wear in this heat
    Paradise Tennant: yes!
    Paradise Tennant: must have just cooked in it :)
    Paradise Tennant: we have all the police in the entire southern part of ontario downtown for this event it seems .. likely all kinds of misbehavin going on in niagara falls :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pila
    Paradise Tennant: hiya Pila gtsy :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi
    Pila Mulligan: laggy :)
    Paradise Tennant: yes took a while to rez for me too tonight
    stevenaia Michinaga: I saw that by the way you zoomed by
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: aha, seated at last :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles how are you :) pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: how are you Paradise and Setev
    stevenaia Michinaga: bet it's cooler in Hawaii than here
    Pila Mulligan: souonds like you're into summer then
    Pila Mulligan: 70ish here
    Pila Mulligan: Farenehit
    Paradise Tennant: very well thanks ..was just telling steve .. we had a 5.5 earthquake here this afternoon ..everyting really really rattled :) very odd feelin g
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, not an unfamiliar expereience Paradise, I appreciate your unsettled ness
    stevenaia Michinaga: 81 here @ 10:30
    Paradise Tennant: hiya ewan sorry did not see you earlier .. :)
    Ewan Bonham: hi folks
    Pila Mulligan: 81 at night is nice and warm, Steve
    Pila Mulligan: hi Ewan
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hello Ewan
    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks for your help the other night Pila, you should subcontract to those help desks somewhere
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: happy to help
    Paradise Tennant: smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: I thought I was the only one with close to infinite patience
    Pila Mulligan: I'd have to move to Inida then
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol... and learn to type
    Pila Mulligan: :))
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise, may I pose an idea that may seem odd ... regarding your earthquake?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles I installed a wireless system last night on the typed instructions of someone in calcultta .. they walked me through it and were infinitely polite and helpful .. was very impressed :)
    Pila Mulligan: nice
    Paradise Tennant: loves odd ideas :)
    Pila Mulligan: I've had good help from Indian desks also
    Pila Mulligan: has anyone associated the earthquake with the G20 meeting?
    Paradise Tennant: well
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I think they collect good evaluation by those who they help
    Paradise Tennant: yes steve just said it was a sgne
    Paradise Tennant: sign smiles
    Pila Mulligan: it is rejected instinctively by reasonable people, but I'm of the opinion that there are associations beyond reason in these things that may be relevant
    Pila Mulligan: Jung wrote about synchronicity as 'an acausal connecting principle'
    Paradise Tennant: ahh just too many powerful egocentric peeps in one spot is shifting the plates ?
    Pila Mulligan: and I view it in that sense -- acausal but associated
    Ewan Bonham: Associations?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles yes
    Paradise Tennant: nods
    Pila Mulligan: well, you are applying reason :)
    Pila Mulligan: i.e., that powerful egocentric peeps in one spot cause shifting the plates ?
    Pila Mulligan: Jung would just say, they were sychronous
    Pila Mulligan: that is signficant enough
    stevenaia Michinaga: or the weight of their own self importance
    Pila Mulligan: and beleive me, in earthquake land you see plenty of these associations
    --BELL--
    Paradise Tennant: just that there was a relative ocurrence ?
    Ewan Bonham: a priori
    Ewan Bonham: brb
    Pila Mulligan: Pele is something of a teacher here, the volcano diety
    Pila Mulligan: I worked on litigastion with lawyers for the Pele Defense Fund some years ago, on Native Hawaiian issues
    Pila Mulligan: on each court date there was a significant seismic or lava event
    Pila Mulligan: that was noticeable
    Pila Mulligan: so whatever the basis for the association, those events were associated
    stevenaia Michinaga: so they dismissed the case?
    Pila Mulligan: and so I'd say there may be some signficance
    Pila Mulligan: e won part and lost part :)
    Pila Mulligan: we*
    stevenaia Michinaga: the Diety was a person?
    Pila Mulligan: the point Jung made is that westerners attribute signifcance by reason and causation
    Pila Mulligan: Pele is the idefication of the volcano
    Pila Mulligan: the volcano goddess
    Paradise Tennant: once was on a business call with a chap in san francisco .. during their last really bad earthquake some years back ..he was crouching under his desk and said he could see the office towers waving like blades of grass in the wind .. wanted me to call his wife ..when she landed from her flight to new york and tell her he loved her if .. the phone went dead .. had trouble breathing ... just keeping the conversation light .. was so happy when it stopped and he was ok .. pele can exact a very harsh toll :)
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele_%28deity%29
    Pila Mulligan: yes, earthquakes can be devastating
    Pila Mulligan: but even small ones can be rattling and unsettling
    Paradise Tennant: nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: how do you litigate a diety?
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: ask a lawyer, I suppose
    Pila Mulligan: these were land development issues that involved the volcano
    Pila Mulligan: opposed by Native Hawaiians
    stevenaia Michinaga: awww
    Pila Mulligan: an attempt to indusatrialize the rainforest where I live now
    stevenaia Michinaga: a client you do not want to loose to
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: so Jung said his acuasal connectiing principle also was a sound basis for determining signifcance
    Pila Mulligan: and that is how I see the two big synchronous Toronto events (G20 and earthquake) -- just a singifcant association
    Pila Mulligan: (note: signficiance to be deteremined subjectively)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it does not happen there that often, does it Paradise?
    Paradise Tennant: nope
    Paradise Tennant: maybe once every 8 years or so
    Paradise Tennant: a mild tremor
    stevenaia Michinaga: too often for me
    Paradise Tennant: this one was quite severe by our standards
    Paradise Tennant: smiles on the plus have to take the dog to work for the next two days ..my dog walker cannot get in ..so two days at the office being petted and adored by all the staff for my canine friend here .. it has it pluses :)
    Pila Mulligan: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, lucky Blue
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at pila :) ..
    Pila Mulligan: you guys are the blue square in the upper right of the map
    Pila Mulligan: on the link
    stevenaia Michinaga: nice map
    stevenaia Michinaga: is there an ammimation of the last year in quakes?
    Pila Mulligan: hmm, I've not seen an animation
    Pila Mulligan: it woud be an interesting idea
    Pila Mulligan: 'dancing earth'
    Ewan Bonham: Earth dancing with the universe
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles at ewan yes precisely
    stevenaia Michinaga: earth's indigestion
    Pila Mulligan: now here's a similar map for Hawaii Island http://tux.wr.usgs.gov/
    --BELL--
    Paradise Tennant: smiles so you are always rattling and rolling :) Pila
    Pila Mulligan: pretty much, but not at 5.5 fortunately
    Pila Mulligan: the biggest one this week was 3.0
    Paradise Tennant: hiya druth :)
    druth Vlodovic: hey
    stevenaia Michinaga: it it weekly, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: the last bad one was 2006
    Pila Mulligan: it is hourly :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Druth
    Ewan Bonham: hi druth
    Pila Mulligan: but most of them you do ont feel
    Pila Mulligan: hi Druth
    Paradise Tennant: how bad was the last one pila
    Pila Mulligan: the last bad one was 6.7 in October of 2006
    Pila Mulligan: that one was easy to feel
    Pila Mulligan: $100 million damage
    Pila Mulligan: lights out of four isalnds
    Pila Mulligan: on*
    Pila Mulligan: road damage
    Paradise Tennant: no damage here .. just adrenaline :) well considering right now there are more security people in the city than regular people in the city .i suspect it elevated a lot of heart beats .. we thought it was a bomb at first :)
    Pila Mulligan: I can imagine
    Paradise Tennant: smiles just imagine all the walkie talkie chatter it must have engendered :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: Was Blue aware the things ahead of time?
    stevenaia Michinaga: behaving strangely
    Paradise Tennant: hmm nope
    Paradise Tennant: normal in the morning happened in the early afternoon ..so I had been at work for quite a while
    Paradise Tennant: it is fairly common for the animals to all take off well in advance of an eruption for instance no ?
    stevenaia Michinaga: that; what I heard
    Pila Mulligan: that's the folk lore
    stevenaia Michinaga: wonders if the runing animals cause the earthquake
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: smiles they are so much smarter than we are ...on so many levels :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: how do things change when you view volcanos with godesslike stature?
    stevenaia Michinaga: greater fear or understanding
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: well, it probably varies from person to person -- maybe the same anxieties, but a more integrated sense of nature -- Native Hawaiians treat nature as a whole, with dieties for various parts, so Pele is not by herself
    Pila Mulligan: I liked your yong quan exhibit Steve
    Pila Mulligan: and the comments in Sunday's log
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
    Pila Mulligan: another apsect of nature :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it was a nice meeting on monday discussion everyone's works
    Paradise Tennant: yes read the log .. looked like a great sessions
    Pila Mulligan: will it be logged, or posted?
    Paradise Tennant: so much creativity brought to bear :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: it has been
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, answered before asked :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'll get the addres
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Pila Mulligan: I don't see iton the PaB wiki index
    Paradise Tennant: sell alas it is late here and I have small friend who would like some exercise >> so I will say good night . thanks veyr much for the conversation :) as always a pleasure :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Art/Being_in_Time%3b_Being_as_Time/2010.06.21_14%3a00__BEING_AS_TIME_-_Special_Session
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: bye Paradise, nice to see you
    druth Vlodovic: bye paradise
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy the rest of the week and your city's guests
    Pila Mulligan: thanks for the link Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: enjoy, I must depart as well, busy week remaining
    Pila Mulligan: nice to see you, have a warm evening :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: good seeing you Pila, Druth and Ewan
    druth Vlodovic: 'later steve

     

    Paradise and I departed and Pila and Druth continued the session


    Pila Mulligan: well, Druth and Ewan, I hope you are both well and happy
    druth Vlodovic: reasonable :)
    Ewan Bonham: Thank you and you...:)
    Pila Mulligan: all's well and fine thanks
    Pila Mulligan: may I ask where you are located? (roughly if nto exactly)
    Pila Mulligan: I am in Hawaii as oyu may have guessed
    Pila Mulligan: from the previous chat
    druth Vlodovic: 3m to your left :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: close then
    Ewan Bonham: I am in florida
    druth Vlodovic: Ottawa
    druth Vlodovic: which island?
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, some other people here often are from FLorida and Paradise (just left) is in Toronto
    Pila Mulligan: Hawaii Island (the Big Island)
    Pila Mulligan: so you felt the earthquake too Druth, Paradise was a bit rattled by it
    druth Vlodovic: it's my third,
    Pila Mulligan: they get your attnetion
    Ewan Bonham: There was an earthquake today?
    druth Vlodovic: the first was an experience, "solid ground" changes meaning lol
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    druth Vlodovic: epicentre was just north of Ottawa
    Pila Mulligan: as does vibration
    Pila Mulligan: yep, and 5.5 -- that's big enough
    Ewan Bonham: Any damage?
    druth Vlodovic: this one more rumbled than anything, like an extremely big truck, we're not near a tectonic plate edge so it''s a bit different, they say
    Pila Mulligan: an intersting website on earthquakes: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/
    druth Vlodovic: some in Gatineau (quebec)
    Pila Mulligan: yours is the blue square ni theuppe rright of the map
    druth Vlodovic: I was looking at that earlier
    druth Vlodovic: you must be familiar with earthquakes Pila
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: more by exp[ereince than science
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: this map shows how people commented on what they felt -- http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/dyfi/events/us/2010xwa7/us/index.html -- an interesting approach to seeing its effect
    Pila Mulligan: affected by interenst service locations no doubt
    Pila Mulligan: where reports can be submitted
    druth Vlodovic: I used to like things that were definite, solid, or at least I thought there were such things, earthquakes have shaken me up more philosophically than physically :)
    Pila Mulligan: it covered a large area
    Pila Mulligan: reminds me of leanring mass is mostly empty space :)
    Pila Mulligan: solis stuff is mostly empty
    Pila Mulligan: solid*
    Ewan Bonham: Well, w can only accept what is to come
    Ewan Bonham: little control over it
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: I learned today that at any given moment there are about 50 lightning stirkes taking place somewhere on earth
    Pila Mulligan: that's alot of activity too
    druth Vlodovic: which is lucky for plantlife, nitrogen fixing
    Pila Mulligan: of course, that wa wiki to, for what it is worth :)
    Pila Mulligan: ahh, lightning fixes nitrogen
    druth Vlodovic: what's the worst quake you've felt?
    Pila Mulligan: probably to 6.7 in 2006
    Pila Mulligan: the*
    Pila Mulligan: it was a bad one
    Pila Mulligan: i've fel smalle rones closer that also shook tings up
    druth Vlodovic: makes fertilizer, strange how things fit together
    Pila Mulligan: lighting makes fertilizer :)
    Pila Mulligan: bye druth
    Pila Mulligan: oops, pardon me
    druth Vlodovic: hey roberto
    Pila Mulligan: bye Ewan
    druth Vlodovic: bye pila
    druth Vlodovic: oh, :)
    Pila Mulligan: I was menaing to say goodbye to Ewan :)
    Pila Mulligan: are you science oriented?
    druth Vlodovic: for themost part, you?
    Pila Mulligan: no
    druth Vlodovic: how do you see the world?
    Pila Mulligan: mostly as nature
    Pila Mulligan: just what is is
    Pila Mulligan: not why
    Pila Mulligan: I appreciate science and enjoy reading about things
    Pila Mulligan: just never immersed my self in it
    druth Vlodovic: I remember my math teacher telling me that you need imagination to be a good mathematician,
    Pila Mulligan: :) I have some math oriented frineds with the same opinio
    Pila Mulligan: and they are quite imaginative
    druth Vlodovic: I imagine you need a good appreciation for the world in order to be a good scientist
    druth Vlodovic: just a more detailed way of looking at it
    Pila Mulligan: it seems many scientists are also interested in the non-scientific aspects of life -- have you met Pema here?
    druth Vlodovic: yes
    Pila Mulligan: the avi named Pema Pera
    Pila Mulligan: he is quite a RL scientist
    Pila Mulligan: but heal so organized this place
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: do you know much about solar electric systems?
    druth Vlodovic: I suspct the suspician between scientists and spiritualists is more from religions, obedience vs thought question
    druth Vlodovic: solar? not really
    Pila Mulligan: yes, although scientists also have a conformity problem
    Pila Mulligan: I'm looking onto solar electric :)
    Pila Mulligan: trying to learn more
    druth Vlodovic: a lot of them are non-conformists :)
    druth Vlodovic: going to go off the grid?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, many are, but the grant getters seem to play well with others
    Pila Mulligan: I'd like the option of being off grid some day
    druth Vlodovic: or they don't get grants
    Pila Mulligan: :) yes
    Pila Mulligan: like everything else, sciecne seems to follow the money
    Pila Mulligan: solar equipment is getting much less expensive
    Pila Mulligan: by the way :)
    druth Vlodovic: lets see, you don't need heat, so you want cooked food, refrigeration, light and air conditioning :)
    Pila Mulligan: and I use propane for cooking
    Pila Mulligan: and no need for air conditioning (up on a mountain)
    druth Vlodovic: spend some time around pre-industrial "villages" and you can see things a new way
    Pila Mulligan: so refrigeration light and the water pump
    Pila Mulligan: yes indee
    Pila Mulligan: dor even just camping
    Pila Mulligan: or*
    Pila Mulligan: for an extended time
    druth Vlodovic: you could collect water in a tank, though you might need to keep some chlorine about for health reasons,
    druth Vlodovic: maybe a root cellar?
    Pila Mulligan: I think decentralization of utilties is a helpful idea
    druth Vlodovic: I think decentralization is a good idea in general
    Pila Mulligan: we already use rainwater catchment tanks in this area .. that part is finis :)
    Pila Mulligan: hence the water pump is an electric need
    druth Vlodovic: local food, local government etc
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: more healthy
    druth Vlodovic: you can get an old fashioned hand pump, get water and exercise together :)
    Pila Mulligan: the rainwater ctahcment systems are very well filtered these days
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    druth Vlodovic: also problems are dealt with closer to the source of the problem
    Pila Mulligan: I use one of these -- http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filters.com/whole-house-ultraviolet.php
    Pila Mulligan: I was skeptical at first, but it actually works quite well
    druth Vlodovic: I remember hearing that the US uses a top-down method of dealing with crisis, the federal government is expected to recognize the problem and mobilize resources
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and in an emergency people are less dependent on transportation then
    Pila Mulligan: if they are locally organized
    druth Vlodovic: in Canada the local government is expected to evaluate and ask for what they need
    Pila Mulligan: more sensible, doing it locally
    Pila Mulligan: our local emergency repsonse is quite adequate for oridnary events, but not for big emergencies
    druth Vlodovic: it gets some jokes going though, a Toronto mayor was ribbed for years for calling the military in to deal with opening roads after a particularily bad snowstorm
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    druth Vlodovic: I suspect they would have cried differently if he hadn't

    druth Vlodovic: I heard of a place in africa using microwaves for water purification

    Pila Mulligan: I wish there was a fix for the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, speaking of emeregencies
    Pila Mulligan: rainwater ctahcment is a growing idea, it is the only choice in many places
    Pila Mulligan: actually, it is the techology that is growing, the idea i sold
    Pila Mulligan: is old*
    druth Vlodovic: I wonder, they seem intent on harvesting the oil, and the idea of dispersing the oil seems odd too, why not tolerate a bigger disaster in a smaller area by letting it hang together, and maybe trying to contain or direct it?
    Pila Mulligan: intersting idea
    Pila Mulligan: send it to Cuba?
    Pila Mulligan: bad joke
    druth Vlodovic: I guess you don't have a lot of rivers on islands (working from total ignorance here, I know you have some)
    Pila Mulligan: only Kauai, the oldest island has what you may call a real river
    Pila Mulligan: we have streams
    Pila Mulligan: but they flow with the rain
    druth Vlodovic: well, directing it would be limited, but it seems they have a lot of people working on a lot of angles
    druth Vlodovic: ah, they dry up then
    Pila Mulligan: yes, and they seem to be at a loss for immediate response ideas
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: yes, they get dry
    Pila Mulligan: there are upper-mountain-origin streams below regular rainy areas that have a pretty steady flow, but many streams just get water after a local rain
    Pila Mulligan: there are also a few spring fed streams
    druth Vlodovic: it might be an example where the government should step in, but I can understanding why they didn't, "OK sir, we have an, oil spill, now what?"
    Pila Mulligan: but no real rivers
    Pila Mulligan: yes, maybe after this one they will
    druth Vlodovic: do they do any desalination? or do they rely on rain?
    Pila Mulligan: but this time they did not seem to have the answers
    Pila Mulligan: no, deslination is not started here yet
    Pila Mulligan: plenty of rain
    Pila Mulligan: plenty of aquifers too
    druth Vlodovic: do you have snow topped mountains?
    Pila Mulligan: yes, three of them
    Pila Mulligan: in winter at least
    druth Vlodovic: ah, so also not a reliable source of water
    druth Vlodovic: and no icebox to replace your freezer :)
    Pila Mulligan: nope, but the area I live in for exmaple gets about 200 inches of rain per year
    Pila Mulligan: we buy ice :)
    Pila Mulligan: I live in the precipatation zone on the windward side of a mountain
    Pila Mulligan: the wind s come 2000 miles from California soaking up Paciic Ocaen mositure
    Pila Mulligan: then they dump it all here
    druth Vlodovic: I read post-appocalyptic stories, and can't help thinking, "They can keep a car running for a hundred years with no parts, but nobody has learned to carve a chair?" that's why I like looking to the past for solutions, they may be less efficient, but they do have imagination
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    druth Vlodovic: so it's like a jungle?
    Pila Mulligan: plus more than half the modern gdagets we use are not necessary
    Pila Mulligan: yes a rainforest-jungle
    druth Vlodovic: "inconvenient conveniences"
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: and processed foods
    druth Vlodovic: lol, we grow corn and export it, and eat American corn, how does that make sense?
    Pila Mulligan: believe it or not the gorceirs here import bananas fomr Calicfornia
    druth Vlodovic: I'll look for hawiian bananas next time I'm in the grocery store :)
    Pila Mulligan: they are yummy, but they are not big in chain stores
    druth Vlodovic: it's easier to understand if you realize that corporations don't have minds
    Pila Mulligan: :) true
    druth Vlodovic: but are filled with private individuals who each has one mind
    Pila Mulligan: and also are driven by profits
    Pila Mulligan: so the mass transportation of low cost wholesale stuff gets prioroity
    druth Vlodovic: since the ehtical code is "make money anbd don't worry about anything else" each person tries to make money for himself and doesn't worry about the company
    Pila Mulligan: or anything it seems
    Pila Mulligan: anything else that is
    druth Vlodovic: somebody gets paid to order it in, to set up the transportation etc.
    Pila Mulligan: after the great depression the recovery was not so difficult at the local level, the last thing to be set up again was the transportation-distribution systme
    Pila Mulligan: hello Zaldaan
    druth Vlodovic: even if it costs the company more money to import than to pick locally it's harder to get money for yourself (and hide it) if you make things too simple
    druth Vlodovic: hi Zaldaan
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Zaldaan Sirnah: greetings
    Pila Mulligan: I'm trying to get t be as food self-sufficeint as I can
    Pila Mulligan: growing fruit trees and food plants
    druth Vlodovic: you have property then?
    Pila Mulligan: thrift, health and independence :)
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: and things grow all year here so it is easier
    druth Vlodovic: I know a guy who only works maybe half his life, if that, and travels everywhere, thrift, health and independance could be his motto :)
    Pila Mulligan: and I am retired so the thrift part is improtant
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    --BELL--
    Pila Mulligan: well, druth, nice to chat with you, and nioce to see you Zaldaan -- time for dinne rhere
    Pila Mulligan: bye for now :)
    druth Vlodovic: I was just thinking of going too
    druth Vlodovic: sorry Zal :-/

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