2010.06.26 07:00 - Healthy Pride and Imagination

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia. This session was attended by Yakuzza, Calvino, Bertram, Bleu and myself.

I arrived to the pavilion at 7 am, and sat by myself for 15 minutes before Yakuzza arrived. This 15 minutes of being alone in the pavilion is a somewhat unusual occurrence for me. I found myself thinking very ‘loosely’ as I looked at the surroundings of the pavilion. It struck me then how being in a place or doing an activity can seem to cause one to slip into a particular habit associated with that place or activity, and how prevalent this is with much of what we do every day.

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Yakuzza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ssl
SophiaSharon Larnia: how are you?
Yakuzza Lethecus: a bit sleepy
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i woke up at 6:00 am this morning with no reason
Yakuzza Lethecus: usually i sleep a bit longer on the weekend
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
SophiaSharon Larnia: I was just thinking, since i was sitting here, that our moods sometimes correlate with where we are, as a matter of habit. Getting up that early is a habit for you :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Good (morning) !
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
SophiaSharon Larnia: after sitting for a few minutes, virtually in this pavilion, I become more contemplative
SophiaSharon Larnia: you'll be getting old man habits Yakuzza, up every day very early :D
Yakuzza Lethecus sneaks to an other avatar
Yakuzza Lethecus: cya later
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yakuzza
SophiaSharon Larnia: your losing your ZZZZ's above your head Cal, are you waking up? :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and I see you are awake also :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs

--BELL--

I asked Calvino some questions in IM about the wiki, and an upcoming theme session.

Calvino Rabeni: Note to the log - a discussion about methods of editing the wiki was taking place in IM - but we spared you from reading the humdrum details

--BELL--

Bertram arrives and shares some news. I had to go at 8:00 am.

Bertram Jacobus: hey sharon and cal ! :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Bertram :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: I was talking with Cal in IM about the wiki, so no particular topic atm
Bertram Jacobus: how are you ? do i disturb ? ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: how are you?
Bertram Jacobus: ah - ty for the explanation ! :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni dropped trackball and it rolled away
Bertram Jacobus: all fine here only a bit exhausted - and you ? :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Bert :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: very good Bert!
Bertram Jacobus: hey cal ! what is the meaning of the "Z" above your avatar ? :-)
Bertram Jacobus: ah - are there reasons for your nice condition sharon ? :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Bert, I don't know about in Europe, but ZZZZZ means sleeping to Sharon and myself
Calvino Rabeni: now I'm awake :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and now the last Z is gone hahah
Bertram Jacobus: in europe same cal - aha :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: no reason Bert :)
Bertram Jacobus: hmmm :-)
Bertram Jacobus: unbelievable ! :o)
Calvino Rabeni: hehehe - feeling good, what is the explanation?
Calvino Rabeni: Answer: None
SophiaSharon Larnia: right :D
Calvino Rabeni: LIke, do you have a good excuse ?
Calvino Rabeni: Ah no , sorry
Bertram Jacobus: oh - sometimes it´s a new love, good work, so many lucky circumstances - all that cal ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: very very true
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, Bert, then it could be inspiring to hear about
Bertram Jacobus: yeah ! :-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Bleu :)
Bertram Jacobus: hey bleu :-)
Bleu Oleander: hey all

--BELL--

Bertram Jacobus: as, for example, that fay gets thrown out of the house of her former bf and now found a new house very very very luckily cal (!) (?) :-))
SophiaSharon Larnia: first i was talking with Cal about the wiki, then Bert about having no reason but feeling good anyway --- And now I must go :D
Bertram Jacobus: okay - how sad ! bye sharon ! ... ;-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh Bert that is fortunate!
Bleu Oleander: hi and bye Sharon :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye :))
Bertram Jacobus: that was and is so very important ...
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Sophia
Bertram Jacobus: change from fear to luck
Bleu Oleander: wonderful change
Bertram Jacobus: especially because she has a little daughter above that all ...
Bertram Jacobus: yes. we are very happy about it !
Bleu Oleander: how old is her daughter?
Bertram Jacobus: 4 years "old" ;-)
Bleu Oleander: ah, big changes for everyone .... very fortunate!
Bertram Jacobus: and her mother is such a busy young woman - able to handle so difficult situations ! ...
Bertram Jacobus: yes - but it was and is also her merit, the effect of her business ...
Bleu Oleander: what does she do?
Bertram Jacobus: in only few days, not many weeks she managed it to get more work (because nessecairy) and now even the new home ... if proud wouldn´t be bad, one could feel some ... ;-9
Bertram Jacobus: she is simply managing all what is necessary ...
Bertram Jacobus: finds solutions
Bertram Jacobus: is quick
Bleu Oleander: that's great
Bertram Jacobus: yes. I’m impressed
Bertram Jacobus: and happy - was not easy
Bleu Oleander: i'm sure!

The discussion here is where I got the title for this log. An interesting perspective of healthy pride and imagination…

Calvino Rabeni: Ah, well pride in itself is neither good nor bad, I think, to comment on what you said earlier
Bertram Jacobus: interesting
Bertram Jacobus: i was waiting for a comment
Bertram Jacobus: but when is pride then good and when bad ?
Calvino Rabeni: When true or mistaken, when attached or non-attached
Bertram Jacobus: hm . interesting . *smile* ... :-)
Calvino Rabeni: So if a person feels good about doing something useful to self or others, and is not dependent on that feeling, that would be a healthy pride I would say
Bertram Jacobus: nice words ! :-)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bertram Jacobus: yes cal - i can agree with that i guess ... :-)
Calvino Rabeni: Many words like pride and imagination, come loaded with cautions, that say - this is how it can go wrong ...
Calvino Rabeni: like imagination that leads to delusion, versus imagination the leads to truth or good creations
Bertram Jacobus: yes, again :-)
Bertram Jacobus: "ha" ! vajrayana ?
Calvino Rabeni: as imagination could take one farther from reality, or closer ...
Calvino Rabeni: as we might say about the "Mind" in general
Calvino Rabeni: and therefore the concern with "right use of the mind"

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: (I think, often it means "intellect")
Bertram Jacobus: but only for a while (imagination), as a part of the path, right - in the end ... doesn’t imagination disappear as mean for oneself to "come closer to reality" ?
Bleu Oleander: "right use of the mind" interesting phrase :)
Bleu Oleander: say more Bertram ....
Bertram Jacobus: vajrayana for example uses imagination, but as it is also said "in the ends only the buddhahood remains, not the sangha and even not the dharma" - which means, also the means and methods get dispensable ...
Bertram Jacobus: become*
Bertram Jacobus: sry :-(
Bertram Jacobus: is that understandable ? what i mean ?
Calvino Rabeni: Is that about a state of awareness, or is it a guideline for practice?
Bleu Oleander: I think so
Bertram Jacobus: state i guess. guideline ? in which way could that be ?
Bleu Oleander: so imagination is a means to buddhahood?
Bertram Jacobus: in the vajrayana practises - yes.
Bleu Oleander: and is then dropped?
Bertram Jacobus: i would prefer to say, it disappears naturally
Bleu Oleander: ok
Bleu Oleander: no further need for it?
Bertram Jacobus: yes. that, too
Calvino Rabeni: If your imagination were completely accurate with reality, it would seem to disappear
Bleu Oleander: interesting, never heard that before
Calvino Rabeni: but you would still be using it
Calvino Rabeni: This happens during normal waking consciousness
Bleu Oleander: yes
Calvino Rabeni: imagination is used to know what is happening
Calvino Rabeni: but we don't call it that, and think things are driven by perception only
Bleu Oleander: a useful way to get by in the world?
Calvino Rabeni: essential :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Calvino Rabeni: even for the lowest life forms :)
Bleu Oleander: I value my imagination ability and wouldn't want to lose it :)
Bleu Oleander: must go .... have a wonderful day :)
Bertram Jacobus: same same ty :-)
Calvino Rabeni: You also, Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: bye for now
Calvino Rabeni: And Bert, I will do the same :)
Bertram Jacobus: oki bye cal *wave*
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
Bertram Jacobus: namasté