2010.06.24 13:00 - "falling into myself"

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

    Wol Euler: hallo lia
    Lia Rikugun: hello wol
    Lia Rikugun: how are you?
    Wol Euler: how are you?
    Wol Euler: snap
    Lia Rikugun: snap?
    Lia Rikugun: i asked you first :)
    Wol Euler: something the English say, when two people say the same thing at the same time
    Lia Rikugun: hehe
    Wol Euler: I'm well, very tired but basically content wiht my life
    Lia Rikugun: hello sophiasharon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Lia, hi Wol :)
    Wol Euler: hello sharon
    Lia Rikugun: i am happy to hear wol
    Wol Euler: and yourself?


    I am telling Wol about an experience I had during meditation with Calvino and Liza which felt like "falling into myself"

    Lia Rikugun: i am very good, was just meditating with liza and calvino
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Lia Rikugun: and had an interesting expereience
    Wol Euler: oh!
    Lia Rikugun: or well i thought it was interesting
    Wol Euler: do tell
    Lia Rikugun: we started with some body work
    Lia Rikugun: to get a good feeling of the body
    Lia Rikugun: and see how it feels
    Lia Rikugun: and then we did a silent meditation
    Lia Rikugun: where we concentrated on our breathing
    Lia Rikugun: and suddenly I had the feeling of falling into myself
    Lia Rikugun: it is difficult to describe
    Lia Rikugun: but somehow a little scary
    Wol Euler: do you mean literally falling, like down through space?
    Lia Rikugun: just because it is no well known expereince
    Lia Rikugun: into my body
    Lia Rikugun: but now it is already fading away
    Lia Rikugun: and i can only give you the words of my reflections on the expereince
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Lia Rikugun: also like loosing the I a little
    Lia Rikugun: and then this moment of realization
    Lia Rikugun: which then was scary
    Lia Rikugun: as if the 'I' was scared that it lost control for a moment
    Lia Rikugun: somehow it felt a little bit like falling asleep maybe
    Lia Rikugun: HAHA, maybe I just fell asleep
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Lia Rikugun: and now i am telling you about it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes its hard not to :)
    Lia Rikugun: so it was a strange feeling, and i guess i need to think about that
    Wol Euler: hello zon
    Lia Rikugun: hello zon
    Zon Quar: hieya all
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Zon )
    Lia Rikugun: I was just talking about a weird feeling I had during meditation
    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you for sharing that Lia
    Lia Rikugun: something like : falling into myself
    Zon Quar: nods


    Wol, SophiaSharon and Qt have had similar experiences, the 'I' drifting away while falling asleep

    Lia Rikugun: do you have any experiences like that?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i feel very removed from experiences like that atm
    Lia Rikugun: i am not sure if i understand sophia
    Wol Euler: I've felt something like that when I was falling asleep when I shouldn't have been
    Wol Euler: (at work, on a train)
    Wol Euler: it was abrupt and somewhat shocking, like a switch turning off, rather than falling smoothly asleep in bed
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Wol Euler: is that how you felt?
    Lia Rikugun: i dont think i fell asleep
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i meant I have felt something close to that in a while Lia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: haven't*
    Lia Rikugun: atm = at the moment :)
    Wol Euler: hello qt
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes sorry :)
    Lia Rikugun: somehow I thought of retrieving cash
    Lia Rikugun: HAHA
    Qt Core: hi all
    Zon Quar: qt
    Lia Rikugun: hello Qt
    Wol Euler: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Qt
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Lia haha
    Lia Rikugun: we are talking about near like falling asleep expereinces
    Lia Rikugun: and when have you had such experiences sophia?
    Qt Core: i had many of those
    Lia Rikugun: in which circumstances
    Lia Rikugun: and?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ususally in a state prior to dropping off to sleep
    Lia Rikugun: and then you woke up again?
    Lia Rikugun: or your self was back
    SophiaSharon Larnia: which for a long time was the meditation, why i thought i couldnt do it :)
    Lia Rikugun: or how did you realize?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: it feel disassociative to me, ive havent been able to reconsile that feeling within myslef, all this time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: reconcile*
    SophiaSharon Larnia: i put down that thinking after a while, i haven't examined it for a while either

    Qt tells us about a floating experience in this transition moment of real world and dream world

    Qt Core: i usually feel as i'm floating at a few cm from the floor in a stand up position then i fell forward usually on the stairs of my home
    Wol Euler: :)
    Lia Rikugun: outch
    Qt Core: that is i almost dream i'm on those stair
    Qt Core: then i woke up
    Lia Rikugun: sophia sorry to ask again, which thinking did you put down I didnt understand
    Lia Rikugun: qt was this during meditation or while dreaming?
    Qt Core: no, just before sleeping, seconds before
    Lia Rikugun: seconds before you feel like floating
    Lia Rikugun: and when you realize this you wake up again?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: this subject, the feeling of 'I' losing control. I've felt similiar things, but not for what feels like along time :) And then stopped examining it :)
    Qt Core: i'm on the verge of falling asleep then i feel like i'm falling, with the knowledge about being floating, then i woke up
    Lia Rikugun: thank you sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
    Lia Rikugun: interesting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Qt, like its right there ?


    the 'I' is always following me, is there an 'I' while dreaming

    Lia Rikugun: I am struggling with the 'I', I cannot get ridd of it
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: HAHA
    Lia Rikugun: it does always seem to follow me
    Qt Core: i've read somewhere years ago that it may be from a glitch in the passing of the control from the "day shift" to the "night "one controlling the body (mostly the heart rythm
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you mean prior to falling asleep :)
    Lia Rikugun: this is the biological explanation
    Zon Quar: sry, i must slip away, bye all
    Qt Core: bye Zon
    Lia Rikugun: bye zon
    Wol Euler: gye zon
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Zon
    Wol Euler: *bye
    Lia Rikugun: once I had a dream where i was very aware of the situation
    Lia Rikugun: which was very interesting
    Lia Rikugun: this was somehow the opposite
    Lia Rikugun: taking the 'I' into the dream world
    Lia Rikugun: the daylight I
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wouldnt it be funny if we took someone else I into the dream world
    Wol Euler: heheh


    meeting friends or relatives in dreams

    Wol Euler: or met somebody there
    Wol Euler: and next day, they told you about a strange dream they'd had...
    Lia Rikugun: i had once a very intense dream
    SophiaSharon Larnia: the landscape would look weird and strange
    Lia Rikugun: where i met my mother
    Lia Rikugun: and i was absolutely sure it was her
    Lia Rikugun: I still am :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :O
    Wol Euler nods.
    Wol Euler: hello storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi there everyone
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Storm
    Lia Rikugun: hello storm
    Qt Core: hi storm
    Qt Core: i never dreamed about a relative, untill a couple weeks ago
    Lia Rikugun: we are talking about falling asleep like experiences
    Lia Rikugun: and dreams which are very real
    Storm Nordwind: Thanks Lia
    Lia Rikugun: yes qt?
    Qt Core: i don;e even usually dream about people i know
    Wol Euler: but there are other people in your dreams?
    Qt Core: yes, sometimes many, and i know who they are in the dream storyline, but usually not recognizable in rl
    Qt Core: pretty self centered even in dreamland i am ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Wol Euler: :)

    the chinese philosopher Zhuangzi who dreamed about being a butterfly

    Storm Nordwind: As for dreams that are very real, I guess someone has already mentioned the Chinese philosopher Zhuangzi (?)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not yet Strom
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Storm*
    Lia Rikugun: i am not familiar with
    Wol Euler: the butterfly?
    Qt Core: never heard about him
    Storm Nordwind: He lived about 2300 years ago - yes Wol
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Storm Nordwind: He said "Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man."
    Qt Core: ohh, never know/remembered the name
    Lia Rikugun: hehe very nice
    Lia Rikugun: maybe both
    Qt Core: maybe a man dreaming and a butterfly having a nightmare ;-)
    Lia Rikugun: poor butterfly
    Qt Core: how to sorvive whitout flying, so few limbs and only twwo eyes ?
    Storm Nordwind: Butterflies get it in the neck don't they? Next thing you know, they'll be being blamed for hurricanes next.
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Qt Core: worse than global warming are those!
    Qt Core: hi Eliza
    Lia Rikugun: hello eliza
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Eliza
    Storm Nordwind: Hi Eliza
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt, Lia, Sharon, Storm, Wol :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: blame the butterflies
    Lia Rikugun: we are talking about dreams, came there from talking about a feeling close to falling alseep and loosing control of the 'I'
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh, interesting!
    Eliza Madrigal zooms in on Wol who looks interesting and elegant today, too :)

    loosing the spatial orientation while falling asleep, the dreaming experienced as a memory?

    Qt Core: ohh, now i got what the 'I' part of the discussion was coming from!
    Wol Euler smiles
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: (ty for the note Sharon)
    Eliza Madrigal listens
    Qt Core: when i feel the falling i have only spatial disorientation as as i said before i usually think i'm on the stairs, not in my bed
    SophiaSharon Larnia: brb
    Lia Rikugun: it is a weird moment
    Lia Rikugun: a switch between realities
    Lia Rikugun: and usually you cannot really be aware of it
    Lia Rikugun: only if you come back to beeing completely 'I'
    SophiaSharon Larnia: right Lia :D
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I haven't looked at it that way
    Lia Rikugun: i tried to catch this moment some time ago
    Lia Rikugun: but slowly your awareness fades
    Lia Rikugun: or well the Is awareness
    Lia Rikugun: and this also means the control
    Lia Rikugun: the control of focus
    Lia Rikugun: maybe
    Lia Rikugun: at least this is somehow how I felt it
    Lia Rikugun: so you cannot control to watch this moment
    Lia Rikugun: but fly waway into this othjer world
    Qt Core: sometimes i got a little angry/sad as i experience only the fall while "knowing" about the floating and knowing it was a good thing/feeling, but not really experiencing it
    Lia Rikugun: maybe it is like a memory
    Lia Rikugun: you can sometimes remember
    Lia Rikugun: but not live the moment?

    Qt could have the floating experience without falling

    Qt Core: a few times in all my life i got the floating experienced and with not even falling at the end, a rare lovely thing
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: randomly Qt, or inspired by something?
    Qt Core: don't know, so rare, not enough data for an analisys ;-)
    Wol Euler: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
    Qt Core: the only common thing is that it is not the same place, i'm elsewhere, dn't remember where but not at home
    Eliza Madrigal: hmm, like out of context...
    Qt Core: maybe, but it is not a frightening place, it's nice
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: and nice to hear about, too
    Lia Rikugun: yes thank you for telling us!
    Lia Rikugun: its really interesting
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I have to go, bye for now all :D
    Lia Rikugun: bye sophia
    Wol Euler: bye sharon, take care.
    Qt Core: bye Sophia
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Me too, actually. Thanks for a lovely mood
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Lia Rikugun: bye eliza
    Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care
    Qt Core: bye Eliza
    Storm Nordwind slips away quietly
    Wol Euler: bye storm
    Qt Core: bye
    Qt Core: wooshh
    Wol Euler: and goodnight all, I'm falling asleep in my chair
    Wol Euler: take care
    Qt Core: 'sleep well
    Lia Rikugun: good night wol
    Wol Euler: and thank you both for sharing with us
    Lia Rikugun: tschuess
    Lia Rikugun: :)
    Lia Rikugun: I think I will leave too
    Lia Rikugun: bed time
    Qt Core: ok
    Lia Rikugun: was a very nice session, thank you
    Qt Core: sleep well, ty
    Lia Rikugun: byebye
    Qt Core: bye

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