2010.06.27 13:00 - Understanding PaB...

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    This session began with the wondering guardians may all have at times, how do we succinctly yet clearly describe PaB not only to newcomers to the session but also to our RL friends? And perhaps how do we clearly understand PaB for ourselves?  Yakuzza, Wester, Arabella and I have conversation about this, realizing that we each might have different perceptions but also different levels of focus on this question, what we would try to describe to others and perhaps to ourselves.  Another strand is the mysteries of SL: Yaku having a box rezzed when he logs in, I having the occasional experience of rezzing with stripes on my face; the mysteries also of the imagination as seen in avs, and other creations.  SophiaSharon joined us in this discussion as did Fael very near the time I had to go, after the first hour.  The session continues with Stevenaia, Bleu, Mickorod...

    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku
    Maxine Walden: nice to see you again today
    Maxine Walden: may be some lag today
    Yakuzza Lethecus: no, there isn´t that much
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am in an im conversation as well
    Maxine Walden: ah, I see. Thanks for letting me know
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey wester
    Wester Kiranov: hi maxine, yaku
    Maxine Walden: hi, Wester
    Maxine Walden: nice to see you; been awhile
    Wester Kiranov: yes, i've stayed in my own slot a bit. i think even a bit too much
    Maxine Walden: ah, I know about that! Hard for me to get out to others' as well. We are all so busy it seems, easy to get into a narrow way
    Wester Kiranov: yes, and sometimes I just get a bit down, and it all seems too much. And of course those are exactly the times when I should see some other people (well, avatars) than the regular vistors
    Maxine Walden: yes, those can be difficult times, when it feels such as just to withdraw....feels like 'too much work' to seek others such as in PaB...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i often feel that it´s hard to focus on the essence of pab since i never really got the feeling having a clear view on it´s essence, but the frequent presence of ppl like pema/gen/eos/pila in the past gave me more kind of a feeling of that.
    Maxine Walden: Gave you the feeling of the essence of PaB, those individuals, Yaku?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: Oh, of course i have always a set of ppl i have the feeling whom are able to communicate these issues better, i can´t say that i don´t like anyone either even arch is not a problem at all for me.
    Wester Kiranov: I feel PaB has an essenceless essence
    Maxine Walden: Maybe we could spend a bit of time right here, wondering about the 'essence'; ah, Wester thinks of the essencelessness. Wester, care to say more about that?
    Wester Kiranov: I think the most important thing about PaB is its openness. There is nothing to hold on to. There is a point to these meetings, of cpurse, but if you try to catch it in words it vanishes
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Wester Kiranov: It is more a place to find out, to see all the different ways Being can manifest, in yourself and others
    Wester Kiranov: *course
    Maxine Walden: I find the spaciousness also key, open, without expectations, but maybe wonderings...wonderings about Being at this moment...as you suggest, Wester
    Maxine Walden: and a trust...trust that the openness will in its own time...reveal perhaps gentle kinds of momentary truthst or experiences...for me then trust is another key
    Maxine Walden: but when I am pressured or have other 'expecations' or damands, perhaps from other parts of my life, it can be difficult to just be/Be with that spaciousness and trust; the pressured me can perceive that as 'emptiness'
    Maxine Walden: Yaku, could it be that part of your uncertainty of maybe frustration with PaB is that you feel it should be a certain way? You should have a certain feeling?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: in parts i am only unsecure as GoC
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i like to come here i fear my own disabiltiy to communicate it, especially when i try to bring friends to pab
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i have a rough time to communicate what it´s really about
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t mind sitting in the round and listen i remember many issues that i really consider helpful even when terms like dropping are open definitions in my mind
    Wester Kiranov: I often find if difficult to communciate PaB to outsiders as well.
    Maxine Walden: you know, so do I have anxiety about how to communicate it at times. That can feel like one of the pressures, as if letting my fellow PaB folks down
    arabella Ella: Hiya
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ara
    Wester Kiranov: hi ara
    Maxine Walden: hi, Ara,
    Maxine Walden: we are expressing some of our anxieties about telling newbies about PaB, among other things...other uncertainties perhaps
    arabella Ella: oh thanks for filling me in Maxine :)
    Wester Kiranov: yaku - and I know that when you feel friends you can feel pressure about how it looks to them
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Maxine Walden: yes, Wester
    arabella Ella: Yaku please take a seat :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: sry :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i had 2 big chatwindows open
    arabella Ella: ah
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i didn´t see the avatars
    arabella Ella: you would then like the new laptop with two screens
    Yakuzza Lethecus: a regular desktop pc with 2 screens if you have the place but it´s a thread for every well organized flat :P
    Yakuzza Lethecus: treat
    Yakuzza Lethecus: threat
    arabella Ella: why a threat?
    arabella Ella: oooops
    Maxine Walden: :)

    Maxine Walden: Wonderings...about how we can creatively think about PaB concerns here, but also have to say, wondering about that box as well...anyone know about it?
    Maxine Walden: the one suspended?
    Wester Kiranov: I was wondering about the box as well. Maybe there's a cat in it ;-)
    Maxine Walden: ??
    arabella Ella: it is Yaku's box
    Maxine Walden: ah, Yaku's box!!
    arabella Ella: yes i dont know why brings to mind magical mystery tour
    Maxine Walden: Yaku, can you tell those of us who do not know about it something about it?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: my box ?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s just happening
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i log in with emerald and that thing spawns
    Maxine Walden: ah...
    Yakuzza Lethecus: on other places i often get the message that i don´t have the rights to do so
    Yakuzza Lethecus: but here i am allowed and the box is just rezzing without me doing anything
    Maxine Walden: sometimes I log in a get stripes on my face...maybe something similar?
    Maxine Walden: the mysteries of SL?
    arabella Ella: LOL
    arabella Ella: Maxine ... how would you explain to a friend in RL what PaB is all about?
    Maxine Walden: very good question...let me think a bit...maybe a question for us all?
    arabella Ella: yes
    arabella Ella: but perhaps we could avoid the obvious like meeting so often, etc
    Maxine Walden: First, I would have to admit to myself that my view of PaB may not represent everyone's, may be unique to me so that I do not have to feel I need to speak for everyone.
    Maxine Walden: For me, PaB began and still continues as explorations in the nature of reality
    arabella Ella: it would be interesting to hear your perception
    Maxine Walden: And that reality is far more vast than any of us can perceive, imagine, get our minds around
    Maxine Walden: So, part of PaB is the recognition of wider minds, of Being, far vaster than my little
    Maxine Walden: being
    arabella Ella: ah but Maxine
    arabella Ella: that is already very abstract
    arabella Ella: and it raises a question
    Maxine Walden: And the dropping, the pausing, is to try to open to a wider Being than I usually am in touch with.
    Maxine Walden: Yes, Ara, question?
    arabella Ella: if reality is more vast than any of us can perceive, imagine, etc, how can we get to explore the nature of reality at all?
    arabella Ella: (questions from an enquiring mind not critical so please take in right spirit)
    Maxine Walden: For me getting beyond my little self is the best way to begin to explore reality...and the practices is one way to drop my 'self' as much as I can
    Maxine Walden: to open up beyond my 'self' may allow greater appreciation for the wider reality.
    arabella Ella: Hiya SSL
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone, sorry to arrive so late ;)
    Maxine Walden: Hi, SophiaSharon
    Wester Kiranov: hi sophiasharon
    Wester Kiranov: we were discussing how to explain PaB to your friends
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ah! :)
    Maxine Walden: But we each likely have a very unique take on PaB...
    Maxine Walden: what it means, what experiences...ah, we have a pause coming...what if we use it to wonder about our perspective on PaB?
    arabella Ella: there are also many levels of interpretation
    arabella Ella: (as in semiotics)
    Maxine Walden: yes...
    arabella Ella: PaB is made up of a community that has persisted in time in a surprising way and that consists of individuals who generally trust and respect each other
    arabella Ella: nearly three years i guess
    arabella Ella: which must be SL record
    Maxine Walden: yes, the trust and community is a wonderful aspect, and might be one of the first things one would tell friends...a kind of description of the atmosphere
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I usually just say I participate in an online discussion spirituality group (knowing that designation doesn't encompass much of PaB) and say more if the person appears interested.
    Wester Kiranov: i actually like it better the longer i am in it. it feels more natural all the time
    arabella Ella: was there a time when part of it did not feel natural then Wester?
    Wester Kiranov: in the beginning i thought it was just weird. i distinctly remember i wasn't sure i wanted to come here that often
    arabella Ella: interesting
    arabella Ella: and yet it grew on you?
    Wester Kiranov: it grew on me. and pretty soon, as well
    arabella Ella: :)
    arabella Ella: it is nice to bring to mind a reminder though as Maxine said 'to explore the nature of reality' which is also a phrase if i am not mistaken which Pema has used too
    arabella Ella: 'reminders' are important
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes very much :)
    Wester Kiranov: and here we are - exploring reality in SL :)
    Maxine Walden: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: now that part was weird to me at first hahaha
    arabella Ella: you mean exploring reality in RL but via a virtual world?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: not bunny avatars and angels :D
    arabella Ella: via pixels?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes ara
    arabella Ella: yes but that for me is one of the biggest advantages
    arabella Ella: as it allows us to cut across oceans and continents and cultures etc
    SophiaSharon Larnia: absolutely :)
    Maxine Walden: yes, and the avs also allow us to explore the reality of each other's imagination
    Maxine Walden: or our own...
    arabella Ella: oh and also across age, gender, status, etc
    Maxine Walden: absolutely
    Wester Kiranov: Yes, there's a very real contact without a lot of the usual chitchat
    Maxine Walden: so, after I got used to the slight disorientation of SL I was able to appreciate, and still do, the opening, the many dimensions of openness which SL allows
    Maxine Walden: more perspectives on reality that I had envisioned...one issue is not to get too overwhelmed or lost in all these SL elements, at least for me
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nods
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Fael :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Fael
    Wester Kiranov: I just stay in this pavillion - except i occasinally go to the Kira cafe.
    arabella Ella: meep meep meep!!!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice of you to run in
    Wester Kiranov: hi fael
    Maxine Walden: :)
    Fael Innovia: meep meep meep! :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Fael Innovia: a hug, maxine? :)
    arabella Ella: speaking for myself i still enjoy visiting new sims
    Fael Innovia: stand and face me first before :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: me too Ara :) I m amazing by peoples creativity :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: amazed*
    arabella Ella: yes I ttoo am amazed with ppl's creativity and that is why I so enjoy exploring new sims when i can
    arabella Ella: Fael maybe Maxine is afk ... you may try someone else if you wish
    Fael Innovia: ok, please face me before accepting :)
    arabella Ella: ok
    arabella Ella: who goes first?
    Fael Innovia: you :)
    arabella Ella: ok
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    arabella Ella: meep meep meep!!!
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    arabella Ella: how sweet of you Fael thanks!
    arabella Ella: nice perfume too :)
    Fael Innovia beams happily.
    Maxine Walden: afraid I have to go. Nice discussion. Sorry Fael, maybe another time
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Maxine!
    Fael Innovia: have fun Maxine :)
    arabella Ella: bye Maxine
    Wester Kiranov: bye maxine
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
    arabella Ella: how sweet :)
    Wester Kiranov: :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: good night everyone
    arabella Ella: nite Yaku
    Fael Innovia: Good night Yaku :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: good night Yakuzza!
    Fael Innovia: do you want a hug Wester?
    Wester Kiranov: good night yaku
    Wester Kiranov: i would like a hug, yes
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Bleu :)
    arabella Ella: Hiya Bleu
    Bleu Oleander: hi, slow rezzing for me today
    Fael Innovia: Hi Bleu :)
    arabella Ella: huggy wuggy time for all of us ... made my day :)
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi bleu
    Fael Innovia: ah, you forgot to turn your avi to face me first :)
    Fael Innovia: want a retake?
    Wester Kiranov: i didn't forget, i was just figuring out how to and then you jumped on me :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :D
    Fael Innovia: ah, saying yes makes them jump happen :)
    Fael Innovia: ok, now it should work :)
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    Wester Kiranov: ahhh...
    Fael Innovia: Sharon? :)
    arabella Ella: nice hug Fael I have one too but without the jump
    Fael Innovia smiles.
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    arabella Ella giggles too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: aww Fael
    Fael Innovia: do you want a hug, Bleu?
    Bleu Oleander: thought you would never ask
    arabella Ella: LOL
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    Bleu Oleander: another?
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    Wester Kiranov: well - now i can go to sleep smiling. it's time to go for me.
    Fael Innovia: Good night Wester :)
    arabella Ella: oh good night Wester
    arabella Ella: Hiya Mick
    SophiaSharon Larnia: lol and bye Wester :)
    Bleu Oleander: now i feel better! :)
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi mickey - sorry i was just leaving
    Fael Innovia: do you want a hug Mick?
    arabella Ella: love your high heels Bleu
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya,,how are you?
    Bleu Oleander: oh thanks Ara
    Fael Innovia: no hug? mick?
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Guys,,see ya wester
    arabella Ella: go on Mick give Fael a hug
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Mick
    Mickorod Renard: I will have a hug
    Fael Innovia: face my avi first :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles
    arabella Ella: Mick seems to have had a few drinks tonight :)
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,ready
    Fael Innovia smiles.
    Mickorod Renard: hey,,wheres my hug?
    Fael Innovia: trying, but you keep running :)
    Mickorod Renard: I am ready now
    Fael Innovia: click 'yes' then :)
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Mickorod Renard: woooooooooooh
    Bleu Oleander: pretty funny!
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    arabella Ella: i think it is lovely
    Mickorod Renard: thankyou
    arabella Ella: as SL can be so real too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    Bleu Oleander: this was fun ..... bye all .... thanks for the hugs Fael!! :)
    Fael Innovia: have fun Bleu! :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Bleu :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye bleu
    arabella Ella: bye Blue
    arabella Ella: Bleu (always make a typo error there!)
    Fael Innovia: the meaning is the same still, no?
    arabella Ella: i guess so
    arabella Ella: different languages English and French?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Stevenaia
    Fael Innovia: meep! Do you want a hug, Steve? :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: always
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Steve
    arabella Ella: Hiya Steve
    Fael Innovia: meep meep! :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello quite the hug
    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    arabella Ella giggles
    Mickorod Renard: nice type of hug
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye everyone :)
    arabella Ella: bye SSL
    SophiaSharon Larnia: see you later
    Fael Innovia: have fun Sharon :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you too :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye sharon
    arabella Ella: so how are you all Steve, Fael, Mick?
    Fael Innovia: meep! I'm good! :)
    Fael Innovia: How are you ara? :)
    arabella Ella: meep meep meep so good to hear that i am fine too :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I just returned from a day in Manhattan :)
    Mickorod Renard: I am ok thanks,,but so dreadfully busy
    stevenaia Michinaga: I am about to be dreadfully busy, should be a good thing
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: reading this morning's log
    arabella Ella: Manhatten sounds lovely
    stevenaia Michinaga: a but warm, we were mostly there for the museum and food
    arabella Ella: lovely
    arabella Ella: did you get to see some good museums?
    arabella Ella: art?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    Mickorod Renard: nice
    arabella Ella: earlier on we were discussing how we describe PaB to friends in RL ... what do you reckon?
    stevenaia Michinaga: most are interested, then they ask...What is Second Life
    Mickorod Renard: I try and not mention sl at all to people in rl
    stevenaia Michinaga: I have met enough of you in RL to help them understand
    arabella Ella: yes people first find it difficult to get their heads around what SL is and what people do here
    Fael Innovia smiles.
    Fael Innovia: yep :)
    Fael Innovia: it sounds a lot like gigantic doll play :)
    Mickorod Renard: most would think i was a wierdo if they knew
    Fael Innovia: if you just look at the technology :)
    Fael Innovia: and well... it is a gigantic doll play but... people tend to underestimate what that is a lot :)
    arabella Ella: yes a lot of ppl seem to think it is a game like WoW
    arabella Ella nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: good that the wiki is accessable from the web, not Sl
    Fael Innovia: the first I heard of SL, I thought it was like irc with 3d plopped on it and figured I don't need it :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: can always send ppl there
    Mickorod Renard: I was thinking of changing my avi to reconstruct descetion again
    Fael Innovia: little did I know :)
    arabella Ella: did you discuss logging during the Guardian meeting or were none of you there today?
    Fael Innovia: I wasn't there.
    stevenaia Michinaga: I was there for part of the time from my iphone in a coffee shop in New York
    stevenaia Michinaga: the conversation was just begining, but the log is up
    Fael Innovia: the log's on wiki already
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/Chat_Logs/2010/06/2010.06.27_08%3a00_-_Guardian_Session%3a_Balancing_on_the_Logs
    Fael Innovia: and answer looks to be yes
    arabella Ella: oh thanks Steve!
    arabella Ella: can you TP Steve when you use your i phone for SL?
    stevenaia Michinaga: not w/o knowing the location, I can log on where I logged off so I planned for my inpending arrival earlier
    arabella Ella: ah great idea
    arabella Ella: and do you use sparkle on i phone?
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: you just show up as a cloud and can't move once you arrive
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    arabella Ella: ah ok ty
    Mickorod Renard: but u can chat
    stevenaia Michinaga: Sparkle
    arabella Ella: but of course you can chat
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, and see the chat and IM
    arabella Ella: oh IM too wow cool
    stevenaia Michinaga: friends list is also available
    Mickorod Renard: I have google phone and i dont think sparkle works with that,,even though its an i phone
    stevenaia Michinaga: only a matter of time
    arabella Ella: yes only a matter of time
    arabella Ella: yesterday ... cant remember where ... i saw new laptops with each side as a monitor so a two monitor laptop
    arabella Ella: oh it was a tech review on BBC web site
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    arabella Ella: toshiba if i remember correctly
    stevenaia Michinaga: dinner approachs, ie, I am cooking tonight... see you all soon
    Fael Innovia: have fun Steve :)
    arabella Ella: bye Steve bon appetit
    Mickorod Renard: bye steve
    arabella Ella: gtg good night Fael!
    arabella Ella: meep
    Fael Innovia: have fun Mick, ara :)
    Fael Innovia: meep! :)
    Mickorod Renard: off home now,,c u soon Fael, Ara



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